[Closed] winterfold what's the deal?

best thing with illegal trails is not to discuss them on public forums and draw further attention to them?

Thankfully not as sensitive as Redlands. I miss some of the trails that have disappeared over the last 10 years.

so they are completely illegal then?

basically, is it an illegal set of trails and what does that mean?

Same as anywhere else really, you have no permission to be on the land. You are trespassing. Its a civil offence. You could be liable for any damage you cause. Unless you built the trail, this is likely to be negligible. This is different to area where there is a byelaw in place (such as Ashdown forest) as this then becomes a criminal offence and you can be fined and/or have your bike confiscated.

I think thats right anyway.

if its illegal this must affect them?

It affects them in the same way it affects you.

Cheers Horatio, so you can't get arrested then. Spacemonkey to be honest i thought winterfold was abstract enough for only those that know... maybe not, but i cant edit now...

To use an analogy...

Redlands - Like riding over the lawn of the old grumpy bugger who lives next door who will call the police for merely looking at his lawn and riding over it is definitely going to piss him off.
Winterfold - Like riding over the lawn of the old grumpy bugger who lives on the other side who sort of but not really tolerates it as long as you don't act like a tool or take a critical mass style ride over his garden. He may occasionally dig up his lawn so you can't ride but it's his lawn so don't moan about it.

Basically, if someone tells you to sod off, do it with no complaint and with all due haste.

such as Ashdown forest

if its illegal this must affect them?

maybe they asked for permission

I think I'm correct in saying aside from Barry's/Golden Birdies, Yogurt Pots/Parklife and Summer Lightening all the trails in the whole SH area are basically illegal or at best unofficial. Some of the land is designated Access Land so you are allowed on it but the trails are unofficial. Obviously this excludes the bridleways.

all the trails in the whole SH area are basically illegal or at best unofficial

Massive difference there though.

@chakaping - in terms of Access Land vs not ?

EDIT: just checked - a lot of it is access land

Some of it is on the Hurtwood, which is private land but the owner allows a right to roam, is that not right.

this is why becoming a friend of the hurtwood is a good thing to do...

http://www.friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/

@TurnerGuy, agreed on both points

I thought Yogurt Pots was a maintained mtb route. (is where hurtwood crew are doing their dig days this and next month iirc)

edit : as above... to slow, blah blah blah... 😀

I think I'm correct in saying aside from Barry's/Golden Birdies, Yogurt Pots/Parklife and Summer Lightening all the trails in the whole SH area are basically illegal or at best unofficial.

You're not. They're largely built on private land (the Hurtwood), totally legally. They are not legal rights of way, ie they don't appear on maps etc. Neither does your garden path, it's not illegal though...

That said, there is some unsanctioned building, trails like Barry Knows Nothing, which are not legitimate.

The Hurtwood owns and controls a part of Winterfold - around the Loggers Car Park over to Alderbrook, where Northern Monkey is (no idea if that's legal or not). The area further north, beyond Evian and to the east of the climb back up is owned by Jim McAllister, trails on there are not sanctioned, or legal.

You've just got to be sensible over there. When we're setting fast Strava runs we usually send a guy ahead to warn walkers etc.

And what exactly does he say?: "can you please mind out, because some idiots will be barrelling down here any minute". Sure that does wonders for our relations with walkers 🙄

Why not just ride at a pace where you can stop if you see walkers?

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@njee: I read that too, put fingers to keyboard then bit my lip and walked away. Don't waste your breath on it.

In terms of access, most of the trails are natural and you have as much right to them as a dog walker almost anywhere on The Hurtwood land and on McAllister's land the dog walker has rights to public footpaths going through, you have equal rights to public brideways/byways, and both have zero rights to the rest of the land. Something that walkers seem to forget when ranting at bike riders when they are walking outside of public rights of way themselves.

The stuff that's been built - generally will stay there on The Hurtwood if it's been well established for years. New stuff if advertised too much and then someone gets hurt then the ranger may be pushed to demolish it. Anything on McAllister's land stands to be demolished when he gets round to it.

@njee - I think we are talking at cross purposes. I said aside from the 3 named trails I believe most if not all of the trails are unofficial/unsanctioned. More and more of them have man made features on them so cannot be described as natural. I cannot believe you are saying all of the other trails are sanctioned ? What is sanctioned on Pitch for example ?

What I don't know is whether the Hurtwood grant of access was so broadly written as to include biking, or more possibly was generally written so doesn't preclude. It was certainly intended to allow walkers to roam freely and enjoy the countryside.

I've posted on here before that I think some of the recent building on Winterfold has pushed the boundaries to a place where I think previously tolerated trails may be "closed"

In response to the OP I think all the trails not on bridleways on Winterfold is unsanctioned and quite a bit is on private land so is illegal.

Anyway I think I'll ride there at the weekend.

JCL are you being serious or just trolling! Oh hang on, you are probably being serious, no doubt you hangout with Howard and Co at Pedal and Spoke aiming to light up strava with KOM's.

Sanctioned and tolerated are different things. There are many that are known about and are left alone though may never have been sanctioned. Some of the popular ones are tweaked by I think the ranger or some of the trail fairies may be asked to fix them up to sort out dangerous spots.

And Hurtwood access right was written in a time way before mountain bikes, nearly 100 years ago I think. It just simply gives a right to roam to the public including to use for exercise purposes. Horse riding is equally allowed.

JCl lives in Vancouver I thought 😆

Hot laps on strava are fun though, Tatoo dave still has a second on me down deathstar ➡

Howard now flogging strava t-shirts !