[Closed] Wiggle buying CRC?

edit: [url= http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/breaking-news-wiggle-set-to-buy-chain-reaction-cycles/ ]STW front page[/url]

http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/breaking-news-wiggle-set-to-buy-chain-reaction-cycles/

that's one way to negotiate a discount on their Collect+ returns bill

Never helps competition when one large company buys it's most powerfull competitor... 🙁

well thats 'interesting'.

No one else was anywhere near as big as those two were they?

Wheres the monopolies and mergers commission to save us from exploitation!

OH! wont someone think of the [s]children[/s] middle aged audi driving wood buring hebtroco wearing IT managers !

Darn, just when I noticed CRC started to offer decent shipping rates for continental Europe.
I'm on "don't buy from" terms with Wiggle, so I guess that's it then.

Wiggle and CRC tend to price match each other so this may not be great news?

I slightly prefer Wiggle. My wife doesn't mind the purchases so much if I give her the Haribo.

maybe LBSs are suddenly back in the game? or will we all just shop in germany?

As long as my vouchers are still valid and they improve their (wiggle) web site i'm not bothered.

Evans price match both.

Don't CRC own Vitus, Ragley, Hotlines and probably a few other brands?

I assume they are getting them thrown into the deal?

scotroutes - Member
Evans price match both

But wiggle's range is comparatively lousy (for mtb certainly, might be ok to good for road)

No one else was anywhere near as big as those two were they?

No but it never stopped Merlin, Ribble, Parkers etc price matching or just being cheaper anyway. So there's still competition.

But wiggle's range is comparatively lousy (for mtb certainly, might be ok to good for road)

Makes me wonder if Wiggle will acknowledge the issues around staffing conditions at CRC now, or pull the blinkers down further...

Just sayin.

Have been using Merlin & ActiveSport a lot more recently, very good service from both.

issues around staffing conditions at CRC now

I thought this was more a case of all large companies [s] online retailers[/s] and not just crc, very much a case of "I'm an over worked number not a valued member of staff and nobody cares"

CRC's brands are little more than a label they stick on catalog parts anyway

I think this is a good thing. It's one less website for me to look at when buying something. It's not like CRC and Wiggle are the only options. I also buy from BikeDiscount, Evans, JE James, Merlin and Wheelies depending on what I need, who has it in stock and what it costs (and of course how quickly I need it). One less option to look at would help.

To be honest Wiggle are good for road bike stuff and crap for mountain bike, whereas Chain Reaction are good for mountain but crap for road. Not sure why. Maybe by combining they can turn into a real world wide force.

The big shame is that somewhere lots of people will be losing their jobs. They won't be keeping two warehouse structures in place for long. If so much of their business is overseas then it will be the Northern Ireland business closing as Wiggles new warehouse is much closer to international airports and therefore cheaper shipping rates.

I used to work for a company owned by Bridgepoint, it was very aggressively managed to lower overheads, lower staff numbers, maximise profit, yadayada

I'd heard Wiggle had been looking at taking over the shop at glentress but this is a bit of a bigger step!

Must admit Wiggle's distribution HQ is pretty impressive http://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-news/2015/09/28/pictured-inside-the-enormous-wiggle-warehouse-in-bilston/

If only it was open to retail customers 🙂

chain wiggle or wiggle reaction? 😯

Merlin are good.

Is it only me who'd have expected it to be [i]CRC buying Wiggle[/i] if anything?

Both have lost a lot of business from me in the last year as I've discovered just how good the Germans are. I don't see this changing that too much.

Didn't expect that.

Can't say either are much on my radar these days when it comes to buying bike bits, whereas previously they've both been my go to sites at one point or another. Will be interesting to see what changes are made.

The latest Nukeproof, Ragley and Vitus stuff definitely seems to be good-quality products and moving forward at a great rate so hopefully they'll keep that up.

jekkyl - Member
chain wiggle

Conga?

[img] [/img]

Well that happened quicker than I expected.

allyharp - Member
Is it only me who'd have expected it to be CRC buying Wiggle if anything?

Probably. CRC, still family owned, would never be able to raise the capital to buy Wiggle, owned by a venture capital firm. Whereas Wiggle's owners probably have that kind of cash spare.

Wiggle staff on FB saying they've been told this isn't true.

Someone at ST need to update their story as Wiggle is owned by Bridgepoint, not Bridgeport.

Is it only me who'd have expected it to be CRC buying Wiggle if anything?

Yes Wiggle are now the bigger player with an experienced group of folk at top clearly looking to further expand.

In December 2011, the company was sold to Bridgepoint Capital for £180m.[6] Bridgepoint specialises in investing in middle market businesses, and Wiggle were able to launch 11 new websites for overseas consumers in 2012.

Bridgepoint also own fishers

ninfan - Member
Wiggle staff on FB saying they've been told this isn't true.

Beyond what's on the Internet (which must be true!!!) I know nothing but, if the brief to staff went anything along the lines of "there is nothing to worry about/your jobs are safe/the rumours you may have heard are just that..." experience tells me the opposite is likely the case.

Those sorts of denials are as much a part of the course as denying your intentions to run for office are a part of the us presidential race.

prezet they're back online again now. I suspect they were simply transferring the hosting of the site to someone under the control of Wiggle rather than CRC, hence the brief downtime.

New logo just been announced

[img] [/img]

Bridgepoint also own fishers

😐 yes they do...

[img] [/img]

FAO Darrenspink - is that a clip from a Coen Brothers movie by any chance ?

Ah, the delightful Bilston. A cultural epicentre of wonder.

Nooooooooo!

I've always bought from CRC and have done since they were a small local bike shop. I admired them for growing the business from that to what it is today. I'd seriously reconsider purchasing from them if it turns out to be true. Certainly won't if they close the facilities they have currently.

Lack of competition won't help pricing I'm sure.

Edit.... Echo in here

Edit.... Echo in here

Must be the cave you've been living in if you think CRC are a paragon of virtue 😆 . See previous posts on crap treatment of staff and other (often cheaper) mega-retailers in Europe.

Nearly a year since I stopped buying from CRC due to years of terrible service.

Wonder if Wiggle taking over would remedy this? Always been on the ball as a company.

Now, let's see if they can buy Px and sort them out 😉

Nearly a year since I stopped buying from CRC due to years of terrible service.

Wonder if Wiggle taking over would remedy this? Always been on the ball as a company.

My experience is pretty much the opposite. CRC are only rivaled by Merlin among the online retailers for customer service IMO.

Their staff are always friendly and helpful when I call. They sound happier than most call centre staff, so I hope they are treated fairly.

Wiggle won't even let me call, which I find a bit arrogant.

I've bought from Europe too, but CRC have always had brilliant service any time I dealt with them.

As for the posts about staff treatment, I've read them all but as I'm only hearing one side of the argument I tend to take it with a pinch of salt. I know a lot of people who work for them and do genuinely love their work. I'm sure they aren't perfect, I'm yet to work for anyone who is.
I've met the Watson family a few times and you'll never meet nicer more humble people.

I think the big question is will we get Haribo with a CRC order now or lose it from Wiggle?

Got to agree with cha****ng, not helped by Wiggle using the shower of shit that is DX. Their customer service has been awful when I've needed it, let me down really badly and you can't contact them on your terms that easily, they've become supplier of last resort.

CRC stock is getting a bit cack, with cheap stuff being on weird sizes but when I've bought from them they've been reliable. Both are put to shame by the Germans, Ribble and merlin though.

Had poor service form Wiggle and i normally avoid, CRC have gone off the boil and I more or less use Evans most of the time as they price match and deliver to store!

Rich

If I ain't in a rush for gear i've been using Bike Inn. Always happy with service and price. Ive used CRC alot over the years but as previous have said its a bit worrying for the consumer when two big suppliers merge.

I think I'd be more excited if Wiggle had bought Haribo

My experience is pretty much the opposite. CRC are only rivaled by Merlin among the online retailers for customer service IMO.

Their staff are always friendly and helpful when I call. They sound happier than most call centre staff, so I hope they are treated fairly.

Wiggle won't even let me call, which I find a bit arrogant.

Same here too. I can't fault CRC and have always had good service, especially with warranty stuff. Had a few issues with Wiggke sending me the wrong stuff and got cheesed off not being able to talk to anyone.

Merlin are very good and I'm finding that I'm using them more and more now.

will crc start price drop, and stop charging different prices for different sizes and colours of the same product?

will crc start price drop, and stop charging different prices for different sizes and colours of the same product?

If I'm not mistaken (and I often am) price drop is a creeping reduction on kit which didn't sell already, which is exactly what charging 25% of the rrp for the xxs white downhill shorts and 95% for the black medium ones is.

I think Wiggle are great, ordered a SRAM chain & a couple of quick links, the order was worth about 20 quid.
Wasn't in when they the postie tried to drop it off, had to pick it up from the sorting office on the way to work the next day. Handed the card over and the postie came back with a bloody big box for a chain I thought, tossed it on the back seat of the car. Didn't open it up until I got home from work, what a surprise the box contained a giro savant lid & 2 expensive bottles of muck off chain lube 80 quids worth.
Thanks Wiggle 😆

christhetall - Member
FAO Darrenspink - is that a clip from a Coen Brothers movie by any chance ?

Nope, meaning of life

Both are put to shame by the Germans, Ribble and merlin though.

Ribble? They are the absolute worst for stock. They never have any disc brakes, for instance

In December 2011, the company was sold to Bridgepoint Capital for £180m.[6] Bridgepoint specialises in investing in middle market businesses, and Wiggle were able to launch 11 new websites for overseas consumers in 2012.
Bridgepoint also own fishers

We've just been sold by Bridgepoint, I wondered what they were going to do with all that wedge!

Bridgepoint had a very good record of supporting investment and acquisition with us, so from that perspective this is no surprise.

I've never had bad service from Wiggle and they are my go to shop. They even managed to sell me a pair of swimming goggles which don't leak!

Matt

Ribble? They are the absolute worst for stock. They never have any disc brakes, for instance

Disc brakes are an occasional treat at Ribble. I think most MTB gear is actually.

You should judge them on availability of roadie stuff TBF.

Refreshingly I bought can item from my LBS on Monday,walked in, paid, even got a discount off full retail & didn't pay postage or wait X amount of days for it to arrive & then pick it up from the delivery office because it was too big for the letter box either.
If you're worried about working conditions for staff or giving money to conglomerates, try your local bike shop, they are struggling

I'm sure you didn't mean that to sound so condescending.

I used to shop in CRC when it was a little shop in 1991, I've used it for bits and bobs ever since and have never had a problem, Recently returned some brake pads that were sub standard, i didn't even have to return the product and all corespondance was done very politely via email, The only other thing i returned was a pair of ENDURA Singletrack shorts that the stitching disintegrated on about 5 or 6 years ago.

I cant speak for the way they treat there staff, i used to work for HMF, that was shit,
90% of the stuff i have bought on line is from CRC, i recently bought a Thomson stem from Merlin as the Length and angle i wanted was out of stock at CRC, It took ages to arrive,

I buy some bits from CTBM and tyres from Next Day Tyres, Have used Ze Germans and often take advantage of the sales @ STIF, I think what shopping at CRC has taught me to buy things when discounted.

I think they have done well, from a small shop to a market leading company sponsoring race teams and events.

Rocketdog, when you say refreshingly is that because usually you go in hunt around the shop, can't find it, have to ask only to be told they haven't got it but can order it in for a weeks time and for that you can pay 20% more. Either that or have to persuade them you dont actually want either te cheao and nasty or hugely expensive version that they do actually hold instock. Cos that's my general experience of lbs.

That's not my experience of the LBS, happy to say

The bike industry is going through change - This is a big part of it as direct sale and large online stores grow and take hold of the industry.

The LBS in its traditional form is doomed, only 'boutique' shops selling high end parts / builds and providing quality service will survive.

Is one of the biggest problems online discounts? I dont think so, I think its over-saturation and the lack of any form of standards within the industry.

With so many brands how can the LBS hope to stock even a small selection - If they do we then get onto the next problem - 'Standards'

With so many standards - Wheel sizes, chainring fitements, bottom bracket and headset standards, 9spd, 10spd, 11spd, BOOST wheels and drivetrain, plus sizes - You get the idea!

How can an LBS possibly hope to service the average high-end (£1000+) customer efficiently with this amount of diversity - Impossible:

"Do you stock plus 650+ Tyres?, Do have a 28T BOOST offset ring for my RF Cinch crank?, Tapered Headset but with an odd bearing size?

I wouldnt want to own a traditional LBS anymore - I see shops like the Trailhead etc surviving, small, specific, high end with a good rep but your average LBS needs to look at becoming a service centre and hope at least a distributor wil carry all of the spares they need for the hundreds of pointless variations constructed within this 'Industry'

This relates back to CRC / Wiggle as they are going to become the few places you can get all of the various pointless fitments you require for your new 'better than the last one cause its 5mm wider, 3mm longer and a bit more plastic' bike.

Crankrider I depressingly agree with much of what you say. Some of it is about addiction, I wonder how many people are constantly 'upgrading' their bikes and hardly riding the last incarnation. I know I've been guilty of this. Don't think the LBS is necessarily doomed though. We've seen two open in our town recently and doing well. Still think the majority of causal cyclists are likely to want to buy 'standard' bikes in person.

If this merger means no more shit haribo then at least one good thing will have come out of it.

From the BikeBiz article;
[i]Almost 40 percent of CRC’s sales come from outside the EU, as dealers in Australia and America know only too well. In 2014, the company – which employs more than 600 people – reported profits of £3.77m from sales of £153.4m.[/i]

With such small profit margins it's no suprise they operate with poor workplace standards. No doubt the resulting valuation of the company will have made it quite attractive to such a well financed operation like Bridgepoint.

CRC [i]is[/i] my LBS. I know several who work for CRC and hope they keep their jobs for their sake and also for mine (staff discount on 'own brand' stuff is very good and i'm trying to save for a new Nukeproof bike).

reported profits of £3.77m from sales of £153.4m.

With such small profit margins it's no suprise they operate with poor workplace standards.

There's got to be more to those figures than that, investing in new premises or something?

There's got to be more to those figures than that, investing in new premises or something?

Nope, meaning of life

Ah, I was thinking of the Hudsucker Proxy, but in that film someone jumps out a boardroom window, rather than in through it.

But I get your point - people aren't buying enough helmets

Wiggle will be all set to click the 'buy' button but will realise that the price they thought they were paying is only for the XXXXXXXXL and not the normal human sizes.

AM I RIGHT GUYS? EH?

Definitely, there is no way its only making less than 3% profit off sales of over £150 million.

Or 'doing a starbucks' and taking the profit elsewhere?

Owners taking money out of the company in the run-up to the sale?
Or 'doing a starbucks' and taking the profit elsewhere?

Having smaller reported profits is not likely to boost the price for a sale, so would likely be counterproductive. Most owners try to talk up the profits and predicted growth.

Matt

apparently just been announced

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35551917

Having smaller reported profits is not likely to boost the price for a sale, so would likely be counterproductive. Most owners try to talk up the profits and predicted growth.

Matt

Maybe, but you can see that from the EBITA figures. The owners writing themselves big paychecks/dividends wouldn't change that. OTOH I've no real idea if withdrawing the money then selling the company would really net you any more than selling the company with a healthy bank balance anyway if you're the one and only shareholder.

Has the merger sale started yet?

Wig Reaction? Chiggle?

The bike industry is going through change - This is a big part of it as direct sale and large online stores grow and take hold of the industry.

The LBS in its traditional form is doomed, only 'boutique' shops selling high end parts / builds and providing quality service will survive.

Is one of the biggest problems online discounts? I dont think so, I think its over-saturation and the lack of any form of standards within the industry.

With so many brands how can the LBS hope to stock even a small selection - If they do we then get onto the next problem - 'Standards'

With so many standards - Wheel sizes, chainring fitements, bottom bracket and headset standards, 9spd, 10spd, 11spd, BOOST wheels and drivetrain, plus sizes - You get the idea!

How can an LBS possibly hope to service the average high-end (£1000+) customer efficiently with this amount of diversity - Impossible:

"Do you stock plus 650+ Tyres?, Do have a 28T BOOST offset ring for my RF Cinch crank?, Tapered Headset but with an odd bearing size?

I wouldnt want to own a traditional LBS anymore - I see shops like the Trailhead etc surviving, small, specific, high end with a good rep but your average LBS needs to look at becoming a service centre and hope at least a distributor wil carry all of the spares they need for the hundreds of pointless variations constructed within this 'Industry'

This relates back to CRC / Wiggle as they are going to become the few places you can get all of the various pointless fitments you require for your new 'better than the last one cause its 5mm wider, 3mm longer and a bit more plastic' bike.

Totally agree - I know a lot of people think that it is those who shop on line killing the LBS, but the industry itself is doing it with the huge amount of standards / variables. Chainrings are a prime example of a relatively inepxensive part - how do you cater for a range of customers with so many standards (4 bolt with various BCD's, direct mount, 5 bolt etc) and ring sizes.

Flooding the market with OE stuff isn't helping either.

backinireland - Member

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35551917

from the article "like us they have a deap seated love of [s]cycling[/s] persuading bored desk-bound men to part with their money on components they don't need just to relieve the tedium of office work"

FIFT

Profit does seem light but possibly not unrealistic given how their business works. Boohoo for example of an online retailer made £12m on 140 of sales. Was there perhaps a one off exceptional item as a result of the floods although I can't remember when that was and I would have thought that would have been covered by insurance albeit possibly coming in the next financial year. All guesswork without seeing the detail anyway.

Hopefully volume and scale will provide better pricing. Great for us as consumers, not so good for bike shops.

mindmap3 - Member
Totally agree - I know a lot of people think that it is those who shop on line killing the LBS, but the industry itself is doing it with the huge amount of standards / variables.

Not to mention distributors who are crap at distributing. Yes a shop might not have the part there and then, but they should be able to order it there and then and get it delivered the next day. But more often than not any time ive tried to order anything specific through an LBS they say it will take a few days to a week, as they don't order every day or have to build orders to cover postage or for the local agent to come in. Distributors need to be as efficient as online shops if they want to keep their customers (the shops) in business! They should be offering free postage to the shops or a fixed rate over a number of items, and sending things out quickly.

The move is dependent on clearance by the Competition and Markets Authority.

Wonder how much of a hurdle this will prove to be.

In cycling terms it's a bit like Amazon and eBay merging.