[Closed] Wiggins on Armstrong

Maybe some idea of what he has said would help?

what did he say

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thread topic has no spoilers

I believe him too. There's no way he ever got to the moon.

Did he say the whole thing was faked and actually filmed in a Hollywood sound stage?

EDIT - Damn you Martinhutch, Damn you to hell!!! ELEVEN SECONDS!!!

armstrong fakes moon landing

It helps to read the entire bit of the article, it was well put and in context and also made sense

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/46051098

New book out, mentions Armstrong to generate publicity.. best to ignore him..

I disagree with Brad. Mack the knife was his best single.

EDIT – Damn you Martinhutch, Damn you to hell!!! ELEVEN SECONDS!!!

It's a conspiracy. I can read your thoughts.

I read an article that paraphrased some paraphrasing of some comments about comments somebody else made. Couldn't really work out what Wiggins said, other than acknowledging that Lance was a top cyclist in some peoples eyes at one point...

Wiggins has a book coming out yes?

Beaten to it.

I agree with Brad,that Dodgeball scene was rubbish.

 New book out, mentions Armstrong to generate publicity.. best to ignore him..

Which of the eleventeen excuses for the envelope does he use?

I think, fundamentally it's the way a lot of people seem to want to erase Armstrong from cycling history and any mention of his name is viewed similarly to blasphemy. He was there and he was part of the story, I watched enthralled, I read his books, he turned out to be kidding himself to a degree and he was a flawed human being (as we all are), but to try and erase him from history?

he turned out to be kidding himself to a degree

This seems to be somewhat of an understatement. The phrase 'you're only cheating yourself' doesn't really apply here. 🙂

Wiggins has a book coming out yes?

is it called i wasnt the first

Absolutely nothing wrong with what Brad is said to have said in the book.  He essentially states that Lance had an influence on cycling and him personally at the time he was was competing, which, well, he would have, wouldn't he?  He also states that (at the time) that influence was positive, which again, Lance, coming back from cancer, moving from classics to GC and winning, A LOT would have, wouldn't he?

David Millar, can shove his outrage up his ass.

This seems to be somewhat of an understatement. The phrase ‘you’re only cheating yourself’ doesn’t really apply here.

Definitely but so many others have and possibly continue to do the same and have (and are) treated differently (I acknowledge he had a much higher profile than most but when it comes to drugs cheats, should that make any difference?).There is so much more to his story that at the time influenced so many and to declare that it is now 'all' invalid and should be erased entirely?

Yes I heard a few minutes of him last night on the Radio 2 drive time show chatting to Simon May. He said that as a 13 yr old kid living in Kilburn, lance's worlds win as a 21 year old was very very inspiring - and I can see that it undoubtedly would have been, regardless of what came out 20 years down the line...

I also heard Wiggo on R2,as he said Armstrong was a massive influence on his life as a cyclist & at the time no one knew he was a cheat.

Now with hindsight & all that's come out,he's tainted in every sense,but before it all unraveled he was the champion..

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/floyd-landis-redemption-and-the-pursuit-of-closure/

Unrelated, but a nice read on Landis.. glad he's doing well rather than going down the Ullrich / Pantani / Ricco route..

I also heard Wiggo on R2,as he said Armstrong was a massive influence on his life as a cyclist & at the time no one knew he was a cheat.

I really can't believe that anyone who read anything "written" by lala or listened to any of his interviews or looked at any of his actions could have had any opinion other than that he was a nasty vindictive lying cheat. The reason why lala is still viewed differently is not because he cheated like many others but because he destroyed people's careers, he vindictively pursued those who'd slighted him, and sued people (whilst perjuring himself).

I read the article, it’s insightful and honest on Brads part I think. Maybe playing to a bit of publicity but you can’t go writing books without mentioning Lance can you, certainly not when he did inspire a good few folks to either get off the sofa or go shopping for a couple of wheels and a triangle.

I’m still a fan of Lance, however this does piss me off about him..

is still viewed differently is not because he cheated like many others but because he destroyed people’s careers, he vindictively pursued those who’d slighted him, and sued people (whilst perjuring himself).

Indeed, he was vicious and relentless at breaking riders and thier families.. for that I can not forgive him.

But for someone so vilified by many, he’s still enjoying life and riding bikes and trail running and is so immensely proud of his kids.

As long as he doesn’t ride in a UCI sanctioned race I’m willing to watch his podcasts and follow his Leadville etc. And running adventures... I just wish I was as fit as he his and had the strength of will to ignore the detractors and haters.

Just take lots of drugs, and you'll be as fit as Armstrong😀

I wish he had the strength of will to completely admit to ALL his wrongs, and actually apologize properly.

I wish he had the strength of will to completely admit to ALL his wrongs, and actually apologize properly.

I don’t think he ever will.

And he rides Santa Cruz bikes too.. 🕺

Lance was a dirty bullying cheating “unt !! But despite that he did undeniably motivate a generation and made lots of companies shit loads of cash.

He was an amazing cyclist and bike racer; hindsight tells us he achieved a lot of that through foul means but nonetheless he was amazing to watch in his day. And I agree with Wiggins, watching him at the time made me want to rides bikes up hills in the same way as he did.

I don't know if he can ever get redemption for being as unpleasant as he turned out to be - I think that ship sailed a long time ago and no number of apologies would make up for what he did to those that opposed him.

I really can’t believe that anyone who read anything “written” by lala or listened to any of his interviews or looked at any of his actions could have had any opinion other than that he was a nasty vindictive lying cheat.

Really? With the benefit of hindsight, yes, but at the time he was the Messiah and we all loved him and bought yellow wristbands. Without Armstrong, would British Cycling and Team Sky exist, or would pro cycling be some weird continental sport that a few plucky Brits occasionally made it into the team ranks as almost-ran domestiques? Not exactly a sport that you'd plough millions into sponsoring a team from outside the traditional cycling countries.

This is well worth going to see if they're performing anywhere locally.

He was a superb writer.

I think there are large parallels between Wiggins and Armstrong.

The "Wiggo Effect" following his win of the TdF was huge in this country, cycling stepped out from being a marginal sport where we only did well at the Olympics to one that the man in the street actually knew the name of Brad Wiggins and there was definitely and upsurge in cyclng, events like Tour of Yorkshire and Tour of Britain are always really well attended etc.

I think what he was saying was that for him and many, many others, especially in the US, there was a definite Armstrong effect too, whatever you now think of the man, this was a man who took cycling there from a marginal sport, to the point where he had the president and senators on speed-dial as friends.

Whatever their history, you look at certain people like Pantani and their ilk and they are still placed on pedastals in cycling history despite all their faults as they changed the sport.

i do wonder if its others that want lance to redeem himself

lance i dont think gives a shit either way

Really? With the benefit of hindsight, yes, but at the time he was the Messiah and we all loved him and bought yellow wristbands.

Hmmm, speak for yourself. I remember him winning the WC in 93, being this ballsy brash rider, then him getting cancer and it was all a huge shock. Then he returned and of all the cyclist we knew we were the only ones rooting for him. Then I read his book and I thought what a massive shit you are, the way he described how he treated people, then I listened when he made meaningless responses to very specific questions about drug use and how he never ever said anything that wasn't about himself and how he spoke about other riders.

The reason why lala is still viewed differently is not because he cheated like many others but because he destroyed people’s careers, he vindictively pursued those who’d slighted him, and sued people (whilst perjuring himself).

Come on though - he was almost in a position where he had no choice. Late 90's the Tour was in total crisis, you had Riis (1996), Ullrich (1997), Pantani (the year of the Festina Affair when half the teams were expelled or quit in protest) and the Tour had a massive problem. Then along comes a saviour - charismatic, English-speaking, heartwarming back story of recovering from cancer.

the media fall in love with it and the Tour is saved and suddenly it has exposure all across the USA (a market it had tried for years to break into with almost zero success, even when Lemond was winning).

The media largely created him - they put him on this pedestal, they made him the hero, and once you're there you end up living the lie in ever more of a public gaze. The Tour, the UCI and the public all NEEDED Lance to be the hero, the saviour of the Tour dragging it out from the days of mass drug busts, the entire peloton on EPO.

To be fair though, Lance could have turned the whole thing round - he had the personality and forcefulness to have blown the lid on the entire thing, driven the peloton to compete clean - what Wiggins says is true in the extent that Lance was respected by the whole peloton, he WAS The Boss. Maybe not liked but certainly the patron of the bunch. Problem was though that he went the other way and, in competing dirty himself, he essentially created another era of mass doping - just slightly better hidden than before.

And admit it - you all bought the books, watched the Tours, read the magazines. You (plural - I include myself in this) were all part of the lie, all part of the big Armstrong story.

The media are then stuck between a rock and a hard place - lots of people suspected he was dirty as sin but had no actual smoking gun. Plus the fact that LA could and would refuse interviews (which in turn cost magazines and websites readership), sue (which cost magazines and websites a lot of hard cash) and he would win those cases therefore he was right, he spoke the truth. According to the law, he was right.

The lie rolled round - EVERYONE was part of it whether knowingly (soigneurs, team-mates, DS, doctors), unknowingly (many of the readers, the new breed of cyclists who were inspired by this story) or the ones caught in the middle - the ones who kind of suspected but couldn't say for certain like some of the journalists and some of the "established fans of the sport" (for want of a better phrase) and (very probably) many of the sponsors.

eg, Trek were never going to give him up, even if they did know for certain - LA was singlehandedly responsible for a significant percentage of their sales!

So yeah, what Wiggins says is right, the guy was certianly iconic, he was an icon of the sport and try as you might, you can't write him out of the history of it.

I wonder if now Johan Bruyneel has officially been given a lifetime coaching ban whether he will now tell the world what he knows and what really went on with the aleged UCI backhands

The Times said the inclusion of Armstrong has "astonished the world of cycling"

Perhaps a little strong there. Either that or the world of cycling forgot to let me know.

Not to bring up old arguments here but... I'm not a Wiggins fan, but do wonder occasionally if he's been hard done by in the court of public appeal. Even before the brown envelope stuff (and Froome's TUEs), people really didn't like him, as if he'd done something bad.

Look at Armstrong - he was an utter bellend even before the doping stuff came out, but people still idolised him. But Wiggins? Not a chance

lance i dont think gives a shit either way

+1

He still refers to himself as "7 time tour de france winner", and begrudgingly I respect him for that. He played the game and won.

To be fair, there were quite a few people who saw through Armstrong at the time, myself included.  All of the evidence and allegations were there, just his army of fanboys/girls shouted down anyone who criticised him.  It was every bit as obvious as that the Wiggins story wasn't all that it seemed (4 minute rider turned into Grand tour winner), but most people chose to ignore the evidence, instead relying on the PR/BS churned out by the team.

I was going to write something but daffy and crazy legs have basically said it all for me.

I heard Armstrong was drugged to high levels to get high to land on the moon 😝

To be fair, there were quite a few people who saw through Armstrong at the time, myself included.  All of the evidence and allegations were there, just his army of fanboys/girls shouted down anyone who criticised him.  It was every bit as obvious as that the Wiggins story wasn’t all that it seemed (4 minute rider turned into Grand tour winner), but most people chose to ignore the evidence, instead relying on the PR/BS churned out by the team.

Errrr, except for liberal usage of TUE's Wiggins hasn't been caught "cheating".

I wonder if now Johan Bruyneel has officially been given a lifetime coaching ban

Well...

Johan Bruyneel, a former team manager to Lance Armstrong, has had his 10-year ban from cycling increased to a lifetime ban following an investigation by the World Anti-Doping Agency

So, yeah.. kinda..

Storm in a teacup. Armstrong is an icon, and he likely was a hero to many growing up. You can't erase him from history, you can't say he didn't matter as he does. You could argue Team Sky would never have existed without him as he made cycling matter to the English speaking world. Yes, he's a now banned drugs cheat, but then so were many others.

I think a large part of the media assume that if you mention Lance you support him, they want his name erased from history. But the fact is that the vast majority of people with even a vague interest in cycling in the late 90's/early 00's read his books, cheered him on and bought his yellow bands.

Plus, Wiggo isn't stupid. If you want your new cycling book talked about by the non-cycling media then mention Lance and the bites will come.

Acknowledging that you have, or had, any admiration for Lance in any capacity is equivalent to riding without a helmet.

Acknowledging that you have, or had, any admiration for Lance in any capacity is equivalent to riding without a helmet.

????

Yes, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do, but that won't stop people tearing into you for it.

I'm not a big Armstrong fan, and I don't think he's a very nice guy, but I can admire some of the stuff he's done. Cheating or not, coming back from cancer and winning 7 Tours is somewhat impressive.

David Millar, can shove his outrage up his ass.

That's unfair. He would have to take his head out of there first to make some room.

Errrr, except for liberal usage of TUE’s Wiggins hasn’t been caught “cheating”.

You have to be pretty naive to believe he was clean.  One minute he absolutely gets his ass handed to him in the grand tours, then suddenly he can keep pace with Contador, Armstrong, Schlecks etc in the high mountains. The lies over not using any needles, the lies over the Jiffy bag, then conveniently using TUEs just before big GC races despite not displaying any symptoms severe enough to warrant them.  He's the same as all the rest.

You have to be pretty naive to believe he was clean.

No, just taking on board available evidence. None of which goes anywhere close to proving Wiggins illegally took PED's.

Of course feel free to post up your new evidence, or just recycle the same old same old.

No, just taking on board available evidence. None of which goes anywhere close to proving Wiggins illegally took PED’s.

Of course feel free to post up your new evidence, or just recycle the same old same old.

You're right. I'm sorry I don't believe in miracles.

So why have they not awarded Lances wins to other riders in favour of leaving the history books empty ........?

Lets be honest it would be very nieve to think any tour within the last 40 years has been won clean , plus id imagine it would be very hard to find such dominant champion in any sport that havnt steped on a few toes and ended a career or two on the way ie Rossi , Schumacher .......

Lance singlehandedly made the TdF a must watch event , turned cycling into the new golf and must of made a lot of companies a huge amount of money . Maybe not such a nice guy at times but a villain i think not

Bradley Wiggins on The One Show now.

One doper praising another?

Personally I don't have time for either. Lance was a sociopath. It's not the doping that I detested so much as Lance being a bully and getting off on conning everyone.

Maybe not such a nice guy at times but a villain i think not

Lance would destroy and trash people who got on the wrong side of him. There is nothing redeemable about him in my eyes. It's an unprecedented duplicity.

Armstrong was the best cheat out of a bunch of cheats. Acknowledge him for that. Cycling is full of a...h...s.

What pains me is that I used to love cycling and Armstrong forever ruined it for me as a spectator sport.

It was ruined way before Armstrong.

(4 minute rider turned into Grand tour winner),

Rebecca Romero?

Primoz Roglic?

Geraint Thomas?

Being good at one sport doesn't stop you being good at another

I don't think anyone is suggesting writing Armstrong out of history. I think his part in the history of cycling should never be forgotten, and people should be regularly reminded of the extent of the corruption he was involved in.

He was clearly exceptionally gifted both physically and mentally, but he also cheated, and it wasn't a moment of temptation; it was a sustained and ruthlessly organised exercise. If you don't play the game within the boundaries of the rules, you invalidate your achievements.

I don't think LA is looking for forgiveness from anyone, so I don't think we should be too worried about "respecting" his legacy. It sounds like Wiggins' admiration for the strengths that made Armstrong such a successful competitor outweigh his concerns about the means that were used. That's quite revealing.