[Closed] Wife vs White Van Man

Sounds a awful. Definitely stick with the Police and get them to follow up on this. Having witnesses and a reg number are definitely good assets to have.

probably his regular commute route, i know what i would be doing today

We only have one side of the story here, don't get the pitchforks out just yet folks.

Report it-report-it-report.

Then keep on at the Police til something is done. Tell them you want his details for an insurance and damages claim etc. Don't let them drop this, you have witnesses so push for a charge.

I have an appointment with the Police this afternoon to give my statement about an agressive driver, although not as serious as your wife's event.

Hope she's better this morning - and you are calmer 🙂

EDIT: Gary, exactly what tale would make the above behaviour acceptable FFS? If 3 different witnesses are happy to make a statement to the truth of the issue then i think we can say there is a case to answer.

Sorry to hear your good lady went through that mate. Must be bloody frustrating. Only thing I'd say is that if your good ladies way of dealing with this is to put a brave face on & forget it, then I would allow her that & be careful not to keep bringing it up & making her re-live it. Do hope she's ok, & the Police actually do something.

Not been on here for years so be kind.
Reading your post this is why I’ve signed in again.
Last year I more or less had the same incident. But this white van man parked up got out of his van and starting shouting like a fish wife. The language was unliveable, he threatened to knock my head off. While he was shouting and carrying on I was writing down the number plate, make of van, colour and a description of him , name of street.
Then I rang the police, 3 hours later they came to my home took a statement. But in those 3 hours they had tracked him down, got his name where he worked as they rang his place of work hehehe.
Anyway outcome went to court he got bond over to keep the peace for 6mths, fined, loss of job with that company.
I’d say result.

Road rage attack...

call the police today and firmly but politely ask to speak to the officer who has been allocated to the case. Find out what they are going to do...

Keep all the stuff you have. witness numbers, things like that

hope it turns out well

+1000 Muddydwarf

Don't let him get away with it.

Oh and FWIW I understand the OPs state if mind and why you needed to vent. I think I'd be the same. Hope you got some sleep in the end..?
Your missus is a legend BTW. Well done that girl!!!!

Which junction was it OP?

[b]Very[/b] similar to my incident last year. I was rammed into the side of a bus. Both myself, the bus and the car driver were stationary at the time. He turned the car into me and drove forward, pinning me and the bike against the bus but in essence, the same situation as your wife.
Now, time to calm yourself right down and let the smug glow of justice descend (fingers crossed).
The driver of the car got £750 fine, 12 month driving ban and 40 hours community service.
I got the day off work and a new road riding mate. He's the traffic policeman who attended the scene.
It wrote off my front wheel, frame and handlebar and I'm still arguing with Direct Line about it but I can live with that.

Go back to were it happend and see if there are any cctv camera's, Edinburgh is getting worse and worse these days, the attitude of a lot of people is disgusting.

Which junction was it OP?

Foot of the Walk I believe.

(not the OP, but I know him: [i]*waves at Binky*[/i]).

FWIW I have learnt that when this type of thing happens (and it does too much) it is best to stay behind the vehicle, not to engage in any way and let them drive angrily off in to the distance. They are an idiot with a potentially lethal machine, don't get in the way.

However, it has happened so follow it up and keep chasing it up with the police. IMO people like that should be banned from driving. Even assuming your wife cut him up that kind of reaction is unnacceptable. Given it sounds like he is just a bit clueless it makes it even worse.

Google cycling lawyer as he has a blog where there might be some advice. Road Peace is a charity that might have some info as might the BC or CTC organisations?

I had someone deliberately cut me up and brake check me at the end of last year. Reported to the police but very little happened. Still have the registration memorised. Sticks in my mind, like the guys details who knocked me off.

binkoth - just keep plugging away with the police - try and get the name of the officer that it's been assigned to (and if not, why not).

fact you have independent witnesses is very good - if you have contact details for them then perhaps try and persuade them to also contact the assigned officer to get some momentum going.

Waiting at the lights tonight with a baseball bat may feel attractive but it probably won't help in the long term.

Suggest you DO NOT independently contact the witnesses, let the police do this. This could (should) end up in court and their "independence" and credibility as witnesses could be seriously compromised.

As edlong suggests, your wife needs to keep away from any witnesses.
I was advised that if anybody contacted me in person, I was to record the contact as best I could and reply with a 'thank you for your consideration and for bearing witneses etc' but nothing prejudicial. Only one lady did get in touch out of four witnesses and CCTV from the bus. I sent everbody flowers after the court case. Execept for the copper. He gets sworn at on every climb as he goes shooting off 🙂
Your wife behaved much better than I did. I got a Police Caution for chinning the driver.

Foot of the walk - it might well be on camera there is a camera ther that the default position is watching the junction but is sometimes turned to watch the nice chaps sitting around at the top of the kirk gate.

She needs to contact the witnesses and get them to write down statements and pursue the cops to get something done. Fair chance they will do.

When I had a similar (but not as bad) issue I went into St Leonards and asked them to check for CCTV coverage which they did - the camera was not pointing my way so missed the incident. this might be worth doing - wit the time and place they can check it easily and quickly. try to do it during the day

She needs to contact the witnesses

Sorry TJ but I agree with edlong that contacting the witnesses directly at this point might be a bad idea. Let the police contact them.

If the police decide not to press charges then you might be able to raise a civil case and/or chase it through insurers.

Definitely keep on at the police to do something. You have everything you need, van reg, witnesses etc. Her bike's been damaged and at the vey least she wants reimbursing for the cost of putting it right. I'm no legal expert but the way I see it there's 2 issues here 1) road rage, 2) leaving the scene of an incident.

Nightmare, hope you've managed to calm down and your Mrs is still OK and not having delayed shock or some such.

contacting the witnesses directly at this point might be a bad idea.

Thanks for all the support and advice everyone. I really appreciate it. I wasn't really sure what to expect from the STW collective but only one speculative post about how it could somehow have been my wife's fault is pretty good going IMHO 🙂

As Graham said, it was the Foot of Walk junction approached along Great Junction St, heading east.

I will try and get in touch with the police later today, if they haven't contacted my wife first and keep you informed with how it going.

Time to do some work unfortunately.

Well, it strikes me that up until your good lady went around the front of his van to have words, the driver hadn't really done anything illegal. Intimidating maybe, impatient in wanting to get by before the lights maybe.
She should have let it be at that rather than making a scene.

Having said that and given what then did happen, the driver is totally out of order. She is right to report it to the police and you should find out the officer dealing with the incident and pursue it. Although the police would be unlikely to pursue what happened up until she approached the driver they should definitely pursue the assault that subsequently happened.

Definitely pursue it.
I got run off the road by a truck a few years ago in very similar circumstances - very aggressive overtake to a red set of lights, he went mental when I overtook him again so once the lights changed he drove after me and ran me off the road, jumped out and threatened all sorts.

Police took it very seriously so I'd be having a little chat with the senior inspector at that station and asking why a clear case of assault has been "brushed off" like that. Remind the Police that they're their to assist the victim of a crime, not make judgements.

She should have let it be at that rather than making a scene.

Read the OP. The van driver was the one that wound down his window to [s]have a word[/s] hurl abuse, so I'm not sure how you can accuse the OP's missus of "making a scene". 🙄

Well, it strikes me that up until your good lady went around the front of his van to have words, the driver hadn't really done anything illegal

Cutting her up whilst overtaking? Careless driving at the least I should have thought - the fact he'd never have been prosecuted for it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong, simply that the system is broken.

The van driver was the one that wound down his window to have a word hurl abuse, so I'm not sure how you can accuse the OP's missus of "making a scene".

After she had gesticulated at his nearside window and she then moved around the front of his van when he wound down the offside window.

Cutting her up whilst overtaking?

We have this information second hand. A couple of metres off your back wheel can [i]feel[/i] like a couple of inches, one person's [i]cutting up[/i] is another persons [i]'plenty of room'[/i]

For what it's worth, Im entirely on the OP's wife's side here but we sometimes have to be realistic about how people who are independant (ie not regular cycle commuters / bike enthusiasts) eg the police view such incidents. But, even if they may be dismissive about the events that led up to the assault, they definitely shouldn't be dismissive about the assault.

We have this information second hand

We have all the information second hand 🙄

We have all the information second hand

Except the van driver's... 😈

After she had gesticulated at his nearside window and she then moved around the front of his van when he wound down the offside window.

She shrugged at him.

If you think shrugging is "making a scene" then you win the prize for the most stiff-upper-lip British person I know 😀

While I see some sense in avoiding fights with better armed opponents, I object to this idea that the best way to deal with bullies is to let them do whatever they like and try to keep out their way and ignore it.

Again it seems a terribly apologetic British approach: [i]"Hello? Frightfully sorry old chap, but I've rather got my lower intestines caught on your front axle. Dear me, I am such a clumsy aren't I? Would you mind awfully being a good sport and slowing down for just a moment while I retrieve them? Awfully sorry for the bother."[/i]

"A couple of metres off your back wheel can feel like a couple of inches,"

Still to close.

Thinking he might actually want to talk about what just happened, she walks her bike round the front of the van to his side to try and have a civilized conversation with him. She starts with something along the lines of 'Why so aggressive? I am just trying to get home safely the same as you.' His profanity-full tirade steps up a notch. At this point, she puts the bike down, takes out her phone and tries to take a picture of his license plate - thinking that she is going to report him for being a dangerous, over-aggressive mentalist

Bit more than 'shrugging' 😯

Speshpaul - Member
"A couple of metres off your back wheel can feel like a couple of inches,"

Still to close.

Maybe on the open road but not really when in urban traffic. It's all about judgements isn't it. From what I understand from the OP, she obviously considered the van was badly driven and that his was a pointless manouevre and she let him know; he appears to have disagreed with her point of view and let her know. It then escalated to the point where he assaulted her.

Paul, indeed it is. Shouldn't be any closer than you should get to a car.

Bit more than 'shrugging'

Are you even reading anything anybody else is writing? She shrugged. Then she walked round to have a polite conversation, because he'd opened his window that side. At what point did she escalate things in your humble opinion?

Maybe on the open road but not really when in urban traffic.

With the greatest of respect, that's total bollocks.

To all intents and purposes, bike = car. They have the same rights, and should be treated as such. If you can't overtake without getting too close then you flipping well stay behind them until you can.

if the driver repeatedly try to ram your wife and bike i would say thats attempted murder not dangerous driving and i would go to the police station and request to speak to the inspector in charge plus i would not say the driver stopped short of my wife i would word it as luckily he did not actually strike my wife

Shouldn't be any closer than you should get to a car.

Yes, yes, yes, but back in the real world, people do. There's a difference between what people should do and what actually happens.

There should have been 20 coppers at the station waiting to respond to the situation in an ideal world, but back in the real world there wasn't.

With regards to the actual incident, you've got to make a judgement with regards to your safety and respond accordingly - the white van man was driving aggressively, so was likely to act aggressively when someone reacted to the tool, as he subsequently did.

In short, it's not worth getting into a fight over, or damaging your bike for, despite what the STW Justice League™ may advocate.

The OP's wife could have quietly and discreetly taken his numberplate, while taking an alternative route for the rest of the journey. Then report the fella.

I've been in plenty of scrapes on the commute, and apart from venting a bit of spleen, no one gains from arguing in the road, as this thread demonstrates.

Unless you're a proper hard man, of course.

To all intents and purposes, bike = car.

Not on any road I've been on.

Thats terrible, glad no serious injury done. Keep at the police, try and get CCTV, don't speak to witnesses or offender. If you've got CTC membership get legal advice from them. I found it incredibly hard to get in touch with the police when I was in an accident.

I've seen so much mad stuff on my commutes to work in Edinburgh recently I really think I might buy a little head cam. World seems to be getting angrier, I swear when I was a student cycling around town in the 90's it was much friendlier.

I find your "she brought it on herself" reasoning quite disturbing psling. 😕

But regardless of the lead up, I think what we can agree on is the second the guy started using his vehicle as a weapon to deliberately and repeatedly hit her and her bike, he stepped over a very clear line and he should be prosecuted for that.

The fact that a reg plate, four willing witnesses and hopefully CCTV are all available means I'd want some very good reasons from the police why they haven't booked this guy yet.

The OP's wife could have quietly and discreetly taken his numberplate, while taking an alternative route for the rest of the journey. Then report the fella.

Christ if I took down the numberplate of every car that overtook me badly then I'd need a very big notebook!

There was nothing worth reporting till the guy escalated it himself.

With the greatest of respect, that's total bollocks.

Are you telling me that when you're riding in stop-start traffic that you respectfully stay at least 2 metres off the bumper of the vehicle in front and that if you pass a vehicle on your bike (either undertake or overtake)in slow moving traffic you leave at least a metre between you and that vehicle?

At what point did she escalate things in your humble opinion?

Possibly when she put her bike down in front of the van (such that the driver had to reverse to get around it to keep the traffic moving) and started trying to take photos?

And FWIW, it is [i]only[/i] my humble opinion; if it had been me in that situation and I considered the van had passed too closely I'd have most likely slammed the side of the van and reduced myself to giving him a tirade of profanities in return. If I'd have been assaulted for my troubles I'd have probably given myself a very stern talking to later when I'd calmed down and told myself to try and chill when riding amongst idiots in vehicles.

GrahamS - Member
I find your "she brought it on herself" reasoning quite disturbing psling.

But regardless of the lead up, I think what we can agree on is the second the guy started using his vehicle as a weapon to deliberately and repeatedly hit her and her bike, he stepped over a very clear line and he should be prosecuted for that.

The fact that a reg plate, four willing witnesses and hopefully CCTV are all available means I'd want some very good reasons from the police why they haven't booked this guy yet.

I don't think for one moment that she brought it on herself. And I fully agree with the rest of your post.

Gosh two pages all about me! I am the 'wife'. Admittedly if I hadn't raised my arm in the international sign language for 'what were you thinking?', I would never have gotten into the situation that I did. He would have gone on his merry way. But when you are placed in a situation when you are in fear of your life, such as nearly being knocked off your bike, your fight or flight instincts kick in and your muscles get all the blood that your brain would otherwise benefit from. I made a heat of the moment decision to challenge dangerous behaviour, in the hope that he would perhaps give cyclists more room in future. I don't deny my actions got me in hot water, things would have been different if I had ignored his actions. But that shouldn't detract that his actions were clearly unnaceptable and illegal.

I get cut up and passed unsafely almost every journey I make, sometimes you just get a bit tired of it. Judge me as you will.

Nice retort.

Its hard sometimes to ride on but generally better. Tell 'em they are a clown, laugh in their face and ride off is the line I attempt to take - don't get involved in stand up arguments. However do let them know what you think of them.

However in this case do press for charges and do get them to check the CCTV

girlonabike - respect to you!

The driver's actions when you confronted him should be dealt with and I really do hope the Police follow it up and that he ends up in court and convicted.

Gosh two pages all about me! I am the 'wife'.

Cooo-ee! [i]*waves*[/i]

Well I told you that folk on here would be "helpful" and (generally) sympathetic 😕
Still, at least you get wide range of opinions 😀

I get cut up and passed unsafely almost every journey I make, sometimes you just get a bit tired of it.

You need help with anger management issues. 😆

Well, that's what the response normally is on this forum.

Glad you're ok in the end!

Possibly when she put her bike down in front of the van (such that the driver had to reverse to get around it to keep the traffic moving) and started trying to take photos?

You lot are making a scene on here. Get a room, boys! 😉

But regardless of the lead up, I think what we can agree on is the second the guy started using his vehicle as a weapon to deliberately and repeatedly hit her and her bike, he stepped over a very clear line and he should be prosecuted for that.

This ^^^

Here is my email to the Police, thought it might be of interest. Will see what response I get...

Hello,

I am emailing regarding an incident (number ***) yesterday which I reported at Leith Police station shortly after it had happened. I was cycling home, and I was assaulted by a driver at the junction at the foot of Leith walk. (intentionaly hit by his vehicle, a white ford transit registration ET** ***)I have the details of the driver (description, registration plate, and I took a photo of his registration plate), and I have the names and numbers of four witnesses willing to make statements to what they saw. There also are CCTV cameras in the area that may have caught what happened. When I reported the incident there was not an officer available to take a statement. I would like to know when I can give my statement, as this was in my opinion, a serious incident, which is deserving of some investigation. Could I have the contact details of the officer who has been assigned this case, or even better could he contact me as soon as is possible?

I leave on holiday on sunday morning (the 5th Feb), and return on thursday afternoon (the 9th), and would like to get my statement done before I leave. Will this be possible? I am a little concerned that I haven't had any contact regarding this assault and damage to my property (my bike was also hit by the van, and damaged). I look forward to hearing from you soon,

Thanks

You might want to remove at least some parts of that whilst you still have time to edit (or ask the mods nicely if it's too late).

at least I had the forethought to remove my address and mobile number 🙂

Yeah, probably wise if the actual reg. no wasn't put in the public domain right now....

Otherwise, you have my total sympathy and respect for how you handled things, and I'd draw a distinction between being assertive (which you rightly and properly were) and being aggressive / causing trouble (which some here seem to be alleging).

Hope you get the right result

I reckon you handles the situation incredibly calmly girlonabike.

Seems very lucky you weren't hurt considering WVMs repeated attempts at running you over, and thankfully there were socially responsible people around to act as witnesses.

Psycho's like this deserve all they get.

I generally adopt a "not responding makes the accuser look pathetic" stance - i.e. as long as I'm still on my bike and not a crumpled heap on the road, then just ignore them and their intolerance issues.

Although I guess this is basically letting them get away with it, whereas your response at least means there might be one less dangerous driver around to injure/kill others.

I have put some consideration into what I might do in future to avoid putting myself in this position again. My thoughts are that I may take an alternative route to work in light of this. I always avoided using cycle paths in the belief that they were often unlit and put me in an isolated and vulnerable position. I told myself the roads were for my use, and why should I have to use alternatives because I have a right to use the road equal to motorized vehicles. But in terms of my safety, the likelihood of being attacked on a dimly lit path is now in my opinion, lower than the risks I expose myself to when on the roads. Self preservation may force me off the road. Although I am conflicted because I feel if cyclists keep using the roads, drivers will learn how to safely share the roads with them. My choice is my Personal safety or my principles, one of them is going to have to give!

I get the impression you can look after yourself pretty well so why should you give up your right to ride on the public highway because of the actions of one idiot. I know we're up against 1 1/2 ton of metal every time a motorist takes umbrage against being held up by a cyclist but what you say is true; if cyclists move off of the roads drivers will become ever more of the opinion that cyclists [i]shouldn't[/i] be on the roads.

Read this [url= http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/comment/blogs/s/1472953_andrew-grimes-why-the-bicycle-has-no-place-on-our-city-roads ]Andrew Grimes numpty[/url], get angry, and get back on the road! 😀

Sorry to hear about this - used to use that junction on my commute many years ago. Its very disappointing to read about the inital attitude from the police dept too - i'd be tempted to complain about it. Personally i choose not to use the cycle paths at night/whenever its dark and still don't / wouldn't - i don't feel safe and i've had stuff chucked at me as well, as well as a ned trying to force me off my bike.

girlonabike - sorry to read you had to go through this.
When I was verbally assaulted a few years ago (luckily the guy didn't try and hit me) while cycling to work, the police were very good. I had 3 witnesses and the police officer I spoke to was on an mtb at the time, so totally understood my fears.
He came round to my house the very next day and took a statement.

Try and enjoy your holiday and let us know the outcome.

I've just been to the Police this afternoon to make my statement.

I was offered two choices, to press on with a prosecution because what he did was an offence under the public order act, or just have the police make him a visit and put him right about his behaviour.

I chose the 2nd option because he didn't actually hit me and nothing was damaged - if i had been in the OP's position i would have definitely pressed charges.

In my particular case a couple of the questions asked by the officer made me think that the bloke in question was known to them.

Officer is going to ring me back in a few days to let me know how the visit went - i do hope he kicks off at the police! 😆

Little update- I got a reply from the email I sent asking for the officer assigned, the reply was, that nobody had yet been assigned, but when they were, they would forward my email. I know they have limited resources but I cant help thinking that they aren't taking it seriously. I shouldn't have to be chasing them up. Thanks for all the kind words, advice and support from you all, it is appreciated. Will update you with any developments when I get back from my holiday, I need it!

Tell them not to bother assigning an officer as you have tracked down the driver and have him locked in your basement.

I'm sure they'll be in touch quicker, they can't charge you for wasting their time as you told them not to bother contacting you.

I find in Embra that it's the taxi drivers that are worst, worse than anywhere else I've lived. They have zero patience.

News flash ... music in the background.

"Edinburgh a city infested with aggressive zombies. Cyclists don't leave home without your Glock 19 and Bennelli M1 or M4 Super 90!" ... music end.

🙄

p/s: keep putting pressure on the police and let the thug suffers bureaucratic punishment.

What a shitty experience but all too common. Take details, report to the police but what else can you do?

On Friday a woman reversed into me while we were sat in traffic. She knew I was there because my light was flashing away in her mirror. After I recovered I banged on her window and asked her WTF she thought she was doing. She just locked the door, mouthed that she was sorry and that was it as far as she was concerned.

That sort of crap is so common I don't even bother bitching about it any more.

Hope your incident gets sorted.