Wide road tyres..

Schwalbe g-one

Try them. I don't like wide tyres on the road as they just don't feel as road bikish to me and the bike starts to feel less sprightly but I do like a very sprightly feeling bike that others would probably just label twitchy and uncomfortable.

I'm not a racer, I pootle around enjoying cafes and scenery and i want to be comfortable, my bikes run 30 and 32mm tyres.

Try them

Well I was kind of hoping that I wouldn't have to try loads of different widths at £100 a go - hence asking on here!

I’m not a racer, I pootle around enjoying cafes and scenery and i want to be comfortable

Yep that's me also. 🙂

my bikes run 30 and 32mm tyres.

Is that because any larger won't fit your frame - would you run 34 if you bike would take them? Can you tell the difference between the 30 and the 32s?

32s are the sweet spot.  Larger and they’re both draggy and far less aero and are really punishing on longer rides. I’ve tried everything from 23s upto 40s 38/40 are more comfortable, even at the same pressures, but 32s on a wide internal rim at 45-55psi are perfect for my 72kg.

EDIT - by aero I don’t mean racing, just that once you’re above 20kph you start to feel the difference and above 30, they become bothersome - you’re actively working against them and can fell/see it (with a power meter) and so for short rides less than 50km, it’s okay, but anything longer and for me, they have a cumulative negative effect.

Where are you going to ride?
The worse the surface, the nicer that the bigger tyres will feel.
I ride everything from mirror smooth tarmac to well maintained gravel/dirt roads, so i've found something about 30-32 at 4-5 bar is best for me. Use smaller (28 at the moment) when the weather gets worse as the gravel/dirt roads are no longer passable.

That said, I am keen on the most efficient tyres in terms of rolling resistance, don’t want to be pedalling through treacle for the sake of it…

That's more about construction, quality and set up (decent tubes/tubeless) than the size. Some of those bigger tyres can have relatively good rolling resistance, and something like a schwalbe marathon will have horrendous rolling resistance even at 10 bar in a 15mm width...
Road feel can also be impacted by the tyre, a nice light racy tyre, even in a bigger size can feel quite nice to ride.

I have 37mm continental contact speed on my road wheels for the gravel bike, I used to use 38mm gravel king slicks but found they were too soft and got cut up before worn out, which was a shame as I really liked them.

I worry more about what cake will be at the café than speed, and enjoy the comfort, helps my wrists too.

I agree with Daffy - 32 is best for all round use. I have ridden 38 and 44 also. The problem with big tyres is that they deform a lot more when you're out of the saddle - steep climbs especially. They can also get quite bouncy because obviously there's no damping. And they do feel noticeably less aero once you get into the mid 20mph range, but they can very quick over rough roads below 20mph. Plus there are far fewer pure road tyres available above 32mm so your choice becomes much more limited (and slower rolling). Going from 28 to 32 (with a corresponding drop in pressures) is a very noticeable improvement in comfort. Fast 32mm tyres are the best of both worlds.

I have 38mm Gravel Kings on my gravel bike for road duties. I have a nice set of road wheels I swap them over for pure road rides. I think these are made of paper as they cut up very badly. They’ve sealed so not had any issues with them and I guess I do very light gravel on them which they seem to not like. Before the Gravel Kings I had 38mm Rene Herse Barlow Pass, they were ok. Comfortable but did feel draggy but that was likely  to be perceived dragginess due to them dulling the ride - I don’t think there would be much real world speed difference (and yeah they were tubeless).

But to be honest I agree with Daffy. 32mm is the sweet spot for road in my opinion. But a good 32mm tyre, GP 5000 type.  Set up tubeless I’ve found 32mm to offer good levels of comfort.

My riding is north east UK road riding and with that, all the awful road surfaces that we have to put up with. I do a mixture of ride distances from 20k, and regularly up to 80K at the weekend.  I'm after comfort for my carpal tunnel but not at the expense of fatigue on longer rides with my group. I will be using premium quality tyres setup tubeless (Schwalbe Pro One is my benchmark currently). I was thinking of putting 30mm on my 19mm internal road wheels but maybe a 32 is a better option. Am I going to notice the difference between the 30 and 32?

I have a set of gravel wheels which currently have Specialized Pathfinder 38mm on -  I have used them on the road and they are comfortable but not that fast. I'd like to keep those for gravel duties only and have something for pure road use all year round.

My road bike came fitted with 32mm tyres. I thought these seemed wide compared to the 25mm tyres on my old road bike but thought I’d give them a go. I find them more comfortable on the generally poor Surrey country back roads, and also better grip on wet roads - although in the absence of any real A-B testing both could be psychological.

So I was very interested to read the comments above.

28mm on my road bike that acts as a pure road bike, 32mm on my commuter that does long country miles with guards and rack. I'd not want more to be honest. Tubeless and the low pressures that allows extra comfort helps too.

I have some Giant ones around 30mm and they seem good to me.

I've ridden 38mm gravel tyres (ultra bites) on a touring style day ride before and they were fine but a bit draggy at the end.

I reckon around 30mm is good. Just a little less jarring than 25mm.

I tend to ride away from main A & B routes so less smooth roads.

25c, 30c and 50c on two road bikes and a gravel bike.

50c for the win on the commute.

30c for the win on long/ fast rides.

25c feels mega harsh everywhere now. Maybe I'm old, maybe I'm not used to it anymore, maybe the roads have got worse maybe all of the above. If that bike could fit wider tyres I'd have them on.

I tried 35mm gravel king slicks when I first got my gravel bike, they were quick enough and fairly versatile, but the handling does start to suffer once you're over 32mm - the front just doesn't tip in as well in my experience and it feels like a fast gravel bike rather than a road bike.

Have settled back on 32mm Conti GP5000TL (they measure up around 31mm on 18mm internal DT Swiss rims) as a nice balance between agile and comfy.

I don’t think you will notice a real world speed difference between 30 and 32mm.

When I was racing I did all sorts of testing to find my fastest set up. Including testing tyres of different sizes on different rims. Whilst not scientific (was just me on the local closed road crit circuit with a power meter and a selection of wheels / tyres). I didn’t notice any significant differences. From memory 25mm was the fastest (on 65mm rims); 32mm was only a couple of watts different. I opted for 27mm for the mixture of comfort and speed. But this was on a smooth circuit, averaging 280 watts and 23mph on an aero bike. Real road conditions will bring them closer together.

(The Crit circuit is a kidney shape, ok road surface, small but high intensity high speed climb followed by a fast downhill and then a fast straight - I admit this wasn’t intended to be a real world test)

I’d suggest giving them a go, or possibly even trying a 35mm Rene Herse. It sounds like you would prefer comfort to outright speed. You will lose a very small amount of speed but you will probably make up for it in comfort and less fatigue.

https://www.thewoodscyclery.co.uk/shop/tyres/rene-herse-compass-bon-jon-endurance/

I’m also a huge fan of Compass tyres. I don’t know how they are so comfortable but they really are good. I didn’t lose speed with these, I found them a very fast but comfortable tyre. I really did feel like the 27mm tyre felt as comfortable as a 32. So you could also give the 33mm a go.

https://www.challengetires.com/shop/products/strada-bianca-6/230712

Well I was kind of hoping that I wouldn’t have to try loads of different widths at £100 a go – hence asking on here!

Great, but as always you will ge a variety of opinions so whose opinion will you take and will that rider be the same as you and want the same as you.

Saying that, sounds like there is some consensus around 32 and as you have already used 30 then don't expect a really noticeable difference from 2mm.

I don’t like wide tyres on the road as they just don’t feel as road bikish to me and the bike starts to feel less sprightly but I do like a very sprightly feeling bike that others would probably just label twitchy and uncomfortable.

This is what worries me, I have 25mm GP4000s at 80psi (I'm 87kg) on my 'fast' (relative term...) road bike. I don't find them especially uncomfortable but do tend to adjust my lines for broken tarmac and found myself taking less than ideal lines on some roads on a ride recently to avoid broken tar/loose gravel on the fastest line.

So 28mm tyres might ACTUALLY be faster due to smoothing out the road, and might be more comfortable, but would they make the bike FEEL faster? I know my gravel bike with 38mm Terrenos can be reasonably quick on tarmac (I've only recently beaten my PB on a longish road climb originally set on the gravel bike) but it doesn't FEEL as quick as the road bike.

Saying that, sounds like there is some consensus around 32 and as you have already used 30 then

No I haven’t tried any 30s yet.

Yes, comfort is my aim but without compromising my ability to keep up on longer rides.

Those Compass tyres look good. Quite ££ though!

So 28mm tyres might ACTUALLY be faster due to smoothing out the road, and might be more comfortable, but would they make the bike FEEL faster? I know my gravel bike with 38mm Terrenos can be reasonably quick on tarmac (I’ve only recently beaten my PB on a longish road climb originally set on the gravel bike) but it doesn’t FEEL as quick as the road bike.

Most of that feel is just the high frequency vibration you get from high pressure narrow tyres. After a couple of weeks you stop noticing it's gone....

My gravel bike has 47mm tyres and they work great on the road 😀 My "fast" road bike is currently fitted with 28s but I'll be changing those to 30 or 32mm as soon as the tyres wear. If you're not racing then the added comfort is well worthwhile and you're much less fatigued on longer rides as a result (which buys speed in another way).

I'd not worry about rim width. We were running 2.1" and 2.25" MTB tyres on 19mm rims just a few years ago.

I have Wtb Exposure in 36c but I've measured them at 38mm with calipers. They're very comfortable but definitely a bit more draggy than the 30c tyres my buddy was riding. I think 32c might be the sweet spot but I haven't yet tried them.

My tyres are on 19mm width rims and they seem to work ok. I read somewhere that you can go double the internal width so I'm on the limit on that basis but I haven't noticed any issues related to my relatively narrow rims.

I really need to up my road bike tyre widths as the state of most of the roads, not to mention my aging knackered wrists/palms make extended rides quite uncomfortable these days.

Have an old Van Nic Zephyr Ti with Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset with Conti Gran Prix 4000s Mk2 (23cc).

I'm not entirely sure if those rims would take a 32mm tyre.

Seems like 30 or 32 then. I’d like some of those Compass tyres but £200 is a bit excessive even for me!

Schwalbe Pro One tubeless are about £80 for a set so perhaps I’ll give them a shot in a 32C…

£82.00 – £97.00

Jeez! I thought my G-Ones were expensive!

I was thinking about this as I was out on my road bike last weekend.

The boarder roads in Shropshire / Wales are getting very muddy/greasy etc. My new GP5000 28mm are on the best bike, and I have some super heavy 20 yr old CX tyres on my CX that i use for winter duties. The CX bike is so sluggish in comparison due to the tyres.

It would appear that 30/32 would be good for winter bike. But what I cant decide is whether to stick with slicks or get something with slight dimples / grooves?  The majority of the time I think slick is absolutely fine and offers the most grip. However on a steep decent last week the road was greasy and mossy, and it was a case of dont brake or brake and slide (on 28mm) Are there any fast rolling slightly grooved/dimpled tyres or is a wider 30/32 slick going to give more grip anyhow?

i used to run 700 x 38 panaracer gravelking SK, on tarmac they were happy peddling 24-25km an hour with 300-350m climbing, very very comfy bike topstone carbon with those tyres around 35psi

I really need to up my road bike tyre widths as the state of most of the roads, not to mention my aging knackered wrists/palms make extended rides quite uncomfortable these days.

Redshift stem...

However on a steep decent last week the road was greasy and mossy, and it was a case of dont brake or brake and slide (on 28mm) Are there any fast rolling slightly grooved/dimpled tyres or is a wider 30/32 slick going to give more grip anyhow?

I doubt it would make any difference, any tyre will slip on that...

The boarder roads in Shropshire / Wales are getting very muddy/greasy etc. My new GP5000 28mm are on the best bike, and I have some super heavy 20 yr old CX tyres on my CX that i use for winter duties. The CX bike is so sluggish in comparison due to the tyres.

My winter bike runs 28mm GP5000 on the front and 30mm on the rear. 30mm is a bit too wide for the 40mm deep section wheels, so would be throwing away any aero gains on the front.

The boarder roads in Shropshire / Wales are getting very muddy/greasy etc

Yes, this is a consideration too. I read that tread makes no difference in the wet on a thin road tyre but riders like tread as it inspires confidence. Now I’m not sure if that also applies to moss and general road grease on a UK road in the winter. I try and ride off the main roads so debris and slime is likely to be encountered.

So that’s another question I suppose - are wider tyres going to be safer?

I ride everything from 21mm GP4000's (one on the front HED3 on Sunday) to 30mm G One Speeds. If I am honest, the best handling tyre/wheel combo for me is GP5000's in 23c on an Open Pro with latex tubes. I also have the same in 25c on wider carbon rims, but don't really notice the difference in ride quality. Since I like the GP5000's so much, and the G One Speeds are now tubed after a few slits, and a killer to remove, I was thinking of going to 28c for testing on CXP33 rims (19 mm internal). I'm 72 kg today.

I am unconvinced of the speed advantage of wider tyres, and the comfort isn't such a massive thing for me either. Latex inner tubes, however, are noticeably more compliant. Like riding tubulars.

NOTHING is as aero as a 21mm GP4000 on a 19mm HED3 running at 100 psi.

I have Schwalbe G One Allround 35 tubeless on my general road bike and they're a godsend on B-roads, light gravel and just generally on less than perfect tarmac.  Ideal for NCN / Sustrans-type routes.  I'd say it's the small knobbles than help the most, but of course add drag at higher speeds.

My more classic road bike runs Schwalbe One Evo 28c, also tubeless.   This is just a generally less comfortable bike, though definitely faster - aero wheels and 20% lighter weight help.  I wouldn't choose these tyres for allround use.

Finally, I run WTB 650b Byway 47c on a hybrid.  These are excellent across urban cobbles and unsurfaced bike paths, almost MTB-lite, but between the flat bar setup, weight and tyres this bike runs out of puff quite quickly.

The problem with big tyres is that…. They can also get quite bouncy because obviously there’s no damping.

I thought the opposite was true. Thin tyres at high pressure are bouncy so they skip over bumps on the surface, lose grip and generate fatigue. Wider tyres at a lower pressure are more absorbent of road imperfections and remain in contact with the surface for a greater percentage of time. No?

Wider tyres will certainly give extra comfort, but they don't have to sacrifice loads of speed. My 4" Jumbo Jims were comfy, bit draggy but fine for short commutes, but the 2.35" G One Speeds were comfy and positively flew. Surprisingly enough, my 38mm 45Nrth Gravdal 240 ice spike tyres are draggy as hell, but they keep you upright in snow/ice!

Around 38mm size I've had positive experiences with Marathon Cross and currently have Marathon Supreme on my hybrid (40mm rear, 35mm front, they size a bit small to ~38/33).

My road bike has had 32mm rear and 23/25mm front GP5000 for a few years, for a mix of comfort and semi-aero (without being that harsh at all with 23mm at ~95PSI when I was ~80Kg).

I've never tried them, but Panaracer Gravel King variants have a decent reputation and go from traditional road size to at least up around 40mm. Orange 38s for £27 https://www.merlincycles.com/panaracer-gravel-king-slick-colour-edition-tlc-folding-tyre-700c-264245.html , fancier casing for £40 https://www.merlincycles.com/panaracer-gravel-king-slick-tlc-folding-tyre-700c-248528.html , SK (small knob) variant goes all the way to 50mm for £32-39 https://www.merlincycles.com/panaracer-gravel-king-sk-tlc-folding-tyre-700c-90671.html

I've always got on really well with Gravel King slicks, 32 on the road bike, 35 on the commuter and 38mm on the gravel bike for more road based rides. Set up with a mix of tubed and tubeless and I've never felt slow. Recently swapped out GP5000 32 tubed on the road bike to the 32 Gravel King tubeless and the Garmin isn't suggesting I am any slower.

I thought the opposite was true. Thin tyres at high pressure are bouncy so they skip over bumps on the surface, lose grip and generate fatigue. Wider tyres at a lower pressure are more absorbent of road imperfections and remain in contact with the surface for a greater percentage of time. No?

It's a bit of both. I've a background in TT riding - I used to race on 18mm tyres at 10 bars (160psi - yes really!) because that's what we thought was fast back then.....in a TT position especially it fatigued you like something else. Unless the road was super smooth I'm sure the jarring slowed you down too. At the other end I now run a fat bike - 4.8 inch tyres at something like 6 psi. Big tyres at low pressure do indeed soak up all the small stuff but you do get a bit of rebound too - ride over a small pothole and it will soak it up...ride over a small pothole fast or a bigger pothole and they will also compress and rebound you back up too.

Like everything a compromise is probably best. On a road bike on actual roads I'm just not convinced there is much to be gained above 32mm unless you are loaded touring etc. Wider rims will make that 32mm pretty voluminous too. If you are a chunky monkey sat up like a bag of spuds it maybe not all that, but wider tyres present a wider frontal area also. And whilst road rims have been altered significantly since my 18mm rubber days, I'm not convinced there are many rims around that will make anything above 28mm not an aero drag.

Yes, comfort is my aim but without compromising my ability to keep up on longer rides.

FWIW a lot of pro teams are moving to larger sizes, and not just for the classics. Not usual to see 26-28 sized tyres on some bikes. And they are travelling at speeds where aero is a serious concern. So i don't think it's likely to be a serious issue. Unless you're going 38+ and running them at 3 bar.

NOTHING is as aero as a 21mm GP4000 on a 19mm HED3 running at 100 psi.

Should be running double discs...
And might not be as aero, but lots of combinations are faster.

They can also get quite bouncy because obviously there’s no damping.

Well, if you will just get off your bike and roll it down a hill, riderless, it will get a bit bouncy.

What about a combo then? Say 30c up front with a 32c rear? Near perfect Goldilocks solution???

Should be running double discs…

Treble Hed3's is enough 😉

My new wheels have just turned up at the office with a pair of 30mm Schwalbe Pro Ones which I will attempt to wrestle on in the next days once my disc rotor tool arrives.

I've had 28mm Conti Gatorskins with tubes for years on my commuter and found them fairly grim, magnifying the lack of compliance in the frame and not feeling particularly rapid either.

Used to ride 38mm G-One All Roads on my CX/Gravel bike which I liked as they were light and relatively snappy/quick on and off road, and more recently I've been riding mainly road on my Revolt on 40mm Cadex AR which also feel good and work well for the bridleways and crappy tarmac in Surrey/East Sussex where most of my road riding is. Solo I'll happy pootle along all day but riding with other roadies, I have to work hard to keep up over 30km/h so have taken the plunge on a new wheelset to see if it helps.

Picked 30mm to enable slightly lower pressures for comfort whilst still giving a weight and aero benefit over the Cadex ARs. Anything larger and I felt like there is little point swapping wheels as I'll don't think I'll get tangible benefit. The Revolt wheels are the hookless CXR2 with a 25mm internal width, the new wheels are clincher 19mm internal.

My road wheels are 19mm internal and I'm going to end up with 32mm I think... I'm not 100% convinced that I won't subsequently decide that I would have preferred the 34mm from a comfort perspective but I suspect I'll get used to it and get wider ones next time. It's a good job those Rene Herse tyres are out of stock although I did read that because they are hand made the rubber thickness can vary and so they are a faff to setup tubeless as sealant can come out of the sidewalls for a week or two... CBA with that on a £90 tyre.

Schwalbe Pro Ones is what I'm getting in a 32c... probably... or maybe a 30c. No, 32c definitely... maybe. Bloody carpal tunnel. 🙄

I’ve always got on really well with Gravel King slicks, 32 on the road bike, 35 on the commuter and 38mm on the gravel bike for more road based rides. Set up with a mix of tubed and tubeless and I’ve never felt slow. Recently swapped out GP5000 32 tubed on the road bike to the 32 Gravel King tubeless and the Garmin isn’t suggesting I am any slower.

Yeah, the Gravelking slicks i had (35mm) rode really well, but were very puncture prone. I'm about to hit the button on a pair of GravelKing + tyres for my winter road bike - they've got extra puncture protection which i'm hoping will help.

I've also got a set of GravelKing SKs - think they're 35mm - i find them really draggy in the road - like towing a trailer!

I thought the opposite was true. Thin tyres at high pressure are bouncy so they skip over bumps on the surface, lose grip and generate fatigue. Wider tyres at a lower pressure are more absorbent of road imperfections and remain in contact with the surface for a greater percentage of time. No?

Yes, that theory is broadly correct, with the caveat that skinny tyres are not bouncy - they are jarring - they deflect sharply over road imperfections. Whereas high volume tyres do actually bounce because they effectively have 2-3cm of undamped suspension in the tyre casing.

Bigger road tyres are certainly smoother over those sorts of smaller jarring road imperfections, because they absorb them, as you say. But, when using really big tyres (40mm +) they can become quite bouncy and unstable on larger more undulating road imperfections (think more along the lines of road subsistence problems), especially at higher speeds. It's not a massive problem, it's not even noticeable most of the time, it's just less than ideal. A 32mm tyre does a very good job of absorbing smaller road defects without getting bounced around so much by larger defects.

Yes, that theory is broadly correct, with the caveat that skinny tyres are not bouncy – they are jarring – they deflect sharply over road imperfections. Whereas high volume tyres do actually bounce because they effectively have 2-3cm of undamped suspension in the tyre casing.

Ah I see. Thanks for explaining. 👍

I've got a 2013 Defy with 622-14 rims. It came with 23mm tyres and since they wore out I've used 25s and now thinking of trying 28s. The charts I've seen say 28s should be ok on that rim width but I'm wondering if squeezing the tyre will make it taller and it'll not leave enough clearance from the frame. What clearance is acceptable?

I do think the tyre construction can make almost as much difference as the width, I ran 25c Conti tyres (GP/GP4 seasons) for ages thinking they felt pretty good, I've recently switched to 28c front and 25c rear Vittoria on 20mm int rims (still with tubes) both with a higher TPI (I think) and I would say there's been an appreciable improvement in comfort and (anecdotally I guess) rolling.

Unlike the OP I'm limited on width due to still being on a rim braked bike, I think both ends could go up to 28c but I've tended to stick to a skinnier rear tyre on the basis that I know it will fit and I can adjust pressure to improve ride to some extent.

My Gravel bike runs 40mm tyres on a 25mm int rim and those are in a sweet spot (IMO) for a mixed on/off-road drop-barred bike not so skinny that every bump feels jarring, not so draggy that 10 miles on tarmac is an utter chore but hardly whippet fast.

I have the same 20mm int rims on my CX bike as the road bike, but I'm running 31mm vittoria terreno's tubeless and there is a very different ride quality there to the road bike (obviously at about 2/3rds the pressure, with about 20% more volume), It's basically the bottom end of what sensibly works off-road I reckon, and you still have some uncomfortable moments when you catch something square edged and wince as the rim take a knock.

without constraints, at higher pressures on the road (without knobbles) I can see that sort of tyre working well, for Road bikes there has to be a limit to where more width is benefificial (IMO) and you're just carrying about extra cushioning that really belongs on a gravel bike...

Without the constraint of rim brakes I'd probably favour something in the 30-32mm width range, possibly tubeless for more comfort/better rolling, but I wouldn't rule out other types of tube just for simplicity (latex, TPU, etc) and I would always look at the tyre construction and favour higher Thread count as a way to gauge suppleness of the casing.

I have the WTB Exposure 36s on the gravel bike for commuting - loaded up with panniers they’re brilliant.

Without load the GP5000 28s on my road bike feel nicer.

PS -  the Exposures were £27 at Wiggle, though they’re now out of stock

What about a combo then? Say 30c up front with a 32c rear? Near perfect Goldilocks solution???

I’d much prefer better grip up front - rear grip is rarely much of a limitation on the roads.

So the other way round then? Tbh after I typed it I did decide that I would want the larger volume up front anyway, if anything, to ease the discomfort in my hands.

Goodyear eagle F1 tubeless 32c are £69 a pair at Evans right now, I've just ordered a set.

I saw those but it didn't say if tey were 700 or 650 or whatever so I ignored...

EDIT - actually if you filter by 700c tyres they come up in the results.

Ran quite a few sets of Rene Herse and had no problems setting up tubeless. And I’m a cack handed fool.

The Compass Tyres come out at £120 a pair (   https://www.merlincycles.com/challenge-strada-bianca-handmade-tubeless-ready-road-tyre-700c-296584.html   )

I’m a bit of an OCD kind of guy, there’s others  with a racing background on here who are similar….and we kind of repeat the same things on these types of threads. But your question is about finding the holy grail between comfort, speed and puncture resistance. There are probably just a small number of tyres that meet these requirements and you’re still going to have to compromise. There is also the fine balancing as to get speed and comfort, as you then start introducing less puncture resistance.
GP5000 are probably the safest best. But I wouldn’t rule out the Compass. As long as you’re comfortablem with the fact that it’s a race ready tlr tyre. The only flat I had that wouldn’t seal was a huge **** off nail through the side wall. I used my compass tyres for crit racing, general road racing and also lots of fast training rides. They’re not on the bike now, I’m running mainly gravel tyres (scwalbe g one ultra. Ok but heavy, grip in winter off road is great though)

I know I’m the wrong demographic, but for me I’d be seeing how comfortable a 30mm handmade clincher is. The speed certainly won’t slow you down. They do cut up over, but so will most comfortable fast tyres. It’s part of the compromise.

@w00dster - thanks for all that info. A few questions if I may..

So, if I understand correctly the Strada Bianca are similar to the Rene Herse and both will suffer from more punctures? Is it just the sidewalls that are puncture prone and if I’m careful on and use on the road only will this be acceptable? That being the case is Stan’s Race sealant going to be the best option? Are they going to hold pressure once installed though or is sealant seeping through the sidewalls a problem?

Do you not think the Pro Ones are a contender?

Compass tyres, and the better Challenge ones, are hand made - as opposed to vulcanised. The result is that the tyre is very flexible (and generally thin) so will ride beautifully and have a very low rolling resistance, especially over rough roads. And yes, they will leak sealant because of that. They are basically an 'open tubular' design - the tyre tread is bonded/sown to the casing, as was historically done with tubs (which is how you create a proper tan wall tyre). Being hand made makes them more expensive, so they are generally sold as fast racing tyres and are therefore not the sort of thing that you would want to run through winter, unless you have money to burn. Compass/Rene Herse do make an endurance casing with more puncture protection, but they are still a very expensive tyre to run in winter. The standard or extralight casings have very minimal puncture protection - I have had both casings on different bikes and I have never had a tyre with so many plugs in as those!

These days a top notch vulcanised tyre can be faster than a hand made one, but they never ride quite so well (especially if you're on Continental), so a hand made tyre tends to be the connoisseurs choice. If you want to try something that is a bit of a half way house then Vittoria Corsas are good, or a Corsa Control in winter - although they do tend to get cut up quite easily.

As we head into winter you're probably better off a good quality vulcanised tyre. The Conti GP5000 is the leader in that category. I have never used Schwalbe Pro Ones but I'm sure they're fine too. GP5000 (and the GP4000 before it) usually tests as the fastest everyday tyre (although maybe the newish Michelin Power Cup now beats it...?). Challenge do make cheaper vulcanised versions of their tyres, but they wear down notoriously fast. The Panaracer Gravel King is also basically a vulcanised version of the Compass/Rene Herse tyres, and they make an excellent winter tyre as they can often be bought cheaply, but again, not the best puncture protection, although the file tread is nice to have. Everything is a compromise at the end of the day. On my best bike, I have been using Michelin Power Cups over summer, but I will take them off and put some Vittoria Corsa Controls on over winter, mainly because I bought some at a great price. The main thing to remember is that life is too short to ride shit tyres!

I have 36mm tyres on.
They are noticeably more comfy.
They downside (And bear in mind I am on a bike with mudguards and rack, plus biffer atop the saddle) is that at higher speed I do think I can feel extra wind resistance of my bike and me compared to a racing snake on a skinnier tyre and frame....But, that is speeds above what I can comfortably hold pedalling.
I *think* the wind resistance would be more of an issue if I lived somewhere flatter.

Goodyear eagle F1 tubeless 32c are £69 a pair at Evans right now, I’ve just ordered a set.

Thanks for the heads up - just done the same

I think I might stick some Pro Ones on for the winter then as they can be had for £40 each and treat myself in the summer to some super duper handmade ones perhaps. The reviews of the Pro Ones seem on a par generally with the GP5000s and they claim to be super comfy because of their 127EPI casing as opposed to the 67EPI on a standard Schwalbe - for reasons best known to Schwalbe they measure EndsPI instead of TheadsPI and don't add up the layers. eg a three layer 50TPI is sold as a 150TPI tyre by most but Schwalbe have 127EPI per layer they say.... 🤷‍♂️

I don’t know what it is, but I’ve never got on with Rene Herse tyres. I’m not sure if it’s the compound or the width (I’ve only used them in 36+ sizes), but something makes me feel like they’ve got less grip than other tyres. When I lean the bike over for a corner they start to get slidy very quickly, a bit like a mountain bike tyre with no transition knobs. Anyone else experience this? I maybe that I’m a big guy 1.95m and 105kg, so perhaps the weight/width/pressure compromises go awry.

I’m going to try a bunch of other wider tyres (including some schwalbe’s with mini knobs) and see how I go. I ride mostly in Dumfries and Galloway on roads which are often either shite or covered in shite, so a pure road tyre isn’t quite right.

When I lean the bike over for a corner they start to get slidy very quickly, a bit like a mountain bike tyre with no transition knobs. Anyone else experience this?

How wide are your rims? Have found with (very) wide slicks and flexible casings you need either higher pressures or wider rims so stop that drifty feel, think it's the way the tyre flexes as you side load it.

I’m not sure if it’s the compound or the width (I’ve only used them in 36+ sizes), but something makes me feel like they’ve got less grip than other tyres.

According to the reviews I’ve been reading since starting this thread they’re supposedly more grippy than other tyres except in the wet whereby you need a lower pressure… What pressure are you running yours at?

woodster or jamz will undoubtedly have better advice for you…

I'm a huge fan of GP5000TL.  In almost 20k km, I've only had one puncture which wouldn't seal on its own and needed a little assistance , that and they've been ran down to the canvas without puncturing.  They grip well, steer well and wear well compared to 4000s.  Looking forward to trying the 5000S TR next.  Lighter, and "better"...but are they as durable?

OP I would say if you can fit wider tyres and you aren’t racing or testing then go for it. 28mm was always the magic size for me when testing and racing and now I just do fun stuff like audaxes I prefer a little more comfort and not so fussed on the aero aspect. My datum’s were two imperial centuries I did a week apart. One on my fast bike on 28mm corsas and one on my Audax bike on Rene Herse 44s. The average speed difference between the two over 100 miles was 0.8mph in favour of the 28mm corsas. That’s such a negligible difference for me that it just doesn’t matter and I’ll take the comfort of the bigger tyres any day. I’ve used so many different tyres now that I tend to just go for the ones I like at that time. Bontrager R3 hard case lite 32mm were superb right up until the carcass and tread separated by bubbles.

I'm leaning towards a 34mm Pro One for the winter as I am not sure I can be bothered with the puncture/ride ending cut potential of the hand made tyres - that and the poor wet performance (unless you wipe with vinegar every few rides - yes you read that right, either the Rene Herse or Challanger website mentions it). We go down (and up obv!) some quite steep roads and one of the group has recently crashed twice skidding down a hill (I don't want to be unkind but I do think that may have been due at least in part to her poor bike handling ability but it may have been her tyres...🤷‍♂️) and I myself have struggled to slow down on occaision with both wheels locking up at relatively low speed on a steep descent and that is on a dry road in the summer!

So grip, comfort and speed are top priority followed by puncture resistance but without ride ending failures.... Purely road riding mostly off the main roads where possible.

Cast your votes...

Challenge Strada Bianca in a 30c or 33c

Challenge Gravel Grinder in a 36c (if it's the case that the Bianca is a daft choice for a north east UK winter and a more gravel oriented tyre will be stronger and more reliable when used on road - 36 is wide though...😲).

Schwalbe Pro One TLE in a 32c or 34c

Conti GP5000S TR in a 32c

Vittoria Corsa Pro Control in a 34c

Vittoria Corsa N.EXT in a 34c

I always thought the GP4000s were great tyres so I assume the GP5000 are equally good if not better. The only reason I haven't bought a set is I've not seen the 32c for less than about £70 per tyre

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/continental-grand-prix-5000-s-tr-tubeless-cyclocross-tyre/?aid=626b614a12d74b1d8ac24fb42332495e&

I bloody hope wider tyres are worth it, just removed my old 25mm GP4000s for some non-tubeless 28mm GP5000s.

45g extra weight per end (the difference between a normal inner tube and a latex tube, and I don't recall noticing when I swapped tubes). Only marginally larger to look at, I think because old GP4000s were slightly oversized anyway before Conti got more accurate with their sizing.

Most worried about the sound when bouncing them on the kitchen floor, they've lost that nice pingy latex noise 😂

Conti GP5000S TR in a 32c

would be my vote, but in the AS or All Season variety.  A bit heavier, better wet grip and more puncture resistance at the cost of a couple of watts a tyre.

so should I fit the widest I can – for supreme comfort?

No.

I'm using 28c Pro Ones, on 21mm rims, because they fit in my mudguards, and they are supremely comfortable. I can see no need to add the extra weight from a comfort perspective. However, you might get more grip on greasy and/or rough roads.

Now have very sore thumbs... ended up breaking out the tyre levers and washing up liquid.... (thanks GCN video) Tyres are on and inflated, not convinced that the beads are in the correct place fully as there was no pop even with the air tank, second tyre seemed to seal with just the track pump... but they're holding air, added some Stans sealant and had a tootle up and down the road.

Zippy 🙂

Won't get to ride properly until Friday.

Ive noticed that sometimes when seating/reseating tubeless there isn't always a pop, especially if you've used a lubricant to help get them on. Make sure the thin bead line on the tyre is uniformly visible a few mm above the rim edge on both sides and that will confirm they have seated OK.

I don't find 25 to 30mm is a major change, yes there's a bit more comfort from being able to drop the pressure but a 30mm tyre at 65-70psi is still not much tyre for many of the lanes I ride on. Fine on smooth roads, not great on at least half the tarmac I ride in an average 50-100 miler. A 30mm tyre is fine for 3-4 hours but on longer rides I'm finding they get annoyingly jarring after a while, whereas a 650 x 50mm G-One is another world and I carry speed on some of those lanes in a way that makes a real difference to maintaining a pace. 50mm is ott for all-tarmac rides yes, still I don't think they're slower over long distances but over a short section or a hill effort they're not as responsive-feeling if that matters. You wouldn't road-race on them but if you want to feel fast over a longer ride I'd say go for bigger, good quality tyres and ideally match them to a suitable rim so the aero section is ok.

If I was building an all-round road bike now I'd want light 37-42mm tyres on it. 700 or 650, not too fussed but I think the increase in rim size from 650 to 700 can mean dropping 5mm on tyre width for similar comfort with a slightly more road bike cornering edge feel.

Edit to add, if I think about a couple of the guys I ride with and how happy they are clattering over holes in the road on 28mm tyres.. maybe I'm just intolerant of things others are ok with..

@oceanskipper if you want some challenge gravel grinder in 700/36 I have some HTLR that are lightly used, no punctures that you can have for £65/pair posted.

I think if I had bigger tyres I might end up going faster still on the really rough sections and putting more impact into my road bike frame. It's not an MTB nor is it a gravel bike. I mean, on a really bad section of broken road I slow down, but these are generally pretty transient. There are some truly shitty lanes but I either avoid those or mince them, they're not that common. Roads that are just normally rough are fine on 28c.

The biggest benefit for me with larger tyres would be when there's gravel and mud all over the place. There is one corner on my local loop that frequently floods and is consequently deep in gravel, that I take slowly on 28c and I would corner faster if I had more rubber, but that would require basically a different bike altogether with its associated compromises.

On @51.5699014,-3.1479258,3a,75y,106.47h,71.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdbBFf5ZUQgMEQG9POAsLzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu">this bit of road I brake, but I am still doing a fair speed. I just don't hammer down it. I used to have to really take it carefully on 23c but not on 28c. But on an MTB I go full pelt down it.

Yeah I'd love to put some of those Rene Herse Jon Bons on, but perhaps not for the winter. There are mixed reviews about their performance in the wet and I'd rather test that during the summer whereby they won't need to be removed if that turns out to be the case. There's considerable faff in getting them setup too potentially, tread and sidewall thickness can be variable because they are hand made and they might potentially be difficult to seal. I CBA sending them back and, having no experience of them to date I wouldn't even know if any I bought were thinner than they ought to be; and then seemingly if you use the recommended SmartSeal sealant it needs changing every 30-45 days and is so thick/good it blocks up any valves so needs pouring in with the tyre unseated - even with the core removed it clogs apparently and will likely be a right pain with Reserve Fillimores although I'd be intrested to know if anyone has tried it. They would need to be outrageously good for all that to be worthwhile - maybe they are but I don't feel like testing for myself over the winter. I may still be persuaded otherwise though!

I'm still undecided but I'm thinking 34mm Pro Ones as they make a point of promoting  the "Souplesse" feature so I'm assuming Schwalbe must be quite confident that they are more comfortable than their competitors.....

I don’t find 25 to 30mm is a major change, yes there’s a bit more comfort from being able to drop the pressure but a 30mm tyre at 65-70psi is still not much tyre for many of the lanes I ride on

What do you weigh?! I'm 69kg and run 25s at 70psi! (and no, I've never had a snake bit in 12 years of road riding...) 30mm I would run at 52psi, which is just delightful.

Most worried about the sound when bouncing them on the kitchen floor, they’ve lost that nice pingy latex noise

I predict that you'll be on 25c GP5000 non-tubeless with latex tubes. It is a magical combination. Thank me later.

FWIW Challenge are doing a few models in kits now, pair of tyres for ~€100

What do you weigh?!

75kg, generally have tubed 28mm tyre that's 30mm on a 19mm rim tyre @ ~65psi, might go a bit firmer on the rear up to 70. If the pressure drops between rides to ~60 I don't mind but much lower than that starts to feel 'flat' to me.

Perhaps if I have a bike on narrow 700Cs I want it to feel relatively firm and I'm more used to some tyre bounce on the 650B bike. My old classic /Sunday roadie is on 23s still and that's ok at 95-100psi, I just avoid the rough lanes.

Out of interest are the Rene Herse really that easy to puncture? @shedbrewed you say yours were full of plugs - was that from gravel riding or nails/thorns/glass on UK roads? Anyone else used any?