Just seen this video from a mate riding in fort William. I haven't been to that track in a while but I can imagine the fear and the pain involved in that crash. Certainly made me think about the times I stop to have a look at features on the trails. Thankfully no serious injuries.
I hope that link works.
hmm, yep if you can't ride it get out of there...Stupid place to be
Another way of reading it, don't assume that a track is clear.
Holy crap. Hope your friend is ok.
I once got shot down on here for mentioning a family group that stopped on the hully gully descent at gisburn. That video highlights how dangerous it can be for both parties. Fair enough you might bite off more than you can chew or have a mechanical so need to walk but you really need to be aware of other riders. Hope all involved were ok.
Another way of reading it, don’t assume that a track is clear.
Yeah, walk every section then go back build up speed and ride again, should get you 1 run a day....
Yeah, walk every section then go back build up speed and ride again, should get you 1 run a day….
You still can't assume someone hasn't entered the track. people and animals will stray.
That's a fair point about assuming the trail is clear but isn't that one of the main reasons venues like this are ridden.
You still can’t assume someone hasn’t entered the track. people and animals will stray.
How many DH tracks have you ridden there? If you don't get up to speed on that one you will nail yourself long before that point.
It's a tough one that, just highlights the need to be careful if you are walking a bit of trail.
That bit is totally blind and even at a moderate speed you'll not be able to stop or slow on it.
Knowing the rider involved he won't be pointing the finger of blame but rather making sure it doesn't happen to anyone else. I've tried to explain to people in the past why walking on bike trails isn't a great idea, I'll just show them that video from now on.
you guys really wouldn't like ski pistes
It’s a tough one that, just highlights the need to be careful if you are walking a bit of trail.
Given the pay to play nature I'd have hoped that the operators would be telling people to hit the walk up trail to get around stuff like that.
Glad your mate is ok. Tell him Minnaar crashed into the crowd there one year. so he's in good company.
The folk walking their bikes clearly had no clue how stupid a thing to do this was. Unfortunately DH track ettequate is learned DH racing. You see stuff just as stupid on DH tracks on uplift days all over the country from non racers completely unaware of what the racing lines are.
Gotta assume mrmo has never even been there nevermind ridden the section of track in the video in which case it's probably best not to comment.
I have no idea how you even walk down that bit- first time I rode it, it was only because I couldn't stop. (and I'd never done a DH race, but I didn't have to be told you have to be a total fanny to get in the way of speeding bikes- even when I was riding the track slowly I was watching out for faster riders)
You can't plan for loose cannons, you just have to hope they don't happen to you.
Get off the track the dicks.
Love it how people say "Assume the track isn't clear"
The track is full of blind jumps, that you can't slow down for. How about you simply just don't walk up/down the track based on the fact you know what it's used for.
Probably a couple of guys who've watched the WC and fancied it, hit the road north and found themselves completely out their depth. They can then head over to the Top chief and again show their lack of ability/baws.
Larry
I agree entirely but it isn't quite the whole risk picture. there is an issue with blind trails as to what happens when someone bins it on a run. In a race you have marshalls but I guess that it is not marshalled on public days. So you risk someone landing in the aftermath of another accident. How often that happens I don't know.
On this occasion clearly not somewhere someone should be walking but there's potential for other accident causes there.
I'm emphatically not pointing any figures just an observation on the risks and context to the posts of Mr mo and others.
If you thought of a closed to 'casual users' course being ridden blind at speed, one equivalent would say be doing a track day or a day at the Nurburgring both of which would be marshalled for exactly that possible outcome. Here someone has presumably risk assessed and said risk doesn't dictate that need.
Another way of reading it, don’t assume that a track is clear.
I employ a man to walk ahead of me waving a red flag for just this sort of eventuality.
[rolling eyes smiley][/rolling eyes smiley]
there is an issue with blind trails as to what happens when someone bins it on a run. In a race you have marshalls but I guess that it is not marshalled on public days. So you risk someone landing in the aftermath of another accident.
Absolutely, but an accident is just that, an accident, and all part of riding. The point here is that these buffoons are walking down a section of the track that is the fastest part, and will probably take them a few minute to walk down btw as it's not short.
A simple risk assessment in their red bull addled minds would've surely resulted in them getting off the track (there's a path/other trails either side of the motorway section.
Gotta assume mrmo has never even been there nevermind ridden the section of track in the video in which case it’s probably best not to comment.
No I haven't been there, seen plenty of similar situations, but the point is simple, and as garage-dweller points out, you don't know whether the rider before has crashed. There are reasons why you have marshalls, If you know the track is clear then fine, but if you don't and can't be sure then...
People are idiots, and will do stupid things, it is one of those life lessons you learn, sometimes the painful way. Rider made a judgement that the track would be clear, it wasn't.
Now get HSE involved and what are they going to say about a purpose built track, no marshalls and no control over who uses it? Where are the risk assessments, the evidence of training/compitence etc.
I think anyone who has ridden the track (or even just been there, it's a lot steeper and faster than it looks on TV) agrees that there is pretty much nothing you can do short of going so slow it's not even worth riding.
Absolutely, but an accident is just that, an accident, and all part of riding. The point here is that these buffoons are walking down a section of the track that is the fastest part, and will probably take them a few minute to walk down btw as it’s not short.
Never mind that the have missed/ignored the incredibly obvious walking path down that meets the right hand side of the track at the top of that section.
but the point is simple, and as garage-dweller points out, you don’t know whether the rider before has crashed. There are reasons why you have marshalls, If you know the track is clear then fine, but if you don’t and can’t be sure then…
Sure, we'll just have every DH run in the UK marshalled every weekend
Just have this section of video playing on a loop in the gondola.
they seem to be at the side of the track like they either knew someone fast was coming through and tried to get out his way or they had crashed and were composing themselves before continuing. Every time a faster rider barges through at a trail Centre, mutters some abuse as he passses or posts an Internet thread on trail etiquette he adds to the panic problem that causes the former.
if it was crash recomposition (and if it wasn’t that risk certainly exists) they probably learned something, difficult to know what they could/should have done without knowing the full circumstances and how long they had been lurking there - I can imagine a future where fast downhill sections are controlled by lights and sensors to confirm sections are clear - much like swimming pool flumes!
or they had crashed and were composing themselves before continuing.
If they (all of them??) crashed there they would've landed at the bottom. Bikes pointing down the hill, riders to the side holding the bars, looks like they were simply walking down.
I've had it happen to me probably over 10 years ago. A walker lost his trail and used the DH track. He was able to jump out of the way when I came over the top, the difference seems to be that he was actively looking out for bikes (despite not being a rider) whereas these guys were off the track (just) but had little consideration about why keeping the bikes on the track might be a crap idea.
Larry
I agree entirely but it isn’t quite the whole risk picture
But it is though, it is the whole picture - don't walk up/down a trail, especially the Fort Bill DH track.
Animals are uncontrollable and yes an animal that could cause an incident could stray onto the track, but they don't know better. That's the only scenario that should happen and as all riders we take on that risk, whether you're doing 40mph or 15mph you can still have a nasty crash with one.
I perhaps give too much credit but humans should be able to determine that walking up/down a DH track isn't safe, especially given there are very obvious footpaths at the side and that they're riders themselves, not just random walkers/family.
mrmo - you cannot (and there is no argument) ride a downhill track with the expectation that people will be in the way. I know there's no point trying to persuade someone who has such an impractical view in the first place. But I'm just telling you. It is the duty of the person not riding to get off the track.
If the rider had a bell on his bars that wouldn't have happened. Bloody cyclists, always riding on the footpath and never use a bell.
Blood hell, imagine the furore if it had been a horse on the track!111!!
I perhaps give too much credit but humans should be able to determine that walking up/down a DH track isn’t safe, especially given there are very obvious footpaths at the side and that they’re riders themselves, not just random walkers/family.
You do give too much credit. It's like people who break down in Lane 1 on the motorway and sit in the car waiting for the RAC.
If you're brave and talented enough to be riding blind stuff unmarshalled at that speed, then you just have to roll the dice and hope there isn't another crashed rider/child's face/antelope in the way when the landing comes into view.
You do give too much credit. It’s like people who break down in Lane 1 on the motorway and sit in the car waiting for the RAC.
Na, more like walking in the outside lane, in the dark, dressed like a ninja with a death wish, except it's not you that's gonna get hurt, it's the guy in the car doing 70....
Is that the world cup track? I don't recognise that bit?
wrong thread!
Is that the world cup track? I don’t recognise that bit?
Motorway section, mibbe 20 secs from the end, just at the steep landing with the two wee stepdowns, IIRC.
The fella he hits is getting back on his bike in the middle of the trail and hadn’t looked back before hand, that’s the issue.
then you just have to roll the dice and hope there isn’t another crashed rider/child’s face/antelope in the way when the landing comes into view.
Thats just being a DHer
The fella he hits is getting back on his bike in the middle of the trail and hadn’t looked back before hand, that’s the issue.
Yep, a very selfish place to try and get back on.
I have a mate from Dunedin, NZ, and spent a summer riding all over Scotland with him a couple of years back. He was in utterly perplexed by the mount of people that are stopped, mechanical or otherwise, right in the middle of trails in this country, and tbh he was pretty bang on.
Un-marshalled DH tracks are accidents waiting to happen. Especially on blind sections. It's easy, and makes one feel better to point the finger of blame, but if the stopped rider had crashed rather than been walking, the result would have been no different.
There's no easy answer, you could ride slower, but that's no fun, people could and should be a bit more aware; but TBH that's not always going to happen.
Its the risk you take.
A crash is totally different to some brain-less sheep CHOOSING to walk down a blind section of trail.
I wonder if those blaming the rider were the ones walking their bikes down in the video...
Nobeerinthefridge
I have a mate from Dunedin, NZ, and spent a summer riding all over Scotland with him a couple of years back. He was in utterly perplexed by the mount of people that are stopped, mechanical or otherwise, right in the middle of trails in this country, and tbh he was pretty bang on.
It beggars belief sometimes. I was riding along on a flat section behind a chap a couple of weeks back, who knew I was there, just stopped dead to talk to his mate coming the other way on a parallel track. When I politely asked if I could squeeze past, he got the right hump. Same ride, another chap who's stopped, looks over his shoulder on a quickish down section, sees me coming and pulls out, bringing me to a halt!
Back to the thread, I've never been to Fort Bill but you certainly have to commit to something like that, so those that are saying slow down, good luck with that!
Didn't recognise that bit of the track at all and have ridden it only last year!
Sure, but the end result is often the same. No one plans to be an idiot or have a crash. Its just something you have to be aware of when you're on track as much as you can.
If you want to stop and walk a section then keep to the side of the track. Its a world class downhill track, you have to expect riders will be flying down there all day long. And as a rider you have to be ready to react to hazards on the track, but given the speeds and the blind jumps you have just do the best you can; a group of riders mincing around on the track right after a jump doesn't give you many options.....
I had the misfortune of coming across someone walking down a steep section on the Crows Nest at Dunkeld just as I entered it. Put my foot down as I tried to slow down mid section and snapped my Achilles. The guy apologised and cycled off
Rucksacks on a World cup course no surprise there.
Gutted for your mate.
I've had to bail due to idiots walking on trails before and then I got run over!
I'm amazed we havn't had a "It's Scotland - they have every right to be anywhere" response yet - which is what I got when I met some blokes doing Kirrochtree black backwards 🙁
Do Nevis have any riders on course as bike patrol? Few other places around the world have this which does help to spot and educate those out of their depth. If anything does come from this I hope that they have some very visible ride rules up there - the current code of conduct isn't that good.
But if you are a group and you have an accident somewhere like that getting a rider up to the nearest sight line to stop/slow other riders is a top priority if you are not clearing off the track quickly.
It's a dh track, get out the road ya fools!
Do Nevis have any riders on course as bike patrol?
I bumped into a bike patrol guy at the end of a day a few years back. Had to wait for him to ensure he got down ok, seemed miles out of his comfort zone!
@mrmo "probably best not to comment..."
blah blah blah..."People are idiots, and will do stupid things, it is one of those life lessons you learn, sometimes the painful way"....
*keyboard expertise*
blah blah blah...
Uh huh... 😉
