[Closed] Why wouldn’t you want to put a CCDB on a Lapierre Spicy 2011?

Colour clash?

CCDB would go lovely on a Spicy, 5, Heckler etc etc brilliant rear shock

because of the large amount of money it would cost?

My mate had one on his spicy....."Awesome" being the word to describe it

So apart from price are there any down sides?

Weight?

Confusing array of adjustments?

+1 on the confusing array of adjustments.

My guess is that mere mortals wouldn't fully understand exactly what they were doing and therefore not use the shock to its full potential.

Any idea what the leverage curve looks like?

Normally if a frame is designed for an air shock (which the spicy comes with), the leverage ratio ramps up at the end of the travel to battle the ramp up in spring stiffness in an air spring.

The normal result of running a coil on a air designed frame is that you end up having to have a firmer ride to avoid bottoming out on good sized hits.

Obviously there are exceptions based on rider, if the rider is light, going coil will help them get full travel. Also if the rider is a mincer, running too much travel for how they use the bike, it will help them obtain that "plush" feeling and get full travel.

I don't recommend it if you're heavier than average or do a bit of proper 160mm riding, ie actually riding some proper DH, not just trail centre descents.

Because the stock Fox is great?

My guess is that mere mortals wouldn't fully understand exactly what they were doing and therefore not use the shock to its full potential.

Compression and rebound 😯

How would we cope?

I know, crazy but true.

deanfbm why would you not recommend it for riding DH?

deanfbm why would you not recommend it for riding DH?

Because he doesn't have the slightest clue what he is on about.

Its not that confusing, the manual explains it very well!

Do it, its the best upgrade you will do! I get on really well with mine (not on a spicy) pedals great absorbs the smallest of bumps takes the big hits with so much smoothness, it never seems to feel out of it depth the only downsides are the cost and weight however i feel the weight is worth it for the performance.

Dave.

Does the CCDB have any sort of lockout/propedal? If it doesn't, then I wouldn't- either the bike gets ridden up hills and I'd regret not having it, or, the bike doesn't get ridden up hill and I'd sell it and get a bigger bike.

^LOL flow, please get some understanding before you comment.

I recommend the cane creek for DH riding on the correct bike.

The shock isn't the defining factor in suspension action, it's a relationship between the linkage design, spring type and damping. If one of these features isn't correct, then the whole system isn't going to work correctly.

A xc bike isn't going to turn into a good bike for DH by simply changing the shock is it?

I say using a cane creek coil on a spicy (dependant on the suspension design) isn't for DH because you'll be bottoming on any good hit unless you run a really stiff spring, then you'll lose any bump sensitivity.

flow - TBH dean does sound like he has a massively better idea about how suspension works than you.
I wouldn't want a CCDB on my DH bike, but then I actually know why 😉

Northwind, It doesn't have a pro pedal lever or anything like that, its just that you can dial in the LSC and also the LS Dampening too so you can make very fine adjustments to how the LSC works and its the same for the HSC and HSD. So you can make it pedal well but not at the expense of small bump sensitivity.

GW - to be fair you don't know much about anything, zip it.

Dean - I have heard of people running CCDB on Fives (essentially an XC bike) and it turning them into a DH monster.

The fact that it isolates high and low speed compression, and high and low speed rebound makes infinitely adjustable, and just because a frame is designed around an air shock, doesn't mean it wouldn't work well or better with a CCDB.

They feel a bit 'lifeless' regardless of set up. Not so good for 'play' type riding,popping off stuff and such. It will make an already very capable bike even more so,and will make a mockery of most trails !

Rorschach very good point about the pop, i ought to have mentioned that. The dampening is so controlled with the double barrel shock body that it doesn't pop like a Vanilla or DHX etc, its a strange feeling at first but you do get used to it quickly.

😆 def getting a very big ATG&NI vibe from you Flow.

and just because a frame is designed around an air shock, doesn't mean it wouldn't work well or better with a CCDB.

*I don't know either (but I do know for my own bikes)

Meh, it's not going to make you any quicker or hit stuff you wouldn't have before.

Save the money, or spend it on one of those skills course things, unless your name is Vouilloz.

If the jewellery fork & shock manufacturers (BOS/CCDB) were really that much of a game changer, all the Pro's would be riding them, regardless of contractual obligations. That's what black marker pens are for.

I have CCDB and I have used on various bikes, including my old spicy, get the right spring and use the low rebound and compression damping to control the pedallin

NOTE: Always adjust the low compression and rebound damping together to certain degree...too much of either screws up the shock performance

Iirc the spicey leverage curve is slightly regressive at the end of the stroke ,which helps with getting full travel with an air shock.I certainly had no trouble getting the o-ring to the bottom on the demo bike I rode last week.I ended up running a bit less sag than would have liked.Anyhoo with a more linear coil shock you might end up running quite a lot of hs compression damping to help support the bike at full travel.
They have changed the leverage curve on the 2012 models to make them a little more progressive.

spoil sport 😛

Iirc the spicey leverage curve is slightly regressive at the end of the stroke ,which helps with getting full travel with an air shock

no it would allow an air shock (progressive by nature) to reach full travel easier

You got me thinking now!Will run of to find a pencil and start scribbling linkage diagrams.I think I've got the lapierre set up on 'linkage' on my laptop.

GW - to push an air shock to full travel you need to compress it fully

How could reducing the leverage/effective force applied to it by the suspension allow that ?

hold on - maybe I get it now ...

goes off to scratch head

think I'm confusing wheel travel and shock travel

Where's loco.
He,ll end this once and for all 😉
He tuned up my dhx5 coil with Ti for my spicy and it,s bloody amazing. 😀

boxxer7 - Member

Northwind, It doesn't have a pro pedal lever or anything like that, its just that you can dial in the LSC and also the LS Dampening too so you can make very fine adjustments to how the LSC works and its the same for the HSC and HSD. So you can make it pedal well but not at the expense of small bump sensitivity.

That's always going to be a compromise though. Course, you can twiddle the knobs between a climbing and descending setting with any shock but it's easier to do with propedal (or similiar). I'm liking the Van RC that's in my trailbike just now but if it didn't have a simple pedal mode/not pedal mode adjustment it'd never have been fitted in the first place.

huge? 😕
No probably nowhere near as much as you're thinking NW

I ninja-edited that realising I was talking bollocks 😉

Northwind - Member

I ninja-edited that realising I was talking bollocks

the stw way 🙂 🙂

Right.Cos of boyles law (pressure increases as the square of volume) air shocks need a much higher lever ratio (linkage)in the last part of the travel to make sure they achieve full travel.
Coil shock are linear and so can have a flatter linkage lever ratio curve.
Well it makes sense to me!

Damn straight.

Having said that, not talking here about a "descending mode that pedals well", but an outright "climbing on a heavy bike, don't want to even feel the squish" setting- and if you can get that without sacrificing the ride quality while descending on one setting I'll be beyond amazed tbh.

Robhughes- What's your riding style/locations/weight? How would you describe how you like your setup to feel?

If the answers are similar to the OPs, then that's game/set/match for this thread then.

Or if Loco comes in obviously since he'll know all the information required then.

rorsh - your english is letting you down 😕

I wouldn't bother with one unless you are using it for downhill and are already used to a shock with lots of adjustments already. I've had one on a dh bike for a few years and have had the luxury of being able to swap out a fox unit to compare. I also can afford to stick on my xc bike but haven't bothered as it's overkill and they weigh a ton. There are very few xc trails that really could justify a bike with anything more than what Mr Fox provides with your bike in my opinion as someone who has one of the bloody shocks...

NW - what are you talking about here? climbing on a DH bike or climbing on a med travel all rounder set-up to descend well?

Main reason I don't put one one is because there's an air one on the way.

ran a CCDB on my Helius AM for about 2.5 years.

eventually conceded it needed a custom shIm AND INCREASED N2 precharge [for pop] as it was lifeless and prone to pack down irrespective of decreased rebound damping.

eventually, STENDEC managed to sort it out, but from now on, I'll be riding air shocks on trail bikes.

CCDB for DH makes sense however as the impact speeds / aggression are exCERBATED.

deanfbm
Iv,e used the spicy for near enough everything from DH up at inners and fort bill to my local trail stuff and trail centers in scotland a wales.
It was great before i gave it to simon at loco as i used a 300 spring for DH and a 350 for xc.
I then bought a 325 Ti and sent it off for a tune specifically for the spicy curve rate,my weight and enduro style of riding.
He performed voodoo magic on it and it came back a completely different shock with the compression and rebound circuits changed.
In my opinion the dhx5 made the stock rp2 seem the completely wrong shock to put on a spicy.
The difference in how the bike rides is just unreal compared to the rp2.
If it makes any sense it,s plusher and firmer at the same time.
Did they stick it there because of costs.
If you jump over onto the lapierre forum there,s loads of stuff about this.
It was made for a coil. 😉

In my defence I've done 80miles today in gale force 10 and am 3/4's asleep on the sofa!
It's my excuse and Im sticking to it.

Cheers Rob, it was only a bit of porting and an arrangement of shims to match the linkage characteristics of the bike and weight of the spring. 😀
The DHX has the IFP pressure and volume adjuster (boost valve and bottom out) as well which could be used to control the bottom out/end of stroke performance of the shock too, which is something worth bearing in mind when anybody sets their one of these shocks.

Loco, what are your thoughts on a ccdb on a spicy?

I don't have a spicy but i stuck a ccdb on my 5 and it transformed the bike, it's better up ( despite the considerable weight over an rp23 ) and massively better in the rough stuff on the way down. So good in fact I got rid of my other bikes, this thing does everything brilliantly be it mincing round trail centers or mincing dh uplift days or mincing all day alps rides. ( disclaimer; i am a fat git and slow uphill anyway ).

If the CCDB if setup correctly it should work nicely, have fitted various coil shocks on the Spicys with good results

I don't have a spicy but i stuck a ccdb on my 5 and it transformed the bike, it's better up ( despite the considerable weight over an rp23 ) and massively better in the rough stuff on the way down. So good in fact I got rid of my other bikes, this thing does everything brilliantly be it mincing round trail centers or mincing dh uplift days or mincing all day alps rides

That can't be right RJ, you must be making it up 😆

of what is this [i]suspension[/i] that you talk 😯

Does the spicy have have a linkage to manipulate the spring rate in the same way as SC APP bikes?' I have a Butcher spoke to Simon at Loco about the problem of reaching full travel as my Float ramps up at the end, which it is supposed to do, however I would like t have a bit more travel out of it, Simon suggested some Shims in the Shim stack..... May try that first or would I get a better result going to a coil like a Van R tuned for me and my bike?

Yer Yer Yer loco.
We all know about your witchcraft.
How many eyes of toad and wings of bat did it take to sort mine out.. 😉