[Closed] Why the e-bike hate??

There will always be people who hate to see other people get something easy that they have personally had to work hard for or put effort in to.  In this case it's probably people who feel they have put effort into improving fitness for cycling or skills for Strava times and they see people out on ebikes as a threat to them. Getting cycling easy instead of working for it.

It's the same across loads of other things.  In fishing the people who class themselves as purist anglers hate on people who fish commercial heavily sticked ponds, in gaming people gamers hate people who buy their way to higher levels and unlock high level attributes.  It's the same as people who hate on mtbers who only ride trail centers as they aren't real cyclist if the don't use maps and ride across moors and shit.

I'd love to get en ebike.  I'm not lesser abled, I am a bit lazy though.  But they seem great fun.

I’d agree after a few points on here that people being upset by being passed by an ebike is probably fairly complex but will basically boils down to feeling like an attack on your virility (for want of a better word). It’s probably quite similar in nature to the rage some drivers feel when cyclists pass them in traffic or prevent them doing what they want by ‘being in the way’.

One thing that strikes me about these e-bike debates is that people expressing often moderate and considered reservations about them are dismissed as 'haters,' with language such as low IQ, lacking in intelligence, jealous, stupid and the like being applied to them. Interesting.

You don't see roadies on e-bikes, and it's not because of 'lack of intelligence' or limited speeds. It's because there's an underlying ethos to their chosen activity. Same with climbing - you'd be laughed out of the pub if you claimed a successful ascent having done it with a top rope on (in fact, a better analogy might be 'having chipped out some extra holds to make the climb easier'). As somebody who's been mountain biking for 28 years, it pains me to admit it, but mountain biking seems to have failed to develop any underlying ethos. It's just an exercise in consumption. And maybe that's OK, depends on your standpoint I suppose.

But what about gears? What about suspension? Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout...? This is sophistry. I don't hate e-bikes (my sister commutes on one). Mild dismissal of physically able people choosing to ride them? Yeah, possibly.

A) because 20yr olds can't appreciate the physical limitations that may occur in 50/60 yr old bodies

I have a 50 year old body. Part of the ageing process is coming to terms with that fact, and training to use what you still have to its best advantage.

You don’t see roadies on e-bikes,

Yes, you do.

You don’t see roadies on e-bikes,

I think that would depend on your definition of "roadie". For those doing touring and the like I think they are creeping in much the same as for mountain biking. Those who want to race less so but then again you dont tend to see the serious xc lot on e-bikes either to my knowledge.

Same with climbing

Climbers tend to be fairly relaxed about how they get to the interesting part of the day out though.  Same could be said of some ebike riders.

Also there are several traditions in climbing. For example suggest bolting Stanage.

I live in Cheddar. Even the fat old guys wobbling their way up the gorge on Sunday club runs have the nuts to do it without the help of an engine.

Bolting is about protection, I guess, rather than actively making a climb easier. How would people feel about someone using the anchors to pull up on?

bigwill

...Most those in their 20’s  30’s and early 40s that rant on at how terrible they are will by the time they are in their 50s, maybe sooner, be either buying one, be e-curious or have buggered off and taken up golf.

Look around you when you're in your 20s, and if just one of your mates is still on a bike in their 60s, you'll be lucky.

eBikes may change that, and keep people fitter and more motivated to ride.

anyone mentioned brexit yet?

Love my ebikes - use the hybrid one to do all my shopping around town. Sometimes use with a burley trailer to do a big shop - i'd hardly be able to move it without the ebike. Only downside is the weight of the bike which is formidable. Quite interested in the new orbea gains - they do not have as much assistance as the bosch powered ones but weigh close to 11kgs (claimed).

As for my cube 29er bosch cx it's a monster off road coping much better with deep mud than pedal power alone. It's great fun.

psycorp

As long as the emergence of ebikes doesn’t create issues with trail access for non-motorised bikes, or hinder the prospects for greater trail access for non-motorised bikes I don’t have any strong feelings, about them or their riders, one way or the other.

However I (sort of- edit Poopy)don’t consider riding a mountain bike and riding an ebike to be the same thing though.

You just typed exactly what my attitude is, thanks! Apart from my tiny edit. Lol

I certainly wouldn't be offish with anyone because they chose to ride one. There is enough angst in this world already for Lords sake! 😩

Compared to the commentators on Pinkbike, everyone on STW seems pretty relaxed about them.

As someone who regularly gets passed on up hill sections and is usually the last one to the top, on or off road. I wouldn't be bothered at all being overtaken by someone on an E-bike. In fact I'd welcome it! it's the cheery ****ing roadies who try and start a conversation up while i'm struggling for breath that piss me off. I can barely managed a hello....

I haven't ever ridden an E-bike but would give one a go. probably wouldn't buy one as they are pretty expensive for a good one.

mountain biking seems to have failed to develop any underlying ethos. It’s just an exercise in consumption. And maybe that’s OK, depends on your standpoint I suppose.

On a wider point I think this is true. As a group it's too much of golf type activity for many. As a group there is a very limited community compared to other  outdoors or action sports.

You don’t see roadies on e-bikes, and it’s not because of ‘lack of intelligence’ or limited speeds. It’s because there’s an underlying ethos to their chosen activity.

Erm, while there's a grain of truth there, you have to consider that the 15mph limiter makes them pretty useless for fast road riding.

but mountain biking seems to have failed to develop any underlying ethos.

Fancy words but I think you really mean MTB has become something that you don't feel part of?

@montgomery - Re: bolting climbs - don't go there, really, don't go there! 🙂

While a few in the climbing/walking fraternity are of the "I can do what I like and hang the consequences", it appears much more prevalent in the mountain biking world.

@dissonance - serious XC types on e-bikes. Alan Goldsmith explicitly states no e-bikes for the HT550 group start.

E-bikes might make sense at somewhere like BPW rather than using the up-lift service. Complete speculation as I've never been.

One person I know with an e-bike has it because he's been told not to strain his heart so makes sense for him. He's also approaching 70 and was keeping up with the group anyway.

If someone's on an eBike, they're not a "roadie" or a "mountain biker" - they're an eBiker! This is [i]not[/i] a negative comment, just a fact.

I'll put my hand up and say I have an irrational dislike of them.

I guess I see them as just being a bit lazy if I'm honest, but that maybe more around why I ride bikes and how I've always ridden them than anything logical. I've always felt you have to earn your turns, take the pain going up hill to get the pleasure going down. It also feels a bit too "easy" and as society moves towards instant gratification this feels like another step towards this. It feel like people want the fun ying without the yang, and that doesn't sit well with me. Saying all that i am aware that ultimately we're all just adults playing on bikes so I know I should not care what bike someone else rides as long as they're having fun.

I have thought about how I would react if one of my group bought one. My instinct is the following:

Would I take the 'P' out of them? yes, unless they had underlying medical issues that meant it was the only way they could keep riding.

Would I try and get mega fit to beat then up the climbs anyway? oh yes.

Would I plans lots of rides that involved lifting said bikes over stiles? yes, of course.

And would said rides involve the odd bit of false flat where you can go 15mph plus slightly up hill? yep, that too.

So yeah, not for me, I can see why people would like them, but I can't get my head round liking or accepting them. Sorrry.

So what are the negatives? Strava is now meaningless? Oh well.

my only issue with e-bikes, particularly when used by those less able/medically fit etc.. is that I've seen a few in quite remote places, which is ace. However the old mountaineer in me, has always been for self sufficiency and self rescue.  If you are out and about on the moors with an e'bike and it dies/suffers a mechanical, you are left with a potentially unfit/medically challenged person with a 40lb plus bike and an inability to get home. This then potentially becomes a drain on Mountain rescue teams to go and get them.

*For lazy buggers using them because they are fat and unfit, well man the F-Up get pedaling some more and actually get some fitness benefits of cycling rather than being a passenger on an electric motocross bike. You wouldn't use a mobility scooter to pop to the shops because waddling along to buy a gregs sausage roll is a bit of bother would you?!

*had to put that bit in, it was all seeming a bit too reasoned and polite 🙂

As somebody who’s been mountain biking for 28 years, it pains me to admit it, but mountain biking seems to have failed to develop any underlying ethos. It’s just an exercise in consumption. And maybe that’s OK, depends on your standpoint I suppose.

Interesting point, but I think the activities are too different to be compared like that.  Rock climbing is about hands and feet on rock, technique, strength and endurance. It's a purer activity to start with. "Can you climb that climb, that grade?  What about that one?" the simpler the aims, the simpler the argument about whether you're doing it right or not.  the tech is there for safety, not to make it easier*.

Whereas there are dozens of reasons that people have for cycling, so it's very hard to point to someone and tell them they're doing it "wrong".  Also, the development of cycling has always been about going faster, more easily and more safely (and though safety improvements generally results in going faster, but keeping same risk of crashing as before)

Wheels get you there quicker and more easily than walking, pedals quicker still, bigger wheels even quicker, chain drive and a gear safer and/or quicker, pneumatic tyres safer and more comfortable, gears quicker and easier, suspension and fat tyres and disc brakes safer, quicker, easier...

... batteries and an engine?

* yes there's aid climbing, but generally it's there to make things possible, rather than easier.  You're not going to turn up at Stanage and aid up Hollybush Crack.  Probably.

...challenged person with a 40lb plus bike and an inability to get home. This then potentially becomes a drain on Mountain rescue teams to go and get them.

Do what they do in La Grave when someone fails to follow advice and needs a heli rescue (free to rescuee, paid for by local's taxes).  Tell them they the need to leave skis behind because of weight on the heli.  Then drop the guides office a note saying there's a pair of newish katanas at the top of the abseil into couloir "".