[Closed] Why the e-bike hate??

Again?

Again

suspected it might of been covered, but everything I’d seen was from the anti lobby. I may well be behind the curve though. In other news - what about these 27.5 wheels??? 😜😜😜

The issue here is nothing to do with bikes and everything to do with various people's bad attitudes and bellendery.  HTH.

The issue here is nothing to do with bikes and everything to do with various people’s bad attitudes and bellendery. HTH.

i think you’ve probably cut to the nub if the issue there, and I’ve been over thinking it! Dickheads will always be dickheads!

Nobody in the real actual world has ever said anything negative to me about riding an ebike.

the only hate i ever see is on the internet.

Haterz gonna hate, it doesn’t matter what they hate, but they gotta.

For me there’s two issues.

1) We’re a competive bunch, I think most people can accept another rider having a lighter bike or a newer biker etc as it’s all pretty marginal - but another rider having 4 or 5 times the power because of a motor! And these people are free to use Strava without a leper badge! Unthinkable.

2) We’ve been ‘burned’ before - no one asked for bigger wheels, no one asked for more gears, frankly I don’t recall anyone asking for carbon, what started as a rare ‘halo’ thing usually becomes the norm in a year or two and a year or two later the old way doesn’t exist anymore. At the moment E-Bikes are rare, but the industry is throwing a lot at them at the moment. What was a tool for the sick and the infirm, soon became the tool for the unfit - why put a few years in getting cycle fit when you can pay Bosch or Yamaha for it and much, much more now and now it’s evolving into a ‘fun alternative’ “it’s not about being easier, it’s about going further in the same time” - maybe next year all the new top bikes will be ebikes and we all know where that goes.

I won’t worry until they come up with the badge for the old-normal - when they start calling bikes “analog bikes” or “mechanical bikes” or whatever we’re in trouble.

Like any new tech it will be divisive. And some will be more vehement and vocal in their opinions than others 😉

Personally I'm not a big fan (threads passim), but I do see their value for some riders, and I think eventually they'll end up being a stunted branch in the evolutionary tree of bikes.

I'm seeing more and more out on the trails recently, and as long as they're ridden in the same manner we'd expect from all members of our cycling fraternity then all well and good. The issues start to arise when you see deregulated or DIY machines out and about, which again I've seen quite a few of recently. Some bad apples may ruin it for the majority.

It is of course possible to think e-bikes (except for those who ride them for medical reasons) are really shit without being a bellend; you just need to be more subtle about how you express those feelings.

Need a set of disclaimers on your helmet -

Old

Heart disease

Lung disease

Missing limb

Fat

Unfit

I could tick most of them....

I’m rehabilitating a fractured ankle, i doubt i will be riding much apart from my ebike this year, as i just have no power in my right leg after 3 months laid up.

ebikes are very useful tools, but not the be all and end all, i for one would rather ride a normal bike. But i also don’t want to ride the dogshit infested trails which are within easy reach of a car park. I think cost will stop them becoming truly mainstream, mine was £3.3k, but has normal xt kit, not exactly exotic.

I reckon the young uns who were complaining would still be saying the same if the older guys were racing whippets on steel hardtails who (metaphorically) assraped them up hill.

It is of course possible to think e-bikes (except for those who ride them for medical reasons) are really shit without being a bellend; you just need to be more subtle about how you express those feelings.

See this is the view view I don’t get. And apologies for singling you out @chickman, and I’ve not idea if your comment is a firmly held belief or slightly younger in cheek - but you were the last comment and easy to use as a counterpoint......

howver, when I go back to the fatherland (mid Wales) I ride with guys 15-20 younger than me, far fitter and most of them infinitely more talented (a couple of them hold their own as privateers on the ews circuit), but roughly 3/4 have bought e-bikes to fit in more trails and down hills in the time they have available.

If you can cover 50% more trail in the same time than on an “analog” bike, what’s not to love??

why do people think it’s ok for “medical reasons” and not just think - yay, I get more trail in???

also means my 68 dad (who’s properly raced, shredded and broken mtb’s from the mid 80’s onwards) can still come out for a ride with his son. And when he wants something ‘gentler’ can go out on his 5010 (which for a pensioner he’s still pretty damn rapid on!)

I won’t worry until they come up with the badge for the old-normal – when they start calling bikes “analog bikes” or “mechanical bikes” or whatever we’re in trouble.

I think the modern idiom is 'non-binary'.

Mopeds eh?

I'll be back to comment in the morning.

Only from poor people who can't afford one.

The issue here is nothing to do with bikes and everything to do with various people’s bad attitudes and bellendery.

Yep, exactly that.  I get held up by people, I get overtaken by people - so what and who cares what type of bike they are on.

Strictly speaking e bikes are kind of a form of cheating if comparing directly to a ‘normal’ bike.

Why you’d care is another thing entirely. The only thing that goes through my mind when someone cruises past me on a climb and I get to wondering and the pros and cons of a motor assisted bike is that I’d miss the extra work! That and “one less car on the road”.

I don't let it bother me when im out on the e-bike

Tend to ignore any comments or just smile at them

If i feel like replying to their comment i just say well im having more fun than you on the climbs or my favourite is to point at the battery and show them its turned off as i pass them

People who say its cheating have never spent time on one, yes you can make it easier/more fun but you can also make it harder and more of a challenge

Mine is controlled by an app so i can make it a real workout (much harder than a normal mtb) or set it up to blast round the trail and just have pure fun!

If I had £5.5k spare, Id be the spesh Kenevo in an instant, but I dont so I will continue to cycle my analogue bike up hill.

The only thing I'd worry about with an e bike would be the weight on the descents and running out of battery in the ass end of nowhere, I would not care for the opinion of anyone else!

The weight on the descents isnt really noticeable its on the twisty stuff i tend to find my spesh Levo e bike just isnt as good as my non e-bike but it makes up for that on the climbs

As for the battery thing, it all depends on how many miles you do and what settings you use to how many miles you can get out of it, you can even get extra batteries that fit into the bottle cage that give you half the power of the standard battery

Directly after us a group of guys in their mid 50’s/60’s over take them and us on e-bikes

us middle aged men stop at the top to let the blowing out the arse subside, let the the 20 year old pass and the e-bikers.

?? Your story doesn't hold up. The e-bikers were already past you.

Trailwagger - a comprehension fail from you, I am afraid 🙂

A % of people are ****s.

This can be exhibited by riding inconsideratly.

This can mean too fast past pedestrians, riding instructor a inappropriate place or manor. Lots of different ways.

Ebikes lower the barrier to entry to get more people to the places and speeds required to make extreme *ary.( I know they are limited to 15mph but very few non e bike riders reach 15 mph on the flat or uphill for a significant amount of time.) In addition if you don't have to put the effort in you almost don't realise the speed you are going. More likely to inadvertently be a ****.

More ebikes => more ****s on the trails acting at higher levels of *ary by virtue of the lower barriers to entry.

For the hard of thinking I am not saying that all ebike riders are ****s. I am saying it's easier for ****s to go off road ebiking than MTBing, it's easier for the ****s to act more of a ****. Finally it's easier for non ****s to act a little ***ish unintentionally.

I am however all for ebikes to help with utility / cargo cycling and get more people commuting.

My reading of this is that the young blokes were put in a bad mood by being overtaken by a bunch of middle-aged blokes on 160mm travel full suspension bikes, but took it out on the E-bikes because "cheating".

I have no problem with E-bikes, until the buggers start up with 'can't you go any faster?' as they cruise past me. 🙂

Trailwagger – a comprehension fail from you, I am afraid 🙂

I know its Monday and early, but how so?

E-bikes?! What is this? A new and exciting innovation in the world of mountain biking?? Is E for exercise? Entertainment? Evangelist? Exceptional? Electronical? I've not heard of this before. I must go and do some reading up. Or maybe have a lie down.

On last year's YD200 I was climbing out of Bouthwaite in Nidderdale and there was a big group of MTBs at the bottom gate. They opened the gate for me, very kind, and I was trying to clean the climb for the first time when a couple of them zipped past - I didn't realise they were on e-bikes until they were level with me. Having cleaned the hard bit, the only problem was that they didn't leave the next gate open for me, but it did mean I got a breather. The rest of the group were on human powered bikes.

I'll admit to being old-school: the effort of going uphill is part of cycling unless you've a medical reason (oscillatory Plumbago excepted)

A % of people are ****s.

This can be exhibited by riding inconsideratly.

This can mean too fast past pedestrians, riding instructor a inappropriate place or manor. Lots of different ways.

Ebikes lower the barrier to entry to get more people to the places and speeds required to make extreme ****ary.( I know they are limited to 15mph but very few non e bike riders reach 15 mph on the flat or uphill for a significant amount of time.) In addition if you don't have to put the effort in you almost don't realise the speed you are going. More likely to inadvertently be a ****.

More ebikes => more ****s on the trails acting at higher levels of ****ary by virtue of the lower barriers to entry.

For the hard of thinking I am not saying that all ebike riders are ****s. I am saying it's easier for ****s to go off road ebiking than MTBing, it's easier for the ****s to act more of a ****. Finally it's easier for non ****s to act a little ****ish unintentionally.

I am however all for ebikes to help with utility / cargo cycling and get more people commuting.

It doesn't bother me as I mostly ride on my own, but talking with my brother who has one of these things I realised that, if you ride in a group and a few get e-bikes, it does put pressure on the rest of the group to get one too, otherwise you just can't keep up.

I think fears of them being pushed on us by manufacturers and taking over are probably unfounded though. They are not allowed in races and the "best bikes" in any manufacturer's range (and therefore the ones we lust over) will always be driven by what the racers use.

I read the other day that e-bikes had been banned in Washington State on anything other than paved roads/trails.

TheBrick sums it up quite nicely.

I think fears of them being pushed on us by manufacturers and taking over 

Who has this fear??! Brilliant! 😆

Trailwagger – a comprehension fail from you, I am afraid 🙂
I know its Monday and early, but how so?

Still waiting for this one to be explained to me. Someone help me out, its frying my Monday morning brain!

I've personally got no issue with them at all, but for what I want out of an MTB at least, they're not it.

Few things I want to resolve in terms of myself, are improve my own skill, and improve my fitness.  Getting on something that I can throw up hill and down dale with relative ease might get me out further, but it won't necesarilly improve my skill or get me fitter, because I WILL use assist to get up hills that if I'd worked a bit harder I'd likely manage.

So, why the hate?, well it could be just for the reasons I've stated.  If you've spent your time and energy getting better on the bike, and getting fitter, you might find that someone with a bigger wallet being able to do the same without the work in to do it is frustrating.  It's likely that they don't have the experience or skill (and that's a massive generalisation, because I know not all e-Bike riders fall into that category) that you've learned with hard work, blood sweat and time on the bike.

Then there's the weight.  They're not exaclty light and as such they will do more to churn up already winter beaten trails, perhaps.. I dunno.  That's managable at bike parks, you charge a bit more for the sort of extra damage that an e-Bike might inflict, but public accessiable stuff perhaps not so easy to manage.. altought we share most trails that we use with horses and sometimes motorised bikes and cars, so that's probably less valid.

As I said, I've got zero issues, people should ride what they enjoy and keep enjoying it.  I'd consider an e-Bike if I had a spare few quid more but I'd consider something more road/hybrid focused as I'd likely use it for commuting over pleasure.

How do we feel about e-bikes if we cross out e-bikes and write gears?  Do you get cross when someone on a 2x11 beats your singlespeed Strava record?  Eg,

Strictly speaking e bikes are kind of a form of cheating if comparing directly to a ‘normal’ bike.

Strictly speaking gears are kind of a form of cheating if comparing directly to a ‘normal’ bike.

The only thing I’d worry about with an e bike would be the weight on the descents and running out of battery in the ass end of nowhere,

You know they still have pedals, right?

Still waiting for this one to be explained to me

I think you'll find it's simply a case of badly written bollocks.

Take what TheBrick said, and add it to what P-Jay said, and you have the answer to the OP's question.

I would happily use an eBike around town as an alternative to a car, but I can not imagine using one as replacement for a proper bike. In other words, there is no doubt they have their place; the problem comes when they start getting confused with entirely human-powered bikes.

This is something I genuinely fear.

Who has this fear??! Brilliant! 😆

See post from P-Jay above:

maybe next year all the new top bikes will be ebikes and we all know where that goes.

"So, why the hate?, well it could be just for the reasons I’ve stated.  If you’ve spent your time and energy getting better on the bike, and getting fitter, you might find that someone with a bigger wallet being able to do the same without the work in to do it is frustrating...."

you could say that about anyone on a more expensive lighter/better/more suspension bike, you've always been able to buy performance at some level or other

"Then there’s the weight.  They’re not exaclty light and as such they will do more to churn up already winter beaten trails, perhaps.. I dunno."

there's no evidence for this, and if we go down this route are we prepared to settle on a maximum combined bike + rider weight, because there are some people on normal bikes heavier than others on their e-bike

A) because 20yr olds cant appreciate the physical limitations that may occur in 50/60 yr old bodies

B) because 'pinkbike comments'

Well I for one wish I'd had an e-bike yesterday after trudging through all the gloop that off piste Cannock could chuck at me for 3 hours. Would have made it far more enjoyable.

It was still enjoyable but far too knackering for my liking.

Oh, and this -

A) because 20yr olds cant appreciate the physical limitations that may occur in 50/60 yr old bodies

I’m not sure why regular e-mtb’s get hated on although I can see plenty of openings that might lead to such feelings when the red mist is down.  We’re a pretty tribal lot where kit is concerned.  It maybe helps that I don’t give a rat’s about Strava leaderboards.

Personally, they concern me when modified either with throttles or general ‘dongling’ mostly because they have potential in that state to cause problems for the good work of advocacy groups and tar all MTB’s with the same brush in the minds of anti-bike campaigners.   I understand that all ebikes are not modified and such modification is illegal anyway and someone who’s going to do that is going to be a bellend anyway- and obviously this is something that is a specifically English problem in terms of Access rights.  In general, they don’t really bother me.

I’ve been considering the Orbea cx-ish ebike as a commute aid, I do 12 hour back to back shifts and spending an hour on the bike each end of that doesn’t fill me with enthusiasm and so I’ve basically stopped commuting by bike but miss it. I like that the Orbea is so subtle with a hub mounted motor not the usual fugly B.B. thing and a concealed battery in the tubes but that’s aesthetics.  An e-mtb would add nothing to my enjoyment of the sport and so doesn’t interest me.

I don't hate e-bikes per-se. My parents have them for bumbling round cyclepaths on, my OH has one for commuting.

I do object to their growing presence at trail centers and other honeypots.

You're not all old*/disabled/injured you're just lazy.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">They've reached a point of saturation where I no longer pull over on a trail to let someone pass without listening for the tell tale whine first, if you're on an e-bike you can dam well wait, I've earned this descent or I'll struggle more than you to get going again on a climb!</span>

*and be honest 50 isn't old, its probably average in most roadie club runs and I've ridden with guys in their late 70s who still kicked arse downhill.

It's mainly jealousy.

I’ve had my arse handed to me by an 80 yearold roadie climbing Winnats Pass. Age is no barrier to fitness. He said he’d been climbing that a couple of times a week since he was a child...

Almost all objections to ebikes are born of a lack of intelligence.

The objections and their counter points have been well covered in other threads.

I’d disagree unless you hold that all ebikes remain in the legal condition in which they’re sold, which is naive in my experience.

In general, I have nothing against them though.

"You are only old when you use age as an excuse." Joe Friel

As someone in good health and for whom 60 is rapidly (well the same speed as everyone else) approaching I see no need to get an e-bike. A change in circumstance and that view might differ.

for me im a fat middle aged very unfit bloke. Anything that anyone has different to me is cheating,

27.5 rims .... cheating

different rubber .... cheating

29ers .... cheating

being fit .... cheating

in short its all cheating. e bikes are no different and im not willing to give them a free pass at being ridiculed 🙂

Anyone on the same bike as me and finding it easier ive probably got the wrong air in my tires that day...

As someone in good health and for whom 60 is rapidly (well the same speed as everyone else) approaching I see no need to get an e-bike.

As someone in in good health, reasonably fit and just the wrong side of 40, I’d get one tomorrow if I had the spare cash. I ride bikes for fun rather than some sense of achievement.

If i feel like replying to their comment i just say well im having more fun than you on the climbs

Nonsense. Cleaning climbs is a large part of the mtb experience for me. I get a lot of satisfaction from it. I assume that people on ebikes get none of that satisfaction. And hence arent having more fun after all.

If you can cover 50% more trail in the same time than on an “analog” bike, what’s not to love??

Yeah, I gave up walking after I learnt to cycle, then gave up cycling after I got my motorbike license.

I assume that people on ebikes get none of that satisfaction. And hence arent having more fun after all.

You're wrong.

there’s no evidence for this, and if we go down this route are we prepared to settle on a maximum combined bike + rider weight, because there are some people on normal bikes heavier than others on their e-bike

This is a good point....

Nobody in the real actual world has ever said anything negative to me about riding an ebike.

I've had a couple of comments but always just "banter". Never had anything nasty and if I did get anything like that then I'd cut them down pretty swiftly. Mostly, people just want to know what's it like and then if I explain why I ride it then they're usually quite interested in how it's helping me.

if you ride in a group and a few get e-bikes, it does put pressure on the rest of the group to get one too, otherwise you just can’t keep up.

I can kinda see how this could be an issue but it's the same issue as a mixed bag of fitness really. When I ride with other people I just scale back (or in certain cases, and increasingly so, up) the power assistance so that I ride at a similar pace. I've never ridden in a group with more than just me on an ebike though.

I assume that people on ebikes get none of that satisfaction. And hence arent having more fun after all.

I can't speak for everyone but there is an element of this for me. I don't get as much satisfaction on a climb unless it's a) technical and/or b) bloody hard. Although, without the ebike I wouldn't either as I'd not be able to get up any technical climbs and then I'd have to walk and my legs would die!

I like eBikes. Don't have one, don't want one, but they're a hoot to ride.

Anything that gets more people out on bikes is a good thing.

Even the fatties have to do some pedalling and will get fitter if they go out often enough, and what's wrong with that?

I’ve had some banter with clockwork riders that is initially bordering on the aggressive, but I don’t reply in kind and that has so far worked in defusing the situation. The majority of people who comment are positive about them, often admitting envy, and everyone is happy. I am (I hope) a considerate eBiker though; I don’t expect anyone to stop on a climb to let me through and tell them so, even though most do, and I don’t cruise past in Turbo making it look easy. I also pull over if I get caught on a descent, although it’s only happened once so far.

let the the 20 year old pass and the e-bikers

For Trailwagger

let the the 20 year old pass and the e-bikers
For Trailwagger

Yes. That's at the top of the hill that the OP claims the e-bikers had passed HIM on. So, they were already in front of him, no?

He means that at the top, they all have a chat and let the other two groups go first....'or past'.....as the other poster says....not brilliantly written but hey ho.........

Ebike as a utility vehicle, ok.

Ebike if your old or disabled, ok.

Ebike in any other situation, douche.

I assume that people on ebikes get none of that satisfaction. And hence arent having more fun after all.

"You’re wrong."

Do you also get satisfaction from driving a car up a really steep hill?

Do you also get satisfaction from driving a car up a really steep hill?

I don't get any satisfaction from driving a car at all. What's your point?

I like riding up hills.  Most of my off road KOMs are uphill whereas none are downhill (I do ride a low geared fixed bike though so never going to win downhill).  Anyone who uses a freewheel or gears is simply cheating.

I'm guessing the reason some people don't like e-bikes is the same reason why some (usually angry, bitter) people don't like being overtaken in their cars.  No point trying to analyse it, some people are just dicks.

Snobs/muppets/simpletons/low iq types - delete as applicable need any excuse to look down/laugh/berate/moan etc- delete as applicable at any newish cycling thing 🙂

 such modification is illegal anyway

it's not illegal if it's registered with the DVLA (£55) , has a certificate of conformance, a number plate, you wear a regulation motorcycle helmet, don't ride it on cyclepaths or bridlepaths and have insurance

"analog bikes" term coined.

Like 🙂

This is interesting, I will probably buy one when I'm too unfit and old to enjoy the hills.  Plus I think if it gets people out enjoying the countryside, well that's all good.  And anyone who needs one for health reasons, then that's good too.

But then why did I feel uncomfortable when I saw a bunch of lads, all in their 20's / 30's on ebikes at Cwmcarn the other day ?

They were enjoying themselves and I certainly wasn't jealous of the bikes - Ive tried a few and hated the experience.  I wasn't jealous of them riding up the hills, Im pretty fit and enjoy the climbs.  Not sure why I felt irked really.

So is it just because they are doing "our thing" and doing it different - so we don't like anything different ?

Is it Nimbyism.

the problem comes when they start getting confused with entirely human-powered bikes.

This is something I genuinely fear.

Yeah! Last week I was riding up the hill to work, feeling quite tired as it happens, and this old (probably younger than me tbh) fella goes past me on this sit up and beg job. I was like balls, better ride faster! Road goes down, I pass him easily. Forget all about it and 5 mins later I'm nearing the top of the next hill and there he is! passes me again. Bike looks "normal" ... am I really [i]that[/i] slow?? Then I notice the rear hub... ebike! So I'd confused an ebike with a human-powered bike... but why there is a [i]fear [/i]of this.. .?

Is it Nimbyism.

No

Not sure why I felt irked really.

Does seem odd.  Do you have a problem with other people doing things that you consider different?

The reason why many people don’t like them is they are a reminder of our sad demise and the inevitability of getting old.  With a touch of generalisation thrown in.  Most those in their 20’s  30’s and early 40s that rant on at how terrible they are will by the time they are in their 50s, maybe sooner, be either buying one, be e-curious or have buggered off and taken up golf.

I really dislike them but I'm not entirely sure why.

I'm very competitive but handle being beaten when it's skill / fitness fairly well (it's something I'm working on). I feel cheated when it isn't a level playing field.

The other aspect is wondering where the boundaries lie. As batteries get better, the max speed may stay the same but the ability to use that power for hours seems to be eating away at proper riding. Where you're exhausted and vaguely lost and wet and your legs hurt and you're spinning the 50t ring but it all feels worth it when you finish ...

The human powered aspect of cycling to me is a wondrous thing which I personally wouldn't want to spoil by adding a motor. Surprised to see their popularity in the off-road world.

The hatred I have witnessed is towards the *electric mopeds used on road by the local pissheads.

*Actual electric mopeds, not ebikes. Illegal to use on the road.

Nonsense. Cleaning climbs is a large part of the mtb experience for me. I get a lot of satisfaction from it. I assume that people on ebikes get none of that satisfaction. And hence arent having more fun after all.

I ride motorbike trials infrequently.  The whole sport's about cleaning technical sections, it's very physical and, despite  the lack of pedal locomotion, it's immensely satisfying when you get it right.  I might even call it fun.

The other aspect is wondering where the boundaries lie. As batteries get better, the max speed may stay the same

It won't.

I've never even ridden an ebike but already know how to delimit a Specialized using a mobile phone.

I don't hate e-mtb's as such, but some e-mtb owners or wanabe owners !!

It’s mainly jealousy.

Almost all objections to ebikes are born of a lack of intelligence.

I’m guessing the reason some people don’t like e-bikes is the same reason why some (usually angry, bitter) people don’t like being overtaken in their cars.  No point trying to analyse it, some people are just dicks.

As long as the emergence of ebikes doesn't create issues with trail access for non-motorised bikes, or hinder the prospects for greater trail access for non-motorised bikes I don't have any strong feelings, about them or their riders, one way or the other.

However I don't consider riding a mountain bike and riding an ebike to be the same thing though.