[Closed] Why so much hatred for the Orange 5?

There seems to be this rather quaint notion [in lots of things] that just because something is British we should be prepared to accept poor manufacturing standards*, poor pricing, poor service etc. Hardly a recipe for producing world class companies, but hey we learnt that in the 1970s

Like the Dyson Airblade - Worst. Urinal. Ever.

I agree wholeheartdly with your first line. Gobsmacking how they can charge similar pricing to a US brand thats got an importer/distributor to feed as well in the mix.

Well Santa Cruz and Trek are about as American as On-One are British, and still charge the same/more. In all three cases I bet the frames come straight from Tiawan and have never been to America.

joolsburger - Member
There seems to be this rather quaint notion [in lots of things] that just because something is British we should be prepared to accept poor manufacturing standards*, poor pricing, poor service etc. Hardly a recipe for producing world class companies, but hey we learnt that in the 1970s
Like the Dyson Airblade - Worst. Urinal. Ever.

One thing I like about orange is the solid colours (no two-tones,or flashes etc). However, their stickers having been getting more and more garish..resulting in the horrendous set on latest five 😯
Who is their sticker man...needs to be taken out and flogged!

Perhaps I'm the archetypal Five owner who seems to be so despised on here. 57 years old but very fit and trim, worked in IT until I took early retirement 5 years ago and only got into mountain biking about 10 years ago after many years as a roadie. Started off on a cheap rigid bike and then moved on to an Inbred SS and and a geared hardtail. About four years ago I finally decided to see what full-suss was all about and tested a few bikes. Really fancied a Santa Cruz Blur but couldn't justify the cost new and couldn't find my size (XL) second-hand.

Eventually went on an Orange test day at the Surrey Hills and the Five just felt right. I wanted the Pro spec. but again couldn't justify the price of a new one but one came up on eBay for £1500 in good nick which I eventually got for £1400. Great bike and a real skills compensator for someone who never had the benefit of learning to ride off road when younger. I did also fancy the simplicity of the single pivot as well having read many horror stories about owners having to replace multiple bearings quite regularly on other makes. I have a mate who has a Trek Top Fuel for instance and his bearings are always creaking.

I didn't buy it because I thought it would enhance my image or as part of an ego trip. I think there are plenty of bikes out there that would do that far better than a Five so don't quite get where people are coming from with that theory. I was also a bit disappointed to read on here lately that Orange can't even supply replacement 26” swing arms any more so if/when the Five cracks I'll be looking elsewhere next time. I love the bike but don't have any particular brand loyalty to Orange as it seems like they don't have loyalty to their customers.

I can't believe this has gone to 3 pages and not one person has mentioned the new Five being 650b...surely the perfect clash of STW forum's most 'loved' subjects 😆

Doesn't it look just like a Five apart from the top tube?

Sort of, it just looks nicer for some reason. The 5 looks all sharp edged, cheap and horrible. Plus the aforementioned bent top tube looks awful.

ton - Member
If they are good enough for the Sweary Northerners, they are good enough for me
obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them.

POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Cos they are the best do it all trail bike out there, regardless of price, a loyal company that looks after British workers...but most importantly they are very good bikes, solid and reliable. Ain't that right ton! 😉

spectabilis - Member

Hey Isambard Kingdom Brunel want his bridge back.....

it's even more 'challenging' with the saddle up.

Like the Dyson Airblade - Worst. Urinal. Ever.

Am I the only person to wonder what it would be like to, you know, lower the old fella into one?

Is that true? If your rear swing arm breaks on a 26'er and its out of warranty?

Looks after its workers. How do you know this, do you or a good friend work there?

Cos they are the best do it all trail bike out there, regardless of price, a loyal company that looks after British workers...but most importantly they are very good bikes, solid and reliable. Ain't that right ton!

yeah right..... 😆

Because Hora has decided he is going to be an Orange 5 Owner shortly? Worst piece of marketing ever 😀

Adey!!!!!! You'll be missed Sat. Its not a five BTW 😉

So, if I buy one second hand and relatively cheap, don't care about the weight as I already ride a bit of a tank, don't give a monkeys about the looks, and am thick skinned enough not to care about the ribbing I'll get, then it's a good bike?

Yes, I would add that having had mine for a month or two now it climbs much better than most of the fat knackers you see riding them would have you believe.

orange have missed several tricks in terms of ideas they have worked on and could move it up in terms of manufacturing....they sell shedloads though as the company that heat treats their frames will attest to has a good number of frames going through it a month....why change a formula that makes money

Tidy looking 2008 16" on the classified for £900 at the moment.

Tidy looking raw 2012 frame too --->

Is that true? If your rear swing arm breaks on a 26'er and its out of warranty?

It was on another of the other Five threads on here of late. Someone contacted Orange recently for a replacement 26" swingarm to be told none available out of warranty.

Except it's been owned by LukeB, which means it'll explode into a million pieces shortly.

Tomorrows prices for yesterday's technology unfortunately'. I'd have one given happily but paying that much for a prophet which you can get for buttons is bonkers. I loved my prophet from 04 and the funny thing was that it took orange years a d years to improve on it, and even then it was only by putting a bolt through rear axle on, no advantage having a tapered head tube over a inch and a half one!

Oh the stigma, and in 95% of occasions its so true!

Can someone verify? Basically means secondhand fives arent worth much then. Like a lapierre I wouldnt spend 700+ on a gamble/possibly junked. Still you could fit a 29'er arm or weld it?

So many [i]ugly[/i] comments, do find it bizarre. Never seen a comment about a 5 Spot or Nicolai being ugly, is it just me?

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Do you genuinely find something like:

[img] [/img]

More ugly and agricultural looking?

not ugly at all.......just shyte company to deal with, and to55pots who ride em telling us how good they are being made in Yorkshire (my ar5e) and all that.......;o)

hora - Member

Can someone verify? Basically means secondhand fives arent worth much then.

There's nothing stopping Orange stamping up some more Five 26er parts, though they might choose not to. Mainframes will be trickier, with the imported toptube, though. (and to be fair mostly it's front triangles that crack on the Five- BB shell and shock mounts)

The folded-sheet-alu look is an acquired taste, but more agricultural than that Nicolai? No.

Sure, but aesthetically... That nicolai will most likely have lovely welds and excellent finish. My evo looks like it was welded by the YTS boy then painted in the dark. it's all functional enough but if I'd paid £2300 for it I'd have shit a brick.

@hora,

Can someone verify? Basically means secondhand fives arent worth much then. Like a lapierre I wouldnt spend 700+ on a gamble/possibly junked. Still you could fit a 29'er arm or weld it?

Read all about it here:

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/next-trail-bike26-or-275#post-5113281

not ugly at all.......just shyte company to deal with, and to55pots who ride em telling us how good they are being made in Yorkshire (my ar5e) and all that.......;o)

Aye but not everything made in yorksire is shyte

not everything supposed to be made in Yorkshire, is made in Yorkshire either.

not everything supposed to be made in Yorkshire, is made in Yorkshire either.

They're quite open that their non-FS frames aren't made in Yorkshire (or the UK, for that matter). Are you suggesting the FS frames aren't either?

no, why?

ton - Member
not everything supposed to be made in Yorkshire, is made in Yorkshire either.

POSTED 8 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Yep, definitely made in Yorkshire! Infact a lot of parts made in hudds..
You seem very bitter tony pal.. I really hope you are ok. 😉

Huddersfield. Really which bits??

no, why?

The implications of the statement "not everything supposed to be made in Yorkshire, is made in Yorkshire either" in the context of a thread about Orange bikes?

ratherbeintobago, it does read like that, but it was not meant to.
sorry if it came over wrong.

How many other frames if you break them out of warranty can you buy spare swingarms for?

Name them please?

sorry if it came over wrong.

Nothing to apologise for. Were you referring to Yorkshire Tea? 😛

How many other frames if you break them out of warranty can you buy spare swingarms for?
Name them please?

Cotic Hemlock? Admittedly quite a few broke!

Regards Nicolai & Turner/Orange comparisons: you are confusing industrial and agricultural....

HTH.

😉

shag, I am very good, thanks for asking.

Rik - Member

How many other frames if you break them out of warranty can you buy spare swingarms for?

Name them please?

I've had a swingarm and rocker for my Hemlock, both bought after it was out of production, and I never had a warranty. Though I didn't have to buy them, Cotic supplied them for free, so maybe that won't satisfy you 😉

Hmm what else. Specialized, it's not normally a concern- lifetime warranty, you either get the replacement part or a modern equivalent replacement frame. Marin, you can buy a swingarm for a Wolfridge no bother. Trek certainly do it for at least some models (friend did it for a Fuel). Santa Cruz do it too (and have a better warranty period in the first place)

TBH the only other brand I can think of that doesn't do this for recent models is Lapierre and, well, who wants lapierre for their benchmark?

Firstly, I'll admit I've never ridden a Five, so I can't comment on the relative rides, but this debate reminds me of an Orange Five predecessor, the similarly popular, loved, hated, and stereotyped Marin single pivots, of which I had a Rift Zone before the swingarms became less chunky.

I wonder what would have happened if Marin had stayed single pivot like Orange did. Obviously travel and burliness have increased since in what is regarded as a trail bike, but they had 5"+ models too at the time and were cheaper, better specced, better looking, and noted for their customer service and tailored approach to the desires of the UK market. It's a shame they appear to have made all the wrong decisions since their heyday, because if you take overpricing and ugliness out of the Orange offering, you'd apparently have a stonking product.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Should that have been followed by "But if it does break, replace it with another?" That sounds a bit bonkers unless the replacement is free on warranty.

Dyson Airblade urinal - such a comical mental picture!

Hmm what else. Specialized, it's not normally a concern- lifetime warranty, you either get the replacement part or a modern equivalent replacement frame.

Sometimes, there was a ton of controversy here though, loads of threads popping up like:

http://forums.mtbr.com/specialized/lifetime-frame-warranty-does-not-cover-rear-triangle-662014.html

Don't think the Hemlock debacle can be classed as a great example personally. It's more like a free factory recall.

Ah good old Specialized. The heel of my Spesh BG Sports seperated at the heel within a year on two pairs. both times I was told 'no, because you've used them'. Used them? 'Yes they have obviously been used'. (c24 times). The secondtime (less wear) I gave up and never bought another Specialized product.

They are selective.

"Warranty doesn't cover paint"- Funnily Turners do and they upgrade you too.

Are they overpriced? Handmade frame and seems to me similar spec to comparable bikes.

if it was made in the USA the 5 would be raved about.

sometimes simple is best less to maintain = more time riding

Toasty - Member

Don't think the Hemlock debacle can be classed as a great example personally. It's more like a free factory recall.

It's a fair point 😆 Though, I couldn't say mine broke prematurely tbh, the bike got used way outwith its remit and still it lasted well.

supercarp - Member
Are they overpriced?

is the pope catholic..... 😆

Londonerinoz - the replacement frame was 1/2 price so £800 (including upgrade to Kashima shock and Maxle rear end). I might have got a bit more by selling it on brand new, but not enough to buy a Santa Cruz or equivalent. Also, I really like the way it rides, saw no point in changing it and they'd beefed up the areas it cracked.

Having said that, I'm looking at getting a new frame/bike soon and it won't be a Five, but that's simply because I've been riding them for 5 years and fancy a change.

Just got one and it's the best bike I've owned. Astonishingly versatile, and fantastic fun too. Ridden it for around 50 hours and it's been faultless on everything from 40-mile Pennine xc loops through to alpine-style techie descents and rough-as-you-like rock gardens. It's super-smooth and perfectly balanced, and there's nothing to go wrong on it - plus it has a 3-year warranty anyway. Perfect for the UK and riding all winter. Would be fine in the Alps with some 160mm forks. Get the right set-up and I don't think there's a better 140mm trail bike out there (and Dirt mag has been saying this for years). The haters are generally talking b*llocks, or they spend way too much time looking at their bikes, not riding them.

wl, hopefully you wont have any issues when it breaks...... 😀

Overpriced? Two examples - Nukeproof Mega AM and TR and £1300/£1250. As far as I'm aware these are knocked out in huge numbers in a factory by a machine. Five, for a couple of hundred quid more are made in much smaller numbers by northern monkeys in an industrial unit down the road from my house. A couple of hundred quid more for a Five seems pretty reasonable to me.

Another? Cotic's Rocket. Isn't that ~£Five? And thats made in the far east out of pig iron?

Five overpriced? I don't think so...

DaveyBoy - agree. As a frame they're about on the money. Just not sure the complete builds are. They do make the frames jobbed out in the Far East look expensive.

With regards to looks, I don't like the Turners with DW links because they look like a cut and shut of two totally different bikes. The Nic is nice though. And that Five doesn't look too shabby...I just don't like the way they ride.

Interesting to hear peop say that Orange are bad to deal with because I was always under the impression that they were pretty good.

ton - Member
wl, hopefully you wont have any issues when it breaks

Come on Ton, lay your cards on the table and tell us why you really hate Orange. Did some one that works for the company run of with your wife or nick your chips?

Suprised about the poor customer service comments, they've always been very friendly and helpful with me when ever I've had the need to contact them.

Come on Ton, lay your cards on the table and tell us why you really hate Orange. Did some one that works for the company run of with your wife or nick your chips?

pmsl, seriously............ 😆

I found their customer service pretty good, and reading this thread most others seem to agree. Ton, I guess you had a bad experience and feel the need to reiterate it every page, but it doesn't seem representative of the majority. So what happended anyway ? 🙂

iainc, sorry mate i did not realise i had posted on every page.
i shall remove myself from this debate forthwith. 🙂

The hate for Orange is a STW thing. One of the forum king dicks repeatedly says they don't like 'X'. All their followers then agree, thread after thread after thread. Saying that, it's worse on Bikeradar but then that's a strange place. In the real world people seem to like them.

Doesn't matter how many times the usual myths are proved to be wrong, the same people will spout off thread after thread after thread. It must be important to them though and doesn't really make much difference in the long run.

ton - Member

Come on Ton, lay your cards on the table and tell us why you really hate Orange. Did some one that works for the company run of with your wife or nick your chips?

pmsl, seriously............

Yes, seriously. I don't read every thread on the site so don't know if you've stated your gripe before but it's clear they've upset you more then they've upset most others. Bit like me with Merlin really.

I didn't realise there was a lot of hatred for them.

I ride a Five, it's old now, bought it in 2006. But it still works well, I love the ride, the mud clearance is awesome - where my Salsa Moto Rapido is chain-sucking away the 5 is still churning through the mud - I love the looks (and, Mint Sauce rode a single pivot back in the day). I adore the way it descends.

I have no plans to change it, nothing wrong with it, and I'm certainly not changing it for the sake of fashion. The only thing I would change is the shock, it's a Manitou Swinger *cringes at the name*. It's never worked properly like my Fox shock did in my Juliana, but it isn't actually broken (so according to Karinofnine's Law of Saving the Planet - I can't just dump it) - I can't sell it because I can't put my hand on my heart and say to the buyer that it's ok, 'cos it isn't. Oh, the trouble with being honest!

BTW I'm not a man, not middle-aged, or overweight, not in IT and I don't own an Audi TT.

I must say though, when I was at Glentress last year, I was surprised (pleasantly) to see there were loads and loads of 5s there. I'd never seen so many in one place. It was great to see how many variations there are, in terms of colour and spec, of one basic bike. Lovely, like an Orange 5 convention 🙂

ton - was it you that broke an Orange frame a few years ago and suggested a way that they could strengthen it. They disagreed, but then added your bit in the next years model?

ton - Member
iainc, sorry mate i did not realise i had posted on every page.
i shall remove myself from this debate forthwith.

POSTED 19 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Thank **** for that! 😆 😉

 

Oh come on. Someone had to 🙂

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Its cool to hate something thats popular. See Apple, Coke, Graham Norton etc

OK, maybe Graham Norton wasn't a good example.

iainc, sorry mate i did not realise i had posted on every page.
i shall remove myself from this debate forthwith.

...and you can't remove yourself, you have us all on tenterhooks about your tale of woe 😛

Never mind the five....I'm liking the look of the new Alpine. 😀

I think it's interesting that one bike can cause such a stir. I have one, it does look a bit clunky, but it has a charm and I enjoy riding it. I may enjoy another bike as much if I had a go on one, but my Five hasn't made me want to try another yet. We are pals.

Some bikes look like they come from the future and I'm not really keen on the futuristic things. I hate Si-Fi and all that caper.

I'm not middle aged or rotund but I may still be riding my Five when I am.

my takes on this

One thing is all this trail-AM marketing bikes bollox dunt wash with me.

160-140-150mm forks etc, bla bla bla.

cant tell much between most of these kind of bikes from the main players these days and them that do are talkin shite. 🙂

if yer a pro then maybe,otherwise just farkin ride eh.
all a bikes feel could be altered by ****in tyres to stem bars you name it,so unless you set em up exactly to that then how can you tell that much??
and if you really really can then maybe you should be making these bikes yourself eh eh. 😉

its all in the head i tell ya..marketing marketing marketing 🙄

anyways i own two Orange bikes a Patriot and new the alpine,both do the job for me and thats that..

as did my mega before and whatver other bikes before that.

those who say ohhh i just couldnt get on with the 5 most likely dont ride anyways or just ride at trail centres every weekend.
try ride em as intended and you may think diferent.

😀 8)
8)

Filing cabinet digs aside, Orange, and the 5 especially, is one of those English classics that represents the essential soul of British mountain biking.

Sneer at them all you like, but God help us when the day arrives and the hills and trail centres are full of Cannondale, Lapierre, Specialized and Cube, and there's not a Cotic, On One, Charge or Orange in sight.

Had a 5 quite liked it, but certainly not as good the bikes that replaced it (sinister and ellsworth). Both were far, far uglier to most on here, but widdled all over the orange in terms of performance on the ups and downs...and pedalled better. Not to say the 5 is a bad bike at all. But certainly it's not the amazing mountain slaying performance machine that is faved about on here.

Oh and grumpy 5 owners are the easiest to wind up by far as most take themselves very seriously, hence the plethora of pi $$ take threads. Trying to wind up single speedy niche wagon wheelers isn't as much fun as they already have no delusions of being gnar core radmeisters

I think the 5 suits more aggresive riders than trail center mincers.

those who say ohhh i just couldnt get on with the 5 most likely dont ride anyways or just ride at trail centres every weekend.
try ride em as intended and you may think diferent.

cupid stunt - Member
I think the 5 suits more aggresive riders than trail center mincers.

Cupid, you're late!

[quote=DaveyBoyWonder ]Its cool to hate something thats popular. See Apple, Coke, Graham Norton etc
Orange 5's aren't [i]that[/i] popular. In fact, they are pretty niche. How many do you actually see outside of the UK - that aren't owned by UK-based riders? If they were [i]that[/i] good, you'd be seeing them everywhere. Like British cars, they are bought on the basis that they have a "heritage" quality that just doesn't travel well. That doesn't make them bad bikes though.

Loads of Alpines in Switzerland and Spain.

'Heritage' status had nothing to do with me buying one. I'd have bought one if it was built by a Taiwanese robot. Just love the way it rides and know it will work well day after day, in winter weather and gritty northern sludge. Same goes for lots of folk I know who bought one.

If they were that good, you'd be seeing them everywhere

Unlikely to happen unless Steve & co retire or sell the business. The Orange philosophy is to keep the brand niche by keeping production levels low, in-house(for 5)and therefore sell at a premium price due to perceived "rarity" value 💡

I did not like the one I test rode, finding it draggy uphill and nervous downhill. It did have horrid conti tyres. It might also have been too small. I supposed you can get used to any bike really.

It's looks are a bit Volvo cross bred with trabant. I do like the custom colours mind.

I always take the piss with five riders that I see out (good natured).

I dont think I've ever met a orange rider who cant ride/doesnt ride alot.

I've never seen a five at a trail centre

I've never seen a five at a trail centre

Five owners would get an easier ride if they didn't try and insist that it's the best bike in the world and the only one that will work in the UK.