[Closed] Why so much hatred for the Orange 5?

Because they're popular and fugly (to some) and arguably a bit expensive/over rated depending on your view.

There's nothing really wrong with them.

People see them as old tech, made in a shed in Halifax, expensive, ugly but are peeved that they seem to have so many fans and get so many good reviews.

I jumped on the bandwagon and I'm glad I did - its a great bike.

Yeah, I get the filing cabinet thing. I've seen a nice 2011 full bike for not a huge amount of money, and I'm tempted.

The single pivot simplicity appeals, as I'd ride it year round in sandy muddy places.

after racing UKGE in some grim conditions this year, the fact that mud clearance is probably better than any bikes out there has got me interested, when Ive never fancied em before

They were (are?) a popular but predominantly UK specific bike. They are not particularly cheap. That makes the target market quite specific. That means the image most people see in their heads when they think of a 5 owner is a middle aged baggy short wearing slightly plumper bloke who is probably of reasonable income, frequently new to the sport in his middle years. He probably makes his brakes squeal as he rolls down the hills. But his bike is very clean.

I'd say the 5 is damned by association. A lot of people who fit that description perfectly are determined to fight a loosing battle not to and therefore like to criticise it mainly for what it stands for.

Love my Five!

I know that the looks are a little marmite, and some think the single pivot to be old hat, but the ride is great. Climbs well & descends brilliantly.

Plus, the bearing for the pivot can be replaced for pennies! I just swap mine out every 6 months. It's a five min job (excuse the crap pun)!

I'd say the 5 is damned by association. A lot of people who fit that description perfectly are determined to fight a loosing battle not to and therefore like to criticise it mainly for what it stands for.

If this is the case, this explains a lot of the comments I have read.

Heavy, ugly, overpriced. But that's just three reasons to buy something else, not to hate them.

I sold my 5. I didnt like it. I dont think they ride as good as people make believe IMO

I'm kinda grimly and reluctantly agreeing with the Orange fanboi's 🙁

not just hatred for the 5, but for the orange brand completely.
shyte service from a so called 'local' company.
far too expensive.

spesh/giant/trek are far superior.....imho 😀

I had a five and enjoyed it ,when it came time to replace I looked at the newer version and thought it was underspecced for the money.I got a blur instead and for me it rides better up and down hill, I think it must be due to more refined suspension.

They are good, bombproof handmade bikes that are slightly expensive because they are made in the UK. They ride perfectly well and are good for UK conditions. For some reason this infuriates people who would rather own another bike and rather than just buying whatever they want they feel the need to get angry. Sames with cars, houses, clothes, watches etc etc. It's ultimately all jealousy. Some people can only validate their own choices by belittling yours.

I think its snobbery and wanting to be niche, at the end of the day a bike is only as good as you ride it

I'm not a fan of Orange bouncy bikes...not entirely sure why though. I had a Patriot 66 which I despised and I just couldn't get in with the Five's that I've ridden.

I don't mind the looks personally and I like the simplicity, mud clearance etc. I do however think they're poor value for money but then again most complete modern bikes are these days unless you buy direct.

I don't hate them, I just don't like them so don't ride one buy don't have the very stong opinions on them like some do. The fanatics make me laugh, but Hope attract the same following who will not hear a bad word said against them.

Long slack and low, three parameters that make them ride rather well!!!

I dont think people hate them. I think they like to take the piss out of them. Easy target.

joolsburger......or maybe they might have owned a orange, and had utterly crap aftersales service??

Sames with cars, houses, clothes, watches etc etc. It's ultimately all jealousy.

That's a quaint point of view.

Personally I like Oranges and might consider buying one (even though the majority of owners I know have cracked their frames).

We all like to wind our mates up about their bikes don't we? It's just quite easy to do that to Orange owners.

overpriced 😐

Yeah, I get the filing cabinet thing.

Ooh - that's a newer one. The older ones were made from old washing machines.

So, if I buy one second hand and relatively cheap, don't care about the weight as I already ride a bit of a tank, don't give a monkeys about the looks, and am thick skinned enough not to care about the ribbing I'll get, then it's a good bike?

Sames with cars, houses, clothes, watches etc etc. It's ultimately all jealousy. Some people can only validate their own choices by belittling yours.

Attitudes like that may not help...reinforcing stereotypes.

Just saying like.

I had one for a couple of years and just didn't get on with it. I stuck with it to try to like it but no.

And for £2,400 it had a £10 open ball headset and the cheapest chainset available, so VFM was poor.

nd am thick skinned enough not to care about the ribbing

You buy a bike that suits you. I wouldn't live my life trying to please other people; it's futile. It's like the mindless spudheads who gob on Porsche; it's jealousy trying to look like superiority. "Well, I wouldn't have one"

I've always found Orange's customer service spot on; never had much reason to use it, mind. Not like Santa Cruz/Spesh/Yeti.

If you fancy one, try it. If it doesn't suit it'll be easy to sell on.

Great bike, rip off pricing.

And from personal experience Orange are not pleasant to deal with.

Mines just come back from a week in the Alps and guess what went wrong with it...? nowt. Will be out on it tonight with a change of tyres and pedals.

People have a poke at the brand and the bike because in everyday society people think it's funny to poke fun at others(sadly).If you have owned one and got on with it you will understand why people love them.. and you spend less time changing pivot bearings.

Each to their own.

Not really, I said [b]some[/b] people so not a stereotype - I think I was pretty clear. It's true that in here some people are very vocal about other peoples choices, seems weird that anyone can get het up over what another chooses to spend their money on.

Never ridden one myself but I know better riders than me that rate them - personally I could never get past the looks enough to buy one. I mean if they were head & shoulders above anything else ride-wise I'd have one but there's far better looking bikes out there that ride at least as well. It's not exactly a bargain either.

Because the frame only gets 'fashion tweaks' - maxle here, head angle adjustment there, kink to the top tube, 650b, and those are enough to keep it selling, but anytime Orange try to build a new frame it doesn't sell enough to keep in production irrespective of its merits- blood, st4, and, I half reckon, Gyro will be for the scrap heap as well.

Never ridden one 🙂 mind, but still assume its a fine frame.

Reckon sc buyers are more deserving of scorn though.

Great bike, rip off pricing.

And from personal experience Orange are not pleasant to deal with.

I agree wholeheartdly with your first line. Gobsmacking how they can charge similar pricing to a US brand thats got an importer/distributor to feed as well in the mix.

On your second point I've heard that ALOT. Could it be that northerners grumble more than southerners?

it's the rover 75 of the bike world.

At a time when the rest of the world were doing thing like this:

[img] [/img]

rover did this:

[img] [/img]

which is a depressing look backwards, conforming to the idea that everything in Britain is old fashioned, made of oak, and belongs in a museum.

while the rest of the world is capable of looking forward, and trying new things, we're still hand making (filing) cabinets.

'hate' is a strong word - i don't hate the orange5.

and soon i'll be grumbling that there's too much emphasis on innovation for innovations sake.

I think that there's a popular misconception that the vast majority of Five owners are first time FS buyers with more money than sense, and are buying into the brand as they are hardcore patriotic Orange fanboys, rather than because the bikes are any good.

I picked up my 5 frame second hand, simply because it ticked the boxes, and it was a bit of a deal, if another branded frame of similar spec had popped up, I would have snapped it up just as quickly.

It is naive for people to judge both bike and owner, without getting to know either.

I don't see the difference between a Five and any other bike, lets face it, it's not that much more expensive than anything else around and at the end of the day it is just a mountain bike.
I am also yet to meet a middle aged IT director Five owner, driving an Audi A5.
I love mine, but with all the amazing bikes out there, there's a small chance it'll be my next bike too, unless I find nothing better after a few demos.

It's like the mindless spudheads who gob on Porsche; it's jealousy trying to look like superiority. "Well, I wouldn't have one"

Well, if it helps you to think that...

I don't see an issue with the pricing. I assume they're paying decent wages, and have to cope with paying uk prices for facilities, and dealing with a weak exchange rate for materials and machinery.

It's the overpriced/ugly argument that's usually the killer. Personally, I love Oranges (I'm on my fourth if you count my road bike) although I've never had a Five.

My current Alpine 160 is probably about the only bike to which I've made upgrades because I wanted to rather than because I needed to - by which I'm saying if I had to go back to the bog-stock, off the shelf bike, it wouldn't bother me. It's all the bike I'll ever need and I can see me not buying another all-rounder for quite some time - at least not until the wheel size issue has died down.

I've always found Orange reasonable to deal with on the odd occasion when I've had to contact them (twice in eight years or so which may count for something) so no problems for me there either.

Has it been that long since the last orange thread? 🙂

Orange seem to be doing ok out of the bike, so maybe they know their target market of middle aged it managers quite well.

I dont like the looks, but i cant form any opinion on anything else until ive ridden one. I do know a cock that rides one but i also know a cock on a Trek, Specialized, Giant....

The only ribbing I've ever seen about Orange Fives has been on here. In the real world, most people rate them and very few have a bad word to say about either the bike or the company.

As for me, I'm not fat, middle aged or in IT, but when I sat on one 4 years ago, it just felt right. When it came to replace it 2 years ago (after the first frame cracked), nothing appealed for the money that would have been a significant improvement.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

The thing is with Oranges of all descriptions, but especially Fives... is that when you spend a lot of the time on the trails all year round, proper trails.... you know the ones... big rocks and stuff.... at night, in the rain, snow even, in axle deep grinding paste ... you tend to see a lot of them.

That probably tells you all you need to know.

But they won't look as nice as your carbon XTR-kitted Nomad, in the car park on Saturday morning at Llandegla, admittedly

If they are good enough for the Sweary Northerners, they are good enough for me 🙂

ahwiles - Member

it's the rover 75 of the bike world.

At a time when the rest of the world were doing thing like this:

rover did this:

which is a depressing look backwards, conforming to the idea that everything in Britain is old fashioned, made of oak, and belongs in a museum.

while the rest of the world is capable of looking forward, and trying new things, we're still hand making (filing) cabinets.

What a **** analogy ! In what way does a decent MTB relate to a hatchback with reliability issues...?

Are Defenders still shit off road ???

The reasons why people seem to dislike them have been covered above, but I think the full bikes are absurdly expensive for the spec you get. I'm not saying that I don't understand why, it's just a fact. When I was looking to change bikes, I would have had to buy an SE at around £3k to get a similar spec to what I had.

However, I test rode one against a few others (Stumpy FSR, Trek EX, Heckler, Marin Wolf Ridge, Yeti ASR5) back to back on the same trails and the Five was by far the most exciting and had the best riding position for me. The others felt pretty dead, especially the Stumpy.

In the end I bought the frame only brand new as I was so impressed and built it up with my existing parts. Still not cheap at £1250! But then they are built in the UK with the higher associated costs. Many of the US brands are cheaper as they're often built in Asia.

I may be alone, but I actually think it's a good looking bike since it got the flared and bent top tube. Before that it was pretty gopping and I'd never have wanted one. The simplicity of the single swing arm and the way all the angles work together just looks 'right' somehow. I also like the 'industrial' look of it. You can see exactly how it's been put together.

It's not the lightest of frames but never rides like it's heavy, though mine is quite an XC/light build (XC717/Hope XC hubs etc!). I have no idea what it actually weighs as a full build.

In a nutshell, I love mine and would only change it for the sake of it, but I can totally get why there is a dislike of them. I certainly couldn't justify the cost these days.

If they are good enough for the Sweary Northerners, they are good enough for me

obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them. 🙄

They're a bit like Morgan cars IMO - haven't followed the market in technical development and are distinctive because of it, look different to the rest of the market, still made in Britain rather than as part of a global supply chain, cost a bit more as a result, are a hoot when you get them going and those that "get it" and live with the idiosyncraces love them.

Thing is, the 'unfashionable' older models are shockingly good value.

I'd struggle to see much difference between a Five and a Patriot if you slapped an air shock in the back tbh.

[img] [/img]

binners - Member

The thing is with Oranges of all descriptions, but especially Fives... is that when you spend a lot of the time on the trails all year round, proper trails.... you know the ones... big rocks and stuff.... at night, in the rain, snow even, in axle deep grinding paste ... you tend to see a lot of them.

That probably tells you all you need to know.

You certainly see a lot of them in Calderdale, ridden by the kind of individual who'd regard a broken limb as a minor inconvenience. 🙂

As for 'customer service':

The one and only Orange I've ever bought arrived at the shop from the factory late, the wrong spec, and 170mm nds and 175mm ds cranks.
Neither the shop or the factory were interested.
Quite some time ago now, but it's put me off buying another.
Is that just 'whining' Hora? 😀

[i] If they are good enough for the Sweary Northerners, they are good enough for me

obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them. [/i]

well I was going to say the first thing and now I'm intrigued by the second.

obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them.

Why?

Yeah come on Ton, why ?????

i am sworn to secrecy, if i break my oath i shall be strapped to a ducking chair and dunked into a pool of lager till i am dead.... 😀

spectabilis - Member

What a **** analogy !

i'll admit it's not the best analogy, but it's how i feel, that's my response the the OP.

In what way does a decent MTB relate to a hatchback with reliability issues...?

the rover 75 was a deliberate look to the past, and we can do better than that. The orange5 is blah blah blah

Are Defenders still shit off road ???

a defender may be a great off-roader, you can buy a new one for what? £30k?

how much is a new range-rover with all the toys? £70k?

Orange are charging modern, hi-tech prices, and delivering an old, low-tech product.

They can do what they want, it works for them, my dissatisfaction is probably of no concern to them whatsoever.

Orange are charging modern, hi-tech prices, and delivering an old, low-tech product.

No, they're charging UK built prices. Are £60 Renthal bars cutting edge tech, or Hope brakes? Sort of missing the point.

Lots of threads on Stumpy Evos at the moment, rocking that state-of-the-art 20 year old 4 bar linkage.

Trail bikes are about 30lbs, my Five is about 30lbs, so is my Stumpy 29er, so was my Meta. Weight really isn't the most important thing to look at imo, it's certainly not why I bought mine. My Mojo was 26lbs, it broke though. My 2001 Enduro was about 30lbs as well come to think of it.

Are they not the almost do everything bikes ( but not quite ).
It's a bit like some bikers that used to slag of BMW boxers because they saw them as boring,no fun and not good enough to stay with the pack.
Didn't stop people having a good time on them.

See also Ford Mondeo...
Got them where they wanted to go ( most of the time )

People have different needs,so I bet the Orange 5 ticks a lot of boxes even if it isn't the best at anything.

i am sworn to secrecy, if i break my oath i shall be strapped to a ducking chair and dunked into a pool of lager till i am dead....

Sounds like a good way to go!

I'd be interested in hearing more recent stories about shocking customer service from Orange. Could save me a few quid 🙂

a defender may be a great off-roader, you can buy a new one for what? £30k?

how much is a new range-rover with all the toys? £70k?

So which superior bike have you in mind which costs less than half the price of the 5 ?

Perhaps ahwiles to save the posts getting very silly you could post up your state of the art innovative fully suspended ground breaking bike?
So everyone can see the comparisons with a humble Orange Five.

The 5 is a British classic. It's no accident that they have won so many awards and had such incredible reviews over more than a decade. They are the "Land Rover" of the bike world. The 5 is something we British can be very, very proud of. They are expensive and badly made but the design is incredible. You can feel that they are made by people that are passionate about riding bikes rather than somebody that is seeking some sort of scientific advantage in a wind tunnel.

I had an 08 one that I sold earlier this year. Always liked it though.

If I was buying another full susser I'd be closely comparing the current 5 with the new Heckler. Both single pivot, both very good and similar.

Prices are not yet out AFAIK for the Heckler, but will be an interesting comparison...

I test rode one last year, rode really well on the downs, felt quite like my ASR5, but felt dead and heavy on the climbs. They engineering is very agricultural for the price, so I can see why they get a bit of a slating from that point of view.

The Five frame is about on the money...in fact given that it's built in samll numbers etc it makes some of the stuff jobbed out in massive numbers look bad value. Not sure in the complete builds because they don't strike me as value fir money but then again Spesh bikes aren't either these days (just look at the spec of a modern Rockhopper compared to one from four or five years ago). They look OK too in my eyes.

I'm not anti single pivot but for whatever reason have never got on with Orange full suss hikes despite loving the hardtails that I've had. Most of my linkage bikes have done surprisingly well in the wet with regards to bearing longevity. And as one or two have pointed out the FSR design isn't exactly new / cutting edge but it works and has fans so continues just like a single pivot.

[wind up]
People who think a Five is too expensive really want one but just can't afford it.
[/wind up]

There's a reason there are so many 5s up North, in Wales and even the Alps - they work. Of course this doesn't sit well with the stormtroopers who think they need a carbon Ibis to trundle around the Surrey Hills, although in fairness a 5 wouldn't look quite so nice on the Thule Aeros atop the midrange S Line diesel Audi 😉

When it came to replace it 2 years ago (after the first frame cracked)...//...If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Looks like a heckler, dropped top tube, single pivot, slackish geometry, I love my heckler. If it ever breaks it'll be replaced with a heckler or a 5, whichever pops up first on classifieds. rrp for 5s does seem a bit daft, could be wrong but weren't hecklers going for £950 while 5's were £1499? Wait and see what the new prices are like i guess.

catvet - Member

Perhaps ahwiles to save the posts getting very silly you could post up your state of the art innovative fully suspended ground breaking bike?
So everyone can see the comparisons with a humble Orange Five.

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

[img] [/img]

it's a test-bed for a parallelogram* 4bar (to see how they ride), and some new internal-sleeve pivots i was messing around with.

the next prototype's a little different, and i'm still working on the pivot locations, and i'm not sure how to create the mitre-templates for a tricky 3way junction.

(*ok, it's a 'tweaked' parallelogram, i wanted to try a little anti-squat-ology)

the frame cost me around £2000 or so to build.

Don't hate, just don't really like them...

Old Sub-5? Loved it! (and that looked even more filing cabinety)

Also quite liked the first of the mk1 5s, but just cannot gel with the later ones, uphill always feels like more of a drag than it should be and downhill no better than many other bikes (and worse than some).

SP for reliabiltiy I get, I mostly use a SP bike when I'm off on big rides away from home, I don't particularly like the bike, and it's not the quickest up or down, but I use it cos it's reliable, tough and I don't really give a sh1t about it getting bashed up, I imagine a lot of 5 owners are in exactly that camp, it does everything they need adequately and doesn't go wrong, they're very commendable qualities in a mountain bike and probably worth the marmite looks and price to some people.

They are overpriced for what they are, but then so are a lot of other bikes/brands, that's not a reason to hate, just a reason to shop elsewhere if it's not what you really really want.

It's not the bikes, it's mostly the owners 😉 Particularily that weird thing loads of them do, which is to assume their bike does something other bikes can't. Like the Grantway himself, always banging on about how a Five could do four foot drops, or how he'd ridden it round the mighty CLIMACHX!11!!onE. See also: "the bearings don't need replaced every 5 minutes", "They're bombproof"... "They're handmade" (most bikes are). "Huge mud clearance" up the page is a new one by me, it's pretty average.

And of course everyone who thinks "too expensive" = "can't afford it".

Still, they remain the number one bike for riding chicken runs on glentress red so who am I to criticise 😉

Don't agree there's hatred of them. A lot of piss taking mind, but that's because whiny little princesses going all "wah wah if you don't like my pushbike you're just jealous" is pretty ****ing funny!

I think people hate (or at least publicy berate) the five because so many people love them say how good they are. Simple as that.
Plus, quite an easy target because some see them as relativley unsophisticated.

It is FUGLY though. Naymind.

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

Now that IS ugly. 😉

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

Holy mother of freaking bat-bikes 😯

I'll keep the Five, thanks.

ahwiles - Member

catvet - Member

Perhaps ahwiles to save the posts getting very silly you could post up your state of the art innovative fully suspended ground breaking bike?
So everyone can see the comparisons with a humble Orange Five.

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

Hey Isambard Kingdom Brunel want his bridge back.....

The "best" line so far (IMO)...

micky - Member
The 5 is something we British can be very, very proud of. They are expensive and badly made ....[but the design is incredible.]

There seems to be this rather quaint notion [in lots of things] that just because something is British we should be prepared to accept poor manufacturing standards*, poor pricing, poor service etc. Hardly a recipe for producing world class companies, but hey we learnt that in the 1970s.

Part of me likes the fact that a company sticks with a design that works rather than the constant annual BS of spurious improvements, but they do seem to be the staffies of the bike world!!!

Despite what folk say about Walking Bottom Car Park 😉 I hardly ever see O5s on the trail in the south but loads in the Lakes. For some reason, they always look good moving but less so when static. Maybe that's the riders....!!!!

[* have no idea if this applies to O5s as I have never owned one.]

Been shopping around for a new bike and didn't really want to buy an Orange (fancied something a bit different). However, the Five seemed to tick more boxes for me than any other full sus trail bike.

Dead simple design and the geometry was spot on (for me). After weighing up all the other options the price and weight seemed pretty comparable.

I guess I'm fortunate (unusual?) in that I also really like the look of them 🙂

micky - Member
The 5 is something we British can be very, very proud of. They are expensive and badly made ....[but the design is incredible.]

Badly made?

Utilitarian yes, compared with carbon bling, but they don't break or wear out. My eight year old Five frame has taken a battering and still going strong. That's a *well* made bike.

Never ridden a 5 but I don't think I'd get one purely for shallow reasons - they look awful. The newest Patriot on the other hand looks so nice, just seen this posted up by Bikeactive on facebook, if it was an orange colour it'd look spot on!

[img] [/img]

I don't reckon orange bikes are really for me though, the geometry looks too long and stable/planted - I prefer short and fun.

Doesn't it look just like a Five apart from the top tube?