Why not more love for trials in MTB?

It doesn't interest me at all. My cycling is about going places, experiencing the outdoors etc. While I can appreciate that learning some tricks might help me out a bit on tricky "trails" I'd rather focus on being fitter overall, extending my stamina, range and speed.

FWIW the whole DH scene leaves me cold too.

It doesn’t interest me at all. My cycling is about going places, experiencing the outdoors etc. While I can appreciate that learning some tricks might help me out a bit on tricky “trails” I’d rather focus on being fitter overall, extending my stamina, range and speed.

Fair enough if it doesn't interest you, but the other reasons, could argue them 🙂

There's nothing stopping you experiencing the outdoors while trials riding either, it's just a very different way of experiencing the outdoors to more regular cycling. Just like a lot of people do with MTB, you need to transport your bike somewhere to ride (unless you throw a bunch of pallets and rocks in your back garden, or ride from doorstep to walls and ledges etc in town).

Tricks does come into trials, but put that way sounds a little diminishing. It's more a set of techniques for overcoming obstacles. Street trials can be more about the tricks though.

Lastly (being overly simplistic about it) I'm not convinced you can use the excuse you'd rather focus on being fitter overall when all you're doing is using your legs to move your feet in circles.Trials is much more full body and especially while learning it can certainly test your stamina.

Here's a trials rider experiencing the outdoors 🙂

Love watching trials. I have neither the balance/fine motor skills nor the time to develop to a level at which i might find it satisfying as a participant. This is also true of DH/Freeride type riding.

My main motivation to ride is much the same as scotroutes. Rattling around the hills/a not too savage trail centre suits me and happens to suit my skills/time available/not snapping myself in two balance too.

That last video is great.

Those old guys in the first video already have some skills if they are learning.

Used to love watching the Martins & Hans Rey bitd but they were on MTBs, isn't trials now about bikes with 20" wheels and no saddle now? Maybe that specialisation has turned me and others off?

@rocketdog that's a mod trials bike you're describing, they've always been a thing.

The Scottish Bike Trials seem to be all about anyone being able to participate. Pretty sure Ali Clarkson did a round on his PX Fatty to prove a point as well. I've never really been shown what to do but it's something I think you could easily do with local obstacles once you have the initial techniques.

Those old guys in the first video already have some skills if they are learning.

Interesting as someone who is at a similar level, maybe slightly better in some respects. I always consider myself "crap at trials" comparing myself to much better riders, but still persevering after four years. There's still a lot for me to learn. I'm a bit held back by not being able to practice consistently enough. Sometimes through injury, sometimes weather, a lot due to time.

Pretty sure Ali Clarkson did a round on his PX Fatty to prove a point as well.

Pat Smage did one on his Gravel bike.

He likes his fat bike too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGRiSrL_8sM

Going back to learning, Ali Clarkson went through a phase of telling viewers to "stay fluent".

So why isn’t it more popular?

For me because it is not actually riding bike.  When I use my time to ride a bike I actually want to ride a bike (for cardio, for the enjoyment of actually riding along).  I see trials as more dicking around which I haven't got the time or the inclination (at 55) for.

I see trials in a similar way to flatland BMX - very skilled people but not bike riding (BMX flatland people are probably asking why no interest in Flatland vs the forms of BMX...)

It’s very impressive to watch, but it’s also not my type of riding.

I’m time restricted. I’d prefer the time I have on the bike to cover the type of riding I enjoy. Completely understand that this will limit the gnar factor for what I can achieve, but I accept that.

I’m 49, work long hours. I want my riding to be explicitly enjoyable, social and seeing the great outdoors. My days of learning new tricks are over.

I can appreciate the skill but it’s just not something that I’d ever want to (or be able to do) myself.

I'd have a go if someone can loan me a bike.

When I first discovered MTB magazines in the late 90's trials was well represented and it was the first thing I was inspired to try to copy. I was a teenager, pre-internet so it was a little easier to have your mind blown in those days. I thought trials and tricks on a bike was the coolest thing I'd ever seen.

I also lived nowhere near any decent off-road riding but I did have endless brutalist concrete to ride on. I grew up surrounded by abandoned buildings. Factories, offices, railway sheds and old pit buildings. We used to roam around building ramps and obstables from desks and pallets and stuff. Fun times.

Also, every single bike was basically a too small, 26" XC bike which we used for everything. So we could go out riding and exploring all day and then backhop around doing big drops in the city centre.

Now I just don't have the time to roam around looking for street furniture to ride on. I'm struggling to make time for my normal bike. I did have ebay alerts set for a Pashley 26mhz for a while but I admitted that I'll never buy one. I'm curious to see if I could still pick up any skills but not enough to buy a bike and leave my son in the house to go out riding after work.

It feels very removed from other disciplines.

Like most riders I've dabbled in various aspects of the sport over the years. Some I've stuck at and others I haven't. Trials has never been on the list beyond a bit of skills practice to be able to ride up or down things a bit tech.

Like many things it might be a critical mass problem. MTB was massive in the 90s but the gradually faded and road became more popular. I think that's on the slide now after the hype of the Wiggins/froome era. Cyclo-cross is attracting big numbers but has probably peaked,every MTB event is enduro, gravel is growing fast. I think we might see xco make a come back soon if the TV coverage remains good.

Where is trials in this? It is a niche in a niche sport. It's not so much why aren't people doing it but why would they - what draws them to it as an outsider with no knowledge. If they take it up where is the community to keep them engaged and interested. All their mates have enduro bikes?

I love watching the stuff on 'normal' bikes that Ali and Danny tend to do, but do not connect at all with the pogo stick stuff. It may as well not be a bike seemingly.

I regularly watch Ali and Danny and the skill is mind blowing. Similar to above for me though is that biking is about getting around the countryside for me. Not sticking to one spot. I've never been a sessioner. I get bored too quickly.

It requires effort, something missing today.

You can ride down hill much easier, especially if you buy a talent substitute bike. You can even ride up hill easier if you buy a talent and fitness substitute.

People generally want the easy/lazy way. Motorcycle sport has an example. People pay to ride commercial hare and hounds event,, putting nothing into the sport and they do it on bikes that are far more able than they are thus riding fast when they could ride as fast on less capable bikes if they had the personal skills. Cycle sportivea are the same. Buy you way in not make a bit of effort and plan the route yourself or ride an audax.

I do see the point in some respects so am not totally knocking this apporach. I had a few wind surfing lessons decades ago. Dead boring as I needed a basic level of skill to actually move at any speed which wwas about the only thing that the sport offered. I wasn't prepared to spend the time learning whereas surfing gave me that instant buzz even on my stomach. I took the lazy approach.

@mattscm - couldn’t disagree more. In fact your comment comes across elitist.

I get fun and enjoyment out of the riding I do. I’m limited on time due to work/family/other hobbies.

I am speaking about myself personally here, but why would I want to do a different sport that doesn’t massively interest me and is completely different than the sport I do that I really enjoy? I no longer race, but when I did the time I had available was fully utilised in preparing for what I enjoyed.

Nothing to do with being lazy, I train for the riding I do. I don’t have the time to do more. There’s absolutely nothing lazy about guys who spend 12 hours a week doing what they enjoy, for me personally it was all about being the best I could be in the sport I was passionate about. I didn’t dip in and out of different aspects of the sport. I didn’t “buy” my way to speed (unless you class coaching as buying speed?)

I ride a 27.5 hardtail because I enjoy it - not everyone is on “talent substitute bikes”.

I’ve also done plenty of sportives and audaxes. Audaxes aren’t my thing, horses for courses. When I’m doing a sportive I’ve done it with my wife/children as a great introduction for them to larger group rides. My daughter now races, the sportives were a really good gateway for her into the sport. I lead group rides, marshall road and CX races. There are a lot of people giving their time to the sport.

Really winds me up when I read posts from someone just saying “do what I do or you’re just lazy”. Look at how many people turn up each week for XC, Road, CX and Enduro races. Do you think the majority of those guys are lazy? Or are they focusing their time on what they determine to be in their best interests?

FWIW when I was into motorbikes, trials didn't interest me then either.

I did one day on a motorbike trials bike last year at Inch Perfect. I absolutely loved it. I've been itching to buy a bike ever since but I can't yet. I might do another experience day.

There were a lot of experienced motorbike riders there who turned up on big KTM's, Africa Twins and BMW's and stuff. They spent most of the day looking like they'd bitten off more than they could chew and the noisy banter turned a little sheepish.

I feel like I had an advantage as it's way more similar to riding an MTB than a road legal motorbike. All the weight shifting and body language felt the same. Opening the throttle and flying up a rocky river bed was just like riding a DH bike in the other direction.

So yeah, same thing. Cyclists can't do tricks and motorcyclists can't necessarily ride off road over lumps and bumps. You need to really spend time learning how to do it and time is what most people don't have. There's a reason my abilities peaked when I was a teenager.

I will learn to wheelie again though!

I don't doubt it takes loads of skill to do it well. But it just isn't riding a bike. It's like when you see stuff in a circus or those ladies rolling around on the front wheel for ages. It uses a bike but isn't riding a bike.

IMO anyway....

I rode trials for 15 or so years as my only sport, and stopped back in about 2016.

It's always been the funny sideline of the cycling world, but its not died a bit of a death (in the UK at least) from its heyday back in about 2006 - 2010. It takes a LONG time to get any good (although quicker these days with better bikes and tutorials) and it's a slow speed, calculated sport that doesn't have the fast paced feeling of mtb or road. Not to say making a gap between 2 high objects doesn't feel good, its just different.

I now pretty much exclusively mtb and the skills I learnt I use on pretty much every ride, whether that is 90° nose pivots to get around tight corners, bunnyhopping, getting over logs on the trail etc etc. Trials riders have the best bike control of any discipline, and that helps in all other parts of riding.

It requires effort, something missing today.

You can ride down hill much easier, especially if you buy a talent substitute bike. You can even ride up hill easier if you buy a talent and fitness substitute.

Do you want some vinegar for those chips

Just not a skill set I have, so would have to spend all my time trying to learn stuff and getting frustrated and probably hurt. No ta.

I’m nearly 60, I couldn’t learn to wheelie even when I was in my 30s!

I think it became too specialist and niche compared to regular MTB (not to take anything away from how great the riders and their skills are) in the same way that modern freeride is becoming so different to regular riding

Needs a dedicated bike that is probably a niche to far for most people who can dip their toes in on a regular bike? I think it’s called “jibbing” on a regular bike. Martin Ashton brings the topic of trials up on GMBN fairly frequently.

Hmmm. Sounds like I'm alone on this one, apart from the OP.

I would live to do more trials, and get better at it.  For me the very essence of mountain biking is cleaning a difficult section of track. It's the most difficult  and satisfying bit of the ride when it happens.

I would love to do more trials to get myself betterer.

And also because I live in an mtb desert and it would be a great way to spend a hour in the evening or afternoon.

The reason I don't is that I'm shit at trials stuff, really uncoordinated and don't have a clue.  Thus I'd try a few things, partially fail and have no clue what to do to improve.

I would absuteky love it if someone in Manc set up a trials meet where good people could teach and encourage  shit people 🙂

Seems like the question is akin to asking runners why they don't do parkour!

I disagree with the notion it's not riding a bike. Had hoped the Pat Smage video where he switches between a retro Ibis trials bike and an Ibis gravel bike would show the connection with riding a bike. That competition was a lot less extreme than UCI comps.

Re community, for a lot of people it's online social media. Instagram, Youtube, maybe TikTok (I don't use it), comments sections. Instagram and youtube are great for encouragement from other riders.

For places to visit, in the UK you have Radical Bikes in Essex, the Bike Trial Academy in Cambridgeshire - who do lessons. Being in Kent I don't know much about what goes on further afield.

Closest thing I know of near to Manchester would be "Tuesday Night Trials" who meet up for rides in Preston, setup by the guys at Tarty Bikes. Beginners welcome. The current owners of Tarty Bikes having themselves only been learning for a couple of years I believe. Find them on facebook.

If you already enjoy and are satisfied by cleaning difficult sections of trail then trials could be for you. Plenty of tutorial videos on youtube, Ali Clarkson and Super Rider have some of the best. Watching Ali Clarkson videos was where the seed for me was sown that it is possible for ordinary people to learn trials.

The reason I don’t is that I’m shit at trials stuff, really uncoordinated and don’t have a clue. Thus I’d try a few things, partially fail and have no clue what to do to improve.

I didn't start until my 40s. I was the same. That's why you have to literally throw the idea of "going for a bike ride" out the window to learn trials. Half an hour of dedicated time a couple of times a week you'd see skillz gainz that you could then take out on the trails on "real bicycle rides". Low hanging fruit of the trials world, trackstand, front wheel pivots onto/off of things, roll-ups - lifting front wheel up onto obstacle and letting the rear roll up. Skinnies - small 'english' bunny hops off skinnies. Bailing out and jumping off the bike instead of face planting.

Low hanging fruit of the trials world, trackstand, front wheel pivots onto/off of things, roll-ups – lifting front wheel up onto obstacle and letting the rear roll up. Skinnies – small ‘english’ bunny hops off skinnies. Bailing out and jumping off the bike instead of face planting.

Just to add all of which are perfectly learnable on MTB. If you then want to take it further you could look at a second hand trials bike. Best place to ask about that would be UK Trials group on facebook.

Needs a specific bike? No. That's singletrack mind talking.

Not riding a bike? You are, in a very literal sense, riding a bike!

It does need a decent level of commitment, skill & practice to see gains as it's technically demanding. From that respect has a 'high price of entry', or; it's not quickly satisfying/looks too hard for most people.

I'm saddened at some peoples responses on here that sound like snobbery/sour grapes.

I would love to give it a go but job plus kids and likelihood of injury puts me off. Same thing with free running. I reckon a lot of the skills you could learn from trials would come in very handy on a normal MTB ride. Look at Chris Akrigg for example. Watching him motivates me to just go out riding.

Kind of reminds me of Rodney Mullen in skateboarding. All that technical skill lead to him inventing all the tricks and redefining street skating.

I'd like to try it but i would imagine its like learning to play the piano (which is also something id like to do): it takes a lot of time & practise to get over that initial hump to be evenly reasonably competent

While they have a lot of skill to do it I personally find it extremely boring to watch.

The opposite to snobbery - dead jealous of folk who have that kind of body-sense, co-ordination and natural skill.. Like most sports since I was a kid, could never be great at anything, just give 100% effort to stay with the skilled little bastards 😂

Back when Martin Ashton signed for Orange (donkey’s years ago) and designed his own bike he was asked why it looked more  like a regular hardtail and not a ‘proper’ trials bike, his answer was that they’d become so specialist that regular people didn’t associate them with MTB and he wanted his to look more like a regular bike.
This was back during his Animal Tour and before Danny Mac arrived on the scene.

I think that might be part of the problem - a lot of people (especially from the comments above) don’t see it as MTB.

On the flip side, to those people that say they don’t have much time, going out in the garden with a trials bike (or even a regular bike) and doing some trials only needs 30-60 minutes as you just get it out the shed, stick your helmet on and play.

Matt Wragg something about it during lockdown on PinkBike.
html https://m.pinkbike.com/news/not-a-review-is-the-jitsie-varial-24-hybrid-the-ideal-lockdown-bike.html

Is it snobbery when folk say they're not interested in riding on the road, or bikepacking, or riding in the snow, or racing, or any of the other variety of ways some folk enjoy themselves on two wheels?

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Is it snobbery when folk say they’re not interested in riding on the road, or bikepacking, or riding in the snow, or racing, or any of the other variety of ways some folk enjoy themselves on two wheels?

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Not at all, and I have no issue with people simply not being interested. IMO saying "it's not actually riding a bike" (or words to that effect) is either snobbery, jealousy, or some other form of negative judgement that massively undermines the skill, practice & effort needed.

It's just not that much fun. Bombing down some singletrack is a laugh no matter your skill level, it's far more fun and accessible than trials.

The OP question was 'why isn't it more popular'. This is really interesting, because clearly thanks to Danny Macaskill, the profile of that kind of riding amongst non-cyclists is probably higher than lots of other aspects of MTB. How many views do his videos have, tens of millions? More?

So fair question, why do people love those videos but have no interest in going out and doing it (clearly, millions of people aren't aspirationally buying trials bikes?). That seems the weird bit the OP might be getting at.

People who might be tempted to start MTB to focus on trials, after watching a cool YouTube video, I don't know...seems like sports like skateboarding would offer the same kind of satisfaction, are cooler and are much cheaper to get into.

As for existing riders, at what point do I start "doing trials"? If I hop a log in a trail centre car park, or ride along a skinny wall, but no one sees me, am I participating in trials, as a discipline? Seems a bit woolly to me. I guess in this context it means seeing someone on a teeny hardtail backhopping, which I think is a rare sight. Why? Perception of high-risk, high effort, low reward I suppose. I'd probably rather ride BMX.

What Danny McCaskill does is flat out impossible for most people. However, you can ride the same trails as most downhillers fairly easily, you just do it slower. And still have loads of fun.

Back in the day, me and my.mate spent ages trying to learn how to hop up onto a picnic table and ride off the end. We never managed it properly, after ages of trying. Meanwhile we had loads of fun ripping around the woods and mountains getting faster and fitter. So we just stopped bothering. T<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">rials riding just didn't offer enough fun for the amount of work involved.</span>

We also ****ted a few wheels trying to do 180 degree bunnyhops which was a major expense to fix when we were students.

@OwenP sums it up quite nicely. High risk, high effort, although I imagine the rewards for nailing a particularly tricky move are great. Same category as skateboarding for me. Just riding around is fun, similar to MTB, bit it get good is bloody hard work and requires lots of time, effort and, let’s be honest, probably a lot of injury.

On the flip side, to those people that say they don’t have much time, going out in the garden with a trials bike (or even a regular bike) and doing some trials only needs 30-60 minutes as you just get it out the shed, stick your helmet on and play.

Without the basic skills what playing can you actually do though?

Our son used to do motorbike trials as a schoolboy then moved onto cycle trials riding and rode expert class. This was in parallel with him riding "regular mtb". He now just rides mtb and has stated XCO racing. More technical routes suit him most and and when I ride with him I can see all those little trial touches have stayed with him.  .

Hmmm. Sounds like I’m alone on this one, apart from the OP.

Nope - include me too - as another "go out and ride in the countryside on natural trails" rider, its part of riding a bike. Maybe "trials competitions" aren't popular. But trials skills are consistently useful on pretty much all bikes. (admittedly the most used "trials skill" I have is trackstanding, which is a , errm, track skill, but the ability to pause, have a look at something feet up, is very useful. Its just low speed bike control at the end of the day.

Same with bunny hops. I've no idea how many I do in a ride, but anything offroad, its LOTS.

I guess it slightly depends where you live. Riding from home to out into the country, I have to pass a fair few anti-MX features. Some are little chicanes that you can get through feet up if you can hop the bike around; others are those 2 big sleepers placed about a bike length apart. I haven't mastered these yet, though getting there. No way can I do the backhop onto the first one, gap across onto the second, but I can sidehop the first, then shuffle the bike sideways to the second sleeper, get the front wheel up onto it, then fall off...!

Further than that, even today's ride, scratching round on singletrack on the edge of the city involved nose pivots, little flicks of the back wheel to get the rear mech round rocks, some front wheel hopping to get up obliquely angled rooty steps, the list goes on. Nothing big or flash or showy -  its all just riding your bike. And the more you ride you bike the better you get at riding it.

For me "mountain biking" is about riding what's in front of you - up, down, across, over, along. The quintissential ride for me involves putting both feet on the pedals as I start the ride, and they don't get taken off until I finish. The only reason to dab/walk/push is because you're not good enough to ride.

One of my favourite riders for doing this is of course Chris Akrigg. Oldish vid, but "trial trails" encapsulates it perfectly

Oh, and a lady XCer too...

View this post on Instagram

I’d have a go if someone can loan me a bike.

@thegeneralist @sharkattack if you fancy a go and are in Central or Southern Scotland then get in contact with Scottish Bike Trial club. David J there is is always happy to help new riders, pure enthusiasm circulates round his veins. SBT has a great training barn in Drumclog. There's rumblings of another trial event at one of the Tweedloves so you could give it a go on your MTB (people do).

I think one reason more people don't do it is that it's pretty hard to get "good", to get up to back as they say for the big moves. I'm just selling my 26" Echo as I don't ride it any more and I know someone who will. My kids have trialed on and off since they were young and even though they're less than dedicated trials riders now it's made their bike skills pretty awesome. They rode in the British champs and even in their teenage classes the sections were tough. The new progressive scoring helps a lot to get some points on the card and not all fives. Local trials are a LOT easier though. It's also great to see some of the older guys really nailing some of the moves.

EDIT: Intro to trials session on 19th Feb - https://www.scottishbiketrial.co.uk/events#:~:text=Sunday(19%2D02,to%20sign%20up!

Also UCI World Champs In Glasgow - Come and support our top riders!
Entry is free
Location : Glasgow Green
Teams
• Wednesday 9 August - Finals
20 Inch
• Thursday 10 August - 1/2 Finals
• Friday 11 August - 1/2 Finals
• Saturday 12 August - Finals
26 Inch
• Thursday 10 August - 1/2 Finals
• Friday 11 August - 1/2 Finals
• Saturday 12 August - Finals
Thursday 1/2 finals are junior 20” 26” and women.
Friday 1/2 finals are elite 20” and 26”.
All classes finals are Saturday

Is it to do with the relative ease of access to other types of riding now?

When I started MTB in the late 90’s there weren’t any trail centres, no bike parks, pump tracks or anything like that, so part of messing around on bikes was a fair bit of trials, if nowhere near to the standard of pros. It was just easier to get into than doing a day in the hills.

Now we have easily accessible (urban) bike parks and trail centres etc, kids just get into that first?

I should also add that a lot of the guys I know on the local bike scene are very into moto trials (a good number compete at national level, do the SSDT etc), and to a man absolutely rip on push bikes. They’re strong, fit, have great balance, and a strong mental game.

I like watching it, but I tried to do it and it was really hard and I felt like an idiot so I stopped. I could barely even ride the little 20 inch mod bike I got, it was just too weird, so I've got a 24 inch inspired now whose entire job is to sit in the shed and stop me from buying another damn fool little bike I'll never ride.

Some trials skills are obviously super useful for mountain biking which is why I thought I'd give it a go but as usual it's easier to buy a bike than it is to practice.

What Danny McCaskill does is flat out impossible for most people. However, you can ride the same trails as most downhillers fairly easily, you just do it slower. And still have loads of fun.

I would love to give it a go but job plus kids and likelihood of injury puts me off.

Also it was also a question about why so little coverage of it in MTB media? It is literally called Mountain BIke Trials according to Wikipedia. Jack Carthy a British Trials rider has only won the world championships ten times. What does it take?

Jack Carthy a British Trials rider has only won the world championships ten times. What does it take?

I'm not saying this just to be STW too-cool-for-school but I've honestly never heard of him. I was only vaguely aware trials was a sport and people actually compete in it. Seems like a good way to ruin something that might be fun.

All I see on YouTube is the occasional Danny Mac million dollar blockbuster and Ali Clarkson building ugly bikes with his weird voiceover.

Oh where is the PMSL smilie?

Even those objecting to me have agreed. It is all because trials is too much like hard work, in some form,  for most of us. It needs skills, time, money, lack of other more interesting things to do. As I said.

As for being elitist. Excellent. First rate idea. Fits in nicely in STW where you are slated if you don't agree with the current political whim, use or is it don't use a wood burner or save/screw the planet, wear lycra or no helmet peak, long socks/short socks.  Pick it.

As for skills compensators, we all use them. I have those funny things called gears and brakes on my bikes. The fixed doesn't do every job I want. I most definitely chose to go faster on my aero TT bike rather than the pre WW2 SA hubbed thing.  Don't deny such compensation, enbrace it . I am sure some DH super star called Atherton could go down most hills faster than many of us on my 1985 Dawes MTB whilst we were suing any works rig chosen.

Chip? Yes.Too many smart alecs trying to say that they are right and no one else is.

Jack Carthy a British Trials rider has only won the world championships ten times. What does it take?

It's a very niche discipline, within a niche sport. In the public spotlight I'm not sure that currently there's room for anyone else alongside Danny Mac. Five* time world champ or not.

I've dabbled.  I'm not very good at all to the point of ridicule, but it's a great way of working on skills that are transferable to the trail. I'm still yet to come across a large stack of pallets in the woods, but come the day I'll be ready for it 😉

Ever seen it on TV? The only place I saw last year's trials world champs broadcast was from a link on Facebook shared by a finalist's mum!

* Jack's highly talented but doesn't need his results multiplied by two to justify his awesomeness.

Too many smart alecs trying to say that they are right and no one else is.

😂

To do myself - just not of any interest. Like others above, I come to mountain biking from a journeying and an endurance athleticism perspective and nothing has really changed on that score. The idea of an evening of 'sessioning' a technical bit has never really appealed. I'd probably be a better, more technically competent rider if I had done it a bit. I guess the closest I've got to that are the odd trip to a trail centre and doing the same 5 or 6km loop a few times. But learning bike handling skills as a thing of itself has always bored me rigid - I'd rather my lungs and thighs were on fire or I was having a contemplative glug of a brew of choice looking back across a vista I had just travelled through (with my legs and lungs on fire). I don't see what I want to do is better or more virtuous - just more me.

Watching other people do it - I'm just not too bothered about that. And that's pretty much any discipline in any sport. I just don't seem to be wired to be a sports voyeur.

* Jack’s highly talented but doesn’t need his results multiplied by two to justify his awesomeness.

I've never been a great sports watching person, I just saw 10x UCI World Champion in multiple places, GMBN being one of them, UCI website being another.

It's not very interesting to watch (I'm excluding Danny Mac/Chris Akrigg as what they are doing isn't strictly trials) all the utching and thrutching to a soundtrack of honking brakes is undoubtedly skillful but it gets tedious pretty fast.  The very reason that Danny and Chris are better known than Jack Carthy is that they recognised that they need to do something other than pure trials.

Trying to suggest that good trail skills mean that people are doing trials feels like it's stretching the point to make it fit. Being able to do a short track stand is useful on a trail doing it for ages with hippy hops less so, being able to hop over small obstacles is useful jumping onto cable reels less so, endo turns are helpful being able to do 360 sounds not so much.  Going out and practising trail skills is one thing but trials feels/appears contrived.

Bunny hopping and nose whips etc on trails is part of normal MTBing, doesn't count as actual trials IMO.

Not at all, and I have no issue with people simply not being interested. IMO saying “it’s not actually riding a bike” (or words to that effect) is either snobbery, jealousy, or some other form of negative judgement that massively undermines the skill, practice & effort needed

I can only apologise if I've offended anyone by saying its not riding bikes to me. I probably worded it badly. It doesn't fit in in with my riding of bikes. I get that some trials skills would be helpful for mtbing. Obviously having the balance and agility that goes with trials riding would be massively beneficial when getting over obstacles or getting round tight switchback corners. But to me traditional trial riding as in hoping around on poles and stuff that Danny Mac does is ok for a few minutes but is then just really repetitive and boring to watch.

Chris Akrigg dropping a video every year or so is great as he add she'd loads more to it, but even then if he did too many videos it wouldn't be interesting anymore.

I don't doubt the skill levels that people like Akrigg, Danny Mac, or the other guys have, I certainly couldn't do it.

I do agree about having a go in the garden though, and I do every now and then, challenging my son to do things but I get bored very quickly with it. Probably because I'm shit at it though!

My earlier post was not meant to be snobbery though, so sorry if I came across as a ****!

So fair question, why do people love those videos but have no interest in going out and doing it (clearly, millions of people aren’t aspirationally buying trials bikes?). That seems the weird bit the OP might be getting at.

A number of people on this thread Including me) have specifically explained why they have no interest in going out and doing it.  The fact a few of you are not listening is not our problem.

I like watching it at times, I am even subscribed to Ali Clarkson on YouTube, but have no interest in using my 'riding' time dicking about on a a bike.  I spend 8 years doing that between 8 - 16 years old on a BMX and was obsessed with it at the time but now older just simply have more interest in actual riding (i.e. covering miles)

To my mind in no particular order.

1. At the top end of the sport it looks very skilled but unappealing. Loads of officials, odd bikes that can't even be ridden down the shops.

2. At the competition end the fashion for some rean is a mix of track suits and ronhill tracksters.

3. No flow.

4. No culture. This is my own thing thot any may find hard to understand but I am primarily a bmxer (a crap one) and there is a very strong culture in BMX and this appealed greatly when a teenager and gaining interest.

Street trails are interesting and that side of things seems to have progressed well. It still lacks flow in in general.

The basic moves are definitely worth learning, side hops pedal kick hops etc. I wish my pedal kick hops where better but I can just about get off something even if I can't "jamp a gap"

Needs a dedicated bike that is probably a niche to far for most people who can dip their toes in on a regular bike?

Like a Planet X Jack Flash? They're what, 50 quid new?

@JonEdwards that TrialsTrails video looked like it could have been lifted off several stages of the Naughty Northumbrian, I was amazed how many folk didn't have the control skills to navigate some of the sections.

I just saw 10x UCI World Champion in multiple places, GMBN being one of them, UCI website being another.

@sirromj, I wasn't having a dig at you, the 26 year old "ten times world champion" needs to wait until he actually wins the UCI world champs ten times before calling it. He's not Nino, not yet at least.

Like a Planet X Jack Flash? They’re what, 50 quid new?

That’s a bit like claiming you can compete in the DH WC at Fort Bill on your Calibre Bossnut £1000 full sus. Technically true but there’s a lot of difference. In fact it’s probably a bigger difference than that.
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I think the ‘problem’ (if indeed there is a problem) is that trials in the 90s was something you did on your XC bike (a hard tail of some description). It was accessible to anyone who rode mountain bikes and it was just mucking around on knee-high obstacles. A sort of sideshow to MTB. Then it gained popularity and the internet came, and people realised you could actually do much more (harder stronger <faster> better), especially with a dedicated bike. So trials splinters off and becomes its own thing, with weird bikes and massive obstacles.
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I used to ride trials for a long time. Whilst it’s given me some useful transferable skills, it’s a completely different sport to MTB. From a time perspective it’s more about hanging out in town centres with mates, which is find hard to justify to my wife/son. A bit like BMX in that regard. MTB is more socially acceptable and middle class wholesome. I’m pretty sure the demographic of this forum is not really representative of those who ride trials.

That’s a bit like claiming you can compete in the DH WC at Fort Bill on your Calibre Bossnut £1000 full sus. Technically true but there’s a lot of difference. In fact it’s probably a bigger difference than that.

Except its not and you're completely missing the point. Back in the day the Jack Flash was a perfectly adequate trials frame. For just learning it's fine, if you want to compete then by all means buy a £1k+ Intend or whatever but for just learning the skills you don't need anything beyond a low frame and suitable bar/stem setup.

This is why we have the bullshit arms race of Next Big Thing shite that we "need" in order to get on the trails. 1x, droppers, tubeless and numerous other things that are nice to have but by no means essential for getting out and learning on.

I’m not “into trials” and I’m pretty hopeless at almost al things trialsy. However, when I’m on my hardtail I’m much more prone to trying to do low speed track standy stuff whilst, especially now it’s a singlespeed (this morning I had challenge of a steep rooty climb where half the riders had gears and half didn’t, so you’re rarely going at the right speed and have to pause and wait without dabbing).

I might look into basic trials moves a bit, it’s just that practice time challenge…

As title really. I’m curious. Trials seems to be the forgotten bastard son of mountain biking! Lost count the number of times it isn’t mentioned when every other discipline of MTB is mentioned.

Sure it’s difficult, but it’s not just about having what appear to be super human skills like Danny Macaskill or Jack Carthy. It isn’t just about riding on the back wheel on bikes that look like pogo sticks.

Even the basics (while I’m not claiming it will change your world) can be useful for regular everyday riding.

I think there's two bits. Practising basic skills is valuable and important, and I have wished since about 1993 that I could bunnyhop over logs on the trail (but have somehow never really put the work in to learn).

But I feel like most trials, to watch, is one of those things that if you don't know about it, how difficult it can be, it's just not that interesting. Like guitar players. You could watch a legend at work, but if you don't know that he's playing triplets in 7/8 in the Lochrian mode, then it just looks like some guy noodling around a bit.

Same with trials - whereas to the layperson DH can look spectacular, or epic wildernesses look beautiful, or swoopy singletrack just looks fun, trials just looks like some guy noodling around a bit.

Right - I've been practicing 'low-speed-bikehandling' for the last 4 years or more. It looks a bit like trials and I've also ridden motorcycle trials a couple of time at "Trials Day" with Stuart Day.

I have an old Cotic BFe frame with a rigid fork and a singlespeed and I ride around the village track-standing, popping wheelies, manuals, hopping the front/rear wheel, riding up objects, bunnyhopping and generally mucking about for an hour at least once a week. I'm 56 this year.

I am never going to enter a competition, not my thing, and I'm never going to pogo around on the backwheel but I think it makes me a better rider and it's another opportunity to ride my bike and get out of the house for a bit.

More people should try it - it's fun and a helluva work out! More like 'strength training' than 'aerobic training'

Bunny hopping and nose whips etc on trails is part of normal MTBing, doesn’t count as actual trials IMO.

You could say that about pretty much any aspect of bike riding.  Riding downhill is a normal part of MTBing.  Sure, it's not 'Downhilling' but no one feels the need to make the distinction and say DHers aren't part of the umbrella group of mountain bikers..

Trials is just one aspect of MTBing that's taken to the extremes.  Same as Downhill, XC, ultra-endurance, etc.

For me it's watching something that I'm remotely capable of - i.e. I like watching DH sometimes as it relates (loosely) to the riding I actually do (rode down Fort Bill WC course years ago, just about 10x slower than the pros).

For that reason, I'm not really into watching massive jump lines either

Looks like a fun way to mess about, I'd love to improve my skills on the trail bike (kind of like in the Akrigg video).

Having a special bike for the specific purpose, and entering a competition though; just a step too far for me.

All bikes a re a bit specialised now. At the other end of the spectrum, I'll never entre a downhill race. I'll almost certainly never have a DH bike unless I can man maths justify it for a morzine trip.

However the skills based from it, and the thrill of watching good people do it, are of interest to me as an average trail, xc, enduroist.

It took ages to find this because I couldn't think what it would be called. Turns out it's a 360 Nose Drop. Who knew?

This was about the best trick I could do but it was easily 20 years ago, maybe a bit more. Back in the day when everyone's eyeballs weren't glued to a screen if you popped one of these down the seafront everyone used to stop and watch. Little kids used to come up and ask if you were sponsored.

The advantage I had back then is that my only bike was a 26" hardtail with a wheelbase that could fit in a shoebox and I used to ride it EVERY day.

I wouldn't mind being able to do one of these in the trail centre carpark, just so all the other 40 year old Dad's knew who was boss. It would be a big effort on the current bike. It would take about 10 seconds for the fork to compress and the rear wheel to come around.

I just can't see a world where i could have the coordination for a 360 nose drop or anything like that... Just not now, not ever. I don't think my little brain could compute.

It's only 2 moves really. 180 endos are fundamental. Pretty easy to do and probably the first thing you'll learn. You then just need to pop off the front wheel and the momentum carries you round.

I learned to do it on kerbs first. Just get used to holding the rear wheel up long enough to load the front wheel and pull up to hop out. It's much harder to do a 360 like that but you can learn the technique low down then as the drop gets bigger you have more time for the full rotation.

I'm talking myself into it now! I bet I have to phone in sick when I break my ankle in B&Q carpark or something.

I'll be in A&E shortly too mate, i'm heading out for a gap jump session on a jump i've never taken on before...

@sharkattack cheers, now found the website to go with that video!

https://trashzen.com/balance-for-biketrial.php

A lot of useful stuff there.

Good luck!

Also check or the Super Rider channel on YouTube for more beginner techniques and ofc Ali Clarkson.

The complete disappearance of any street trials riding scene probably doesn't help. I got into trials and did it for years because other people were into it and you could always find people to ride with and learn from. It had its time, then everyone got a dual slalom bike or something, and that was it. Though Danny Mac would bring about a resurgence, but I can't remember the last time I saw anyone actually out riding trials.

I'm grateful for all the skills I learnt, but doubt I'd bother learning them now, because yes I would feel a bit odd mincing about getting punctures on kerbs by myself.

Childhood dream bike alert...www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/590581822800266

Strong money though. I might be tempted for half that price.

I'm in Sheffield and I actually have seen groups of lads riding trials in the city centre. But they are all young lads who ride the kind of bikes that can't actually go anywhere and it's an awful lot of stopping and hopping around. It just looks a bit goofy to be honest.

I think that's why when I was a kid my favourite rider was Chris Akrigg. Everyone else was squeaking around in a leotard and he went really fast everywhere and looked really fluid and aggressive. Also, his Pace, box section trials bike? OOF.

Still a stunner,

Some good points made in this thread.

Trials certainly had its moment in the spotlight in the 2000s. I was a teenager at the time, wheelie dropping off everything on a jump bike with a bash guard in a helmet plastered in MBUK stickers. I have no idea why the Macaskill, Akrigg etc type riding hasn't become more popular, perhaps because there is such a high skill barrier to entry and the basics are very boring to master unless you're a teenager in a car park with your mates.

My general thoughts are that is now a mega niche, akin to flatland bmx as mentioned earlier, but the basic skills are fundamentals everyone could benefit from.

The thread has motivated me to polish up some of the skills. I've always wanted to be able to hop along stepping stones on river crossings. Anyone got any links for tips with this?

I quite like messing about with things like nose pivots, rock walks, track stands and back hops whilst waiting on others for a ride. It's good fun.

Heres a selection of how tos

Ali C how tos

Super rider how tos

Duncan Shaw how tos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1hkg-vrMm4fFN9x3EndqRLssxggjiWPH

Cornwall bike trials how tos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdyZBajcP4z9B0DI-aFzjM1X0-NxJGWqx

The useless trials how to
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmqC3wPkeL8mhup2EKBixPRpyZIE_z708

Steezy Stern how tos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQF1BHw3eXjTgDlNZD76EcAT4ddGNiBDI