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I've been using the C456 with an array of mudguards in this gloop bu as I now have it in bits (to mend the hope hub) I thought I'd treat it to some new cables.
Why on earth would you design it to have full outers apart from a 12inch exposed section down the seatstay? It has 2 cable stops there so obviously designed that way but a hell of a place to get dirt into the system.
Being carbon I don't fancy drilling them so has anyone put full outers on one - -no pun intended - and how, just zip ties?
I drilled mine, the stops are alluminium aren't they?
Get some of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BBB-Hydroclamp-x2-Hydraulic-Brake-Gear-Hose-Cable-Guides-/330855195223
If you're using decent cables it's not much of an issue tbh. Some people reckon full runs are draggier than open ones, not really convinced of that either.
Just drill em out. I did.
Having read a thread a few days ago, I bit the bullet and drilled mine today.
Piece of cake, go on do it.
I'm well happy, it was not carbon tho but aluminium.
4mm drill then 6mm.
Haven't got the old ones out yet but they seem to be all carbon to me, unless there's an ali sleeve inside
Bonkers I agree. Possible hangover from road bikes. Drill them and run full length.
Gear changes don't feel as smooth or as easy with a full outer cable. The Cotic take on it, with the exposed section on the top tube is probably better that the on one by the sounds of it though.
If you're using decent cables it's not much of an issue tbh. Some people reckon full runs are draggier than open ones, not really convinced of that either.
No nor me considering the open section can only be under a quarter of the run.
Will get the drill out I think...what's the worst that can happen (apart from certain death)
Full outer on the rear for me on my MTB, and also on the commuter road bike. Much more reliable shifting through all the wet and crap of winter.
Pros and cons to both systems if you ask me. Full outer will get less crud in but sectioned outers can be moved along the inner so you can clean and lube it. Just you try putting a full outer back on an inner that's been cut to length.
my 'new' (2year old now) frame has cable stops, i thought this was going to be a nightmare.
but it's fine actually - it really is.
My Rocky Mountain has the least amount of cable outer I've ever seen. handlebar to steerer tube and then from the back of the chainstay to the mech.
I guess that as gear outer is 'squashed' the changes aren't as crisp. However good the outer is, it's going to add friction to the system. Finally (that I can think of), it costs far less to change the outer on my bike than my wife's will full outers.
Not fussed either way. Both require an element of maintenance and neither is particularly time consuming to do.
agree with somouk, used those for exactly that reason on an old Turner RFX, worked a treat.
Drilling out the original guides not only damages the frame (making resale trickier, structually it'll be fine) it also allows the cable outers to slip and migrate through them (usually to a big loop by the rear mech all primed and ready to grab a big stick) leading to all sorts of other issues.
Never had a problem with muck getting in split cables - just use the XTR rubber thingys at the end of each section.
I use gore cables so the wire is protected even in the open sections.
I always run full outers regardless whether the 'option' is there or not. . The C456 was designed by a bloke over in the far east I think so he might not understand 'mud' as such 😀
Daft decision from On-One IMO. I nearly got a C456 - the cable runs are the reason I didn't, as I didn't want to bodge a new bike and zip tie the cables like I'd seen others do. Full length outers will be pretty much fit and forget, zero maintenance decision.
Those hydroclamps or drilling both sound like good solutions.
I've used full outers for years. Can't understand any other way. Zero maintenance. I zip tie mine up and if I ever have to change bits over you can lift off the shifter/mech as one unit without fiddling with the cable.
I've not had to lube, change or fiddle with gears all winter.
Gear cables don't seem to compress/squash in my experience unless you fit them badly. My bikes are smooth, gear changes are light and crisp. SP41 outer and 1.1mm cheap inners.
My Rocky Mountain has the least amount of cable outer I've ever seen. handlebar to steerer tube and then from the back of the chainstay to the mech.
Like all frames with downtube cable runs then? ;?
Never bothered myself, just change cables a bit more frequently. I'd have no real qualms about drilling them out though, an On-One won't have carbon cable stops.
1 zip tie through the existing cable stop.
2 zip tie at right angles, through the 1st zip tie, and round the cable outer
job done at no expense without drilling
See if you like it better, buy some fancy schmancy cable tube thingies if you do.
After years and years of riding and lots of different bikes and setups - my conclusions of the most long lived, grot resistant, smooth shifting cable options is as follows.....
Starting with the poorest.....
4, Gore type with multiple outer cable runs and protected inner cable- Just never got on with these at all. Seems like a great idea in principle but I found it not particularly smooth from the start and didn't last very long at all. Faffy, expensive and dont even bother trying to take them apart for cleaning without destroying them.
3, Traditional Triple run outers- cheap and simple, work great for a time but deteriorate quickly in wet conditions.
4, Full outers- Not as smooth as traditional but last much longer in wet conditions.
5, Cotic style split top tube + single run to the mech - Best of both worlds - just as effortlessly smooth as traditional. I dont know how long they last for as the set I put on 3 years ago still feels like new and I haven't touched them.
Of course buying quality XT or XTR cables is a must.
I had full length outers on the last bike but current one has split outers which I have put Middleburn cable oilers in. This seems to work really well if you remember regular squirts of GT85.
I had full length outers on the last bike but current one has split outers which I have put Middleburn cable oilers in. This seems to work really well if you remember regular squirts of GT85.
glasgowdan - MemberI've not had to lube, change or fiddle with gears all winter.
See, I have one bike with full outers, the rest are all some variation of somewhat to almost completely exposed... I've not had to lube, change or fiddle any of those either. Sealed cables were a gamechanger for this, it's not like the Good Old Days.
I honestly think this is one of those things where everyone just assumes the other way of doing it has more downsides than it really has. It's always the wee bit of cable at the mech end that gums up (er, or I damage the cable in a crash)
Enclosed is easier on the eye though
yip, lube the cables every 6 months or so and it's not a problem.sectioned outers can be moved along the inner so you can clean and lube it
As a direct comparison, I have two very similar road bikes, both with same groupset, but one with full outers (the commuter) and one with exposed inner sections.
The one with exposed inners has a much lighter feel to gear changing, whereas the commuter feels heavier and stiff.
I like to fettle my bikes, and prefer the exposed inners, as I can unhook the outer from the stops and slide the cable around and lube the inners easily.
With full outers I lube thoroughly on assembly and normally get a "season" of riding before they need attention, when I just fit a new inner and lube thoroughly. I'm a tightwad so I save the rear mech inner to cut down and use as the front mech inner. 🙂
I'm erring back towards favouring split outers.
I've always run Avid Flak Jackets, the ferrules lead into what is effectively a long drinking straw. this keeps any flying debris or moisture off the cables and still keeps shifting slick. i've never had a problem with fitting them or any longevity issues
You need 1.1mm inners when using full outers to get shifting perfectly light and crisp.
[i]I honestly think this is one of those things where everyone just assumes the other way of doing it has more downsides than it really has. [/i]
Pretty much, well installed with quality parts is more important than split or fully enclosed
You guys ride your bikes in the wet?!?
but the stops are on the headtube, not downtube, so no...
if you can pick up xtr style ferrals with the extended tube for the rubber to fit over, and get a length of 2mm heat shrink from maplins you can cover over the exposed bit quite cheaply.
Mary Hinge- could it be that your angles are 'sharper' hence why its slightly stiffer on a road bike?
On my mtb I've always run full outers and 'relaxed'. I run a 2001 XTR rear mech and the shifting is precise and clear. The only time I have to change the inner is when I frame swap for a bigger or much smaller frame.
I'm having this dilemma at the moment. I have just fitted a new inner and ferrules/rubber shields. Shifting is fine, apart from the top 2/3 gears(big cogs), it feels very tight through the shifter. Is this a cable run problem or a set-up problem?
Full outer and hydraulic cable mounts on my Genesis. Since this is an Alfine hubbed bike, it makes conversion to SS very fast - shifter, cable and rear hub come off as a unit. SS wheel goes on. Shifting is just fine (for a hub gear), even in the heaviest mud.
Interesting that a couple of people say Gore cables haven't worked for them. Having got them, I don't think I could ever go back - the "liner inside the main liner" element is the perfect workaround for stupid cable stops, and ensure the cable doesn't get anywhere near the dirt.
campfreddie - MemberYou guys ride your bikes in the wet?!?
Very occasionally I even get to ride one in the dry!
!I'm having this dilemma at the moment. I have just fitted a new inner and ferrules/rubber shields. Shifting is fine, apart from the top 2/3 gears(big cogs), it feels very tight through the shifter. Is this a cable run problem or a set-up problem?"
could be either or both.
try relaxing the cable tension first. smallest on the cassette, release the pinch bolt and retighten the bolt without loads of pressure on the cable.
after that i would look at the last section of outer, a blast of gt85 might make a difference.
If you're running full length outers how do you manage the cables under the bottom bracket?
The standard cable guides look like they will only accommodate inner cables. Is there a neat way of managing them?
If your cables run under the bottom bracket (road bike style) then to run full outers I don't think you have many options other than to zip-tie to the frame - in which case you might as well route it normally (i.e. along the top tube and seat stays to the rear mech) so it's easier to secure .
If your cables run under the bottom bracket (road bike style) then to run full outers I don't think you have many options other than to zip-tie to the frame
Maybe no need? I've had both on MTBs that get ridden in year-round clag and find exposed outers under the BB / DT routed are a very close second to full outers. There's almost no noticeable friction between a thin cable and that plastic BB guide and the outer ends face down so water isn't running into the outer when it's wet. A squirt of lube under the BB onto the guide is easy but generally not needed.