Really interesting video from Seth about the Lefty fork (of course). I didn't know anything about them, worth a watch.
Another bloody politics thread?
I thought it was going to be about Ned Flanders
Of course, not the only one legged fork out there. USE Sub I believe predates the lefty. Great looking forks. Glad we have such things around.
I thought it was going to be about Ned Flanders
I'm going to open a shop for people with right hand sided forks
Really interesting video from Seth about the Lefty fork (of course). I didn’t know anything about them, worth a watch
That might be the first Berm Peak video I enjoyed! Thanks for posting, it was genuinely interesting 👍
I've never ridden a bike with a lefty fork let alone owned one, but ai love them! I always forget to look out for them. Will watch the video.
Great looking forks.
I had a Lefty on and an early 2000-something Cannondale Jekyll, fork even back then felt nice.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/Wzqm4VZK/9-B5-B3-E9-C-A78-F-442-C-9741-5-D68461647-E6.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/Wzqm4VZK/9-B5-B3-E9-C-A78-F-442-C-9741-5-D68461647-E6.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Arghhh 🙄
I never liked the older style double crown type. Just from the point of view of aesthetics while riding.
The newer ocho ones though…
Those USE forks were terrible.
Worst performing fork I ever had.
The damper was only connected to the fork at one end.🤣
Just relied on friction to hold it all together.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/2116/2103128481_4f57a21d2a_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/2116/2103128481_4f57a21d2a_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://www.flickr.com/gp/stu-b/Y8659GUr0P ]2007_1211sub_fork0006[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]StuartBrettle[/url], on Flickr
Definitely weird but every time I see the lefty fatbike I get a bit warm and breathless 🙂
I love the one on my older scalpel when its working well (which is after servicing), but it has more frequent service intervals. The new ones were definately problematic. We did the Pioneer in 2019 in crap weather and every bike with a new lefty had issues by the end,
Definitely weird but every time I see the lefty fatbike I get a bit warm and breathless
Didn't even know they made one until I saw a guy riding one this summer. Had to do a double take, I thought I was imagining it.
Never ridden a lefty but always liked them. They do strike me as creating a new problem to then solve it
I've always liked the look of them.
I've got one of the early hybrid ones c2013.
All I shall say is "servicing".
A neat solution in search of a problem.
USE Sub I believe predates the lefty.
Lefty came out in ‘99, SUB in ‘02
Would love to have a go on one, maybe less keen to own, see all the servicing horror stories.
Go big or go home.
Righty tighty.
absolutely love mine, perfect for the majority of my riding
Everything about that English challenges my mind.
Amazing fork - ridden a few and found them to be buttery smooth & incredible stiff (even the early ones). Would love one, there's been a few times I could afford to one but I can't justify the dedicated wheel and servicing which has always put me off. Although I did have the headshok version for a while on the commuter bike which was equally brilliant.
I rode some of the old ones which had needle bearings instead of bushings and they were so unbelievably smooth! Felt like there was zero stiction - vibration just disappeared.
A better piccy of mine 🤣
So why are they lefties and not righties?
Genuine question !
multi21
I rode some of the old ones which had needle bearings instead of bushings and they were so unbelievably smooth! Felt like there was zero stiction – vibration just disappeared.
Always wondered what a needle bearing "regular" fork would be like - I guess patents and the service hassle has stopped it happening.
Always wondered what a needle bearing “regular” fork would be like – I guess patents and the service hassle has stopped it happening.
It is not only about patents, neglected Headshocks can get rusty on the bearings and/or races and fixing requires parts available only from Cannondale. Not sure about Lefty, their bearings might be more easily lubricated.
Always wanted a Lefty, they just look so cool, this year I got one.
Such a shame that Cannondale only brought the Fat Caad over here for a year - I saw one in Evans in a sale, almost bought it just because it looked awesome. Don't need a fat bike, but I've regretted not buying it ever since.
They were lefty as that is where disc brake technology sat, always on the left fork. Cantilever brakes didn’t work on a single leg.
So why are they lefties and not righties?
Genuine question !
disc brakes go on the left. I reckon even Cannondale drew the line at creating their own disc brake standard just to get their weird fork to work.
But why? WHY?
So why are they lefties and not righties?
Look at the pictures and the penny should drop before too long.
Another here hankering after a Fat CAAD.
The only bike on my current WANT list is a Topstone Lefty. Way out of my budget though.
to be fair that road bike from Kayak23 shows it is possible, but just had a look at the GF's bike, shimano at least are significantly wider on the outside - which becomes the inside on a righty.
FunkyDunc
Free Member
So why are they lefties and not righties?
Edit - forgot to press send on this and others beat me to it.
My guess would be that the brake disc/calliper is conventionally on the left of the bike and to switch to the RHS would just have been awkward. You've got to pick a side and that seems as good a reason as any.
ayjaydoubleyou
I reckon even Cannondale drew the line at creating their own disc brake standard just to get their weird fork to work.
Wouldn't have put anything passed them - this was the bonkers Cannondale of old wasn't it? Not the Pon sub brand it is now.
@dyna-ti Ha, my weird old Global Ti softail + USE SUB.
Loved that bike, the fork was ok, when it worked!
They could have done a righty with the caliper in front of the leg, just for the hell of it
Lefties weird? Just ask yourself why do cars have the same system to fix wheels on😄. Have 2 and another 2 Headshok ones . Easy to fix with the correct tools and the Headshok o rings are on eBay. Other halfs F700 (everything replaced apart from frame and fork ) has been everywhere,bought in 2001 for the Great Divide.Always thought a normal fork looked like the front of a wheelbarrow 😂.
They could have done a righty with the caliper in front of the leg, just for the hell of it
Cy at Cotic did this for "technical" reasons.
I (still) have the 2nd bike picture in @eddiebaby 's post. Bought after the great Cannondale overstock about 10 years ago when Pauls Cycles were knocking them out at (I think) below 50% RRP. Doubt we'll see those times again any time soon! Getting on a bit now but rides great, admittedly I've not ridden a more modern-geo bike to compare it to though. Had the Lefty serviced recently including internals replaced for the new design which was a bit ouch 😂
Was out for a walk in the woods the other day when some dude on a Lefty fat-bike come storming past us, looked like the coolest bike ever! Immediately went on the Internet when I got back, unfortunately it's quite old now & they don't sell them new anymore, didn't seem to be any 2nd hand either. Anyone getting rid of one? 🤣
They could have done a righty with the caliper in front of the leg, just for the hell of it
caliper bolts are then in tension, rather than compression of the caliper into the mount.
Or for the nerds, tension + shear both in the bolt, rather than compression in mount + shear in bolt.
Probably still wouldn't fail but I can see a whole load more creaks and noises coming from that arrangement
Didn't stop Cotic 🙂
Never mind creaks, I had to get rid of mine, could never get used to the look of it.
I have an old one; sitting forlornly in my basement, as the main screw on the bottom of the leg (top open up the air chamber) is held in place with a tiny grub screw which has rounded off so needs drilling out. But in use, it was great. Stiffer than conventional type forks, and plusher. Downsides are of course the proprietary front hub (and remembering to remove the brake calliper before removing the front wheel), the needle bearing strips need resetting quite often (travel reduces if they move from their normal position), and it requires some expensive proprietary tools to service. In contrast, Rockshox for example are relatively much simpler and easier to service.
So to summarise; better in operation than a conventional fork, stiffer, and lighter. But much more difficult to service.
I bought a full xtr 26" Cannondale scalpel for £500.
The magazines kept saying a 29" was like having an extra bit of suspension so I bought a bike with 80mm suspension.
It was awesome zipping round the woods.
The forks were weeping
The brace at the back was snapped/ snapped, I was not sure if it was me or the previous owner
The raw finish was full factory. On closer inspection having bought it, it wasn't.
I priced up a service at 1/4 price of the bike and sold it
The next owner found two holes drilled under the bottle cage (I'd never taken the bottle cage off).
I'd have a lefty again if I could service it myself.
It was about half the price of the bike to buy the tools to service it 😱😢
Lefty came out in ‘99, SUB in ‘02
Mike Burrows put a single sided fork on Boardman's Lotus bike in 92?
Those USE forks were terrible.
Worst performing fork I ever had.
I almost bought a USE (sounds like a lucky escape). Of Structure.bike have an anti-dive 'fork' - would be interesting to see how they compared in terms of the amount of anti-dive in use etc.
A lefty is still on my list of 'wish I'd bought that bike' regrets
A double sided lefty would be a waste of time. All the required stiffness is inherent in the excellent design...adding an extra leg would fo nothing more than double the weight, cost and stiction.
I'm pretty sure the Lefty evolved from the Cannondale Moto DH forks - which look like a double sided Lefty
I wish I'd bought a Beast of the East Cannondale's the made a few years back.
Ive had a few dales n lefties. Great forks. The biggest drawback was having to tolerate all the tedious and unoriginal "looks wrong" comments from other riders when out and about.
Lovely forks. I had one on my Gravel bike
https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-reviews/cannondale-slate-105
Always wondered what a needle bearing “regular” fork would be like – I guess patents and the service hassle has stopped it happening.
It is not only about patents, neglected Headshocks can get rusty on the bearings and/or races and fixing requires parts available only from Cannondale. Not sure about Lefty, their bearings might be more easily lubricated.
I assumed its more to do with the shape of the bearings and the required direction of motion.
IIRC The lefty is triangular inside so needle bearings allowing the flat surfaces to slide past each other are a easy. A standard fork has round stanchions so needle bearings wouldn't work - travel would be perpendicular to the direction of the bearing.
As is fox, rs et al could vastly improve stiffness by going to square or triangular stanchions without resorting to the ever increasing diameter which would remove the associated issues with ever more bushing bind and so on and it would also allow bearings not bushings which again would improve suppleness. Probably cost a few quid to change the production over though.
See also the Cannondale Headshok which ran on needle bearings
All the required stiffness is inherent in the excellent design…adding an extra leg would fo nothing more than double the weight, cost and stiction.
Whilst the stiffness is possible with a single leg, you could easily reduce the weight per leg of a twin leg design as it's not needed to the same extent, also you'd move the damper and spring into different legs, which accounts for some of the weight and so on. It would also make service and manufacturing that much more standard which means reducing the costs.
Oh, and you'd solve the biggest problem with the lefty - people wouldn't look at them and think "no" - so a double leg fork would significantly increase sales.
On my second bike with them. First was an off the peg Cannondale 29er, the current is my custom Saffron designed around them. Takes about three rides to stop looking down and worrying then you just get used to it.
I remember going to sign on for Charity ride a few years ago, one of my roadie mates saw a lefty on someone else's bike for the first time and just could not bend his mind around the concept he stood there and stared like a weirdo...
TBH it is mostly just weird for the sake of it now even with the advantages a lefty brings.
But at the same time I think Cannondale are pretty unique in continuing to design, develop and sell an expensive, non-standard fork, it's not something that any other manufacturer would consider sustainable enough to keep doing...
Part of me wants to get hold of a rigid single crown Lefty from a Bad boy and fit it on a Gravel bike just because, but then you see what people are asking for them and it gets a quick 'Nah' as an idea...
disc brakes go on the left. I reckon even Cannondale drew the line at creating their own disc brake standard just to get their weird fork to work.
But everything about a lefty is unique ie the hub and fork, so why not do the same with the brake? Or is it that the brake calliper would need to be re designed?
They did try with their dh fork, but even Cannondale realised it was a bit pointless
It's just a bunch of problems that need solving for no reason. It looks wrong (which usually means it's sub-optimal). It looks different for the sake of looking different.
It’s just a bunch of problems that need solving for no reason
This is a popular thing to say about Leftys. I guess you didn't watch the video? The reality is that it solves a bunch of problems at the cost of introducing some new ones. And it looks cool, not wrong. How are your car's wheels attached?
I always think they look weird, but cool to see something different.
People often seem to forget car wheels are only support on one side....
Single sided motrorbike rear swing arms exist as well
I dislike the lack of service support, there are now plenty of aftermarket tools if you look around, but refusing to publish service manuals is just annoying.
caliper bolts are then in tension, rather than compression of the caliper into the mount.
Or for the nerds, tension + shear both in the bolt, rather than compression in mount + shear in bolt.Probably still wouldn’t fail but I can see a whole load more creaks and noises coming from that arrangement
Are IS caliper bolts not in shear?
bigyan
Free MemberPeople often seem to forget car wheels are only support on one side….
Yah, but my car's bearings weigh about as much as my bike, never mind the stub axle.
do the bearing races still migrate downwards like my old headshok forks?
every week i had to turn teh bike upside down stand ont eh handlebars and heave the forks to teh correct length travel. i kid you not.
bloody lovely to ride though when they had full travel. soooo smooth.
caliper bolts are then in tension, rather than compression of the caliper into the mount.
Or for the nerds, tension + shear both in the bolt, rather than compression in mount + shear in bolt.Probably still wouldn’t fail but I can see a whole load more creaks and noises coming from that arrangement
Bolts are always in tension, the bolts create friction between the mount and the fork and the caliper. It is this frictional force that resist the load not the bolts. Bolts only go into shear when the applied load exceeds the frictional force.
Bought after the great Cannondale overstock about 10 years ago when Pauls Cycles were knocking them out at (I think) below 50% RRP. Doubt we’ll see those times again any time soon!
Omg I remember that! Halcyon days lol
Bolts are always in tension, the bolts create friction between the mount and the fork and the caliper. It is this frictional force that resist the load not the bolts. Bolts only go into shear when the applied load exceeds the frictional force.
Is that true of a Post Mount caliper fitted on the "wrong" side?
I like mine when it's working well. Definitely razor sharp in the steering department and so stiff in the older double crown variety that with a carbon rim it feels necessary to lower PSI to silly low levels or it's too harsh on a vibration level. Servicing is the big issue, its costly - then every few thousand miles it needs a new lower leg due to the lower bushing eating the stanchion - am on my fourth. When it needs one it's a £400 service. Buyer beware...do the math, it's a high running cost just for the sake of being different when other forks are so good. Also the design on mine leaves the lower headset bearings completely exposed with no additional seals, and can go rusty after just a few wet rides, which is by far the most annoying thing as it's such a pain to assemble... especially with the hammer-fit OPI system. The older non bushing booted variety were technically better IMO...
Prior to a lefty, there was of course Headshok.
Imo, it would still be great for gravel bikes du jour.
Short travel, low maintenance, light, stiff.
I would like a remake of a Cannondale XS800 or Touring Ultra.
That yellow bike is lovely.
Half surprised to not see mention of Ali Clarkson's gravel build on the forum. Think it's at least partly relevant to some of the discussion on this thread so may as well post it here too:
Prior to a lefty, there was of course Headshok.
Imo, it would still be great for gravel bikes du jour.
Short travel, low maintenance, light, stiff.
Spesh do the Diverge with a Futureshock. Similar but only 20mm of travel.
Is that true of a Post Mount caliper fitted on the “wrong” side?
Yes it would not change how bolted joints work. The caliper is still trying to 'follow' the path of the rotor
The caliper is still trying to ‘follow’ the path of the rotor
That's my point.
The bolts are not 'taking' the load regardless of how the brake is located.
The bolts just create a clamping force between the caliper and the mount or the caliper and the fork. effectivley the caliper and the mount/fork now behave as one piece of material. The clamping force between them is greater than the load applied by the caliper regardless of the direction of action.
With a convential setup (fork trailing) the compression element of the load is not sufficent to compress the bolts so much that the caliper slips everytime the brake is applied. The same would be true if the caliper was mounted fork leading. the tension element would not be enough to stretch the bolts and lift the caliper away from the fork.
With a conventional setup the caliper can't slip because it is being pressed against the post mount even more so when braking. It has nowhere to go other than "through" the fork.
If what you're saying for a front-mounted calipers is that the braking force isn't enough to reduce the tension of the bolt due to stretching, that makes sense (as long as the bolt isn't made of cheese I suppose).
Confession time I’m a little bit of a Leftie fan. I have two Dales with lefties. Always wanted one and I wasn’t disappointed when I finally got one.
Cannondale Jekyll team edition carbon, lightest FS I’ve ever owned, the carbon Leftie up front is my fave front fork setup. Not only looks as cool as fek, but is damn good (caveat I’m no rad Mtber or racer and I’m sure 10000 STW experts will be along in a second to tell me why I’m wrong)
But I love this bike, despite at every turn finding there is something else Cannondale decided to just go their own with way with. And servicing costs of the fork & in this case shock as well is enough to make me cry. That’s when you can find somewhere that still does it ! Because of that it’s slightly expensive to maintain, the bike OEM is dripping in carbon things, SRAM XXO etc and is super lovely because of it (It’s what it came with.) but the leftie makes it.
Only reason I’d part with it, is if Cannondale did an good looking eBike mtb with a Leftie.
Also have a dale gravel bike, the Slate in green. Another cool looking bike. Which I should sell, but can’t quite bring myself to.
I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the you’re missing a fork joke when out riding.
Owned a lot of cannondales over the years and a few lefties. Not the recent ones however.
Old ti axle ones, carbon ones, the elo, and lefty max.
The xc ones have all been brilliant. Moving from telescopic xc forks the left took a little getting used to, just because steering accuracy was so much better. I loved the elo. That was a very nice fork.
Didn't get on with the lefty max though. The constant resetting if the bearings did my head in.
I did own a USE SUB too, that was great, but not great. If it didn't have the englund air cartridge and had some proper damping it would have been really good. But alas, it was rubbish to ride.
The anti dive worked great though.
Othe half loves the headshok,even had a custom Van Nic Zion made with rohloff . Prefers this bike for touring over a modern bikepacking bike.
The only problem with the lefty is only one fork leg,less carrying capacity. Headshok solves the problem. The headshok bikes are light and are good for traveling abroad.
