Why don't you service your fork?

Are you worried you’ll **** it up? Genuinely can’t be bothered? What?

Yes obviously ( 🙂 ) ,
No, I like having a go at most spannering jobs but never learned suspension but also:
I don't actually ride my suspension bikes that much these days an an annual service seems overkill...

Expect a lot of this will be down to the 'they still go up and down' logic that some people have.

Throw in barely perceptible incremental degradation of performance as fluids get progressively dirtier, it can become difficult to notice that they're actually running crap over time, unless, like me, you're a princess that can feel the pea.

It's rigid,

Satisfactory answer? 🙂

I do... once a year..

the rear shock on one of his DH bikes is due soon, but all bikes get serviced.

I don't do any of them myself as i'd rather leave it to the Pros as they're quite important.

I've never understood this either.  A service is just a fluid change and it takes little time and is simple to do with ordinary hand tools on all the forks I have.

I do, but it's slightly overdue as it's been too cold for quite a while now.

I put it off for years fearing I would f#*k it up (I think this will be a major factor for a lot of folk, as you say its an expensive part to replace)

But after buying a brand new bike in 2020 I thought I'd better keep on top of things, so started doing my suss, surprisingly easy to do, I just followed a you tube tutorial. Gets easier every time as well and feels a lot better afterwards

A bit messy? How do you dispose of old fluid?

Flimsy reasons I know, just trying to think of why I don't do mine more often (actually I know why, because I use them for about 10hrs a year... 🙄)

Edit: also initial costs would be high for me assuming you still need a soft head hammer, circlip pliers and new crush washers?

Yes mostly worried I'll **** it up.

Also learned from experience that "simple DIY jobs" can be messy and frustrating when you don't have an existing tool collection or a garage and try to do them at the kitchen sink or on the living room floor.

How do you dispose of old fluid?

There's so little in air forks, it usually just soaks into the old bedsheet that I've positioned underneath.

There are degrees of servicing.... until it merges into repair or replacement so I think a better question is why don't people at least do the basics... At one end we have wiping the stanchions and towards the other rebuilding a damper

A basic oil change is probably the best thing you can do for your fork life... new sponge rings and crush washers it's no more complicated than changing a vaccuum cleaner bag... and once you do that it's a small step to replacing wiper seals every few along with a couple of o ring seals etc. and incrementally you end up reshimming etc

My guess is mostly it's made out to be an intimidating mysterious art...

you still need a soft head hammer, circlip pliers and new crush washers?

Cassette tool or 32/34/36mm spanner (flat so as not to round off those flush Fox nuts) plus the right suspension fluids - that's one thing - every fork seems to need a different variety of this oil/that oil for that leg this damper. Finding which ones, then finding someone who has em in stock...
I do do my Pikes, cos I have all the right stuff. I did my son's Yaris too, but something always goes wrong. Like last time with the Yaris where they wouldn't hold air after. Or I couldn't release the air shaft on the Pikes. Gets stressful!
My Fox 34s on my full sus have been untouched since I fitted them (5 years). But they work great.
Back when I first got full sus bikes, I used to have the rear shocks apart trying different air cans etc. Too scared now. I haven't got a nice bike workshoppy garage like I used to either. I should do that. Sort my garage out 🙂

Edit: also initial costs would be high for me assuming you still need a soft head hammer, circlip pliers and new crush washers?

You don't NEED either or the first two for an oil change on any fork I know. RS I use a long drill-hex adapter and hit that... Fox I hit the socket... but if you like you can get a camping mallet for £3

Crush washers cost a few pence each ...

Yes, every year they get a strip and clean down. When the weather takes a turn for the worse; it's damp and it's cold and my shoes haven't dried enough to go out for a ride usually.
I've got a 200h kit and time set aside to do the Pike tomorrow because it's miserable outside!

Rather like wheel-building, it's only daunting until you've tried it.

Availability of Rockshox spares in the UK has been awful and the constant changing of model numbers only makes buying them a bit of a lottery as shops won't even be advertising the correct service kit part number.

As already said, there are also too many different oils and greases.

I've actually yet to do the Fox 34s on my Occam but it's not really used that much. However, this thread is a good reminder so I'll do some digging later and get everything ordered up to be done when the garage is a bit warmer.

I change the air every 3 months in mine.

On oils

I have a variety of weights on fork oils in litre bottles bought from motorbike shps years ago- thats years worth of servicing.  Cost insignificant.  I think I have 2.5 wt, 5, 10 which also allows a bit of damper tuning as you can vary the oil weight in them

Never used new crush washers.  Never needed any special tools.  IME the only difficult bit can be the top nuts.  Very shallow flats

Rather like wheel-building, it’s only daunting until you’ve tried it.

👆

I now have settled on our forks and know what I need and how to do it. I also have 2.5lt or 1lt motorcross oil and a couple of spare seals in the spares box.

I tend to do them twice a year - and have an afternoon of lowers servicing.

On oils

I have a variety of weights on fork oils in litre bottles bought from motorbike shps years ago- thats years worth of servicing.  Cost insignificant.  I think I have 2.5 wt, 5, 10 which also allows a bit of damper tuning as you can vary the oil weight in them

Never used new crush washers.  Never needed any special tools.  IME the only difficult bit can be the top nuts.  Very shallow flats

A lowers service is not difficult but it is a faff and quite daunting the first few times. It can be pretty messy as well if you haven't got loads of space*. I generaly can't be arsed so leave it for ages, I don't use my suss bike that much though so don't reckon they need it that regularly.

I'm never quite sure how much fluid to put in or what type and I just can't be bothered trying to find out most of the time.

*Actually having an area to do that sort of thing is probably the biggest reason people don't attempt it in the first place. I have a garage with a work bench and plenty of tools, but it's a right ****ing mess and full of all sorts of other crap as well. If I kept it cleaner pr it was bigger with better storage I'd probably do it more....

Availability of Rockshox spares in the UK has been awful

Seal kits and service kits are pretty well stocked at the supplier (at least at the moment) very few are showing out of stock.

"Upgrades" (defined by the trailhead tab) are looking dire though, most stuff like airshafts, dampers etc. are mostly showing 5 months before restock (if you plan to get one and its available buy now)

Because I hate working on bikes.
Which is of course connected with lack of tools and lack of knowledge.
I don't have time in my life for that sort of stuff. I'm either working, trying to enjoy some adventure time or flaked out trying to recoup and regenerate.
There us no point in my week where I think:
" what I really need now is to dismantle an expensive and complex part of my bike. Spend 4hours in a state of extreme agitation and probably have a non working bike afterwards."

There is almost zero upside for me

The only reason I sold my Ohlins fork is that you need specialist tools for Full service where as I can do full damper service & lowers on my Mezzer forks experimenting with oil weights in damper & shim stacks

I’m guilty of this. Always wanted to but worried I’d balls it up.

If somebody could point me to a definitive guide to a lower service of my ‘21 Pike Ultimate I’ll have a go over Christmas and report back.

My Fox 34s on my full sus have been untouched since I fitted them (5 years). But they work great.

Do they though? or have you just not noticed? If I leave my Ohlins longer than say about 6 months, the fall off in performance is noticeable.

I do each or the forks in the garage, it is really not that hard. It takes longer to clean everything and take the fork off the bike than it does to service it.

Rather like wheel-building, it’s only daunting until you’ve tried it.

As a side note, I find that the most daunting thing about wheel building is the self doubt whilst measuring an OEM hub because you can't find any information and the brand customer service line knows even less than Google!

@CalamityJames

SRAMCONNECT.COM "https://www.sramconnect.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/service-manuals/rockshox/front-suspension/2023-zeb-lyrik-pike-service-manual.pdf"

First time I'd recommend download then edit the PDF removing stuff doesn't apply to you... e.g. you have pike's with RC2 damper...

(For a lowers it makes no odds but full service you need to remove the compression)

Just start with lowers service... chart on page 4-5 shows how much oil (also on damper bolt) and tightening torques after. If you don't have a torque wrench it's just enough to start crushing the crush washers 😉 the actual seal is made on the damper and air shafts... crush washer is a bit of a backup and way to tighten without damaging the shafts really

If somebody could point me to a definitive guide to a lower service of my ‘21 Pike Ultimate

Here's the official SRAM service video. Pretty all the manufacturers do this now. There's probably more in depth tutorials if you search a bit more.

This thread is making me feel guilty.

Im a proper "run everything into the ground" merchant.

I find the idea of me doing it quite off putting for the reason the generalist says. And the idea of dropping the bike off at the LBS for it to be done properly prohibitively expensive.

There really is no reason not to do lower services yourself.

It's such a basic, quick and easy thing to do.

I even did a lowers service on a fork that i sold last week so i could show the buyer the condition of the stanchions.

And the idea of dropping the bike off at the LBS for it to be done properly prohibitively expensive.

For me it's not just the cost, it's the time required and - to an extent - my lack of trust in other mechanics 😜

I find the idea of me doing it quite off putting for the reason the generalist says. And the idea of dropping the bike off at the LBS for it to be done properly prohibitively expensive.

I also dislike bike maintenance TBH, but you do need to keep vaguely in line with the lowers servicing schedule if you want modern air forks to feel good.

You'll probably get a lowers service done in an hour as a first timer and it's hard to mess it up. The only tricky bit can be getting the lowers back onto the stanchions square, without folding a seal.

If you clean and re-lube fox forks properly after every ride they really don't need servicing that much at all. Fox fluid will pull 99% of the crap that makes its way past the wipers back out onto the stanchions so you can clean them easily. Then the final cycle with fresh fluid re-lubes the wipers and the sponges. I try and send one fork off to TFT every other year and they always come back with a note to say how un-worn they are.

@tjagain flat faced sockets are a godsend for fork top caps - well worth the outlay (you'd need 1 or 2 perhaps). I had to put one 12mm long reach socket on a lathe for a set of marzocchis though as the clearance between the lowers and the nut retaining the damping rod was miniscule.

If somebody could point me to a definitive guide to a lower service of my ‘21 Pike Ultimate I’ll have a go over Christmas and report back.

Doddy is pretty clear with his vids

singlespeedstu

There really is no reason not to do lower services yourself.

try reading the thread

I've found it hard to get foam rings for my Fox 34s. Tried RS ones from ebay but they weren't the same foam. Used a seal kit last time but that's expensive.

Can anyone link to a source?

I do a lowers service, realistically every 9-12 months, you don't realise how shit your forks are feeling until you service them.  I don't tend to service the dampers though, I send them off to do that very very occasionally.

It is one of those jobs that does help to have the correct tool ,despite the bodging comments above, as an example a seal press I think is pretty much essential or at least reduces the stress markedly.

That reminds me, I need to do the rear shock's aircan service soon.

I'm probably an annual lower leg servicer.

Whats putting me off right now though, is no garage. Doing it on the patio in sub zero temps is not really appealing to me.

try reading the thread

Yep I did. I still didn't see any valid reasons for not doing it.

I never did them because I don’t think they need it. As long as the bike kept clean after rides so that dirt doesn’t affect the seals, then they’ve all been fine in my experience.

I don’t service the forks on my motorbikes every year either and they get a lot more use in shittier conditions than the cycle forks do.

I will say that my Blutos were better after a service than when new!

I don’t service the forks on my motorbikes every year either and they get a lot more use in shittier conditions than the cycle forks do.

It's a fair bet that your motorbike fork has a little more oil in there than the tiny amount in an MTB fork.
It'll also be built to last rather than perform well and be light.

Bensales - you will be surprised how much better they feel with fresh oil.   You get a slow degradation that you don't notice until you put fresh oil in

I even stripped brand new forks to check oil levels as they felt a bit sticky - suprise suprise - less sticky afterwards.  I think just dry foamrings

As long as the bike kept clean after rides so that dirt doesn’t affect the seals

IME the thing that needs looking after is both the foam rings and the oil in the lower leg. You'd be amazed at just how much crap those foam rings below the wiper seals will hold onto, and even my sloppy servicing - i generally do it every 6 months or so, there's always no more than a few drops of oil left in the legs.

You can do a lot by making sure that the wiper seals aren't damaged and dragging in dirt, and careful wiping and lubing after every ride helps, but it always gets past them in the end.

Some people are just mechanically inept Nick. The sort of peoplee who turn up with loose headsets to a bike holiday.

Mine gets sent off to tf every May for a service and I call it good.
Running coil helps though, it used to be night and day after a service with the air forks, but with coil it's more marginal.

I generally do a lowers service thrice yearly. Beginning, middle and end of the wet season, and a damper oil change once a year at the end of the wet season.

That said I've found that if I run a mudguard permanently with something that protects the dirt wipers and wipe/lube the stanchions post ride, I can get away with doing it at the beginning of the end of the wet season only.

I never change any seals or crush washers unless they're leaking, and clean the foam rimgs and reuse them.

I have previously changed the seals of dampers, but it can be quite laborious and fiddly, so these days I'd be more inclined to just send the entire fork away for a check and re-furb.

It's a really expensive thing, I'm really short of time and I'm scared of ****ing it up if I do it in a hurry. I run front mudguards on both bikes all year round and I think I'm pretty good at noticing when the suspension isn't working right, I'm horribly hypersensitive to set-up issues. I use my LBS for interim services and TFTuned for bigger services, maybe once a year for the former and every other year for the latter.

So whats everyone with Fox or Marzzochi forks using instead of the damper removal tools all the videos say you need? Just whack the socket after loosening the bolts a bit?

Grip2 just screws out of the crown once you've removed the foot nut. Nothing special needed.

So whats everyone with Fox or Marzzochi forks using instead of the damper removal tools

Socket over bolt

Videos show a special tool for screwing onto the damper rod(?) then tapping to loosen. I don't want to pay stupid money for those though....

Cheers steve, I was hoping that would be ok.

I do mine and I'm perfectly happy pulling them apart, I draw the line at shim stacks and the like mind.

Reasons not to?
I always struggle getting the seals out, no matter how many times I do it there's clearly some dark art I don't quite get the hang of and I'm terrified I'll mangle the seats/scratch the insides of the things. It would be enough to put me off if I didn't already know the outcome.
You need a good clean space and tools to do it, getting sawdust, swarf, dust, grit, general crap inside your forks or shock is bad. A lot of people don't have that sort of work space.
Of you're not doing it regularly it'll take a good hour or two to do and unlike wheels it's not a great job to pick up and put down until later, a lot of people don't have a few uninterrupted hours what with real life.
The service parts are stupidly costly - a service kit is not significantly cheaper than the cost of getting it done professionally e.g. Pike service kit from tf £87 or a full service from them is £115.
Oil is staggeringly expensive in small volumes, that said the 1ltr or so of fox gold lasts ages and isn't as bad as some stuff price wise.
Different oils and weights all add up in terms of cost and space.

It's not so much a why not for me as why start, a lot like wheel building, it's not a noticably cheaper endeavour to DIY than get it done properly.

I will say that my Blutos were better after a service than when new!

Ditto. My Rebas came back from Pedals in Edinburgh feeling like a much more expensive fork! The damping suddenly just felt 'nice'.

Oil is staggeringly expensive in small volumes

Only if you compare it to buying in large volumes, which you really don't need. I buy TF Tuned lower leg oil in 100ml bottles for £6.00 and that enough to do 10 services on my forks, or just about 5 years of oil replacement. There's no way you can call that "staggeringly expensive".

Being one of the people who specifically stated I haven’t serviced here is why:
1. I’m concerned I’ll screw it up and wreck almost £1k worth of kit
2. Last fork I serviced was a Pace elastomer job (I still have the grease & gun if anyone fancies…)
3. Don’t really a fall back if I do bugger it up…
4. I do keep things clean and lubed…
5. I’m just not teh awsesomez (like singlespeedstu et al, sorry).

Servicing a fork doesn't make anyone teh awsumz.
It does make it work much betterer and last longerer though.

1. there's an argument to be made that you're wrecking it by not servicing it.

2. Hasn't changed much (if at all) you already know what to do.

3. Sure, I get that, there are any number of video tutorials on line that will walk you through it and trust me, if I can do it, anyone can. Once you've done it, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

4. Good job.

5. I would prefer to take apart modern forks over the shit we used to have every single day of the week.

@metalheart - you need a "proper" engineer. 😉

As for not having a fall back - remind me how many bikes you have? And yes - you are teh awesomez.

there’s an argument to be made that you’re wrecking it by not servicing it.

At which point I'll buy another one. See point above about stressful job.

I appreciate this approach doesn't make much sense, but it's where I am at)

I always do my own lowers servicing, as its so easy on fox forks.

I recently noticed that my fox 36 grip 2 fork had no/minimal damping deep into the travel, so decided to have a look at how easy it would be to refill the damper with oil. watched a couple of you tube videos, and decided to have a crack at it. The only tricky bit was unscrewing the top cap from the damper cartridge - was tricky to clamp the damper body tight enough, but once that was done, draining the old oil and replacing it was straightforward.

The fork had done 2000 off road miles up until this point with no attention to the damper (but lowers had been serviced), The old oil didnt look too bad, still sort of clear, but a little cloudy, but not much sign of dirt. Anyway new oil filled and its like a new fork again.

I once sent a fork to TFTtuned - they sent it back with a note: "Do it yourself mate. Anyone can find the time, tools, workspace, inclination, confidence and ability to do this. Bloke said."

Did a 200 hour upper and lower on my rockshox 35, it took pretty much a day, oil everywhere.

Why don't I do lowers regularly?
- not yet confident that I won't run into snags or screw something up
- time: it would not take 1/2 hour. Probably a couple of hours all in is more realistic
- brakes: I just know it will take an hour to realign brake calipers
- no obvious need to do it (clearly they may be loads plusher after, but they don't feel un-plush now)

At which point I’ll buy another one. See point above about stressful job.

why not send it to someone to get it serviced?

i use a sheet of corrugated cardboard with an old sheet over it and lay it on a worktops in the kitchen. if it is cheaper than a fork service, you could treat your life partner to a massage or visit to the spa to get them out the house while you use the kitchen as a workshop. or phone in sick and do it on work time, or something.

damper oil also degrades, and is worth changing.

for some manufacturers the tools for changing damper oils can be expensive. a vacuum cap on a syringe screwed into the bleed port does the job on many forks. google will offer up some ideas on how to service without the correct tools.

if you have the lowers off for a clean and lube, it is also worth cleaning and lubing the air spring. if you clean the lowers regularly the foam orings won’t be beyond cleaning. IPA is good for this.

for lubrication, any oil is better than degraded oil. as someone pointed out, TFT sell small quantities.

damper oil is a bit more complicated as not all 5/10/20/whichever weight oils are actually the same weight. PVD has a good reference on his website.

i keep the oils in a jam jar in the garage. there really isn’t much in a fork.

but if you aren’t into such things, send them off to an expert. suspension works so much better with clean and fresh oils

I picked up a new bike and wanted to track when fork servicing was due, using an app recommended from here the 50hours lower leg only service came around quick, didnt fancy paying for the lower leg service so picked up the oil and grease from eBay and followed the Rockshox video.

Have done 3 or 4 now and it gets easier each time!

I change the air every 3 months in mine.

Sucker

Hm.

Really should do the 2020 34s on my bike. Never really got round to it on account of space and worry about fluids - my workshop is the back of my dining room!

No time to do it, too busy grinding beans and descaling the coffee machine

@ads678

Cheers steve, I was hoping that would be ok.

It's what I do on my own forks... obviously you do need to be careful though so its more a once every few moinths be careful rather than do it every day and never screw up thing 😉

but i did get me Reba serviced this summer.

SRAMTech condemned it as there was a structural problem with the crown/leg interface or crown/steerer. Don't think i'd have spotted that with a lower leg DIY attempt.

Fortunately LBS (BeyondBikes) had a word w Specialized who provided a new fork FOC despite being a couple of months out of warranty

SRAMTech condemned it as there was a structural problem with the crown/leg interface or crown/steerer. Don’t think i’d have spotted that with a lower leg DIY attempt.

this sort of thing is a good reason for sending them to a professional

metalheart

1. I’m concerned I’ll screw it up and wreck almost £1k worth of kit

That's almost like saying you're worried your going to wreck "the car" if you changed the oil yourself....
You might round off the sump bolt... etc. but it won't affect the central locking

In other words forks are a set of components, some more and some less expensive but you're unlikely to wreck the whole fork even if you did screw up. You might for example damage the damper footnut or shaft... and yes they are ridiculously expensive for what they are but the damper (on a £1000 fork) is modular... and a pro will replace that bit, charge you a bit and it's working again.

It's a bit like wheel building as already mentioned... have a go..it's easier than most people think but worst happens just take it to the LBS.

Whats putting me off right now though, is no garage. Doing it on the patio in sub zero temps is not really appealing to me.

I find it is warmer in the kitchen 😀 surely the current temps will allow a temporary kitchen workshop pass ?

Some people are just mechanically inept

I'm quite mechanically minded. Do all my own work on the car, do everything on the bike, including building wheels, etc. Even so, Forks are intimidating to start on if you've not done it before - and there's always the worry that you'll put them back together in a worse state than what they were.

It's only really a half hour job if you know exactly what you're doing too. First time you might spend several hours, referencing guides and manuals (which you need to find in the first place) to make sure you're doing it correctly. Even just finding the required parts/oils can be a chore. I spent several months looking for the correct procedure and oil volume to service my damper (not continuously, obviously). I still haven't found it on the Sram site, but it turns out instructions are provided in an aftermarket service kit.

As a consequence of all the above, I've never bothered much. They get done when they need done but not before.

I hardly ever send them away for service and certainly don't touch them myself. Did it once with a Revolution and didn't notice any difference. If it is so easy to do why is it so expensive?

If it is so easy to do why is it so expensive?

Easy is not the same as quick, if it takes an hour it's going to cost for an hour.
The service parts are expensive (at retail).

It's broadly similar in terms of cost regardless of where you get it done so, market price is artificially expensive, market rate is about right to make a living or market rate is cheap.
Given this is the UK where the consumer is always concerned with cost first and quality second, I'm pretty sure if it was reasonably possible to do it considerably cheaper, someone would.

Only if you compare it to buying in large volumes,

Granted £6 might not be a lot in absolute terms but lacking anything else for comparison, that the same stuff costs double more for ten times as much stuff makes it very expensive in small quantities. (or more to the point shows how much of the price is packaging)

Also a lot of people will want to use the "correct" product, not an off brand and to actually service your fork you'll need more than just lubricant oil (which could possibly be replaced with vegetable oil for all it actually does) and there it really does make sense to buy the proper stuff as not all 5wt is the same viscosity.

(FWIW I'd be doing an oil change rather more than twice a year on a fork with 5ml in each leg. I'd expect maybe a year for one fork out of that 100ml bottle, ymmv of course)

If it is so easy to do why is it so expensive?

When I do it all I do is change the oils.  Never done owt else.  When a shop does it I would expect them to do various seals and O rings as well entailing more of a stripdown.

Does this involve taking the front wheel off? If so, I’m out.

I do a lower leg service maybe once a year. It's cheap and easy.

I only started doing it 3-4 years ago. For the 25-ish years before that I never did anything more than a bit lube and a wipe with a cloth.

I don't think the professional servicing operations are taking us for mugs.

£100-120 still seems reasonable for the time, knowledge and expertise involved. As well as diagnosing and potentially warrantying any problems.

But I only send my forks away every third service, doing two lowers services myself first unless I notice any problems with the damping.