[Closed] Why does my front wheel always feel it’s about to washout from underneath me?

That is a lot of pressure, more like 18psi I think, @80kg.

35 psi is a pretty high pressure.....

35 is quite lot of air, especially for a 2.8 tyre.

What is the tyre? what kind of riding? surface? Have you had a look at your technique? body position? weight too far back? suspension set up properly?

Loads of factors, but pressure is your first port of call, unless the tread is not up to your terrain.

Too much pressure.

If you're talking about understeer, like the front feels about to wash out in a turn, then it could be many things but the tyre / pressure is an important one. So start there with ca. 20psi and see how it feels, bound to be an improvement.

That’s a lot of pressure for off road riding whatever tyre it is - especially a 2.8.

Also. Are you running tubeless?

Another big part is body position though. I was finding with a modern bike I was getting quicker and quicker and reached the limit of my ability with a couple of big ish crashes.

I went and got some coaching and it’s definitely helped - and I’m always thinking now of the advice I had and trying to implement it more when I’m riding. Both my crashes were front wheel washout.

Key is always try to keep your elbows bent, weight in the middle of the bike and then how you weight your pedals in corners and turn your hips etc.

Possibly body position if it's washing out. Get your chin forward and low.

you could lose 15 psi or more in the tyres tho' and check your forks have the right sag.

Old style riding technique with an exaggerated weight shift to the rear on descents? I used to do that and often suffered from a vague feeling at the front and a tendency for the front to break traction before the rear, which usually resulted in an involuntary dismount. Consciously trying to keep my weight low and centred more over the BB and not hanging off the back has really helped.

Weight too far forward and too low can cause this. Shorter/higher stem, riser bars, saddle further backwards.

As said above, far too much pressure. Try about 20 psi, you should see a difference.

If that feels no better check your rebound settings on your fork. Having the rebound set too fast can feel like the front wheel wants to washout.

What tyre are you running on the front?

Lower that pressure, I'm at 18psi with a 2.35 Magic Mary.

I know folks are saying get it down to 18-20psi, but if he's doing a jumps and drops he might want it to be around 24/25 instead (or even higher), and if he's up at 35psi i would be putting it down in stages, trying 30psi and first and having a few runs at that pressure, i wouldn't be halving the pressure as he'll be going from one extreme to the other and struggling for feel!

I was going to say the opposite to molegrips
bars too high, too short a stem etc..
i guess the key question, im assuming you are saying it is washing out when stood, weight on the bars? if you're sat down and washing out.. then that's the issue...

You might be tensing up, anticipating the lack of grip. Most of your weight should be going through the hips to the pedals. A good 2.8 tire should have plenty of grip. As argee suggested, try riding the same corner repeatedly with different tire pressure. Do the same with body position and see what works.

Possibly body position if it’s washing out. Get your chin forward and low.

Got a funny mental image of someone looking like a Jimmy Hill Spitting Image puppet who has a chin that's more effective for weighting the bike than anything else.

Then thought, I've seen him somewhere before ...

Not enough weight over the front wheel, bend those elbows!

Thanks for all the replies.

The tyres are Maxxis Rekon running with tubes. I’m not a fast or aggressive rider and just trails with nothing big jumpy or particularly fast. This happened going straight down a very wet muddy track and I went into the middle where it was a bit muddier. I try and keep my weight centred knees and elbows bent, but perhaps don’t put enough weight over the front. I think part of the problem is a spend a good portion of the ride on the road so tend to run a higher pressure to make the road sections easier. Will drop to 20-25 and see if that makes any difference

argee

I know folks are saying get it down to 18-20psi, but if he’s doing a jumps and drops he might want it to be around 24/25 instead (or even higher), and if he’s up at 35psi i would be putting it down in stages

25psi is still really high for a 2.8 tyre, that said, pressure gauges can be insanely inaccurate, so the advice about dropping in stages is sound - bring it down gradually. 2.8 tyres are a fine balance between loads and loads of grip and loads and loads of punctures

Darra8

The tyres are Maxxis Rekon running with tubes. I’m not a fast or aggressive rider and just trails with nothing big jumpy or particularly fast. This happened going straight down a very wet muddy track and I went into the middle where it was a bit muddier.

Rekon 2.8s are big volume, so they tend to float on top of soft mud rather than dig in like a narrower tyre might, that float combined with the lack of tread can make then a bit nervous over mud. A more aggressive front tyre (I have a 2.8 minion up front on my plus hardtail) makes a big differnce there, but t the expense of rolling resistance - if you encounter a lot of mud, I'd look at a tyre change.

hello Darra8 - are you actually have the front wheel slide away from under you, or is just a feeling/worry? As you've said it's the same as 10 years ago, maybe it's in your head as much as in the tyres.
In that case some coaching would be a good way to get your head re-set. (and like every one else says, you can lose a few psi)

Show us a pic of a corner that's causing trouble.

If you don't want to pay for coaching (I didn't) a free way is to find a nice wet grassy hill and contour across it carving ever tighter corners. The main aim at first is to slide out a lot on a nice soft landing so you know where the actual limit is, and then you can dial it back a bit and figure out what body position does to change the limit e.g. between front and rear tyre.

I did this most evenings for a summer and came into winter happy to drift all over the place in safety.

For those saying pressure . .
Im 125kg, i only put 30psi in a 2.3 front tyre.
So I would agree withose who have said you’re running a lot of pressure there.
I have another bike with 29x3.0, i put about 18psi in that.
Please bear in mind my weight, I’m really heavy.

I use 2.8 Rekons on my FS and I have them at about 18-23psi (at 75kg). That said, I still don't find them especially confidence-inducing on corners.

I should also add that I've found it really hard to find the psi sweet spot with plus-size tyres generally. They just seem a lot more finicky to get right - either too squirmy or slippy. Which is why I've gone back to regular sized 29" wheels and am much happier.

Wet muddy track causing the issue... You need a 33mm CX mud tyre up front, such as the X-One Bite.

Wide tyres are carp in mud, on a fatbike it's like Bambi on ice.

I think there is an element of worry but even though I’ve never actually lost the front end, there is definitely an issue either with my riding or setup. Perhaps coaching would be a good idea.

Where in the country are you based?

Bend your elbows more and get your body even lower. No, lower. I said LOWER! *

* what my coach said to me.

Dropping from 35 psi to 18-20 psi might not feel right for you, try 27 psi first, weight the front more and maybe just get a more aggressive tyre for the front, also the long low n slack trend can go a little too far for some peoples ride style, especially if you're dipping your toe back into biking after a decade out, bigger isn't always better and takes a little bit of adaptation.

Martymac, is that a new word you've invented, "withose", I like it, very Yorkshire.
Average front pressure is 25psi on the dh circuit and some enduro guys even run 27psi, Richie Rude springs to mind, Amaury Pierron and Troy Brosnan are around that mark too, if I'm not mistaken.

Loads of great advice.

For off-road your tyre pressures are way too high. I run 2.8 Recons on my hardtail and have 15psi in the front (87-90kg riding weight). Try that +/- 2psi. Rear about 2psi higher than front. I run a 2.8DHR on the front if it’s likely to be muddy as the Recon does tend to float on mud. Plus tyres will always struggle in mud as they don’t cut through like narrower tyres.

Check your fork settings as too little sag or too much/little rebound will reduce the ability of the fork to stay in contact with undulating terrain, especially dips, so can lead to washout.

Avoid the old-school bum off the back, straight arms technique. On rough, or corners, or off-camber try to stay centred and lowered (elbows out to the point it feels ridiculous) from the ready position to allow the bike to be able to move underneath you without your arms locking out. If they are locked the bike can’t move away from you without pitching you forward. Head over the stem keeps the front wheel weighted. Some great technique articles from Dirt School’s Andy Barlow on MBR.

Average front pressure is 25psi on the dh circuit and some enduro guys even run 27psi, Richie Rude springs to mind, Amaury Pierron and Troy Brosnan are around that mark too, if I’m not mistaken.

Aye, but all of those guys are a) going a shitload faster than any of us b) riding for their livelihoods.

The cost of them burping a tyre on a corner or wrecking a rim is that their race, weekend and all the work leading up to it is done.

Good advice from ginkster, too many folk shit it and hang off the back when going quick or on steeps.

2.8 rekon on mud - sketchy

at 400 psi, or whatever you said - lethal

... but I'm guessing that, since you've always had this, maybe you're keeping the bike upright and turning the bars, rather than leaning the bike

Average front pressure is 25psi on the dh circuit and some enduro guys even run 27psi

on 2.8s ?

Thanks so much for all the interest and replies. This has given me a lot to think about so need to get out more and practice. I was pretty shit at riding 10 years ago but now I’m nearly 50 I’m even worse, plus the fear of a spill makes me even worse! I bought the bike as all the reviews promise 27.5 plus to have an instant boost in confidence. To to fair I’ve only had it a few days so I’ve not even got used to the way it feels yet compared to my old 26” bike.

@Darra8

I've got that Maxxis 2.8 on one of my Whytes.

Running at 20-25psi (tubeless) makes a massive difference.

For the record, I'm 90kg and I run 22psi in 2.3s on a fully rigid bike, in a rocky area. Even on my 2.2s on my XC bike on 20mm rims it's only 27psi and I reckon that's pretty firm, I could go lower.

all the reviews promise 27.5 plus to have an instant boost in confidence

I think that if you go back and check, what they actually said was, "27.5 is a great confidence trick".

Lean the bike into corners rather than just turning.get the correct body position putting weight into the bike.run the front tyre a few psi less than the back. I always do this.

I bought the bike as all the reviews promise 27.5 plus to have an instant boost in confidence.

I seem to remember reviews 27.5+ bikes in the early days described tyres randomly not gripping in a slop as an issue. Better grip on rock and hard stuff but a risk or skating over mud. Or is that rubbish I've never ridden one.

Oh and I think the very dry weather then rain has been horrible for grip as you get slop that slides over the hard stuff under neath. Rather than really deep slop that the tyre can dig into

@greeny30
I didn’t even notice that little mistake.
I quite like it tho, now I’ve seen it 😂😂

I also found that bigger tyres are a little more finicky re: pressure. There’s definitely a sweet spot.

Don't forget that higher pressure in a smaller tyre will equal lower pressure in a larger tyre.

So in a 2.2 tyre, you might run 30psi (still a bit high), but a 2.8 might only need 22 psi (rough figure, not actual calc) to be equivalent. PSI is "per square inch", so 30 in a 2.8 is much higher stress on the system than 30 in a 2.2, meaning the tyre will not have any give in it at all. Drop your pressure a lot a try, take a pump with and play with pressures going lower than you think would work.

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