About 10/12 years I bought and fooled around with a Garmin 60 unit and at various points over the past few years have tried and was always frustrated with the software bundled by Garmin. Nothing ever seemed to work as it should, lots of bugs, sometimes the device wasn't recognised etc. etc.
Yesterday I bought a new Garmin device. It's 2019 I thought, so things must have really improved. It will all run like clockwork.... ummm.... well.... same old shit. Really astonishing.
By the look of it, they don't adhere to good process and design principles in their business. Blame their CTO and development management chain 🙂
Because cycling is a tiny part of their global market - they're big in marine and aviation so that's where the money goes.
Also, they've tried to cram in far too much "performance" bollocks into the system to the expense of things like battery life and navigation.
Had my vivoactive hr for 3 years now, it never misses a beat. Looking around for a replacement, just cos I fancy something newer with some more particular features, and I'm only looking at Garmin.
Brilliantly simple bit of kit.
I think my next gps unit will be a wahoo element bolt When my 810 fails or annoys me enough to change.
Every ride I change the bottom right of my Garmin to display temperature, and next time I use it, it will always have been changed back to "calories".
It doesn't even know how much I weigh or how windy it is, so how can it even calculate this number I'm not interested in?
Next GPS will be from someone else.
Every ride I change the bottom right of my Garmin to display temperature, and next time I use it, it will always have been changed back to “calories”.
Mine will periodically reset itself to the "default" settings display which includes calories and other completely useless info. Very annoying.
I have a Vivoactive 3 and a Samsung phone. If I have the GPS on I have a notification complaining that location services are on so the watch can't talk to my phone. If I turn the GPS off I get a notification complaining that weather services won't work as the GPS is off.
I don't use weather services and don't want to. I can't turn off notifications as that blocks all notifications including email and texts.
When I complained to Garmin they told me it was Samsung's fault and I should expect them to modify the entire Galaxy range so it works with their crappy watch.
And don't get me started about my Edge 810 which has been Crashy McCrashface from new.
I dread every update of Garmin Connect as it has in the past meant my watch doesn't work for weeks.
To balance out nobeer's review, my Vivoactive HR frequently crashes and loses any unsynced activities (and the time, which is a bit of a flaw in what's supposed to be a watch). It also seemed to get very confused by summer time and is now confused about which day it is.
Ultimately, I know Garmin is awful but I still bought a new 820 to replace my 200 because, even taking into account the software, they've got the best price/performance mix.
Others have a different view - my friend's cycle club have pretty much switched en-mass to Wahoo because reliability is more important to them than the colour mapping.
Weird, there were 6 or 7 of us at work all got them at the same time, the only issues have been water related, garmin replaced both within 3 days, despite being out of warranty.
I don't even wear it in the shower now tbh.
As a contrast, I’ve had almost no issues at all with Garmin software. The Lunge household is currently on 5 devises, 2 running watches, a fitness tracker and 2 bike computers, and we think it all works well.
Every now and again a devise won’t connect to the app but closing and reopening the app again seems to fix almost all the problems.
There are much worse systems out there in my opinion.
I always have to laugh at the fact it's called Garmin Connect app- half the time it won't flipping connect!
Instinct and 130 here, they both work flawlessly and sync to Connect and Strava without any issues.
Others have a different view – my friend’s cycle club have pretty much switched en-mass to Wahoo because reliability is more important to them than the colour mapping.
I find the Elemnt really effective. Just does what it's supposed to do with minimal fuss.
Edge 750. Now 10 years old. Hasn't missed a beat.
Geko 301. Long since superceded. Didn't let me down in all the years I had it.
Dakota. Would have been perfect but the screen was a bit small for viewing maps and it would slow down if I didn't clear out the old tracks every year or so.
Oregon 600. Faultless. I'd love to have an excuse to upgrade it to the 700 for Wi-Fi connectivity but really can't find a good one.
Forerunner 35. Simple, each to use. Connects easily via Garmin Connect, then to Strava and to Relive.
Basecamp on PC. Just about the most powerful route planning and editing system. Bit of a start-up curve but once gained it'll do just about anything you need.
It does seem that the whole Edge series has suffered from bouts of flakiness. The "outdoors" Etrex, Oregon etc seem to be much more stable.
It does seem that the whole Edge series has suffered from bouts of flakiness. The “outdoors” Etrex, Oregon etc seem to be much more stable.
I think it's the user interface that people find problematic rather than the hardware. It's just not very intuitive ime. That said, if you use anything enough, you get used to the quirks. It's always felt to me as if Garmin's software's been designed by people who've never actually used the units for real. Mad stuff like having to go to a completely different menu screen just to reset a trip meter on one of the outdoor models for example.
The hardware's mostly been decent I think, but as Crazylegs said further up the thread, Garmin's core marekt is automotive and aquatic, outdoor and biking stuff's a bit of an afterthought.
Ive had an edge 800, 810, vivoactive hr and vivoactive 3 music.
All have been good albeit with a few niggles. I swapped the HR for an apple watch at Christmas, but Ive already replaced that with another Garmin, the Garmin niggles are similar to the apple watch ones, but the overall Garmin performance is better.
It constantly says it's disconnected from my phone, but it never is it just needs the connect app reopening. That's an iPhone problem, had no issues when I briefly swapped to a galaxy s8.
The 810 I've had for ages, battery is getting a bit tired on it now, but I'll no doubt replace it with another similar one.
Prawny, how did you like the 3 compared to the hr?
I have an Edge 200 solely for logging distance covered on local rides and a new Explore for long distance navigation - both are brilliant for what I use them for.
Having said that a number of the guys have 500/800's and have complained about there function and battery life so is the issue just with those two models?
Bleurgh...
Vowed never to get a Garmin after the utter piece of crap that is my Edge 500.
Hung onto it for far longer than I wanted as there was no viable alternative.
Cue Wahoo! Thank the lord. Now own an Element Bolt and love it.
It's largely similar, sleep tracking is better and the ability to store music on the watch is something I liked about the apple watch so to me that's a big improvement. Biggest bonus is that it isn't horrific to look at.
Aye, I may go for the music version, mainly for podcasts, although I pretty much always take my phone running and cycling.
Hmmm...
I've a 520 and it's been good and I've had no issues with it. The fact that I have to set everything up navigating dozens of button pushes on it rather than on my phone or pc when they are connected to it is frankly ridiculous.
they’re big in marine and aviation
Their marine kit is full of bugs too, they just release software too soon and full of bugs, but despite this they're still the best.
I always take my phone on my bike and used to take it on runs, but it's liberating not having to take it running. The non music one is slightly better looking though, and cheaper. Amazon were pumping them out at £135 the other week.
It's also the shocking number of bits of software they seem to spew out. Base camp, Garmin Express, Web Updater, Map Manager. Not surprised they can't keep up with their own stuff.
What do you mean by bundled software?
For a Pc?
I think the are just designed to be more standalone devices now, like mobile phones.
Lezyne micro is better than my older Garmin's & easier software
Also vivoactive is the least accurate tracker by a mile (well several actually)
https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2019/04/unreliable-marathon-fitness-trackers/
Ok it was a treadmill test, maybe it took off 😉
No, it Was the vivosmart.
Seen that on the beeb yesterday, anyone who expected a fitness tracker with no GPS to be accurate wants their head read. 🤣
I had a 510 from just after they came out until earlier this year when it crashed at the end of a ride and then wouldn't work - it wouldn't remember my settings such as preferred units or weight & height - I was a 4018 pound, 4'2" high eight year old apparently, no wonder Americans have a health problem if that's the default! I think the memory chip had developed problems.
I replaced it with an Edge 520 and that's been fine so far.
Like Colin I've also got an Oregon 600, had it at least two years, possibly three. Again it's been fine. There was one instance when riding in the Peak I thought the mapping had broken, it turned out I'd zoomed out so far that the Earth was a small circle hiding behind the location cursor! Can't blame Garmin for that one.
All units have their foibles, the Oregon won't handle external batteries in a sane way for example, but if you take time to set them up then they generally work.
No problem with Edge 800, Mac, Basecamp, Garmin Map Installer and Garmin Express here.
The key for me I think is plugging the Edge in and waiting until it appears on the desktop before trying to do anything. Once this has happened, it's all good.
Garmin Connect is almost dangerously bad for route planning, I have in the past found that moving one waypoint will cause it to randomly modify other portions of the route, something I only discovered when I was slavishly following the route on my Edge 25 and ended up benighted somewhere above Cumbernauld...
It also updates more than bloody Windows and I never know what new quirks to expect after each update. Half a commute to find GPS signal was the most recent one...
Basecamp on PC. Just about the most powerful route planning and editing system.
Off-road, for yourself, possibly. For anyone preparing routes for a group to use, or where you want to navigate at street level, it’s the most abysmal, ill-conceived, buggy, illogical heap of poo ever assembled for the public to use. “Oh I want to send this route to a mate, but no I can’t cos I need his actual motorbike’s GPS on my desk right here, right now plugged in because some halfwit decided the concept of offline maps might allow people to easily share information across platforms.”
Tyre or MyRoute-app with off-road capability would be stunning. Especially with the ability MyRoute-app has to use different processor platforms - you can then see exactly what a TomTom, Garmin, Oregon thinks the track joining the waypoints should look like.
Forerunner 235 for me is effortless. I use it with iPad and Android phone plus Mac and it just works, even uploading every activity to Straava when complete..
For the iPad I also run ConnectStats for a different look at the numbers.
I generally don't have a big issue with Garmin software-as long as everything is kept up to date it all seems to work fine. I do wonder if they're in a bit of a no-mans land though between a hardware and software vendor. They can't compete with software specialists like Strava - Garmin Connect was heading in the right direction but is just a poor imitation of Strava with limited reach, being Garmin only.
I feel like they should just focus on hardware and just enough software offload the data out to other apps.
I sort of know where you are coming from, my old 800 drives me nuts, Garmin connect on the pc is clunky. Garmin express sometimes updates Strava, sometimes decides not to, and the 800 often changes some of the display information to sometimes completely random like average temperature if not used regularly. That said I have a Fenix 5x that connects to my phone and it is faultless, and the Garmin app on the phone does exactly what it says on the tin.
Have been using the Edge 1000 for several years and found it almost faultless. The software was always a bit clunky in my experience, but "worked". Prefer other systems for looking at my data, or plotting routes - so by "worked" I guess I mean efficiently uploading to Strava etc.
The power on/off button the on the 1000 broke off a month or two back, and so I picked up an 820 to replace it as the new 830 was due and 820's were on sale.
Works just like the 1000, but the gradient of a hill goes nuts sometimes and just reads zero when I know it's easily over 10% or whatever... but can put up with that if it's the only fault.
Edge 1000 - I swear and curse at it every time it's on my bars. It [i]works[/i] ok, (well. except when it just decides to stop following where you are), but it's just so non-intuitive. The maps are great, but when you just want something to easily follow a route, or record a route, the software on the device stinks.
I feel like they should just focus on hardware and just enough software offload the data out to other apps.
Pretty much what Wahoo has done with the Elemnt. Seamless synching. Connects direct to your wifi network and uploads to Strava automatically when you get home. Synchs with Komoot so you just create or upload your routes to there then follow then with turn-by-turn on the road. The screen is monochrome, but easy to read. Shows your starred Strava segments live if you like that sort of thing. Will show alerts from your smartphone if you want it to. Button-operated control so no touchscreen issues in the wet or with heavy gloves. Straightforward user-interface. It just works a lot more smoothly than anything from Garmin I've tried.
I've had a Garmin 810 for 2.5 years now. Due to "issues" uploading routes, I've only recently started using it anger. Those issues were courses overwriting themselves on upload, so after adding 5 new files only one would appear. A silly amount of time spent working out how to make it work, including some Garmin forum posts from 7+ years ago.
I also tried to buy a new watch from them recently - after 7 weeks it still hadn't turned up so cancelled it. Quite glad now, will look at alternatives.
My experience:
I’ve had a 510 foe about a year and a half, prior to this I had a mapping one I forget the name of before this.
The 520 - when it works it good, however I do wonder when I get home after each ride if it’s going to upload from Connect to Strava without any drama.
If I could justify the cost I’d get a Wahoo Bolt - but until the 520 gives up the ghost I’ll keep it.
Happy enough with my 520 (and the 500 I had before it), although a bit more battery life would be welcome as I’m often running low after a decent Sunday ride.
Connect is a bit crap though, I only leave it on my phone for the uploading to TP, Strava etc.
720xt here .
No issues with connect on my phone.
It does seem some users blame Garmin when it appears to be a phone related issue.
Fwiw everyone I personally know who went to wahoo bolts ended up back on Garmin in short order. They ain't better just different issues.
Is it a 735xt you have Terry?
Garmin 800 and 810 in the household.
Both randomly stopped uploading automatically to Garmin Connect (and therefor Strava).
I've given up trying ot make it work and justmanually import the file now.
Both had spates of just crashing randomly, but seemed fine again until the other weekend when I saw mine (800) shut down during a ride. Managed to eventually get it to boot back up, but if I'd not noticed it, then I would have lost a chunk of the ride (yeah, I know - 1st world problems).
Might look at the Wahoo Element as it would be nice to know for sure that it would work, but it seems wasteful to discard mine when it works most of the time.
after a selection of garmins and the various pains i just gave up
and went to a wahoo. been perfect from day 1.
To be fair, if you read the Wahoo users group on Google there's plenty of complaints, and even people saying they've had enough and they'll never buy a Wahoo again. (A category I fall into myself.)
Different people are going to hit different problems: I'll never encounter any issues with connecting a power meter or doing whatever Strava does, and some people aren't going to encounter issues syncing their RideWithGPS routes or fussing over certain aspects of navigation. So different devices will (since they all have their quirks) work better or worse for different people.
Personally I've always found Garmins have their foibles but it's been rare that they've completely let me down; and they do at least have a reasonable idea about navigation. What they do seem to get broadly right is hardware: they're pretty durable and reliable on that front (obviously some people's experiences will differ), it's the glitchy firmware and stuck-in-the-90s desktop applications that are the issues.
Two things have baffled me in the near-20 years I've been using them.
Firstly that the whole interface and usability of them has barely changed, despite there being some fairly obvious potential for improvement. The same for the mapping: the maps on the current devices look just like the first colour eTrexes, with pointless clutter and poor contrast.
The second is that, given Garmin's lack of change and their firmware glitches, it still took until, what, five years ago? before anyone really challenged them. Bonkers. (Hence I was quite excited by the Wahoos when they came out.)
Anyway, I'm liking the promised battery life of the 530/830, even if as usually seems to be the case the reality is only about two thirds of Garmin's fantasy figures. I'm quite tempted by the 530.
Sorry Greg your right 735xt.
Been happy with it and the Garmin connect apl and website.
I didn't realise they still bundled their desk top software these days.
Thought it was all cloud based.
I've had edge 205
Forerunner 305
Edge 500
Etrex 30
And a 735 xt.
Wife's had an edge 500 and a 735xt.
Issues we have had over the years was a loose connection on the charger on the 205
the rear lugs broke off on my 500 after years and years of being clipped on and off.
And the forerunner doesn't like windows 10 much and took a few work around a but then it is an antiquated bit of gear having been im service since 2004.
735 manage 10 under okay then? I've a couple of 12 hour plus plans for this year, I'd like one that'll last that long.
the 735 is plenty good for 12 hours - not much more unless you start switching things off - but there are options to turn things off , they also charge VERY fast so if you have a battery pack in a feed zone a quick top up goes along way.
I use an Ant + HR strap for any kind of effort
I finished 10 under with 15% left - and that was me charging it on the way the night before - if you were charging it up till the event you would probably get a bit longer.
It died at about 12.5hrs on the Cairngorm loop in september - then i moved to the edge 500 after that for the next 12 hours.
With a perfect battery and a chest hr sensor in Ultra track mode the 735 should manage 20hrs + (They say 24hrs).
From past experience with an old Polar monitor the last couple of hours data on 20+ hr races don’t tell you much more than your complete lack of power and coordination tell you and everyone else, but I suppose its nice to have a record.
We have a lot of Garmin devices in the household as my other half is into triathlons. None of them miss a beat although they don't really use any software other than that built into devices.
Everything is synched and uploaded to other apps, all of which works very well.
Go-Pro on the other hand, complete and utter piece of tripe. Bought a Hero 7 black and the video quality is stunning. They have nailed it with hypersmooth - but the software in the camera is shocking. Turns itself off, stops responding after recording, locks up. Basically un-usable so got sent back which is a real shame as the quality when in use is superb.
ultratrac seemed ok for running - its essentially switching between treadmill and run outdoor settings but i found it to be pretty bad at mtb - not sure if its the bouncing , the variance in speed or what but it just got all confused.
all my long distance stuff has been on a bike.
Its a bit of a lottery I think.
I've had a Forerunner something or other for years (probably about 8 years). Its been used a lot and works well. I've not updated the firmware for years which I think has helped to keep it working.....
I've had a 810 and a 520. Had the 810 for years, but only because at the time there was no viable alternative. Most buggy piece of kit I have ever had. It couldn't cope with being connected to my phone and also route following, it would just power itself off. Would be fine if I wasn't following a route. Each time there was a firmware upgrade I'd get some other new bug that would be fixed by a subsequent upgrade (or a new garmin version being released).
I thought it was just my device and decided to get the 520, I'd then get rides that were a direct straightline and at approx. 50mph. Had the device for less than a month before I gave up on Garmin. (I have an eTrex that has been impeccable though)
I then bought a Lezyne Micro Super Enhanced GPS, for non mapping rides this was good, worked everytime, but mapping wasn't that intuitive and the out front mount snapped getting the device off.
My Wahoo Bolt has not given me any problems in over a year. But the mapping isn't anywhere near as good as the Garmin 810 when it stayed powered on. I've gotten to the point where I don't use it for mapping, but it could be me being a luddite - from memory it didn't redirect back to a route if you miss a turn. On road that's not too much of an issue, but off-road it can be confusing.
I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm fortunate my Edge 800 works smoothly, no glitches. Also with all these connected things.. if I'm at a point where its all working, leave it alone. Updates usually screw it up and then it needs settling again.
My Garmin has always been faulty. Always shown 100% battery, even when been on for 10hrs.
Yesterday’s ride I was following a course pre loaded on the device. Got home, did upload and my ride and course had vanished from the device!
I have a TomTom for running and also bought a layzene that were £50 and they have both been faultless, more accurate and easier to use compared to Garmin.
Another Wahoo convert here, the best thing is that it just works simply, plot a route in Komoot or RidewithGPS and there it is in Wahoo app.
Got the email from Charlie for the Gravel Dash with the .gpx, just press and hold on iphone on the email attachment and it says "send to Wahoo" and it's there on app and on the headunit.
It just works seamlessly, the navigation isn't as brilliant as on a top end Garmin, but it will still be navigating after 12 hours, it won't have switched itself off, won't of lost the plot because it rained nor decided i am in a different country.
I had 6 different Garmin over the years and every one was glitchy in some way and two just stopped working
I'm wondering if part of the problem is the vast array of navigation software - Komoot, RWGPS, GPSies, Strava, mapmyride, Memory Map...
When you export a .gpx or .tcx file, the theory is that it should all be the same but differnet platforms and slightly different settings seem to give wildly varying results - sometimes it'll decide that you MUST go on this trail or bridleway even though everything is set to "ROAD" but then you find a setting buried in the GPS itself that says "re-route to avod highways" or "TOURING" or some other bollocks and the unit has decided to overwrite the perfectly good file you've uploaded to it.
You get that the other way round as well and the problem with Garmin is that it is NEVER a consistent error - my Edge Touring has done numerous re-routes of it's own volition but never in a manner where I know that it's Setting X or Option Y that's to blame.
And then if you don't re-route as per it's instructions, the idea of just navigating to the next point along is clearly too much for the unit to cope with and it'll either insist on a U-turn or just crash.
Before my 510 gave up the ghost a weird problem started earlier last year - when connected to the computer to upload rides to Garmin Connect which I've then got synched with Strava I'd get a "Failed to sync" message. I'd assumed it was the Connect => Strava connection as by coincidence it started with my first ride after GDPR came in to force so I thought it had something to do with that. I just manually copied the ride to my computer and uploaded it to Strava as a workaround.
I so rarely open Garmin Connect (says a lot) that it was only when I happened to open it that I noticed that best part of a year's worth of rides were "missing" so the 510 => computer comms was borked. That led down the rabbit hole of Garmin support - don't go there!
but then you find a setting buried in the GPS itself
That's my consistent issue with Garmin software. Forget hardware and compatibility issues and flaky uploads, they just seem incapable of constructing a user interface where things are where you'd expect them to be.
Years ago I was on a Garmin event where they were demoing their latest outdoor navigation unit. I showed one of the Garmin guys there, the procedure for re-setting the trip meter on the unit. The intuitive solution would have been a button on the trip meter pages saying like 'reset', instead you had to go back to the home menu, then scroll through sub-menus until you reached a 'reset' menu, which you then had to access and select the tripmeter option and then reset it before going back to the tripmeter page.
Not a problem said the Garmin guys. The great thing is our software can be revised really quickly. A year later it was still exactly the same.
It just always seems to me to be unnecessarily fiddly and non rational to use. It's as if no-one ever considers usability to be an important part of the software. I realise there's an element of subjectivity about this and maybe my head and Garmin's head work in very different ways, but using an electronic device shouldn't be an endless battle against the operating system.
Stuff should mostly just work. You shouldn't need to download the manual repeatedly - hello Garmin Fenix - just to work out how the thing works again and again.
And then if you don’t re-route as per it’s instructions, the idea of just navigating to the next point along is clearly too much for the unit to cope with and it’ll either insist on a U-turn or just crash.
I do that 🙁
Hilarious that I can't even figure out how to post on the Garmin Support Forum to try and seek some way of resolving this problem. Unbelievable.
Edge Touring
Edge 200 (now sold)
Edge 130
Touring gets used infrequently when i need navigation. Anything other than 'follow line superimposed on map' is hopeless IME. As is the postcode lookup (took me a street 2 miles from where i wanted to go last time I used it). Unit defaults to factory settings every so often.
Edge 130. decision to prioritise size over battery life was a poor one. Barometric altitude data is useless unless you manually calibrate it every ride. Far worse in real world than taking gps data (why not just take a gps reading when switched on and then take baro from there?)
Garmin *Connect* actually seems fairly reliable - the 130 uploads via my phone, connect sends to Strava. Connect does also seem to fairly reliably send a 130 recorded track to the Touring.
Trip reset on my Oregon takes 3 clicks.
One to bring up details of the current track.
One to save it or delete it.
And one to confirm reset. I could remove this 3rd one if I was always sure it was what I wanted.
Not a problem said the Garmin guys. The great thing is our software can be revised really quickly. A year later it was still exactly the same.
Yeah, their usability mostly sucks, and it's barely changed in 20 years. Mind you, I've had similar with Wahoo… "yeah, great idea, we'll add that to our list", then they bin it.
The whole market sector always seems bizarrely complacent when it comes to firmware.
Had to laugh/cry at Wahoo's big build up to a new product at Sea Otter recently. Alongside all their teaser publicity, lots of people had picked up the FCC filing of an "Elemnt Roam" device. "Ooh," I thought, wondering whether for once I could stop being cynical about them, "maybe—maybe—they're releasing a touring/navigation oriented device…" What did we get? A coloured casing for the Bolt. Pass the champagne.
6 year old 800 here. All I want is it to show map, course line and a little arrow showing where I am. Does that perfectly and seemingly easier than comparible wahoo units. Battery life is waining though. Down to about 10 hours. Garmin Dakota as back up device.
Has anyone used the new Sigma Rox 12 Sport?
A friend has just been given one (cos she's a really good ultra endurance rider) and all the reviews (inc DCRainmaker) say it's fantastic, a million miles better than any of the old clunky Sigma stuff, well up there with Garmin etc.
But then said friend, who is not the greatest with techology it has to be said, phoned me yesterday and we spent 40 minutes on the phone while she tried to get this Sigma to connect and upload a route. Managed it eventually but she has vast experience with long distance route stuff and she was just saying "what is wrong with plug-n-play?!" Just want to plug device in, copy .gpx across. But no, it requires an account with Sigma Data Centre (the Sigma equivalent of Garmin Connect) and then syncing with my Strava and then.....
However the reviews of the actual device look good. I'm tempted.
I've contemplated it now that it can be had for a reasonable price, but from reading around it does seem to be a bit clunky to get routes onto it. Maybe I've got high expectations but we ought to be at the stage where I can get my RWGPS routes onto a device without having to use a desktop/laptop to do it. With Garmin I can do that through a (slightly buggy) third party Connect IQ app, and with Wahoo I can do it via wifi but not via my phone (because the app goes batshit crazy and Wahoo don't seem willing or able to fix it). I'm not sure anything else supports that.
I'm also pretty wary of touchscreens. The 800/Touring was sort of ok, being resistive (ie it was kinda crap, but reliable and insensitive to weather), but a capacitive screen is easy to get badly wrong (as many 820 users apparently know quite well).
I've been incredibly impressed by the touchscreen on my Explore, though. Works faultlessly in rain and with thick gloves (haven't tried my super-toasty lobsters, to be fair), and it's pretty responsive.
A friend has just been given one (cos she’s a really good ultra endurance rider) and all the reviews (inc DCRainmaker) say it’s fantastic
I didn't like the bit in the DCRainmaker review where he questions its weather-proofing.
I'm constantly amazed at how the most basic stuff gets screwed up. The latest Satmap 20 unit, for example, is kind of brilliant at what it does mostly despite being the size of a house-brick, has amazing map reproduction and both buttons and a touchscreen, but... features a micro USB port cover that simply falls off the unit. It comes with a spare and you can buy further replacements in packs of five, but honestly, if I'd just spent 450 quid or more on a GPS unit, I think it would be reasonable to expect the USB port cover to stay securely attached.
Wife has an Edge 130, i have an 820.
The 820 touchscreen and overall response is frustratingly slow. I got the 820 because of the map routing capabilities...well, it takes 5-10 minutes for even the simplest directions. by then i pulled my phone, checked the directions and figured where i need to go.
The 130 on the other hand, is fast, simple, and very easy to use.
But yes, i don't know what they think. the software is complete crap.
Alongside all their teaser publicity, lots of people had picked up the FCC filing of an “Elemnt Roam” device. “Ooh,” I thought, wondering whether for once I could stop being cynical about them, “maybe—maybe—they’re releasing a touring/navigation oriented device…” What did we get? A coloured casing for the Bolt. Pass the champagne.
Be a wee bit more patient or do a spot more googling. 😉
I mean, I've seen the rumours/mockups/whatever of the Roam device. It looks like the existing devices but with a colour screen (which might aid clarity, or might not perform well in sunlight). I have serious doubts about their keenness to do a better job of navigation, though. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Oops. I just ordered a 530. If the battery life is close to the quoted figures then, assuming no major firmware bogeys, it's a winner.
But no, it requires an account with Sigma Data Centre (the Sigma equivalent of Garmin Connect) and then syncing with my Strava and then...
Remember, the most important thing is that they get your data...This is true of all of them, Sigma, Strava, Garmin Wahoo...
Bought a Vivoactive 3 yesterday, to replace my bombproof Vivoactive HR, considered a few other of their offerings, but I do like a touch screen, and don't like big buttons on a watch.
Lots of new features (new to me anyway!) to like.
Oops. I just ordered a 530. If the battery life is close to the quoted figures then, assuming no major firmware bogeys, it’s a winner.
I look forward to the review / update!
If the battery life is close to the quoted figures
assuming no major firmware bogeys
Some pretty bold assumptions given the history, I hope you aren't disappointed. I'm tempted to go for the 530 for the extra processor speed and buttons instead of touch screen over my current 820
If it’s nowhere near the quoted times then to my mind it’s fair enough to send it back.
The longest ride I’d do in a single day (and I’m flattering myself here because since having a second small person this pretty much hasn’t happened) would be about 14 hours, so that’s my threshold for being happy enough. The Bolt would just about manage that; the Explore might scrape it in battery saver mode (which I actually kind of like, other than that it limits the screen brightness to 50%, which hampers it badly on sunny days and is a bit silly because the main feature of battery saver mode is that the screen is almost always off anyway).
My ballpark is normally about 70% of Garmin’s quoted battery life, so in theory the 530 should meet that with the screen always on and double it in saver mode.
Supposedly Garmin have changed the way they quote battery life; not sure whether it’s more or less flattering now, but I’m sure they must have been quoting best case before, so we’ll see.
I look forward to the review / update!
I still haven’t Had My Reckon about the Explore, so I’ll probably write some guff about that and the 530 together.
Because cycling is a tiny part of their global market – they’re big in marine and aviation so that’s where the money goes.
The UX isn’t actually any better in those areas, but the competition is worse (if you think Garmin is clunky, try using Lowrance for the first time with no manual). I wonder if Garmin really make more money in Marine still?
Anyway I’m convinced it’s because 1. The software design is based around the hardware not the user. 2. The hardware engineers are leading the design - to them it’s obvious how stuff should work because they know how the hardware works. 3. They are trying to do too much. Probably driven by a CEO or Marketing Manager telling the designers he wants to see features to compete with fit bit and strava rather than seeing How to leverage those services...
Whilst we are having a collective moan: I have an Edge Touring, which is a great little device and does a huge amount for the money, except for a few glaring problems.
1) You can have it route you to a particular point or circular set of waypoints, like a car GPS, which is brilliant - but the routes it chooses can be utterly batshit mental, and you've got little control over it. Ok so this is quite a hard problem to solve, but still. I don't use this a lot, and if I do I don't follow it blindly. It's obsessed with cycle routes and will take you miles out of your way to take in short bits of cycle path. There are three routing profiles that allow you to in theory change its preferences, but there's no documentation as to what they actually do, and they all seem insane.
2) The most annoying thing is that when you upload your own route, sometimes if you get poor GPS signal it inserts a turn point 6000km away into your route. The next turn prompt then becomes something like 'head east for 6000km' followed by the rest of your prompts as you'd expect. This means that you never get the next real turn prompt. Not such a problem in the daytime because you keep looking at the thing and can follow the purple line. But at night, the device is dark until you get to a turn point, so you end up missing your turnings. This probably cost me 45 mins on my Ridgeway Double ride. It seems much better if you use something like bikehike to create routes as you get far more course points than if you click manually with say Tracklogs, but you aren't always in control of how the routes are created. You can also prevent the getting lost part by leaving the backlight on all the time but this isn't ideal if you are trying to preserve battery.
3) They seem to have introduced a bug where the backlight changes brightness to minimum. This can be solved by then resetting the brightness value, but it's annoying. A solution is again to leave it on all the time, which is ok for normal rides. Reduces battery life to about 6-7 hours.
