CZ, I think what you've posted there is 'cycling' rather than MTB and I'd agree it looks like a thoroughly pleasant day out.
But MTB likes to present itself more like this - and you can see why people might find it daunting and unapproachable. If I was 16 again I would think that this was super cool. But now as an arthritic middle aged man I just can't be arsed. My hand hurts just looking at it. And MrsDoris would never have been remotely interested in this kind of thing - although she would probably enjoy CZ's trip above.
I started in my 30’s! Hardly a picture of athletic youth! I’m an arthritic man who’s just turned 71. So there ya go.
The constant negative statements like "They are lazy", "They are fat", "They are not real mountain bikers" are an attempt to drive people away. Hence gatekeeping.
And having bikes that climb much faster by the use of electricity, on the same trails puts other people off. Having constant smart remarks as people on ebikes cruise past on hills doesn't put people off.
Thats also gatekeeping
> Trying to persuade others to play our game rather than the game they do play?
Do you think "our game" is in finite supply? More people on bikes and mountain bikes is always good, no?
The only people it seems to put off is grumpy people who already own and ride MTBs. I’ve been overtaken, tyre buzzed and cut up by more Strava chasing XC dicks than ebikers.
Meh, Within a wider social context MTBing is a “fad” that’s not to say it isn’t a good thing to get into or indeed that it doesn’t stick with some of us of course, but it’s not the centre of most people’s universe.
The problems it faces currently are a due to the Images that get projected in promotional stuff, people doing rad gnally stuff, that’s probably only 10% of what MTB is as a whole and really only a committed few engage in that regularly. Similarly the cost aspects, you can get a perfectly adequate MTB for a few hundred quid, same as any other flavour of bike, but that’s not what is promoted, instead when punters read round up articles that label £2k bikes as “affordable” and see headline RRPs north of £10k for an E-bike…
Basically a huge chunk of the media output around MTBing is going to put of those who are casually interested or don’t have a couple of grand and every other weekend to invest in the “sport”. Add to that various class/race/gender imbalances (cycling in general is “Stale, Male and Pale’)…
And the existing fans of MTBing can’t understand why they’re not overrun with new riding buddies?
My own take is that people have to already be a bit into riding bikes already to want to understand the various sub-niches of MTB and get into it, the rout for “newbies” into MTBing is increasingly going to be via road, CX and/or Gravel cycling and those entrants are not going to be immediately comfortable with rock strewn descents and jumping over gaps.
I see the word “progression” used a lot on various forums and in MTB related Meeja content and while I’ve perhaps rolled my eyes at another bullshit buzzword entering the MTB lexicon, it’s probably an apt description of what the few people who now take up MTBing are looking for. Structure and measurement for how they’re developing at what, to them, is an established “sport”…
That’s the route by which it grows now unfortunately, much less hacking about in the woods with mates…
The constant negative statements like "They are lazy", "They are fat", "They are not real mountain bikers" are an attempt to drive people away. Hence gatekeeping.
It would be “gatekeeping” except these are people already participating who clearly haven’t got a problem with any financial hurdles, they’ve already gotten past any gatekeepers. And yep they are being a bit lazy, that’s OK life doesn’t have to be a constant game of maximum effort, hence e-bikes exist. But if they’re riding about with a chip on their shoulder, sat atop of a very obvious symbol of the financial and technological arms race within the MTB market someone is going to notice and maybe try to bruise their fragile ego with mean words.
It’s like sitting amongst the home fans at a Chelsea game, wearing an Arsenal shirt and getting all uppety when someone says something, you are going to get comments, either learn to deal with it, or find some other activity where participants are completely devoid of all opinions…
When I started mtb'ing in the late 80's you could buy a reasonable bike for £500 which would go anywhere, and we did ride them everywhere, and learn't how to fix and maintain them at relatively low cost- we didn't need x number of high value accessories just to ride our bikes either. What's happened now in all forms of cycling is that 'performance' level good kit has become ridiculously expensive with needless levels of tech and 'must have' USP's of every brand pushing the cost beyond what is attainable for a lot of the population. Cycling has become more elitist, and cynically skewed towards a wealthier ageing demographic, selling fewer units at higher pricepoints -see it in road, see it in mtb, seen it working in the trade. It is not a good look and will bite further down the line. Grassroots is really important for any sport, in our over-commodified world its easy to forget that. Its worth remembering that riding really simple mtb's (atb's) is really good too...
It would be “gatekeeping” except these are people already participating
I think you missed Xora's point, which AIUI is that disabled folk who might be interested in trying out ebiking see the stick that the existing ebikers get and decide (rightly or wrongly) that it's not worth the grief.
It's not that they're doing it and finding it annoying, its that they're put off from trying in the first place.
We are preaching to the converted here.
Here's what I have seen. Youngsters are keen but obviously can't afford decent bikes. Most parents won't pay much more than 200 quid for something that might get nicked (kids get more grief than adults) or left in the garden to rust away. I need this 2 grand bike dad, son you better rethink this hobby of yours! Younger generations ability to travel is to some degree dictated by their parents who may or may not be keen to help!
Even within my generation there is a divide of people who just view it as a childish endeavour/waste of time "you going out to play on your BMX" is one the retorts I have had. If you aren't engaged in more profit, BTL, better house, better car, better holidays most people around my age don't see any value in it.
Lots of good points above.
In my view
Its get people on bikes and then some may go mountain biking, if they want to.
Bikes are the future to towns and cities, thats the push thats needed.
if you get the bug you will find the biking aspect you prefer.
i remember when some people called mountain biking a ride to the pub back in the 90's.and most of them do not ride bikes now at all from those I know and they can well afford it.
I also remember searching out grassy paths, embankments beside subways and anythjng not paved when I lived for short time in city and rode around it on my mtb. To make my commute a bit more interesting. It made me feel good maybe a bit different, the yearly trip to a mtb centre was very special.
I also remember putting cow horn handlebars on my road bike as a teenager and riding it off road.
Life evolves and some choose different paths , some bike, some do not. We need to make cycling more normal and everyday.
"Mountain biking" industry media etc does miss the less gnarley stuff and the way you can explore like a walker yet move faster and maybe even push on occasions , its not all about jumps,drops and berms.
Its about riding a bike.
A mountain bike may make some aspects of the sport you prefer to do easier.
Or just get a cheap bike ,ride it to work and then mtb home on the grassy bits!
Maybe do a jump of a kerb.
Its excercise and fun
Oneday you may do what we do and search out more mountain bike stuff,save up for a bike.
I remember a feature of Greg Callaghan doing a DH course.on a road bike faster than an ex Pro roadie on an mtb.
I see my neigbours kid doing (terrible) wheelies outside he is not a mtb rider really and plays other sports . Its his preffered interest.
He may go onto ride more in later life or leave his bike out in the rain like he does now and do something else instead.
Possibly because of lack of publicity and press coverage. Brits won a gold and two silver medals at the European mtb championships and got a small mention on the bbc sport website if you go searching for cycling.
It's not mentioned on here just things sponsored by RedBull.
Possibly because of lack of publicity and press coverage. Brits won a gold and two silver medals at the European mtb championships and got a small mention on the bbc sport website if you go searching for cycling.
To be fair it completely passed me by that the TdF finished last weekend, I watched it on catchup last night!
I think without Wiggins/Cav/Froome cycling's fallen off the radar a bit so we're back to Clare Baldings inane commentary at he Olympics once every 4 years.
There is no reason why Singletrack could not have put a report on the front page. They chose to promote a soft drinks manufacturer instead. The editorial here as become very focused on jumpy down hilly bike and is very one dimensional.
I think you missed Xora's point, which AIUI is that disabled folk who might be interested in trying out ebiking see the stick that the existing ebikers get and decide (rightly or wrongly) that it's not worth the grief.
It's not that they're doing it and finding it annoying, its that they're put off from trying in the first place.
It did pass me by TBH as his own disability was noted once in his earlier post, but also lets be honest E-MTBs/E-bikes are really not being marketed to the disabled are they. They're being pitched as a labour saving version of the bicycle, they're the new Dandyhorse aimed at those with the cash to throw at fancy (disposable?) Toys, which is fine, but lets not pretend well paid Dentists and Personal Finance advisors rolling about trail centres on £10k E-rigs every other Sunday are an oppressed minority...
At the same time, outside of this forum I don't actually pick on e-bike riders, I would not say anything negative to the riders of E-MTBs in the real world. I question just how much real life "gatekeeping" E-MTBers are encountering. If you're taking negative comments received online to heart, close the browser and go ride outside, most people are much nicer off the interwebs.
To be fair it completely passed me by that the TdF finished last weekend, I watched it on catchup last night!
Personally I blame WB/Discovery, They've hoovered up lots of cycling rights and put as much coverage behind the TNT paywall as they can. That doesn't help general awareness or engagement. There are of course other threads covering that particular issue. It is worth noting though that professional competitive cycling isn't all there is to cycling...
How many mountain bikers do you see with a big grin?
Vs
Have you ever seen a runner or a roadie smiling?
You should have seen my grin riding down from the top of the road from Dylife to Machynlleth this weekend, that road is just incredible.. Or along the B4392 near Hidden Valley with a tailwind, or the stunning B4407. The MTBer's trope that road riding is joyless watts monitoring is fair to an extent I reckon (MTBer at heart here, rode with a road club a bit and .. nah) but road riding, to someone who simply likes to ride, can be a joy and exhillarating. As well as far more accessible and less dirty/techy/'extreme' than MTB. Not hard to see why it's a lot more popular overall, and truth is the dour club roadie is the minority. Trail running is also growing more than MTB. I like it because of the lack of kit needed, it's simple and it gets you outdoors. I think MTB has become too tech-nerdy for many with all the mid stroke compression this and digital gear tech that - it's popular with mainly blokes for the same reason engines or model trains are. Simpler is funner. MTB is funnest I agree, but many just don't get that far into it.
“The editorial here as become very focused on jumpy down hilly bike and is very one dimensional.”
Have you read the magazine in recent years?! It’s mostly about riding bikes to go places and looking at nice views.
I’d much prefer it was like Dirt (RIP) because I might not be a hardcore downhiller (at all!) but I get the time to ride my bike as hard as I can for a few hours a week and I don’t get to go on nice multi-day away trips, especially overseas.
Add "perceived" in front wherever you like...
- Cost
- Complexity
- Knowledge
- Lack of proximity to suitable trails
- Cultural / social norms and / or barriers
- Time constraints
- Lack of appetite for danger / interest in scenery / physical challenges
To answer another point we have seen lots of happy roadies this week in the Southern Lakes, many a cheery wave. We've also been road riding this week and it's been lovely, no drive to the trail head or any of that loading bikes in the car pain just grab the bike and bottles, clip in and go.
If you think encouraging people to mountain bike is difficult, try encouraging them to take up trials riding 🤣🤣🤣
Even most mountain bikers aren't interested 🤣
Lesson one of trials riding: no no no dont ride anywhere, nooooooo stop, stop pedalling... Just stand still perfectly balanced for as long as possible!
Nah you're alright mate thanks.
Having ridden tens of thousands of miles on my road bike & CX bike (which has been replaced with a gravel bike)... all I can say is riding a MTB is WAY more expensive and time consuming.
For starters, maintenance costs are a lot higher. I cycled 915 miles from Land's End to JOG years ago - all my bike needed was a chain clean when I got back. On the MTB, stuff wears out quicker and needs more attention. With that sort of mileage, I'd need 2x 50h services to the shock and fork... my dropper post. Plus whatever else needs replacing due to mud/crud/water etc. Even if you work on your own bike, there are still additional costs.
Also, unless you're really lucky, you'd need to factor in transport to riding locations - it isn't free, neither is parking (or entry) sometimes.
Then there's the cost of the kit to transport your bike(s) to and from those locations (depending on your vehicle)... the additional cleaning of your bike because it's ridden off-road, cleaning your riding gear, and possibly additional cleaning your car too.
So it isn't cheap or hassle free compared to riding from the house.
All things considered, it's not the most environmentally friendly form of cycling either... but it's suppressing my temptation to un-SORN the motorbike and go tear-arsing round the 'hood like a yob. 😂
A few musings on an interesting topic from me. I started riding off road when I was a kid, then rally burners came along and then mtbs. Great fun, relatively cheap and although I came from a poor background (sob sob 😄) I did grow up in the countryside, it was my playground...but kids are a too cosseted these days,broads are too busy etc...that's big barrier as I see it. Even my son's mates aged around 13-14 many wouldn't be allowed out to wander on bikes unsupervised now.
Another barrier I see is the image. I am pretty much a roadie these days but still love can xc blast or a gravel ride but xc isn't cool, I can turn up at a trail centre on my xc bike and get round but I get funny looks in my lycra. My bike isn't rad but it is affordable. The bike cost barrier is huge, although it doesn't need to be that huge but the image or to fit in makes it higher.
My son did some xc MTB races when he was about 8-10. OMG the other kids were on 5K bikes, competitive angry dad and his competitive angry son were in full effect. He did a few and didn't enjoy them in any way, but was happy riding round the woods with me still. Came home from primary school and announced he wanted to do a triathlon (I obviously beat him with big sticks and told him not to be so stupid but he still wanted too). Turned up to a Tri, had a great time in a far more inclusive and encouraging atmosphere. Who would have thought that.
Last week we did the six hour pairs race at 3six12 24. Son was nervous after poor experiences in kids races but in this adult field he was not shouted at, made to feel stupid or slow and had a great time. Note he did a faster lap on an £800 Rock Hopper than I did and a shop loaned £8k Epic Evo! Now obviously to many that £800 bike is too expensive but it does show that you can turn up on a cheap bike and get round and compete even if it looks like you can't. But how many kids have dads who get beg, steal or borrow bits and bikes from other biking mates?
My partner is heavily involved in trying to get more women into her road club..massive barrier is the worry over fixing, punctures or simple mechanicals. Girls are often not encouraged to ride when young and certainly not encouraged to learn how to maintain bikes. It's simple sexism. Most girls won't ride bikes to the school I work at and those that do are thought of as weird. It's simple sexism holding them back.
and that's before we start to consider the barriers ethnic minorities experience just getting out in the countryside.
Random musings over....
My partner is heavily involved in trying to get more women into her road club..massive barrier is the worry over fixing, punctures or simple mechanicals. Girls are often not encouraged to ride when young and certainly not encouraged to learn how to maintain bikes. It's simple sexism.
I'm thinking out loud here, but is this the case of women assuming that men know How To Do Stuff? Men might brazen it out, but just because they are men they don't necessarily know anything other than how to pedal. (See also, my wife assumed that I could fix the electrics in the kitchen when everything fused and tried to set fire to the toaster. Which of my male genes means that I automatically know how to rewire a house?)
“The editorial here as become very focused on jumpy down hilly bike and is very one dimensional.”
Have you read the magazine in recent years?! It’s mostly about riding bikes to go places and looking at nice views.
I read that and assumed that I'd woken up in an alternative reality where STW had become hardcore. I must have missed the articles about going for a picnic via Rheola DH track.
When I started mtb'ing in the late 80's you could buy a reasonable bike for £500 which would go anywhere, and we did ride them everywhere, and learn't how to fix and maintain them at relatively low cost- we didn't need x number of high value accessories just to ride our bikes either. What's happened now in all forms of cycling is that 'performance' level good kit has become ridiculously expensive with needless levels of tech and 'must have' USP's of every brand pushing the cost beyond what is attainable for a lot of the population
Step away from the internet for a sec and you'll find that entry level is vastly better than the pile of crap that was described as a £500 MTB in the 80s. The quickest of searches throws up a Scott Aspect 950 for RRP £500, discounted to £379*. Decent enough suspension and hydro brakes and a price that's so low in comparison to todays wages vs 80s wages that it's almost disposable.
Expensive stuff was expensive in the 80s, and if today's buyer doesn't understand how consumer marketing works then they must have been transported from the Stone Age.
Step away from the internet for a sec and you'll find that entry level is vastly better than the pile of crap that was described as a £500 MTB in the 80s. The quickest of searches throws up a Scott Aspect 950 for RRP £500, discounted to £379*. Decent enough suspension and hydro brakes and a price that's so low in comparison to todays wages vs 80s wages that it's almost disposable.
Trails have also moved on from the 80s. I bought a rigid Orange P7 with the Alivio groupset in 1997 and took it to Metabief that year and spent days doing laps of the World Champs downhill course.
Depends on what you mean by mountain biking, of course. However, I would NOT like to take that Scott to Nesbyen where I had my most recent mtb holiday.
However, I would NOT like to take that Scott to Nesbyen where I had my most recent mtb holiday.
You don't think that a newbie could have a reasonable day on the greens and blues at BPW on one of these?
Btw, if we're going to embark on one of your standard (pedantic and extremely literal) arguments, I didn't mean that every newbie was required to run out and buy one of these, just that the entry level is very, very good. And adjusting for inflation, you can still get very capable FS bikes for £1500 or less, which is roughly the equivalent of £500 in 1988.
Nobody looks at a new hobby, picks out the most expensive, desirable items and uses that as a barrier to entering the hobby. It's a non-argument.
I was refering to the front page on the website. There are three articles on the red bull jumping off a cliff. There are world downhill reports and numerous jumpy downhill bikes. Sure there are some other things but no report of the European XC where we won a gold and silver medal in the mens race and a silver in the womens.
If I was a new cyclist coming to the website i am not sure it would fill me with a desire to take up mountain biking.
I don't know about the magazine as I mostly put it straight under the coffee table as its seldom about anything I do.
The other thing that struck me was that unless you live somewhere suitable you need to travel to go mountain biking when you can access other cycling much closer to home.
For us now we tend to mountain bike on holiday and weekends away, where as we used to drive somewhere most weekends.
Btw, if we're going to embark on one of your standard (pedantic and extremely literal) arguments,
I love it when people decide to pre-emptively start throwing around insults in anticipation of having to defend their opinion. Maybe wait until I've actually started getting pedantic before accusing me of it?
I think it's difficult to compare eras, but I also think that at some point a 'standard' mountain bike has taken a bit of a jump in terms of capabilities. When I started 'proper' mountain biking in the 90s the difference between a £300 bike (which was generally accepted as being the minimum you could spend and still do proper mountain biking) and a £2000 bike wasn't really massive. That was back in the weight weenie days so tyres, geometry, and suspension was much the same and the price difference mostly came from saving 20g off each component.
So the differentiating factor between people mostly came down to athleticism and fitness.
By the way, in the mid 90s the values are roughly half so £300 would be around £600 today and £2000 would be around £4000. In the real world it's probably not that different to what real world people are paying for their bikes today.
Nowadays, most regulars at BPW would be on a bike that was much more capable than the Scott. Sure you could have a good time on the Greens and Blues but would the people you were with also have fun on their enduro bikes? How long could a group made up of Geometrons and Scott Aspects ride together before it started getting annoying for some people?
Like I said, comparing eras is difficult but the capabilities of bikes has definitely jumped and to me it feels like that has created a barrier that maybe wasn't there before.
I was refering to the front page on the website. There are three articles on the red bull jumping off a cliff. There are world downhill reports and numerous jumpy downhill bikes. Sure there are some other things but no report of the European XC where we won a gold and silver medal in the mens race and a silver in the womens.
Hardline was last weekend, so it should be on any UK MTB website. It's a headline event. You have to scroll down a fair bit to find the DH World Cup stuff. But yes, it would be nice to see other events mentioned.
xc isn't cool, I can turn up at a trail centre on my xc bike and get round but I get funny looks in my lycra.
Probably the lycra that gets funny looks, not the XC bike. XC is trails, trails is XC, XC WC is more 'enduro' level of tech than most of us ride on big bikes, XC is fine. But I think only roadies get normalised to lycra, most people do see it as a bit odd. Prob less odd for women on bikes compared to us middle aged blokes with hairy legs but for all of us I think cycling would seem more inviting if we left the lycra to the tour de france etc.
Lycra isn't worn anymore!! 😱
Damn - there's no way I'll every ride again if I need a whole new wardrobe as well! 🤣
I love it when people decide to pre-emptively start throwing around insults in anticipation of having to defend their opinion.
Is that an insult? I only have 23 minutes before I leave for home, so just don't have time for your normal barrage.
Nowadays, most regulars at BPW would be on a bike that was much more capable than the Scott.
Yeah, but we aren't talking about them.
Sure you could have a good time on the Greens and Blues but would the people you were with also have fun on their enduro bikes?
Why would the newbie be with a group of experienced riders? My observation at BPW is that there are plenty of people on cheaper bikes in their own peer groups.
Point being that you can still have fun on an entry level MTB, as you can on an expensive bike. Price isn't the barrier. I can also go birdwatching with a pair of £100 Hawke binoculars and don't need £2000 Swarovski bins despite the mags being full of adverts for them. I don't need a $5000 Les Paul to learn to play the guitar - a £100 Squier will be very capable.
Nobody gets put off learning to drive because they can't afford a Lamborghini.
16 minutes left, Bruce. 😉
My partner is heavily involved in trying to get more women into her road club..massive barrier is the worry over fixing, punctures or simple mechanicals. Girls are often not encouraged to ride when young and certainly not encouraged to learn how to maintain bikes. It's simple sexism. Most girls won't ride bikes to the school I work at and those that do are thought of as weird. It's simple sexism holding them back.
I strongly disagree. When I ran an after-school cycling activity (ACAT Level 1), girls attended as well as boys. How many? I can't remember - but nobody pressured them to pick it as an activity - it was their choice.
As far as practical skills are concerned, they all learn the same stuff in DT and Science etc. Boys and girls can do the same things if they want to - but behavioural and cognitive differences between the sexes can exist. We are trying to change that with institutional pressure - but one should consider that different people have different interests, skills and strengths... and may want to do different things.
Role models play a part - but if older generations are set in their ways, it's hard to change culture. Consider that differences between the sexes may also be cultural, rather than institutional.
If we feel the need to pressure/steer girls into being more like boys (it doesn't happen the other way round, which I find quite bizarre), we have to be careful because discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether it's positive or negative.
I'm thinking out loud here, but is this the case of women assuming that men know How To Do Stuff? Men might brazen it out, but just because they are men they don't necessarily know anything other than how to pedal. (See also, my wife assumed that I could fix the electrics in the kitchen when everything fused and tried to set fire to the toaster. Which of my male genes means that I automatically know how to rewire a house?)
I was at a LA meeting, and the subject of cycling came up. There was a bit of a discussion... of course the puncture/maintenance scenario came up. Someone said "I can't because I'm a woman".
I replied "if I man can do it, a woman can do it" - and I got quite a look from her, as if I murdered her grandmother, LOL.
Her response may be part of the problem (my reference RE role models) - a more appropriate response would have been "I'm not mechanically minded". And I would have said "pop round for a cuppa, and we can practice on my bike".
My dad wouldn't know how to fix a puncture, let alone which end to hold a screwdriver. Some people have no idea about mechanical stuff... and that's OK regardless of their chromosomes.
I bought my first mountain bike about 1990 it was a Kona Explosif and cost about £600 and had rigid forks and cantilever brakes. I loved it but probably a £1k bike would be way more capable with disks and suspension forks.
So I don't think bikes are the problem, except that a gravel bike will ride well on the roads, local cycle tracks and towpath and be much more versatile for every day use.
My first mountain bike was a Raleigh Activator bought from Kays catalogue!
And I rode in a Reebok shell suit and any trainers that were too hand.
Mountain biking was the fresh new thing back then though - now it's a very mature sport and isn't going to have the same attraction.
Prob less odd for women on bikes compared to us middle aged blokes with hairy legs
Should I shave my legs then?
strongly disagree. When I ran an after-school cycling activity (ACAT Level 1), girls attended as well as boys.
And roughly how many didn't attend?
As far as practical skills are concerned, they all learn the same stuff in DT and Science etc. Boys and girls can do the same things if they want to - but behavioural and cognitive differences between the sexes can exist
and so does sexism in how society shapes gender roles, to deny that would be most odd.
Role models play a part - but if older generations are set in their ways, it's hard to change culture.
Yes that's my point.
If we feel the need to pressure/steer girls into being more like boys (it doesn't happen the other way round, which I find quite bizarre)
Riding bikes makes girls more like boys? and Mrs anagallis helping women take first steps into riding bikes with a club is discrimination?
I think you sir seem to be part of the problem not the solution.
I know I've got a reputation for being argumentative but it honestly feels like some people on here specifically want to argue with ME. If I keep replying it's generally because I don't think the person I'm talking to has understood what I'm trying to say, not because I have to win.
In this case, you seem to not understand my point about the difference between starting out in the mid 90s and what I imagine it must be like to be starting out today.
Yeah, but we aren't talking about them.
No, but we are comparing eras. My point was that in the mid-90s it was mostly just mountain bikes. Which brings us to:
Why would the newbie be with a group of experienced riders? My observation at BPW is that there are plenty of people on cheaper bikes in their own peer groups.
Again, I'm going back to my early days but that was the way it happened for me (and imo is kind of essential to introducing people to the sport) where even if you were inexperienced you bought a £300 Carrera with crappy brakes, tyres, and geometry and you went riding with people who had £2000 Paces with crappy brakes, tyres, and geometry (but weighed literally hundreds of grams less and had square tubes).
Point being that you can still have fun on an entry level MTB, as you can on an expensive bike. Price isn't the barrier. I can also go birdwatching with a pair of £100 Hawke binoculars and don't need £2000 Swarovski bins despite the mags being full of adverts for them. I don't need a $5000 Les Paul to learn to play the guitar - a £100 Squier will be very capable.
You can absolutely have fun on an entry level mtb and it is absolutely far more capable than even high end bikes back in the day.
However, today the difference in capabilities between an entry level bike and a high end bike is much greater than it was in the 90s. Joining a club and finding my new tribe after my childhood friends stopped riding was very important for me to continue riding as I got older. I'm just not sure that a 16 year old pitching up at a mountain bike club today on his Scott would want to stay long if everyone else was riding 140mm+ full suspension trail bikes.
Two people can play guitar together even if one has a Les Paul and the other has a Squier. It used to be that way in mountain biking but I'm not sure if it still is.
Depends on what you mean by mountain biking, of course. However, I would NOT like to take that Scott to Nesbyen where I had my most recent mtb holiday
You're not comparing like with like though. Adjusted for inflation your P7 back then was probably around £1500-2000 in today's money.
A better comparison, money wise, with our £379 Scott wpuld probably be a Raleigh Activator. And that would have faired far less well at Metabief.
And roughly how many didn't attend?
No after-school activity could ever accommodate a whole school LOL. 😂😂😂
A more pressing question - why did so many pupils go home (not taking advantage of any activity on offer)? 🤷♂️
Riding bikes makes girls more like boys? and Mrs anagallis helping women take first steps into riding bikes with a club is discrimination?
I think you sir seem to be part of the problem not the solution.
I never said that.
The point is - comparisons can be inherently discriminatory if they are used with a view to encourage one group to do as another, but not the other way round.
What are we encouraging boys to do, or aspire to? Significant enrichment could be had from female peers and role models.
Anyway - girls achieve better GCSE results, which can lead to better opportunities in the long term. So whilst (according to you) they are being held back by simple sexism, let's not worry about the boys' results which have been significantly lower for quite some time. Figures below (from TES).
Anyway - girls achieve better GCSE results, which can lead to better opportunities in the long term. So whilst (according to you) they arebeing held back by simple sexism,
From riding bikes you dim witted idiot.
Try looking at what you have written and have a think.
No after-school activity could ever accommodate a whole school LOL. 😂😂😂
So more girls wanted to go but there wasn't room?
You're not comparing like with like though. Adjusted for inflation your P7 back then was probably around £1500-2000 in today's money.
Probably a bit below that. £699 for the rigid alivio version sticks in my mind but not far off £1500. I do remember that Kona had the Cinder cone or lava dome available for £400 which would have also managed Metabief.
From what I remember £300 was generally considered the minimum you could pay to get a useable mountain bike in the mid-90s which would be around £600 today. Might not have survived too long at Metabief but it would have been fine for the first year or so at the local mountain bike club.
Back then you were at least on the same trails with a £300 bike vs a £2000 bike. That would be the equivalent of a £600 and a £4000 bike today.
Last time I mentioned the bike I was riding on here (I think it was a wheel size debate or something) I said I was riding a Giant Trance 2 to which two people responded along the lines of, 'Well you're obviously not riding proper tech with that so you don't know what you're talking about.' £3000 RRP even if I only paid £1000 for it since it was the last Giant in the shop and they were switching over to selling another brand.
Back in the mid-90s if you were riding a £1500 bike no one would be scoffing at its ability to handle tech (such as tech was back then).
I do think people these days people can be overly precious about what bike can handle what terrain but I also think the difference between a £600 bike and a £4000 bike is such that some serious compromises are going to have to made for these people if they want to ride in the same group.
And that's before we start talking about ebikes which is an entirely different level of barrier to entry...
-you dim witted idiot.
-So more girls wanted to go but there wasn't room?
-Try looking at what you have written and have a think.
Attempting to steer this (whilst being rude), to ratify a perceived issue, isn't positive and neither will it achieve anything.
As already stated - the issue in our catchment was a lack of enthusiasm for after-school activities. It was never suggested that there was a lack of space for anyone. There were no barriers to entry (as far as the institution was concerned).
I did my bit (by getting certified to offer the activity, as well as volunteering to offer it), and the school did their bit by getting a container full of bikes (they were used for specific PE activities too).
I'd be keen to know what you do/offer to encourage CYP to ride bikes?
Anyway, I'm off to meet a friend who's got a new XC bike (well jealous). There's a technical section she's on about - we're both going to have a go at it. It'll be a cracking day. 👌
I'd say the vast majority are not even aware MTBing even exists.... Why would you know if you live in an inner city for example ? Or someone who's just grown up in a town and works as a mechanic and a hairdresser.
There are not 'barriers' to MTBing... just a lack of complete awareness of it.
It’s a weird one , I think the cycling gets either passed down by your parents or it being the next thing, like bmx’ ing in the 80’s you then discover the various niches.
Even your mates may introduce you to it.
E-bikes are a different thing thou, a lot are used as cheap transport(without a requirement for a licence,training,insurance or MOT) as opposed to loving or having an interest riding so you could have an ebike and just not mtb or have any interest in anything cycli.
I'd be keen to know what you do/offer to encourage CYP to ride bikes?
Probably more than you imagine, but given I was talking about enabling more women to ride bikes when you interjected with a load of irrelevant waffle about GCSE's it's not really important.
As already stated - the issue in our catchment was a lack of enthusiasm for after-school activities. It was never suggested that there was a lack of space for anyone. There were no barriers to entry (as far as the institution was concerned).
You really do struggle with even the basics don't you 😄
Like I said, comparing eras is difficult but the capabilities of bikes has definitely jumped and to me it feels like that has created a barrier that maybe wasn't there before.
Much the point I made much earlier. BITD a relative newbie could turn up on a cheap bike with cheap components and not be too disadvantaged. Nowadays the gap between entry level and full-on enduro e-sled is so great that even a massively better level of fitness would see them struggle to keep up.
I'm very comfy in lycra shorts for biking...I can never get comfy with shorts and pants on. I don't tend to wear baggies over the shorts either as they just slide down.
However, I'm already committed to the sport so suspect it makes no odds if I wear lycra or not!
Hmmm. About Lycra, I do think that non bikers tend to look at middle aged Lyra clad roadies, especially non slim ones, and think that the outfits look just ridiculous.
Regarding why more people don’t mountain bike, the cost of the bikes must be a huge entry barrier. Having said that, even with those costs, I do see kids on my local trails having a go. But many avid wearing helmets like the plague. I think this is related to the pint above about Lycra. I think non-bikers feel that helmets are over the top. I couldn’t disagree more. But that’s what I observe here in belfast.
i did visit a trail spot in a more affluent area, and there were tons of kids there. Mostly riding the jump lines. And riding jumps I wouldn’t attempt. But in more working class areas, I do think the cost of the gear is a big disincentive.
There’s always the youngster that turns up on a cheap bike and totally smokes the over equipped old men. Still true today.
BITD a relative newbie could turn up on a cheap bike with cheap components and not be too disadvantaged. Nowadays the gap between entry level and full-on enduro e-sled is so great
I suppose - at the risk of reiterating some earlier posts - the gap has become so big that we've just renamed it.
In 1994, if you were hacking around the woods and dales on a rigid bike with 2inch tyres, occasionally stopping in a barn for a sandwich and a fig roll, you were an MTBer by default.
These days, a lot of those people would be called Gravel bikers, and not included in the census of MTB'ers. But they're still doing the same thing!
That makes sense in the older age bracket.
There's also the youngsters on cheaper rigid or short fork ht bikes, maybe also single speed too, but jump bikes/ BMX not gravel.
Still think it's the most accessible route in for youngsters.
There’s always the youngster that turns up on a cheap bike and totally smokes the over equipped old men. Still true today.
Just out of interest, when you say cheap bike in this context what type of bike would that be these days?
I'm curious because I haven't been along to any mountain bike clubs for quite a few years and I'm wondering what a kid turning up for a ride on a cheap bike would look like these days.
Old man salad dodger teletubbies look ridiculous in baggy shorts and tops. Clowns spring to mind! It would put a lot of youngsters off!
