Why aren't cassette...
 

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[Closed] Why aren't cassettes one piece anymore?

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My free hub is chewed to bits . One bit of the spline actually came off when I removed the cassette.

Why do they have so many single sprockets these days?  Surely the load is spread when they are all joined together.

A steel free hub is on my shopping list.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:42 pm
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Eh mine are, and on a nice freehub that doesn't get chewed up 🙂


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:46 pm
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Not an issue with sram


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:50 pm
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Not an issue with sram

I see your point  but  a shame that even a GX cassette costs significantly more than most brands freehubs and a SLX cassette together.

Also not an issue with singlespeed.

So either MTFU or forego the coke and hookers for a few months to buy a SRAM cassette.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:57 pm
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So you can pick different gears without having to buy a whole new cassette?


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:58 pm
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I think the experience you have had is not shared by many people at all  and probably due to something unusual. Humans are weak and a single sprocket transmitting the feeble human loads to an alloy freehub is well within the mechanical capabilities of the materials used. I'd put this down to a one-off unusual occurrence if I were you.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:59 pm
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I see your point  but  a shame that even a GX cassette costs significantly more than most brands freehubs and a SLX cassette together.

Yep it's a better spec than XT though....

11sp SLX is £45 so whats your freehub price, it should also outlast them by being made of steel and not needed to replace or file your freehub as often. Price and value are not the same thing.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 12:59 pm
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"Yep it’s a better spec than XT though…


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:08 pm
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Countering the point TR? or just asking a question


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:09 pm
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Quality . The edit buttons broke again. Oh well CBA


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:09 pm
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my cassette had cut into the freehub on my hope hubs when I had to take it off to replace a spoke. Was a real struggle to get it off too, to the extent that the freehub came off instead!


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:10 pm
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SRAM went to single piece with the XD driver cassettes.

Though arguably this is a very wasteful process of creation compared to stamped rings. It also doesn't allow for variable materials, which is what you get with XTR (titanium and steel mix with a carbon carrier).

As for eating into the freehub, this is mainly an issue with alloy freehubs and steel cassette carriers. Harder materials will dig into softer. Match the hardness and it's less of an issue. A few hub manufacturers provide a steel edge on one of the freehub splines which helps.

Yes, XD solves the issue with eating the freehub, in a way (less freehub spline material to eat into) but introduces another problem with seized cassette and locking splines shearing off, leaving cassette stuck permanently on the freehub.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:39 pm
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11sp SLX is £45 so whats your freehub price, it should also outlast them by being made of steel and not needed to replace or file your freehub as often. Price and value are not the same thing.

Novatec (so most re-branded hubs apart from higher end roval/bontrager stuff with DT internals) are about £25-£30.

It's not a better or worse solution, but GX only splits the difference weight wise between XT and SLX, and does cost the same as a cassette and freehub (an XT cassette is £55, so still £30 less than a GX cassette).

And before someone points out how wasteful of freehubs that would be, consider how much material SRAM machine off the cassette to make them one piece VS Shimano's spider construction.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:40 pm
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“Though arguably this is a very wasteful process of creation compared to stamped rings. It also doesn’t allow for variable materials, which is what you get with XTR (titanium and steel mix with a carbon carrier).”

A GX Eagle cassette is 11 stamped steel rings and 1 alloy ring, all fixed together with stainless steel pins. One piece construction. Not wasteful. Very clever!


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:53 pm
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So you can pick different gears without having to buy a whole new cassette?

It would be nice to buy just a couple of cogs wouldn't it!

Because I'm both fat and lazy I've worn 1st and 2nd on my XT cassette past the point of no return, it would be far less wasteful (and cheaper) to buy just the back 3, but you can't, so 8 perfectly good cogs go in the bin.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:55 pm
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It’s not a better or worse solution, but GX only splits the difference weight wise between XT and SLX,

GX11 10-42 (XG1150) is 394g

M800 11-46 is 450g

Unless SLX is lighter no difference being split


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 1:57 pm
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With the price of raw materials, I wouldn’t imagine that any component manufacturer is wasting much metal by not returning it into the production process.

Chris King were way ahead of the game with this about 20 years ago!  Not that I’ve owned a lot of their stuff! I wish!


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:00 pm
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Unless you're on an E-bike or a massive unit, you won't get sprockets digging into alloy freehubs so long as you tighten the cassette lockring properly.

If the lockring is tight enough, the sprockets are locked together, meaning they move together and spread the load.

This is why both SRAM and Shimano lockrings have '40 nm' etched on them.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:01 pm
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GX11 10-42 (XG1150) is 394g

M800 11-46 is 450g

Unless SLX is lighter no difference being split

Sorry, you're right I was looking at 12s GX.

This is why both SRAM and Shimano lockrings have ’40 nm’ etched on them.

Sounds like the kind of crap Superstar's customer services would say.

It's a fairly universal problem and I suspect most home mechanics put a lot more than 40Nm on lockrings!


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:03 pm
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A GX Eagle cassette is 11 stamped steel rings and 1 alloy ring, all fixed together with stainless steel pins. One piece construction. Not wasteful. Very clever!

Less wasteful, but GX isn't a one piece construction therefore.

But yeah, should have said XD introduced single piece machined cassettes (which are very wasteful), but forgot with GX they'd gone back to stamped (cheaper to make I guess).

XT/XTR have rings pinned in part, just not the whole cassette, allowing for swapping rings (inc a adding 50t+)


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:08 pm
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Unless you’re on an E-bike or a massive unit, you won’t get sprockets digging into alloy freehubs so long as you tighten the cassette lockring properly.

If the lockring is tight enough, the sprockets are locked together, meaning they move together and spread the load.

Not always true.  The tolerances of some individual freehub and cassette combinations means that a slightly wider than spec freehub body and a slightly smaller than spec cassette can mean that you cannot tighten the lockring suffiently.

I have had this in the past and again only recently with an old pair of Roval Traverse wheels and a SRAM 10 spd cassette.  The cassette was fine on a Hope freehub and a Shimano freehub.  The Roval freehub body was fine with another 10 speed, a 9 speed and an 11 speed cassette.

I have been swapping cassettes for about 25 years and have been a shop mechanic - so I am fairly convinced it’s not user error or a lack of know how.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:11 pm
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Not always true.  The tolerances of some individual freehub and cassette combinations means that a slightly wider than spec freehub body and a slightly smaller than spec cassette can mean that you cannot tighten the lockring suffiently.

I very much doubt that, more likely you've got a 10s cassette on a 9s free hub without the spacer (or some other variation on no or wrong spacer).


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:16 pm
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Some people just don't like SRAM gears, no matter how much other fizz at the bunghole about them.

Still half tempted to see if the XX1 on my ordered HB160 can be swapped out for XT.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:22 pm
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So manufacturers can give the illusion of offering consumers more gearing choices, when really they are reducing the durability of the freehub, so you end up spending more cash. 😉


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:24 pm
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I very much doubt that, more likely you’ve got a 10s cassette on a 9s free hub without the spacer (or some other variation on no or wrong spacer).

In a word, no.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:26 pm
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Some people just don’t like SRAM gears, no matter how much other fizz at the bunghole about them.

I prefer SRAM gears for shifting performance and feel. I just don't have a problem with the Shimano standard(ish) freehub or see a need to replace my freehubs with XD drivers (and have zero use for a 10t vs 11t).

And I like the sound of XT/XTR cassettes when shifting. Less hollow metallic pinging sounding. Though I used to prefer the older SRAM 10/9 speed cassettes.

So I mix the two. SRAM mech, Shimano cassette. All my wheels keeping compatible standard so I can swap stuff about.

Though of course Shimano are changing their "standard" to mess things up.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 2:49 pm
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<div class="bbp-reply-author">P-Jay
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So you can pick different gears without having to buy a whole new cassette?

It would be nice to buy just a couple of cogs wouldn’t it!

Because I’m both fat and lazy I’ve worn 1st and 2nd on my XT cassette past the point of no return, it would be far less wasteful (and cheaper) to buy just the back 3, but you can’t, so 8 perfectly good cogs go in the bin.

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I have have the opposite problem and always wear the 11 tooth first. Perhaps we should trade bits of cassette!

You can buy individual sprockets but I only found them on sites with high postage or mark up, so not worth it.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 4:11 pm
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any LBS that stocks shimano (so pretyt much any LBS) can order the sprockets for you. SJS cycles is good for shimano spares online.


 
Posted : 05/06/2018 6:00 pm
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Because it’s much cheaper for Shimano to press lots of pieces of steel and stack it loosely with spacers than machine from a solid lump or pin it all together rigidly like SRAM do.  The end result is the ‘why are SRAM cassettes so expensive compared to XT?’


 
Posted : 06/06/2018 6:40 am
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It would be nice to buy just a couple of cogs wouldn’t it!

Because I’m both fat and lazy I’ve worn 1st and 2nd on my XT cassette past the point of no return, it would be far less wasteful (and cheaper) to buy just the back 3, but you can’t, so 8 perfectly good cogs go in the bin.

Well you can get the more commonly worn ones:

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-sprocket-wheel-11t-with-built-in-spacer-type-for-cs-m8000-566566

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-sprocket-wheel-13t-with-built-in-spacer-type-for-cs-m8000-566568

If I'm reading this right you've worn the big ones out?


 
Posted : 06/06/2018 9:27 am
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Still half tempted to see if the XX1 on my ordered HB160 can be swapped out for XT.

Just sell it and swap, you should be able to get an XT groupset for the price of an XX1 cassette!

You definitely can get steel sprockets to dig into alloy freehubs despite lockrings being adequately tight. This is not a new phenomenon, it's just been brought to the masses with more hubs using alloy freehub bodies.

It's also not a massive issue IMO.


 
Posted : 06/06/2018 9:36 am
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"It’s also not a massive issue IMO."

That.

Hell I've even run steel simglespeed sprockets on hope sp3 race wheels.... Yes it dug in a bit but even after alot of punishment it's not exactly cut the freehub in half.

Bring back the ti freehub I say. My big UN's and ti glides are unmarked and are now in region of 20 years old


 
Posted : 06/06/2018 9:48 am

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