[Closed] Why are there so many Santa Cruz bikes about at the moment?

Going back to the US/UK pricing..

I was talking to Ellsworth a few years ago. He was genuinely surprised at the prices the UK distributor was charging for his frames. Think he might have knocked up his prices to them from our conversation...

2003 Heckler still going strong, Purchased from Stif and was about £2600 new then with 5th Element, XTR chainset and gears, Hope Hubs, Fox Vanilla 125 RLC etc. Has survived all of the UK, Alps etc. as well as my crap riding / crashing and refuses to die. Come to think of it's only had a few bearing changes as well.

Looked at Santa Cruz a few years ago when buying a full sus 29er. Finished up with a Ventana and not regretted it, but even at the time was entertained by the fact that I could buy a frame from Ventana that was manufactured in house in California for two thirds of the price of a similar frame manufactured in the Far East by a company based about 150km from Ventana.

There has to be a significant element of paying for the badge and there is nothing wrong with that if you know that is what you are doing and feel happier for having done it. There are lots of other markets where that applies as well.

I've got a 2009 Superlight. Its a keeper. With a 120mm fork up front the geo is spot on for 95% of my riding. And its fast shoukd keep me from being big wheel curious for a while

I'm still amused by the fact that some people think a US manufactured frame will necessarily be better than one made in the Far East.

Can I just say "Lynskey"?

Funniest example of this I was was that [url= http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/a-nice-rad-hardtail-niners-purple-ros-9/ ]Niner ROS 9 [/url]frame recently. 900 quid for a steel hardtail where most comparable stuff is sub 500 quid (which is the [url= http://www.ninerbikes.com/ros9 ]US MSRP[/url].)

It does seem that the UK market has gone a bit crazy recently, the more they charge for their bikes the more people seem to want them. Most of the importers seem to be trying to out-do each other in how much they can get away with marking up their frames.

I was talking to Ellsworth a few years ago

Ellsworth are sold in REI in the US which as a massive outdoor activity chain is the equivalent of something like Blacks here, which would suggest they've lost their niche/exclusive image in their home market.

Im not an economist (INAE?) but I understand there is a theory of what the market will bear? I moved out to work in the US for a couple of years in '97, and went shopping for (amongst everything else) a motorbike. Triumphs (as with most things) cost the same in US$ there as they did back here in UK£, which meant Triumph cut crate them up, ship em 3000 miles, suffer import duties, sell them for about £2000 less and still make a worthwhile profit.

Many of the pimp US brands have had models available here for about half of retail (Ibis Mojos on clearance @2Pure, Turners @CRC, various Yetis at numerous outlets). The 2013 Patriot is currently available at a similar discount

http://www.bikeactive.com/orange-patriot-frame-c2x9604637

so theyre all "at it".

£895? Thats worthy of a PSA thread IMO.

I had a five for four years and enjoyed it , it did most things well and was a fun bike .When it got knackered I started looking at a new one and couldn't really see where the money was going for the price so looked for alternatives and found a blur. lt for a good price so tested it .It just felt very right and I found I climbing better ,descending better and having a go at stuff I had gibbed at before.Think it must be down to the VPP system but having ridden it for 18 months I wouldn't go back .

£895? Thats worthy of a PSA thread IMO.

lifted from another thread so wasnt going to steal that poster's "glory" (though this isnt HUKD...)

If other companies manage to sell their far eastern full suss frames for half the price of an Santa Cruz, then Santa Cruz can too.

No excuses.

And snob appeal plays a huge part in their success.
I remember one forumite explaing how much better his SC was than other frames - non of which he'd ridden, he just liked the brand and felt that the frame must be better, because it was more expensive.

Lots of good bikes out there - buy a new Santa Cruz by all means, but at least have the honesty to admit you're paying a snob tax, even if your not one yourself.

I think there's an inverse snobbery as well that , whenever a bike becomes very popular people slag it off.Happened to the five and to specialized .There seems to be a surge in poularity followed by a negative reaction . At the end of the day theyre just bikes and most of us aren't going to ride them to their full potential .

hora - Member
i was riding in Santa Cruz the other day, and everyone was on a santa cruz.
the riding out there is fully sick, by the way

This deserves a whole new post.

I both hate and love you. Man I'm jealous

the speederbike chase in return of the jedi, but with more berms, kickers and hero dirt.

No one has said they are badly designed or built.
Just overpriced.

That they appeal to snobs is another issue, but a relevant one.
Hence the owners who have bought them for their ride alone feeling the need to justify themselves.

They certainly stick to the new STW mantra of 'Inspirational and aspirational', whether you see that as a positive or negative is up to you.

my 2c on this

* From a raw material point of view, they're expensive compared to others
* build quality (on carbon specifically) they're right at the top of the pile - look inside a bare frame and you'll see what I mean. Backed up by being one of the few carbon manufacturers who uses press-fit headsets still rather than (semi) integrated.
* Their prices compared to orange are ~17% higher (bronson alu frame vs orange 5 frame), yes - because the linkage design is about a century ahead (nowt wrong with single pivot, but it's a damn sight cheaper to make)
* anything with any import will attract some increase in price - and that's not specific to bikes (I could point at computers) but don't forget that US prices are nearly always quoted without local sales tax which always makes the us prices seem a little lower too.
* their warranty is second to none (well, maybe parlee)

Now, my personal view is that I bought one because they're simply the best build quality I've seen. I've worked on a lot of bikes and these are simply better than pretty much any others. I'm pretty hard on kit and so nice touches like traditional press-fit headsets and non-pressfit BB's really do make the world of difference to me. yeah, they're tarty and bling, but if that's all they were I wouldn't have bought one (I'd have got an ibis for that reason) - but they really are absolute quality, and I'm aware it'll make me look like a beemer/audi driving w**ker at any trail centre, but I don't care because the bike is the best build quality I could find. I also don't care if literally everybody else in the place is riding a Santa Cruz - why would I unless I was an elitist snob and wanted to appear different?
Basically they're bloody well designed and built bikes that ride like a dream. Overpriced, maybe, but fun so I don't care.

gardron I'm not arguing about the build quality or how they ride. SC are simply great here.

In the past their paint was known for being shit. Apart from the special paint options. but thats it.

Does it really matter what the masses are riding, or that "middle aged"* folk are spending a fortune on overbiking themselves (though I may be overbiked, but a lot of people I know around my age and even older are bloody good riders)?

*- (not that 30/40+ is middle aged to me)

People who've been around a bit, actually done some work in their life and made a bit of money are the ones who can afford them and it drives the industry, meaning all that expensive technology and bling will filter down to the cheaper end in time.

And screw it, if you're going to fit into a cliché group when you get a bit older, better doing that mucking about on bikes than playing golf 😉

But aside from that... they are bloody good bikes, simple to service, great customer service and warranty. That doesn't mean you can't get a bloody good bike for cheaper, but the whole package from a Santa Cruz is what you pay for. They are not the only bike in existence though and if you want to stand out from the crowd, buy something else. Otherwise buy something you like, can afford, and just ride.

P.S. It's a trend thing also. Take that Surrey Hills spoof YouTube video going on about the classic rider driving their Audi etc. Was a few years ago and it's mocking people with more money than sense buying Ellsworth's. Now it's all SC (though maybe something to do with a SC dealer opening up in the area also 😉 ).

With regards to the pricing of them, I always thought that Jungle were taking the mick but apparently it turns out SC in the US charge Jungle the same as they do US stores, no preferential distributor deal and so after taxes their prices here seem massively inflated and Jungle make very little on them. Why they haven't negotiated a better deal given the quantity they buy I do not know.

Aye, the only bad thing here would a bunch of santa cruz (or any decent) bikes sat in garages rather than being ridden - that'd be a bit criminal. There's plenty of good stuff out there; one of the guys in my work bought a norco sight killer b t'other week and that's a cracking bike for the money for example. My bronson isn't 'worth' the extra really, and I'm massively over-biked too. But sod it, I've got a smile on my face while I'm riding and that's what matters.

And for what it's worth, I'm pushing into mid-30's, overweight and an IT manager. I'm hitting the cliche scene early to get it out the way. I should buy an audi or beemer next to complete the set. Screw golf though, that's a step too far.

munrobiker- sorry thats rubbish. I don't believe that. Thats Jungle management feeding their staff misinformation that you've heard.

[quote=gardron ]Aye, the only bad thing here would a bunch of santa cruz (or any decent) bikes sat in garages rather than being ridden - that'd be a bit criminal. 😳

I've ridden mine three times this year - honest!

(that's already twice more than last year)

Firstly I don't agree with an earlier poster saying that every second bike at glentress is an SC. Been there a few times and they're still in the minority by far. Same at the other trail centres in Scotland.

Yeah SC are a bit more expensive than some other brands but they are cracking bikes and people have different value points. Do you all drive about in basic KIAs and buy budget bread and milk? Or in fact do you make a decision something along the lines of :
Is the price worth what it does for me (service, reliability, access to parts, "use" experience....) that's basically the decision that you make every time you decide to buy one option over another. Commonly known as the value for money factor. Each persons limit on this is different.

Yes I do have an SC, so does OH. I absolutely love it. There are other brands in our garage but nothing rides like my bronson does and I've ridden badly on trails on other bikes that seem easy on my bronson.

What is the obsession with beepers and audis? Most of them are company cars, fleet managers get great deals on them because they buy so many, hence why so many people have them. Same thing as SC, good service, reliability, well species, etc etc. And no....I don't have one but do drive a merc estate and we do have a transporter so cliche away folks.

If other companies manage to sell their far eastern full suss frames for half the price of an Santa Cruz, then Santa Cruz can too.

Who does this exactly?

So folk with these 8 grand bikes, are you not worried about inevitable crash damage? I've broken most things on my trail bike over the years and the cost of replacement with an 8k bike would concern me (assuming that 8k isn't an insignificant sum of cash for you - which may not be the case.)

Frame is 2.7k, kit is whatever you throw on - same with wheels. I've invisiframed my bronson to shrug off the little mistakes I make but if I suffer crash damage it's more likely to break my wheels than anything else which are the same price irrespective of the frame.
But that build quality and resilience is also why I bought SC in the first place, so they do tend to break less - and they've got crash replacement programs so you're not forking out another 2.7k on frame if you do break it (I seem to remember replacement rear triangle is £600)

[quote=mrblobby ]So folk with these 8 grand bikes, are you not worried about inevitable crash damage? I've broken most things on my trail bike over the years and the cost of replacement with an 8k bike would concern me (assuming that 8k isn't an insignificant sum of cash for you - which may not be the case.)
You're confusing the difference in frame cost with the component cost. £5.5k's worth of kit on a £500 frame still makes it a £6k bike.

So folk with these 8 grand bikes, are you not worried about inevitable crash damage? I've broken most things on my trail bike over the years and the cost of replacement with an 8k bike would concern me (assuming that 8k isn't an insignificant sum of cash for you - which may not be the case.)

my, not insignificant but a lot less than the cost of a frame, insurance policy sees to it that I don't have to worry. plus invisiframe for the little scrapes and scratches.

They roam in herds around my way. The council here in Surrey is Surrey county council or SCC, it should be renamed to Santa Cruz county, or Santa Cruz Central.

All brands have their time in the Sun, Santa Cruz were popular around here in the mid 2000s, along with Ellsworths, A few LBS sold them. They sort of disappeared for a bit, Now there is another LBS selling them to those with a hell of a lot more disposable income than me.

That said I did own an original Blur, great bike.

I was in my Local Evans the other day (Castleford) and a customer asked where all their SCs had gone (earlier in the year they had quite a few). The salesman said that they weren't selling so he sent them back.

That probably says more about bike buying habits in former mining communities than it does about the popularity of Santa Cruz tho....

There are also loads of 0% finance deals out there on bikes, a 3k Blur carbon is around 70 quid a month over 36 and people are more than happy to sign up. I see lots of SC bikes but I see far fewer of the so called Audi/BMW lot and I ride the Surrey hills all the time. A guy I know with an expensive Santa Cruz is a builder who drives a van and bought the bike as he gave up motocross but still wanted something really bloody nice to ride. He's 40 odd and a very gifted rider. Mine on the other hand was S/H and all was 500 odd for a Anodised VPP frame, after a bearing change and TF service it's been flawless. They are just good bikes and people know it.

I'm 32, drive a company Astra and don't work in IT, do I need to sell mine as I clearly don't fall into the stereotype (which is bollox after all 😀 )

I'm 32, drive a company Astra and don't work in IT, do I need to sell mine as I clearly don't fall into the stereotype

29, no car (or even drivers license, for that matter through choice) work in sales, admitedly for an IT disti.

They're already on ebay.

Lots of Specialized around our way, and also a fair number of Yetis popping up recently, not so many Santa Cruz's, maybe because the nearest dealer is an hour's drive away.

mrblobby - Member
So folk with these 8 grand bikes, are you not worried about inevitable crash damage?

I ride it like I stole it most of the time, crashed it, picked it up, uplifted it and ridden it. If it snaps I'll be on something very nice again thanks to a great warranty.

I'm also glad I have the bike I want rather than saying it was great at the price.

I'm 49, so you'd probably call me middle aged, I also work in IT. I ride an SC Superlight but earlier this year I built up a Ti 456 from a frame I got on Ebay just because I'd always wanted to do a build and always fancied a go on a Ti. I now ride both in equal measure though the SC is faster and lighter it's hard to say which is the most fun.
My SC wasn't new when I got it but it still wasn't cheap and I had to do some soul searching to part with the cash. I don't look back though I just absolutely love the bike.

[img] http://www.mbr.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067&d=1366922278 [/img]

Last event of any size I did, you couldn't move for Cotics. The backlash has already begun 🙂

My 2001 Superlight is still hung up in the garage, can't bear to part with it even though it's too steep has no mud clearance and a bent non replaceable hanger that I can't quite get the nerve up to try and straighten. 12 years of service for £600 second hand frame isn't bad really.

I wanted a single pivot 29er and there is a choice of 2.
Bought the cheapest, lightest ,prettiest one.
[IMG] [/IMG]

joolsburger - Member

...a 3k Blur carbon is around 70 quid a month over 36 and people are more than happy to sign up...

this.

spend £100/month on gym membership + sky telly, and you're 'normal'.

spend £70/month on a (really nice) bike, and people's heads explode.

My main bike for about 10 years was a Superlight - this coming from someone who normally suffers from the 'must have the latest / show me the shiny shiny' illness. Bloody loved that bike (blue ano) and rode it all over UK / Europe and even took it with me when I went to live in NZ for couple of years. Eventually I killed it (for the last few years I was probably a bit too fat for it anyway).

Replaced it with a Soul as I couldn't justify the cost of a new SC with the relatively little amount of riding I was doing at the time. The Soul was nice but I found it hard going back to a HT. So when I found out I was going be in San Franciso with work for month or so last summer, I placed an order for Tallboy LTc with a local shop in SF. Picked it up on the day I arrived (for not much more than half UK price) and ragged it around the local trails (in between work meetings!) for a few weeks - great fun. Popped it into a bike bag all dirty for the flight home and no drama with Customs (feel free to judge!).

As everybody else says, and like my old Superlight, they're just bloody good quality bikes. The LTc has really brought my riding on too, as it should do being a pretty modern machine with a healthy amount of boing at each end. Going to treat it to some LB carbon rims and a DB Air Inline in the next couple of months, should be a keeper just like the old SL. Has also had the bonus result of me getting out a lot more the past year or so as I enjoy riding it so much.

After riding a BronsonC for the first time, the cost became irrelevant and I ordered one next day.

It's a great bike that just feels right from the first ride. I've noticed there's a fair few about at the moment but I don't really care. No matter your skill level if you can afford one then why not.

The talk about buying British is just daft - I'll buy whatever bike is best. I had a go on the Orange 5 650b on the same day as the Bronson and it's an absolute pig in comparison.

deadkenny

And screw it, if you're going to fit into a cliché group when you get a bit older, better doing that mucking about on bikes than playing golf

This x10 !!

Frankly, i'd rather people got out and just rode a bike they like, no matter what speed or skill they do it with. If they've got the cash to splash on a nice SC, well good for them, who am i to say they can't??

Having said that, i can't think of that many times i've seen someone completely mincing on a BronsonC or whatever? Generally i think they are at least mostly ridden at a reasonable pace, although, as the bike is pretty good, you can actually manage that without much "True" technique on most trails..... 😉

I wonder how many people would come out with the same comments if exactly the same frames and service levels were 60% cheaper and had Decathlon on the downtube?

Would you have bought it in the first place?

Loved my Superlight.

Whoever mentioned interest free finance hit the nail on the head.

After riding a BronsonC for the first time, the cost became irrelevant and I ordered one next day.

It's a great bike that just feels right from the first ride. I've noticed there's a fair few about at the moment but I don't really care. No matter your skill level if you can afford one then why not.

The talk about buying British is just daft - I'll buy whatever bike is best. I had a go on the Orange 5 650b on the same day as the Bronson and it's an absolute pig in comparison.

nail. head.

tested a soloC, declared it perfect, did everything in my power to get one, owned for a few weeks, heard the nomadC was out, ordered on the strength of how ace the solo is, on day of release. not disappointed.

But would you have even considered it if it had Decathlon on the downtube?

Not great VFM...just checked the US website (sat in an office in Texas) and the cheap Nomad frame is $3,000 (at 1.65 USD - £ = £1,818). Given you can get an alpine 160 for £1,500 last time I checked with (arguably) a nicer shock and the satisfaction of riding something designed for Britain by British people.

But would you have even considered it if it had Decathlon on the downtube?

Good!

I wonder how many would honestly say the same?

No one has said they are badly designed or built.
Just overpriced.

That they appeal to snobs is another issue, but a relevant one.
Hence the owners who have bought them for their ride alone feeling the need to justify themselves.

They certainly stick to the new STW mantra of 'Inspirational and aspirational', whether you see that as a positive or negative is up to you.

Why are they overpriced? Do you think it's overpriced, because you can't justify spending that much money on a bike, yet others can?

Or is it inverse snobery?

You could say the same for any 'premium' branded product, in any market.

But would you have even considered it if it had Decathlon on the downtube?

Yes. A thousand times yes. They're quality, the badge doesn't alter that. It could say 'probike' or 'dawes' and if it's this good, at this price, I just couldn't care less.

And oliwb - you're comparing a carbon frame (nomad) with the alu alpine 160 there - at least do an apples for apples job if you're going to slag off the price. For example an alu bronson is 1800, an orange 5 frame is 1500.

They're obviously not overpriced, going by how well they are selling.

Poor VFM is a different issue, for the full builds and carbon frames particularly.

I'd also be interested in a 29er Heckler, if you're reading this Mr Roskopp.

Hob Nob.

They are overpriced for a mass produced far eastern frame whether you like it or not.

And if any product cost twice as much as a vitually identical one, then it's overpriced.
Whether you are prepared to stump up the snob tax for the name on the more expensive one is up to you.

Just don't get upset when someone points it out.

I have nothing against SC, I like the bikes.

And if any product cost twice as much as a vitually identical one, then it's overpriced.

Intense, Ibis, Yeti, Crackandfail, Pivot and Transition all price frames in the same ball park. Who are we comparing SC to?

"overpriced" is an individual concept. They're not flogging the things out the goodness of their heart - if they can sell them with an inflated margin and make more profit, then why on earth would they not do that?
Does that mean this frames have more margin than an on-one, yeah, damn straight it does. Does that equate to overpriced for an individual, well, that's the individuals choice.
For me, and plenty of others, they're not overpriced. I can see that they will be to other peoples point of view.
They really will be higher margin bikes/frames though. No disputing that.

That's an awful lot of assumptions on your part.

Unless of course you know what sort of quantities they are made in, the cost of design, prototypes, production, logistics, etc.

What other product does it cost twice as much as that's virtually identical?

Personally, I don't think they are overpriced. Would/Could I justify buying one at retail? No.

oh how I miss it 🙁 Was named The Werewolf Slayer by a guy in Whistler (silver bullit) 😆 didn't actually climb too badly considering the weight and seat angle.

[img] [/img]

If anyone has, or knows of one, in medium/polished going for cheap please let me know.

Hob Nob.

They are overpriced for a mass produced far eastern frame whether you like it or not.

And if any product cost twice as much as a vitually identical one, then it's overpriced.
Whether you are prepared to stump up the snob tax for the name on the more expensive one is up to you.

Just don't get upset when someone points it out.

Aren't humans 98% the same as chimps/apes/cuttlefish, genetically speaking? It's just that other 2% that makes all the difference?

it's the same (bear with me....) with, for example, an SC and (insert other premium, but less expensive brand) frame. You're paying for the 2% that makes the difference.

I have had 2 Santa Cruz, a superlight about 10 yrs ago and more recently a Nickel. I must admit the paint job on the Nickel was terrible. The paint chipped really easy. So sold it on, now own a very nice anodised Rose Granite Chief.
Would i have another....Hell Yeah, the new Chameleon looks brilliant, but I would only get one in anodised.

Rick, do you think the big boys spend less on r&d than SC?

Yet they can build a frame equally as complex as an SC, add components and sell a full bike for not much more than the SC frame.

Canyon, Boardman etc do it for even less.
The brands you mention are equally overpriced and appeal to the same demographic.

Tom, which 2% is it?
And why is it so expensive?

Tom, which 2% is it?
And why is it so expensive?

existentialism, language, logic, ratio... oh right, bikes.

It's not one think you could put your finger on, it's just everything is a little bit nicer, so lots of little things adding up to make the whole experience, IMO, worth it.

A better analogy might be first class vs cattle class on a flight. you still get there just as quick, its just those at the front have a nicer time doing it, for many many more moneyz.

Rick, do you think the big boys spend less on r&d than SC?

Yet they can build a frame equally as complex as an SC, add components and sell a full bike for not much more than the SC frame.

Who does that then? Comparable Specialized's, Giants, Trek's etc arn't a large margin cheaper?

Canyon, Boardman etc do it for even less.

Ah. Well, without being blunt, of course the likes of Canyon do. When you remove a distributor and retailer out of the equation, what do you expect? Do you honesty think if Canyon operated the same distribution model as Santa Cruz do, their bikes would still be the same good value option they currently are?

Giant Trances start at £1300.
🙂

Full bike.

How does the frame materially differ from the equivalent SC that would justify the difference?

In a cold, hard, only the numbers matter kind of a way, probably very little, save for a bit of economies of scale from one of the worlds largest bike manufacturers.

But, more subjectively, I don't [i]want[/i] one. Like a supercar buyer doesn't [i]want[/i] a Nissan GTR, despite comparable performance to his Ferrari, for much less money

Giant Trances start at £1300.

Full bike.

How does the frame materially differ from the equivalent SC that would justify the difference?

Given the wide difference in just about every part of the frame spec, there's no SC equivalent.

Compare like with like. A Santa Cruz with VPP suspension vs Intense with VPP suspension. Similar frame prices. Similar rides.

So how much is a new Heckler frame then?

And Tom H, I'm confused now.
Would you still pay twice as much for an SC rather than a half price Decathlon if both were identical?

Giant Trances start at £1300.

For a carbon one? Or are you selectively avoiding the points people keep making? The latter it would seem.

Those guys at YT, Canyon, Boardman, Rose are SUCH assholes, I mean they are literally milking the poor buying public, when you can buy a full suspension bike from Asda for £159.97. It's got 21 gears & everything 🙄

http://direct.asda.com/Boss-Stealth-Mens-Mountain-Bike---26-inch-Wheels/000975461,default,pd.html

I mean it looks like a bike & has bouncy bits at the front and the back, anything else is such an unnecessary vanity exercise, right?

Straw Man.

So what are the material, design and geo differences against a major manufacturer frame, say the Trance, that make an SC aluminium frames so much more expensive?

Those guys at YT, Canyon, Boardman, Rose are SUCH assholes, I mean they are literally milking the poor buying public, when you can buy a full suspension bike from Asda for £159.97. It's got 21 gears & everything

Bloody hell, mines only got 11! 😯

So you're happy to pay for the name then Tom?
🙂

Nowt wrong with that.

And admitting it is the first step to recovery....

Straw Man.

So what are the material, design and geo differences against a major manufacturer frame, say the Trance, that make an SC aluminium frames so much more expensive?

Hardly. You've tried comparing 2 entirely separate business models (distribution network & retail Vs Direct sale) to try & justify yourself, to using the "they look the same, yet it costs twice as much, therefore it's a ripoff". Why not use the Asda example. They still both look like bikes, yet you could by 15 of those for one carbon Santa Cruz frame! The outrage!

I would suggest the cost difference between the Giant and the Santa Cruz probably has something to do with economies of scale. I expect Giant sell ten times as many £1300 Trances than the entire Santa Cruz production line over a 12 month period.

Not to mention they are targeting entirely different markets.

Nothing to do with the name. Like I said, 'all things being equal'. That includes things like aesthetics, warranty, great reviews, a race team using them etc etc not just the head angle.

The markets they are targeting is irrelevant.
We're comparing frames, not target buyers.
🙂
And no one is talking about ASDA bikes but you.
Not a valid comparison.

So how do the distribution costs justify the price differences?
Do you know?
I don't.

Tom - as those conditions are basically unique, I'll take that as a 'no'!

Not a valid comparison.

Hasn't stopped you so far!

This has turned into a bit of a sit back and eat some popcorn thread.

As for people who are comparing a Giant Trance to a Santa Cruz (Bronson I guess would be comparable), firstly while I like my Trance 27.5, the paint is stupidly thin, and compared to a Bronson ALU the trance isn't in the same league for rigidity (rear end of the trance does flex when you start pushing it). So while the Trance is great value for money a Bronson ALU is indeed stronger/stiffer.

As some people have mentioned carbon Santa Cruz's (which are supposedly the best carbon in business), for comparison a carbon trance ranges from £2.7k-£5.5k.

What's not valid (volume and distribution aside) between a cost comparison between a Trance and a Heckler?

And gaz, the fact you prefer one over the other is irrelevant cost wise.

To answer your pre ninja edit question.

Intense tracer-last bike was an intense, wanted a change
Lapierre spicy team- massive delays, dealer never called me back after a short demo. Plus my feet are too big for the chain stays, shame as I really liked it. Interestingly, when built to the same spec, would be the same price as I paid for my 5010.
Orange five- nice bike to ride, but don't care for the looks.
Trek remedy and slash, could have had either of these at trade (worked for a dealer), but much like giants, don't excite me.

Tom, ta for the answer.
So it came down to excitement in the end?

Fair enough.

I edited because the ride is irrelevant if just comparing costs.

We're going round in circles now:

They are more expensive than other comparable frames.
The fact that some of those frames are mass market is neither here nor there - they cost the factory similar amounts to build.

No one seems to be able to justify the exorbitant UK pricing.

Rusty Spanner - Member

What's not valid (volume and distribution aside) between a cost comparison between a Trance and a Heckler?

Trance is a multi-link suspension design, which is why I compared it to a Bronson as it is also multi-link suspension design and similar travel.
A Heckler is a good comparison for an Orange 5 I would have thought.

Rusty Spanner - Member
...
And gaz, the fact you prefer one over the other is irrelevant cost wise.

Don't get me wrong I like my Trance (except for the Fox 32 evo's that it came with which were awful/completely rubbish), but I can also understand why people looking that kind of bike might want to spend more on something like a Santa Cruz Bronson, Yeti SB66 etc etc.

On a side note; I think the whole enduro thing is pushing manufacturers to make their bikes stronger and lighter, which is good for us.

Good points gaz.

But a 5 is another brand priced to attract those who value a certain indefinable something.
And UK built.

I like the bikes btw.

If Jungle would care to send me one for evaluation purposes, I'd be happy to oblige.
It worked when I had a pop a Privateer!

Don't know how do do the quote thing, but:

Giant own the factories where they build their frames. I imagine that would make it cheaper for them to make their bikes. They also build bikes for other companies which provides another source of income, allowing them to sell their frames at a more competitive price and still make huge profits.

This doesn't answer the question, 'why are they so expensive in the uk?' Perhaps they are sufficiently better (in the areas pointed out above) to justify the extra money to people who care/can afford it. Supply is limited, too. There are for fewer of SC bikes available to jungle than comparable Giants to Giant dealers.

I own a tallboy, I bought it in Canada, when I was living there. SC bikes cost more in Canada than USA as a result of import duties and what have you. I now live in the USA, but I have been so impressed with the bike that I'm pleased I've owned it for as long as I have. My first 29er and I can't believe how good it is. Not tried other 29ers, however.

If people want an SC but don't want to pay uk prices, import one from USA. I don't think you'd be disappointed with your purchase. Or buy something else.