[Closed] Why are there no serious Garmin alternatives?

Cos it's hard.

Hammerhead Karoo might be alternative but only pre production tests so far, real world opinions should be appearing soon.

@scotroutes so are lots of things! Can you think of any other area of consumer goods where there is no competition?

@akira, thanks for that. Just signed up to their mailing list.

They have an established market far outside cycling. Hence there is an enormous amount of cross-over technology, research and development. I doubt cycle computers are a serious profit item for them.

Bryton, Mio, Lezyne, Polar and Cateye make bike GPS systems.

I think the issue is that the software development is quite expensive compared to the number of units they sell, so whilst many can make the hardware, the interface always lets them down.

I have troubles with my garmin 810 too (random switching off, unreliable phone connection/upload).

I think next time I'm just going to use a simple GPS with breadcrumb type trail (to save digging a phone out of my pocket every junction), and just use a phone for more detailed mapping when necessary.

Wahoo? My garmin died and to be honest, i can't be bothered replacing it. I just slip my phone in my pocket to record the ride.

Garmin were doing GPS units such as marine and military before they got into cycling, I used a Forerunner 301 before I got a cycling specific unit for example. Wikipedia states the company was founded in 1989 so had units available when Strava started (2009) so that extended their influence.

As to competitors - Wahoo? I only know of one person with an Elemnt, superficially it looks similar to a Garmin 520

Smartphones get vast amounts of R&D thrown at them as they're sold in massive numbers. Cycling is fairly niche and the market just gets smaller and smaller as you go up the range for these devices. Lots of people are happy to log rides using their phone or a basic GPS device. A smaller number are happy with something you can chuck a GPX on to follow. An even smaller number want all the advanced mapping, sensors, etc stuff.

Garmin do car/truck satnavs, marine and aviation stuff, and offerings for just about any sport that could use GPS. Thus they can spread a lot of the development cost around between these. It's also why the cycling ones can be a bit compromised as they're minimising what needs to be made specially for it.

Everyone wants a tiny waterproof unit with super accurate GPS, a huge battery, a screen that's clear in all kinds of lighting conditions, and a fast processor to make it super responsive when dealing with huge chunks of mapping data. And they want to pay next to nothing for it.

I think next time I'm just going to use a simple GPS with breadcrumb type trail

And they want to pay next to nothing for it.

not true. people pay for Garmins and they're not cheap.
I know a few people who have Wahoos and are more than happy ex-Garmin customers.

And they want to pay next to nothing for it.

But there's still no real alternative, so we keep feeding their profits for mediocre (they have a lot of positives to balance the negatives) devices.

I get the notion of using a phone (not least because that's what I do at the moment) and realise that yes, there are plenty of competitors at the lower end.

The single feature I really like the look of on the Edge 1030 is the ability to just turn it on anywhere and tell it to take me for a ride along the most popular local trails.

I know all of the information is available out there somewhere on the web, but it's generally a complete pain in the arse to pull it all together into a GPX file, and that assumes you know you're going to be riding in the first place!

As an example, if I'm going to a meeting somewhere I know has decent riding nearby, I might often chuck my bike in the car and go for a ride on the way home. The Edge 1030 would potentially let me take the bike to any meeting and do that, even if I didn't know the terrain at all.

I just can't bring myself to spend with Garmin again!!!!

The Wahoo Elemnt isn't an alternative to a Garmin Edge. The battery life, rrp and reliability will seem very alien to a Garmin user. 😉

Seriously, the Elemnt is ace and set up etc through your phone is a breeze. For mtb riding the basic maps are maybe a bit too basic but you'll get there.

No regrets switching over from me.

The Edge series does seem to be particularly flakey.

My Oregon just works.

I follow the Trans- Continental FB page and interestingly riders most of the riders there were singing the praises of the Wahoo Elemnt over Garmin as a more reliable GPS for daily use.

I have 510 and touch wood it's been good but do wish Garmin could get it together to be reliable, have good battery life and good mapping, seems you can only pick two

I bought my Oregon for geocaching and walking, had it before I even got into biking. I only use it for routes or recording a long ride, not for 'training'

I also follow the transcontinental and noticed the same. (you may have seen my post asking about them)

The downfalls of the Lezyne I bought as a "cheap" back up to my seemingly dying 510 I've found so far are:

Routes have to be loaded through phone, and only one at a time.
- No use when your battery runs out
- No use at the start of most MTB rides in Scotland
- No use at the start of a fair whack of road rides in Scotland
-- because there's never a data signal or WiFi when you need one

Following a route with cues you'd better not miss a waypoint otherwise you're just going to be told how far away the start is
- so it doesn't deal with that like a Garmin does

User Interface is a bit clumsy
The Start button is also the down button when you're in a menu, and the top left and top right scroll through screens.
- I've also found this extra clumsy when working left handed. (Where as the button based interface on my Fenix watch works great left handed)

There is only 1 zoom level when following the breadcrumb trail, which thankfully you can do even when the cue's are trying to tell you to go back to the start.

Obviously it doesn't do the trail finding; that sounds like something someone needs to write as a killer app first, or an extension to trail forks?

also as I've been using it with the 510 at the same time I noticed if the Lezyne picked up my HRM before the 510 then the 510 wouldn't connect to the HRM, but if the 510 went first then both would connect to it.

I'm also suspect of the elevation, as it got 1500 on an Audax last weekend while the Garmin got 2700; the official was just short of 2400m (no AAA points)

I've got an Elemnt Bolt on my wish list

and of course I've gone way off topic 😳

I think the level of competition for Garmin depends on what you're trying to do with it. If you're fitness focused and want to track ride stats, do Strava, that sort of stuff, then there's a ton of competition out there and some of it (Wahoo being the obvious example) looks like it's beating Garmin for this type of use.

If you want navigation, things are different. I had high hopes for Wahoo but in the end I was disappointed and reluctantly went back to Garmin.

https://mashing53.cyclyc.com/wahoo-navigation-nailed-or-failed/

The "it's hard" excuse doesn't wash. Garmin haven't really learned anything over the last 10-15 years, they've just added a few bells and whistles (some, like touchscreens, being rather questionable) and tried to lock everyone into Garmin Connect. It's not the difficulty of the engineering (software or hardware) that's the issue, it's Garmin's apparent attitude to its customers and its reluctance to evolve with a more open market and a more connected ecosystem.

To be honest, I'd be happy if Garmin simply put a bigger battery in (and stopped pulling unrealistic battery life estimates out of their arse), used a high-contrast screen, and allowed me to get routes on there wirelessly from a phone.

To be honest, I'd be happy if Garmin simply put a bigger battery in

Edge 1030?

and allowed me to get routes on there wirelessly from a phone.

Thought you could now? You can definitely get Strava routes onto a Garmin from your phone (edge 520 upwards anyway)

edit: tried this? https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/b7efc9ca-5446-4e1c-bc53-474e97f376ac#0

I've got an 800, I lost it a few weeks ago (dunno where, could be at SSUK, could be in the house somewhere). TBH I don't bother looking for it because it was truly rubbish.

Screen isn't bright enough to see in sunlight even when not wearing sunglasses.
Screen doesn't have the resolution to make the (bloody expensive) OS maps useable.
Menu's are completely unintuitive (there's probably 3 different ways to get a route up to follow, none are anything obvious).
Garmin connect is horrible for route planning.
The sat-nav function is hopeless, especially if you miss a turn it won't recalculate just send you back in a loop to where you went wrong, I once rode 20miles in a loop after I rode past a road closed sign only for it to bring me back to it! It also has a magnetic attraction to Reading ring-road, it's a cycling route finder FFS, surely it can at least avoid roads where cyclings prohibited?

Ride logging - STRAVA does that for free
Following a pre-made route - pay for STRAVA premium, even as a subscription it's cheaper than a garmin unless you can make a garmin last 6+ years (without breaking it or the battery life diminishing).
Maps - OSM has enough detail to navigate, and carry a paper OS map for backup.
Worried about breaking your phone, buy a tougher case, or buy a <£100 waterproof budget android phone off ebay.

Garmin should have given up on hardware and just released an App, they could have been STRAVA years before with their market position (vs the other strava-esque apps).

Edge 1030?

*googles*

Jesus, it's £500! I think I'll put up with my £100 Touring plus £10 USB battery.

Thought you could now?

I'm probably out of touch. I thought you could only do it via Garmin Connect.

edit: tried this?

Nope, looks quite cute. Thanks. Looking at the compatible devices, the 520 and the Explore 820 edge into broadly-affordable territory. (The 520 has limited storage space which is crap for maps though, right? And the 820 is generally considered rather unreliable?)

The 520 has limited storage space which is crap for maps though, right? And the 820 is generally considered rather unreliable?

I believe that you are correct with both of those statements sadly (although I don't have 1st hand experience of the latter)

Giant Neostrack. £150 RRP, 30hour battery life (tested soon on Relentless). No touch screen, breadcrumb navigation, buttons are "clunky", have to log on phone to link to Bluetooth to download rides. No downsides yet.

Sounds/looks good (especially the price and the battery life) but the lack of mapping is a shame.

the wahoo elemnt just works. Never had any issues at all with it.

It may not be touch screen or full colour mapping, but is that something you really need? Surely it's worth not having if you can have something that does work...

Don't see the need for full colour mapping if you're following a predefined route.

The weakness of breadcrumb trails was demonstrated to me during the audax at a couple of junctions where roads slowly diverged racked up an extra couple of km through wrong slots, although at the Lezyne zoom level it was the braking time rather than the noticing time that was longest.

Can see it being a bigger problem on trails though or worse a big open rideable plateau.

Personally I can't think of anything worse...a bike computer making recommendations on routes? Part of appeal is to get away from it all so this permanent (or near permanent) connection sounds like witchcraft and voodoo all in 1.

Yer mental suggesting a box on yer bars can do all that!

My Wahoo Elemnt Bolt is amazing value for money compared to the equivalent Garmin.

Not sure I even understand the question.

Personally I can't think of anything worse...a bike computer making recommendations on routes? Part of appeal is to get away from it all so this permanent (or near permanent) connection sounds like witchcraft and voodoo all in 1.

When doing a long ride and you want to know how many bloody hills you still have to go
When you are leading a group and would rather not take them down dead-ends, long detours or into peat bogs
Not having to constantly check the map when riding somewhere unfamiliar

I know that not everyone wants to use one, but for me at least, my Edge 1000 was a revelation and I wouldn't be without it now for the above reasons and many others too.

And, despite the comments here, I've not had too many problems with mine and recent firmware updates have been pretty stable for me. Battery life is ok too.

the wahoo elemnt just works. Never had any issues at all with it.

My Wahoo Elemnt Bolt is amazing value for money compared to the equivalent Garmin.

Not sure I even understand the question.

Bez posted a link up ^^^ to a long review he wrote and has gone back to a Garmin so clearly don't work for everyone.

I'm in the same boat - got an Edge 500, which I refuse to replace until there is a viable alternative to Garmin.

The Wahoo Element definitely looks like it's getting close. There seem to be a few from Bryton, but they don't seem to be marketed or get much coverage in the UK.

A mate of mine had a Mio a few years ago & sent it back. Apparently it was cak.

When doing a long ride and you want to know how many bloody hills you still have to go

Rule #5 or Toughen up princess 😆

When you are leading a group and would rather not take them down dead-ends, long detours or into peat bogs

PPPPP 😉

Not having to constantly check the map when riding somewhere unfamiliar

And how exactly does a map on a screen differ from a paper map in this respect? The paper map gives you a picture of where you are in the landscape (unless you are right on the edge of it) which you can only partly get by scrolling around the screen map. What happens if there's a blockage on your route that requires a detour and there's a couple of alternatives and you need to choose the best one? Pretty easy with a paper map as all the info's there.

Don't get me wrong, I have two GPS units (one for road, one for off-road) but if I'm somewhere I don't know particularly well I'll have the relevant maps in my pack.

the wahoo elemnt just works. Never had any issues at all with it.
My Wahoo Elemnt Bolt is amazing value for money compared to the equivalent Garmin.
Not sure I even understand the question.

Bez posted a link up ^^^ to a long review he wrote and has gone back to a Garmin so clearly don't work for everyone.

To be fair to Wahoo, Bez's complaint was over navigation. Nothing else. (as an aside, Bez's Wahoo is also not the Elemnt, but the Elemnt Bolt. Which is quite a lot smaller. So shows less detail...)

[img] [/img]

I've never noticed the battery drain on my phone either. I know it's not conclusive proof that there is none, but neither is his blog that there is an issue.

The loss of detail is due to the firmware choosing to display very little beyond a certain level of zoom, not the physical screen size, but I'd be interested to know if the firmware behaves differently on the larger version (I strongly suspect it doesn't, but I'd be happy to be corrected).

Don't know to be honest!The [url= https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/wahoo-elemnt-users/map$20resolution%7Csort:relevance/wahoo-elemnt-users/HsjMr2AkzNM/cPMpbM7KFgAJ ]Google[/url] group implies it's the same resolution, but without trying both, who knows?

Thanks for all the comments everyone!

As a result of a comment here and elsewhere, I've just discovered how easy it is to create routes on Strava based off the heatmap and then follow them on my phone.

It would be perfect if I could tell it to turn off road segments and only show MTB trails, but even so, I was able to create a 25 mile circular route which is 90% off road in under 10 minutes, so for now, that gives me pretty much everything I was after! 😀

I don’t rate the Edge Touring for navigation. Stop for lunch. On restart asked if I want to save or discard data then do I want to navigate to the start of the route. WTF. No I want to restart the timer and continue on my preplanned route. How hard can it be to get that right? A fairly basic requirement for an item aimed squarely at the leisure market. Rubbish software and USB1 for map updates. Really? Nearly 4 hours every time I need to run a map update on 150mb cable connection! The whole setup is not fit for purpose.

What about a satmap?

After the lunch stop, don’t you just press ‘go’? And it continues as it was before the stop?

Yes, ‘save’ and ‘discard’ are the two options shown, so it’s a little unintuitive, but no different than any time you press stop for whatever reason

I own a Dakota 20 and an Edge Touring.

Up until the old Communicator got broken (ie, the security vulnerability in IE it exploited was patched and Garmin CBA writing new software) the Dakota was completely all I needed. Now, it’s still a much better navigation tool for proper off road use, but can be a bit of a pain to get Strava friendly data from - especially if you rode several days since you last extracted figures. The AA batteries are an awesome feature. The bar mount is crap.

The Edge: easy Strava, rubbish navigation, unreliable.

I’m very interested in the Wahoo units, unfortunately I don’t see them as usable for OS map reading until there’s a colour screen...

I have an Edge 510 and I use it daily. It's not terrible and I almost feel a bit ungrateful saying this but there are enough annoyances that I'll be looking elsewhere when it comes to replacing it.

The fact that Bluetooth pairing fails completely for weeks after almost every update (for either the Edge or my phone) is completely unacceptable.
Garmin connect is a poor platform that I have no interest in but I'm forced to use. At least it now auto-syncs to Strava.
The battery life is linear from 100% down to 50%, then the device just turns off somewhere between 50% and 45%.
The movement detected notifications don't work properly and stay on the screen obscuring the data.
I'm sure the Garmin drains my phone battery, but I can't prove this.
I could list a few other minor annoyances but you get the idea.

I quite like my Edge Touring for navigation but I don’t usually use the turn by turn on routes I’ve created myself. I just leave it on the map screen and effectively follow the blue line. I also use Talkytoaster maps which seem much better than Gaemin’s offerings.
I have used the inbuilt route finder a fair bit too & apart from the odd bit of trouble with major A roads or muddy farm tracks it has been surprisingly successful. Used it loads in Brittany to find set distance loops & rarely any issues.
I use a Lezyne Macro for any stuff I don’t need navigation on. I originally bought the Garmin Touring as the nav side of the Lezyne was so bad but given the umpteen firmware updates which have improved pretty much everything else about it to better than Garmin levels it may now be useable, lack of map display notwithstanding.

Edge Touring, despite it’s foibles (mine did another reset to factory defaults for no reason a few days back) just about works. Just had two great rides in France by searching for Strava segments, looking at the ride the leaderboard riders had done, creating a route from it and loading to the Edge.

Turned off “turn by turn”, turned off “off course warnings” and just followed the line

Screen is too small, resolutions not great, hard to see in bright light but enough detail on the included Garmin maps to tell when the track had turned off the fire road and work out near enough where the right point to find the gap in the trees.

Pretty sure the large wahoo does lose detail when zoomed out, the question is whether a Garmin zoomed out the same with blurry is maps is anymore helpful?

One slight niggle regarding wahoo nav is that while the "create me a route on the phone" is super quick and convenient the routes chosen include anything you can ride down legally. So you might get 40k of great quiet back roads and then it tries to send you down a Somme like bridleway. That's probably as much the fault of UK inconsistency and Sustrans idea of what a nice cycle path is though.

I have the edge 25 and to honest i rarely use the breadcrumb trail but when i have its been ok. As for garmin connect well thats what lets down all garmins, it is just a rubbish platform that needs the worse virus imaginable to take it out of our existsnce forever. I cant do routes on mine because it doesnt recognise any of the roads around my house so goes straight across farmers fields instead (i live in Leeds so hardly rural).
Somebody mentioned that they can now get connect to auto upload to strava,is that possible? I thought they had stopped that but if somebody could point me in the right direction that would be great as i hate using tapirik to do it.

I've a Fenix 3 which I can preload routes on to and ViewRanger on my phone. Between the two I can find my way round New places pretty easily. Paper mapping off Bing OS is handy too.
My Fenix has been incredibly reliable and in other applications (Aviation and Marine) I've used Garmin they've been superb too.

Perhaps some are expecting more from the devices than it was designed for?

What about a satmap?

Brilliant for walking and general use with excellent screen and a far more intuitive user interface than any Garmin I've used, but not ideal for moving use on the bike ime. Best unit I've found for displaying Ordnance Survey mapping bar ViewRanger on an iPhone, but you have to load the mapping on an SD card.

I'm intrigued by the [url= http://beeline.co ]Beeline[/url] gizmo now that you can upload a GPX to it. It's just a direction arrow on your bars that's linked to a smartphone app and points you towards the next waypoint. Not remotely sophisticated, but has the potential to let you follow pre-loaded routes without loads of stopping and faffing around.

As to why Garmin seems to have a stranglehold on the bike market - combination of decent hardware, strong marketing and inertia. People keep recommending them because they've not used anything better - Wahoo looks promising - and because, charitably, the human brain can eventually adapt to even the most awful, clunky interface with repeated use.

The downside of Garmin being so huge is that bike and outdoor GPS unit development is just a small part of the business, so development seems to be low priority. Compare and contrast with Wahoo or Satmap. Anyway...

Pretty sure the large wahoo does lose detail when zoomed out, the question is whether a Garmin zoomed out the same with blurry is maps is anymore helpful?

For me it is. As per the linked article, I tend to frequently find myself having to take a small detour from a planned route, either because a road that looked viable at the planning stage turns out to be private property or unsurfaced, or because there's some sort of closure. The Garmin provides enough information to let you freestyle a detour to somewhere downstream on your route but the Wahoo is no help at all in this scenario. This and the consumption of my phone battery were the two main reasons for me to go back to Garmin, at least temporarily.

And (with a bit of effort) you can customise the maps to improve clarity; see my post here: http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/garmin-edge-mapping-off-road#post-8736646

Brilliant for walking and general use with excellent screen and a far more intuitive user interface than any Garmin I've used, but not ideal for moving use on the bike ime.

the only problem I had with a satmap was its size and the mount puts it high, so it is clunky. With an outfront type mount you can put it forward and lower, so that is better.

For moving it was fine/good. 1/25k map and zoom down to about 1/3k res and switch to the 'rotate map to direction of travel' mode and it was easy to follow the route and to see when upcoming turns were coming up, so ride at normal speed.

Could take normal batteries if needed, although not sure about the new version - which I might buy.

I don’t rate the Edge Touring for navigation. Stop for lunch. On restart asked if I want to save or discard data then do I want to navigate to the start of the route. WTF. No I want to restart the timer and continue on my preplanned route. How hard can it be to get that right?

Operator error - Just press 'start' and timer (and route) resumes...you'd did read the manual right? 😉

For Navigation and general route following (both on and offroad) I've been quite impressed with the Edge Touring. If it had better battery life* and a slightly less reflective screen it'd be better, but for £150 it's pretty damn good even if it's not perfect.

*Cache battery or Dynamo solves the power issue but still...

For me all the Garmin devices are too complicated. I use an etrex for navigating on long routes and it is accurate with OS mapping but it is clunky. All I want is OS mapping and speed and distance with ability to reliably upload gpx files. Forget all the other crap.

I have a Matt screen protector on my Oregon. Is there no equivalent for the Edge Touring?

Operator error - Just press 'start' and timer (and route) resumes...you'd did read the manual right?

To be fair, this sort of thing is an annoyance that I have with Garmins. Very often I'll set off from a stop and then an hour later I'll notice that it's not updating anything.

And, speaking as a user experience designer: that's not operator error, it's designer error 😉

*Cache battery or Dynamo solves the power issue but still...

IME a dynamo doesn't. Well, it does, but it introduces the issue that Garmins hate fluctuating power sources and gradually go completely hatstand, rendering the maps wrongly and having various weird tantrums.

I did come up with a neat solution for a USB battery, though. I'll see if I can get a picture of it sometime…

and allowed me to get routes on there wirelessly from a phone.

Thought you could now? You can definitely get Strava routes onto a Garmin from your phone (edge 520 upwards anyway)
edit: tried this? https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/b7efc9ca-5446-4e1c-bc53-474e97f376ac#0
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Simon, I love you now more than ever.

That app is ace!

To be fair, this sort of thing is an annoyance that I have with Garmins. Very often I've set off from a pause and then an hour later I'll notice that it's not updating anything.

Now all I need is a better little bluetooth earpiece thingy. I really like having a little voice giving me navigation cues. My Edge 820 does it just fine, but the little earpiece thingy that I have was only about £5 on eBay, and it's quite flakey. Shame, because it doesn't block out sounds at all, stays put nicely and the battery lasts forever. I'd quite like bone conduction doodahs like on the Coros Linx helmet, but I don't want to buy an expensive new helmet (that might not even fit very well).

I have a Matt screen protector on my Oregon. Is there no equivalent for the Edge Touring?

possibly, I will have to look into it.

speaking as a user experience designer: that's not operator error, it's designer error

Tend to agree, hence the winky smiley but the OP's issue isn't actually an unsolvable issue... if the interface is explained properly or learned by reading the manual or experimenting (or intuitive enough that it doesn't need explaining.)

Just highlighting the difference between "my device won't do X" and "I don't know how to do X on my device" 😉

I've got round the dynamo power variation issue by using the dynamo to charge the battery, and then the battery to run the GPS. But I believe there are widgets that run a cache battery inline to allow you to have it all plugged in not have the issue.

Some cache batteries allow charging and discharging at the same time.

Ah, that'll be one of the widgets I've heard about about then, I need to look into this more as I'm currently just 'making do' rather than having a proper 'power on the go' strategy for longer rides.

Search for "passthrough" when you're looking at batteries. Most mass-market batteries don't support it, but some do:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01HFGQ4EC

But then even a basic 2600MAh cigar battery should be good for two full recharges of an 800/Touring, which should see you good for over 24 hours in the saddle, up to around 32 if you're mainly on the data screen. If you're needing to passthrough-charge a 5200MAh cell then chapeau 🙂

I have a Matt screen protector on my Oregon. Is there no equivalent for the Edge Touring?

I have this, seems pretty good :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01BOTRQ1Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's the thing that confuses me most about switching between the Edge models and the recreational models like the Dakota/Oregon. The latter can be set to record always whereas the former need recording to be started.

Downside is typified by more than one occasion that I’ve ended up with a track with large jumps through hyperspace between days if I’ve been riding in different places without uploading.

The walking type units are determined to make anything they can into a multi day activity in my experience. Garmin’s legendary manuals don’t exactly help matters either.

So with the OP, the market is clearly ripe for an off-road mtb GPS done right, but no one wants to steal Garmin’s lunch ...

[quote=vincienup ]

It's the thing that confuses me most about switching between the Edge models and the recreational models like the Dakota/Oregon. The latter can be set to record always whereas the former need recording to be started.

So with the OP, the market is clearly ripe for an off-road mtb GPS done right, but no one wants to steal Garmin’s lunch ...

I like the look of that Beeline thing. I've used a variety of Garmins, and always found their UI pretty unintuitive, whereas almost any navigation app on my phone works fine. Never ever felt comfortable strapping my iPhone onto my bars though. I guess this bridges that gap?

But yet no one has. Maybe coz it's hard?

Well, they have, and it's not that hard. Phone + any one of a number of apps will give you significantly better navigation.

Problem is people get hung up about an expensive phone on their bars, and solve it with an almost equally expensive Garmin.

Problem is people get hung up about an expensive phone on their bars, and solve it with an almost equally expensive Garmin.

Hardly comparable. For a start you can roll a Garmin* down the road at speed and it'll generally be fine bar a scuff or two, whereas a phone will have a smashed screen at best. (And if you break a Garmin your phone works as a backup; not so the other way round.)

Plus phones have rubbish battery life when used for navigation, and very few are waterproof so they're not much use most days of the year. And even if you have a waterproof one the touchscreen won't work in the wet so it's not much use then either.

Phones are quite appealing from the point of view of having lots of apps to choose from, but in practice, unless you have a fairly tightly constrained set of requirements, they're a pretty poor tool for the job.

* the older ones anyway, the newer ones look a little more fragile

I'm not sure i agree with your premise that there aren't serious alternatives.

Pre-smart phone then Garmin was the [i]only [/i]option and they knew it. That's why every model was £300+ and very few people had them.

Then along came smartphones and Strava and Garmin realised they were being left behind, no-one even needed a Garmin anymore nevermind paying through the nose for a clunky model. It's called competition.

So they upped their game and prices came down. Of course you can still get the top of the range stuff at similar price points to old but now you get much more of a range of models from cheap to expensive.

Well, I have a Mio 505 unit.
I like It, I certainly like the Mio customer service - when my original version stopped picking up a GPS signal after the warranty had run out they replaced it with the upgraded full Euro map model!
The website is basic, and the track creating tool is irritating in that you can only do it in small 15km (I think) steps, but I understand Garmin is similar?
WiFi uploading of stored rides & downloading created tracks to the device.
Ability to link to Strava & other sites.
Battery life is pretty good-easily enough power to track & record a 200km Audax.
Ability to link it to your phone for music, or Bluetooth audio turn by turn directions if that's your bag.
TBH I don't use enough of the functions but it's a great bit of kit.
Not cheap though, think the Euro map model with HR strap & cadence counter was £350.

I like the look of that Beeline thing. I've used a variety of Garmins, and always found their UI pretty unintuitive, whereas almost any navigation app on my phone works fine. Never ever felt comfortable strapping my iPhone onto my bars though. I guess this bridges that gap?

It has potential to do that, I think. It started off simply as a basic compass - the idea was that you set your ultimate destination then just followed the arrow through whatever maze of urban chaos you selected until you reached it. I suspect it wouldn't play well with one-way systems...

Then, as I understand it, people started asking if they could use it to follow a GPX file so they added the capability to the app quite recently. In theory it should work pretty well as long as the waypoints are sensibly spaced and line up along actual tracks and junctions, so yes, it ought to let you use your phone for the mechanics, but without exposing it on a bar-mount. Not sure if it has an 'off course' alarm, which would make sense.

The original Garmin Fenix does something quite similar if you can make it recognise a GPX file as a route and not a track, I think and battle your way through Garmin's interface. Anyway, I'm seriously considering getting one and will report back if I do 🙂

The GPX import feature looked interesting, though I wonder how well it works given that they say that once you're within 100m of a waypoint it will jump to the next: seems like that might cause some issues with a densely-waypointed track, which it wasn't originally designed for. I'd also be curious to know how well it works with figure-of-eight routes.

And one of the key issues for me would be just how much it drains the phone battery… The 30 hour battery life is appealing, but if the phone can't even remotely keep up then that just means less recharging between urban pootles rather than an additional ability to do a big ride.

Interesting - might try the Beeline again. Bought one on the original Kickstarter but neither Katie nor I found it very useful. The idea seemed really sound but we both found it wasn't any better than our existing knowledge of the city/general sense of direction when you were a long way from the destination and not that helpful when you got close (you ended up needing to get your phone out for the last section anyway).

Bez - figure of 8 routes - have you worked out how to get the Edge to follow them? I'm sure it didn't use to be a problem with the old B&W eTrex but I've never managed it with an Edge.