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It's 2024. Surely in the last 40 years of clever engineers making things lighter, stronger and more purple, someone could have come up with a better design than this.
I was just topping up a tyre and have somehow managed to bend the valve to the extent that I can't put the valve cap back on without deflating the tyre. A while back I snapped the end bit off another one altogether.
This is everybody else's fault, obviously, and I wish to complain to the cycling community at large.
Yours ever,
Disgruntled of Tunbridge Wells
Sorry, but I've still not broken one.
@Hamfisted of Tunbridge Wells
I fear there may be an element of operator error occuring here.
someone could have come up with a better design than this
I agree. Schrader is better in pretty much every way.
You can't bend/snap off the valve.
The valve is wider so doesn't rip out of lightweight tubes.
The valve is a lot bigger so tubeless is easier with the core removed (and you could probably re-design the core if you wanted to, it just wouldn't be universal anymore).
The only reason presta persisted for so long was you can't drill out skinny 14mm roadie rims for it. But no one runs 14mm rims anymore. And the dubious benefit of being able to change the core without tools, but why do you need to change the core if it's not broken, and why introduce the problem of the core coming out when you don't want it to.
There's an extra layer of vitriol reserved for whoever at Shimano makes their tubeless valves with non-removable cores, and you have to use Shimano ones as they're profiled to the rim so generic ones don't work. And they're not cheap.
Even on Track bikes, the last bastions of obsolete standards in cycling, they're a pain in the ass as you need your mate to hold the pump head on the valve because the fancy push on heads that 150psi+ track pumps come with, won't stay on a presta valve at 120PSI+
Hmm, I vastly prefer Presta to Schrader, just seems a better system. Yes, its a touch more fragile, but nothing that a bit of care can’t fix.
Sorry, but I’ve still not broken one
You've blown it now
I vastly prefer Presta to Schrader, just seems a better system.
I'd like to hear why people think this. Other than it being possible to not break them (which isn't an upside, it's like saying none of my current valves are broken, they will eventually get snapped off it's just a matter of time and entropy).
And why they think that neither the car industry (which subjects them to exactly the same conditions as push bikes) or suspension manufacturers (which are running much higher pressures) chose to use Schrader valves instead?
Change your pump not your valve. When I've bent a presta valve, it's normally down to poor pump head or poor access (disc wheels). My Silca 90 degree adaptor cures both ills.
And tubulars are still a thing. You won't be running Schrader valves on a track tub any day soon!
I’m adding Doris to the list of people I’m not letting anywhere near my bike with a spanner.
The only reason presta persisted for so long was you can’t drill out skinny 14mm roadie rims for it
Is it though? As everything moved tubeless, there was an opportunity for someone to come out with a completely new system, or a schrader based system... nobody did. There must be a reason other than the old being shackled to obsolete roadie standards. cos we're not anymore! We've moved on with suspension, skewers, forks, stems, bar width, rim width, flat pedals etc etc .. can't be the only reason presta has stuck around. (Never had an issue with it personally.)
I purchased a lovely new Lezyne digital track pump recently.... presta valves on my bike.... about half the time I use the new pump it undoes the presta valve core when taking the pump head off, deflating the whole tire!!! Very poor design. The Lezyne pump designs are a known problem for this issue. If you screw the pump head on with a bit less force it leaks instead, so a no win situation. I'm going to convert all my bikes to shrader valves. Are the Joe's shrader tubeless valves any good ?
Nobody came out with anything that would take over from normal presta valves. Especially not anything that much better that its worth paying those prices.
Are the Joe’s shrader tubeless valves any good ?
Absolutely fine. I'm just waiting for the warranty to runout on my bike before converting another over.
And best of luck Presta fans when you can't undo the frozen pile of Presta poo on a freezing hill in winter.
I’m adding Doris to the list of people I’m not letting anywhere near my bike with a spanner.
You think that's bad, you haven't seen the state of my DIY 😅
Quite clearly the cycling industry is missing a trick here, it's time for the big players to bring out several different competing designs, none of which are cross compatible, some of which will go obsolete over the next 12-18 months, all of which will be hideously expensive, we'll then make the worst of the bunch the industry standard.
Consultancy fee to the usual address please 😎
Just get some spare cores and a tool off AliExpress for like£2.
Car valves seem a bit 1970s to me, you'd ride the Raleigh Chopper to the petrol station and inflate with the car air pump (free back then)
Presta just seems more sophisticated in a retro way and cycle specific
Quite clearly the cycling industry is missing a trick here, it’s time for the big players to bring out several different competing designs, none of which are cross compatible, some of which will go obsolete over the next 12-18 months, all of which will be hideously expensive, we’ll then make the worst of the bunch the industry standard.
Pretty much what happened. A whole load of anodized tat with various ways of trying to stop the tiny little presta hole clogging up. The industry seems to be putting a lot of effort into doing anything but the blindingly obvious solution of using an existing valve design with a bigger opening.
where do i get schrader valves to suit 101mm deep road rims ?
Where do i get extenders to suit ?
What about for 90mm rims ?
Even my Carbon rims on my gravel bike wont take a standard depth schrader . never seen long schraders .
Why do we need a bigger hole in the valve ?
Quite clearly the cycling industry is missing a trick here, it’s time for the big players to bring out several different competing designs, none of which are cross compatible, some of which will go obsolete over the next 12-18 months, all of which will be hideously expensive, we’ll then make the worst of the bunch the industry standard.
Don't forget that the Pump, Rims and Tyres will all only be compatible with the new standard valve.
Bonus points if the rims only come as part of a "system" wheel.
Even on Track bikes, the last bastions of obsolete standards in cycling, they’re a pain in the ass as you need your mate to hold the pump head on the valve because the fancy push on heads that 150psi+ track pumps come with, won’t stay on a presta valve at 120PSI+
Get a proper pump?
You’ve blown it now
10 points for Reeksy 🙂 (but i said the same on the last 26 threads on the same subject, still ain't broken one.)
I purchased a lovely new Lezyne digital track pump recently…. presta valves on my bike…. about half the time I use the new pump it undoes the presta valve core when taking the pump head off, deflating the whole tire!!! Very poor design. The Lezyne pump designs are a known problem for this issue. If you screw the pump head on with a bit less force it leaks instead, so a no win situation. I’m going to convert all my bikes to shrader valves. Are the Joe’s shrader tubeless valves any good ?
absolutely agreee - i do not understand why lezyne still make pumps ... they are not very good at it . Even funnier is that people keep buying them - whats that all about.
Always tighten up the valve core first if using a screw-on pump. Always. Continental tubes are particularly bad for being shipped with loose cores in my experience. I now tighten them up when I take them out of the box.
I may be jinxing myself but my Lezyne pump with screw on abs head doesn’t undo my presta valve cores. Are you doing the cores up tight enough?
Presta valves do seem a bad solution when used with latex sealant. I’ve found the rimpact ones are particularly bad - both the valves and the sideways facing holes at the valve base seem to clog up fairly quickly.
Glad it's not just me. I've had more success with them recently, but for YEARS it genuinely felt like every time I unscrewed the pump from the valve, the sodding valve core would come out with it. The other alternative was a loose pump and lose 75% of the pump stroke to ambient. Horrible things.
I still use tubes. Next puncture I get I'm running a 10mm drill bit through the valve hole.
annoyingly over engineered & complex
clog with sealant and not as good as schraeder for putting in sealant either.
so something with a few negatives and absolutely no positives compared to schraeder
A weird legacy of road biking weve not been able to shake
It’s 2024. Surely in the last 40 years of clever engineers making things lighter, stronger and more purple, someone could have come up with a better design than this.
Presumably you are the target audience for this: https://ninefit.uk/products/velotubes-tubeless-schrader-valves-40mm-purple
I've been use to them for years coming from a roadie background..... horrible, crappy things. You can make them work and get around their faults but I'd rather not bother.
The valve core seizing to the stem due to moisture and galvanic corrosion
What was your moisture. Pickling brine ? Gallium ? Brass and nickel don't really do what you speak of.
They are fragile shite and Schrader valves are better.
Edit: Never realised they were a roadie thing. Makes sense now. Probably saves a third of a gram or something. Absolutely irrelevant to the majority of people with bikes.
Just bought my conversion:
mini pump conversion but (presta to schrader) £2 on ebay
Joe's schrader tubeless valves, £9.50 ebay... hopefully that's the last of valve cores getting pulled put (yes I tighten them very firmly) and crappy presta fitments snapping off.
I thought it was just me with the shitty ABS head on my Lezyne Pressure Overdrive. Has anyone managed to replace it with a more useful head from another pump?
(I agree about the shitness of presta!)
Reserve Fillmore as per above link. All presta problems solved. ££ though
6/10 rant. Perfectly reasonable complaint but not enough 🤬
https://ride.lezyne.com/products/1-rp-presta-v1ny04 I use this with my Lezyne pump
@lister Topeak master DA.
I have an old master blaster with the pistol handle that's still amazing.
Lyzene make rubbish pumps.
I was a bit surprised when my Airshot arrived and found it only screws into the inside of a Presta valve
I always wondered about when people are struggling to seat a tubeless tire if a schrader with the valve core removed would work. Removing the valuve core would hugely increase the volume of air travelling through the valve and seat the bead, then insert the valve and finish the job.
about half the time I use the new pump it undoes the presta valve core when taking the pump head off,
The pump isn't the problem.
The pump isn’t the problem.
actually it is! Google Lezyne pumps removing valve core”, seems to happen a lot! You need to screw the pump connection on tight to get the seal. My valve core are always done up tight, yet only Lezyne pumps have ever done this… if it’s just me then why is this a well known problem ?
They were never meant for tubeless use, we just got half the tubeless solution 20 years before the rest.
https://jonesbikes.com/jones-spec-schrader-valve-stem-pair/
I purchased a lovely new Lezyne digital track pump recently…. presta valves on my bike…. about half the time I use the new pump it undoes the presta valve core when taking the pump head off, deflating the whole tire!!! Very poor design. The Lezyne pump designs are a known problem for this issue.
I had a couple of Topeaks that used to decapitate presta valves, one was a mini pump and the final straw was when it left the valve end jammed in the pump, I had spare valve parts but ended up walking along a trail for miles looking for a pump to borrow.
I always wondered about when people are struggling to seat a tubeless tire if a schrader with the valve core removed would work. Removing the valuve core would hugely increase the volume of air travelling through the valve and seat the bead, then insert the valve and finish the job.
That's what I do.
where do i get schrader valves to suit 101mm deep road rims ?
Where do i get extenders to suit ?
What about for 90mm rims ?
We wouldn't be here ranting if this stuff actually existed.
where do i get schrader valves to suit 101mm deep road rims ?
Dunno but you might need your wheels balancing after fitting them..
The Schrader valve was invented in 1891, so there has been a better designed valve available for over 130 years.
They have a bigger bore so easier to get air in/out, easier to get sealant in (the nozzle of the small Stan’s bottles fits in perfectly), more robust and can take up to 500psi depending on the brand (way more than a cyclist needs).
We only have Presta valves due to road cyclists and their super narrow rims.
coconut
Free Memberactually it is! Google Lezyne pumps removing valve core”, seems to happen a lot! You need to screw the pump connection on tight to get the seal. My valve core are always done up tight, yet only Lezyne pumps have ever done this… if it’s just me then why is this a well known problem ?
Lezyne literally changed their design and sold a little doofer to go on the end of the old pumps to make it happen less. Any screw-on pump can take out a loose valve but theirs could take out a tight one.
if it’s just me then why is this a well known problem ?
I didn't say it was just you. It's a combination of loose valve cores and folk not pressing the pressure release before unscrewing. It happened to me once about 12 years ago. I still have the same pump.
I’m adding Doris to the list of people I’m not letting anywhere near my bike with a spanner.
If you think a spanner is required on a bike... I'm adding you to my list.
Anyway... Something something bring back the dunlop valve. Best of both worlds... A nice sturdy stem and a bit that accidentally unscrews occasionally.
1. Both types of valve exist.
2. You are free to choose which ever you want.
3. If you put an ugly car valve on a narrow rim it will weaken the rim.
4. Grrrrrr
You need to screw the pump connection on tight to get the seal
You really don't. I'm the most ham fisted non-mechanic there is and after a couple of problems many years ago I managed to figure it out. All my pumps are Lezyne and all my bikes run presta
If you think a spanner is required on a bike… I’m adding you to my list.
<hr />
I'll add you to my list.
My vaults had a nut at the end of the axle pretty sure my Shimano spds do too . My brake lines get adjusted with spanners
My old xt hubs, I crack out the cone spanners and my cassette locking tool gets held with my biggest bahco shifter.
Ah but they are mostly Special spanners...
I use a 15mm spanner to do up the nuts on my bike wheels, a completely normal spanner
Just to confirm to the armchair critics... 1. valve cores tightened very tight (with the plastic tightening device)... 2. pressure release valve engaged before disconnection.... 3. very competent mechanics, not "ham fisted" 🙂 This is the pump! It seems to remove the cores every 3-4 times it's used, I even dropped a tiny bit of oil in the connection to overcome the friction...
Looks like a lezyne. Your sarcasm gets no sympathy from me
valve cores tightened very tight (with the plastic tightening device)
I am calling BS on that as it is impossible to do the valve core up 'very tight' with the plastic tightening device as the squarish hole just rounds out. Yes, I am that ham fisted mechanic.
I am calling BS on that as it is impossible to do the valve core up ‘very tight’ with the plastic tightening device as the squarish hole just rounds out. Yes, I am that ham fisted mechanic.
I have some very nice flashy oilslick annodised aluminium dust caps with the tool built in .....
Roadies tut as they pass.
anyone following liveslowridefast will understand my comments RE valve extenders and the frustrations that short valves (almost every scraeder valve on the market) cause.
I still don't understand why folks are angry about this. The Schrader valve actually exists, you don't have to use Presta if you're clumsy/ham-fisted/too stupid to operate it.
This is a weird thread.
I use these 7s Projects High Flow valves, a great upgrade on the presta using a bit of decent thinking to design a better solution.
2. You are free to choose which ever you want.
I can't really be arsed to buy new wheels just to be able to use Schrader tubes, and if I took a drill to my rims I'd be in serious danger of losing a finger or burning the house down 🤕
If you think a spanner is required on a bike… I’m adding you to my list.
[ laughs in track cycling ]
Also pedal spanners, C-spanners, cone spanners, old headsets, and anything else that needs a spanner.
I know i know.
I have a fixed gear Sylvan pedals, 1inch threaded headset etc.
They're all special spanners though. In kerleys case its quite obviously his special wheel spanner, it might look a lot like a 15mm spanner but its a wheel nut spanner.
😁
Looks like a lezyne.
It is a Lezyne. I'm convinced it's an issue with the brass thread having too much friction when attached. I have never ever had this issue with any other pump brand on the market, only blasted Lezyne!!! I tried the recommendation of a small dot of oil inside the pump connection core, but to no avail. The wheel valve cores are tight, they're a fragile piece of equipment and the plastic tool is suffice, any tighter and you risk damaging them.
Rob from 76 Projects here. Thanks to those who've mentioned our Hi Flow valves.
It is surprising that rim manufacturers haven't changed to schrader size holes for MTB rims, for strength and airflow reasons it makes sense. A schrader valve core is better but it can still clog and impairs airflow.
The thing is that standard schrader and presta cores are made in the billions and are therefore very cheap to make, as we found with our cnc'd stainless steel hollow core that become a significant part of the cost. Meanwhile some brands are simply anodising a stem in pretty colours and sticking a 1p presta core in then charging a massive premium.
What's the extra airflow required for ?
Are we still trying to seat tires with the valve cores in place ?
Why Hi Flow?
Much faster / fewer strokes to inflate.
No need to remove core, blow up, release air, try to blow up ago hoping it works.
How are you getting sealant in. Breaking the bead ?
I’ve had Reserve Fillmore valves in for about 10 months and they mitigate all of the issues with a presta.
Plus points - Easy to inflate tubeless tyres with a track pump. Nothing to unscrew by accident when removing the pump. No clogging up with sealant, either initially or when in use. Fit all presta pump heads without modification.
Minus points - The cost. They only come in black. The cost.
Bruce
Full Member3. If you put an ugly car valve on a narrow rim it will weaken the rim.
The hole will be about the same size as the 24 to 36 spoke holes. It's a non-issue., the centre of the rim is lightly stressed (except for spoke tension on the inside)
What isn't a nonissue is rim shape, with some the centre part is shaped enough that they're even picky about what sort of presta valve you use, getting a tubeless seal depends on the shape of the rim vs the shape of the valve. Some rims you can reliably convert, a lot you'd be brave to try. It sucks tbh.
I prefer presta valves as they don't tend to get clogged with mud or sealant as readily (admittedly valve caps stop mud clogging the valves, but they didn't look cool at the start of the 90s!).
Been running whatever presta valves came with my originally Bird for 5 years and sealant gets topped up every 6-7 months and tyres changed once every 15-18 months.
Valve core gets removed and sealant is put in (with valve at 4 or 8 o'clock), valves reinstalled and pumped up (when fitting new tyres the first inflation is with the core to get the tyre to seat, then I remove the air compressor head and install the valve core).
I don't use screw on pump heads, only push on, so suspect that may be helping with my success.
Never had an issue...and before then I think in the 36 years that I've been trying to ride a mountain bike, I've only damaged 4 valves - 2 presta and 2 Schrader and that was a snapped presta and bent presta and 2 snapped valves for Schrader and those were all before 2000.
Each work and each just need a bit of care when getting used.
To be honest the Fillmore valves aren't anymore expensive than the likes of Peaty's or MucOff. I've just got 2 sets for our new bikes at £24.99 a pair.
Had them on a previous bike and they solved a lot of issues that Presta seem to have. All the MucOff valves and various others I've had just seem to either clog up or get jammed in no time.
You need to screw the pump connection on tight to get the seal
I'm no Lezynne fanboi, I've got a floor standing track pump and a really-uncomfortable-on-the-hands carry-on-the-bike pump which-you-use-like-a-tiny-track-pump but I digress.
No you don't need to screw the pump connection tight to get the seal. Really you don't! THAT'SWHEREYOU'REGOINGWRONG!
On the floor standing track pump, where screw-on-bit spins on the head (to allow you to screw it on) does leak air slightly if it's at slight angle
All this to say, no they're not perfect, but undoing the valve core is non issue.
