[Closed] Why are panniers not popular for bikepackers?

slow day at work trollgrips ?

No idea. Same question to commuters.

End of the day, Panniers are the pro choice for transporting things on a bike, and far better than rucksacks or randomly strapped on bits.

I agree with molgrips, why not use panniers on a hardtail for bikepacking?

Maybe they look too Rough Stuff Fellowship 😉

racks and stiff bags weigh more. they also stick off the side and are more likely to catch on stuff.
They can carry more though, but if travelling light and fast, frame bags are the way to go.

ok ill bite

bike packing is not the act of carrying your bed on the road

its the act of riding the same trails you would normally attack on a daily ride with the ability to carry what you need to go further.

You try riding some of the singletrack in the highlands of scotland with panniers and see how often you get stopped by heather or rocks due to the fact your now really wide.

carradice were the inventors of bike packing anyways (without inventing fancy new names for carrying stuff on bikes) - far superior to panniers for commuting. - doesnt prevent me filtering through traffic 😉

slow day at work trollgrips ?

As always 🙂

My Ortlieb bags are pretty heavy, but I reckon you could get much lighter ones. I've never fancied frame bags. Maybe it's cos it'd make the bike hard to carry, or maybe it's because my legs seem to rub on stuff in the frame - even water bottles. From looking at people's photos, you can't do it with just a frame bag, you need to strap large items to your bars and saddle too. And where do you put water bottles?

I do my work travel with panniers, I don't mind riding with them at all.

You try riding some of the singletrack in the highlands of scotland with panniers and see how often you get stopped by heather or rocks due to the fact your now really wide.

This is of course a good point. If I were in the highlands on singletrack I'd prefer a rucksack, I'm thinking more along the lines of the TDR which as far as I know does not contain singletrack.

Last time i took panniers offroad the grounded out while navigating a field margin. I clip them enough commuting so much happier with (lighter) bike packing gear and it means i can use my full-sus.

Didn't you do a very similar thread when you were planning to do the Tour Divide, or am I thinking of someone else? I guess the replies now will be similar to the ones then.

trail_rat +1. I've done a lot of off-road bike touring and panniers are fine on wider tracks. Get to narrow trails with heather, shrubs and rocks though and they get in the way. The new style bags also mean you are not limited by frames with rack mounts.

My Ortlieb bags are pretty heavy, but I reckon you could get much lighter ones

"I'm thinking more along the lines of the TDR which as far as I know does not contain singletrack. "

Might want to research a bit more before you go then.

I reckon if I were forgoing rucksack, I'd want to go bare-backed. I'd use individual dry bags for things I didn't want to get wet.

Might want to research a bit more before you go then.

What am I doing now then?

What everyone else said, plus...

If you're going to use rear panniers alone, then the bike will be horribly unbalanced. If you are going to use front panniers with a suspension fork then you're limited to wacky solutions that look ungainly and fragile to me. In STW style, I haven't actually tried suspension fork mounted racks, so I'm putting them down without actual experience, but that's OK 🙂

ok so let me ask this

do you think that the shift from panniers to frame bags would be so popular if it really didnt work ?

there are guys who use panniers in the TD - but there AFAIK hasnt been one at the sharp end - mostly reserved for folk fast touring.,

trail rat - chill a bit please. I'm asking for opinions and experiences, that's all. I'm not looking for an argument.

I'm not saying frame bags don't work. I'm wondering what reasons people have for using them and not panniers. Panniers appeal to me over frame bags for a few reasons, but mainly because I hate having stuff hanging all over my bike. No real reason other than OCD.

Aidan - balance is an interesting one. When I used panniers for the first time in the mid 90s I didn't like them, but I regularly put 20-odd kg on my hybrid for work and have no problems at all. Which is partly why I am thinking about them.

Not sure if I want to use sus forks or not either.

From the mammoth bikepacking sick-as-a-dog thread, the consensus seemed to be that soft straps were the way to go for anything remotely technical for two reasons:

- all the weight is as close as possible to the bike and can be well distributed fore and aft so that handling isn't too compromised

- a couple of people mentioned that solid racks will inevitably break, but bags and webbing don't.

This is of course a good point. If I were in the highlands on singletrack I'd prefer a rucksack, I'm thinking more along the lines of the TDR which as far as I know does not contain singletrack.

Well if your planning on sticking to only wider tracks then yeah, panniers might be better for you. I think most 'bikepackers' tho are interested in riding normal trails and singletrack if possible, so thats the obvious reason. Other reasons as pointed out are weight and balance/stability, as tightly packed and centred weight makes bike easier to control when riding and carry when not.

You said earlier a frame bag woudl stop you carrying your bike, not really. You might not be able to shoulder it like you normally might but you can still hang it off your shoulder by the saddle if your hardcore, dont forget it will weigh more so you wont want to carry if you dont NEED to. Try that with panniers, no chance of shouldering it with the bags attached and if you take them off youd still have to carry them which would be difficult over the rough terrain your trying to get over.

As for OCD, bike bags are better, you can get them all tied down tight so no rattling, pocket for everything and everything to hand, perfect!

The fore-aft weight distribution question is a good one. It has to be said that loading up the back of a bike does give massive additional traction when climbing loose surfaces.

Molgrips - your best option is to get out there and give it a go. Start with one nights gear and slowly work up to longer trips. You may find that panniers work ok for you on your selected routes. I'd certainly still consider using mine when appropriate.

I did find someone who made panniers that converted into one rucksack. I thought that was an interesting approach.

Lack of rack mounts on peoples main bikes I reckon.

I was delighted to find what I [i]think[/i] are rack mounts on my Lynskey 456.

I've never had too much issue riding off road with a couple of days worth in panniers (rear only, don't like fronts) but then I've never tried frame bags so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.

I use the freeload (now Thule) rack plus sides for carrying pannier bags, etc. Can be attached to forks too.
IME these racks are incredibly strong, reasonably light and versatile.
I can alter where the panniers are mounted. Up high, or down low, forward or right back.
The top deck can be used for carrying other items too. Max load is rated at 25kg for off road use.
[url= http://www.thule.com/en/gb/products/luggage-and-bags/bike-bags-and-racks/racks/thule-pack-n-pedalt-tour-rack-_-pp_100016 ]Linky[/url]
I do notice the extra weight, but now consider it extra training.
Really like my Ortlieb panniers too.

Panniers appeal to me over frame bags for a few reasons, but mainly because I hate having stuff hanging all over my bike

What are the panniers doing, if not "hanging over your bike"?

Tee hee, Moly said 'bareback'..... 🙂

Its true to say, panniers can be a RPIA in singletrack/heather/rocks. However, I'd be interested in the weight vs capacity conundrum. My offroad panniers weigh ~800g plus the rack at ~500g but have a capacity of 38L. When multi nighting (and especially in Scotland), I usually take a tent (Laser Comp) and cooking gear. How do you get all that in a frame bag/on your bars?

my two-p:
- I don't like panniers as they make your bike feel like you're giving someone a backy and I never liked that
- frame bags are cool and don't get much cooler than this

[img] ?zz=1[/img]

I did a c2c from Montrose to Inverie last year, and can categorically say that panniers are the devils own work. By The top of Glen Clova I realised I had made an awful mistake-both bike handling while on the bike and lack of room on the trail when pushing. Needless to say my legs looked like a scene from a horror movie after the constant brushing with rocks heather thistles etc. By Feshie I was almost ready for giving up the bike was so tail heavy and uncontrollable through the burns and peaty ditches. I ended up posting one bag back at spean bridge to lighten up. By sourlies my pannier frame had snapped so had to strap the pannier bag to my backpack with tent etc between top and down tube. Only then did the ride become enjoyable! The rack received a sea burial-not one for littering but I was just so pissed with it!
I hope this answers your question 🙂

Panniers are hanging ON my bike, not ALL OVER it. It's a subtle point that's psychologically important, especially as I go mental over 2,800 miles of solitude 🙂

I will of course try these things out, I've got plenty of time yet though - who knows when I'll get the chance to do the race.

I've done a few bikepacking trips before but I've always used a rucksack. I have no problem with these, but I'm thinking it might make staying cool a bit harder in super hot conditions.

There would of course be very little in whatever I choose to take. Something on top of the rack might even be better, and avoid grounding/snagging issues.

[quote=boblo ]Tee hee, Moly said 'bareback'.....
Its true to say, panniers can be a RPIA in singletrack/heather/rocks. However, I'd be interested in the weight vs capacity conundrum. My offroad panniers weigh ~800g plus the rack at ~500g but have a capacity of 38L. When multi nighting (and especially in Scotland), I usually take a tent (Laser Comp) and cooking gear. How do you get all that in a frame bag/on your bars?

I've posted this link before but it does seem appropriate to do so again..

http://www.blog.scotroutes.com/2013/05/bikepacking-kit-list.html

[img] [/img]

1 week tour of mull and ardnamurchen

in the camper long flap i had a tent - much bigger and heavier than a laser comp. , my stove , and my pots/cooking stuff.

in the bar bag i had my bed roll and sleeping mat + spare shorts and down vest.

all inside dry bags

my rucksack was largely empty save for toiletries and food.

I now have a frame bag so i can get rid of the ruck sack and even the carradice - i have a smaller underseat bag but have a bigger bar roll and a can put alot of the stuff into the frame bag. - bike is much more balanced than in the photo

[img] [/img]

and thats the one night version - bike remains balanced due to there being naff all weight - its litterally a small sleeping bag and bivvy bag and down vest inside a dry bag - with my waterproof on the outside.

everything else i needed was in my jersey pockets

I hadn't read that link. How's that inflatable mat compare to an open cell foam one? I happen to own a Rab down bag with no stuffing on the bottom side.. I think a mat without foam would be rather cold and uncomfortable with that bag. Not sure if I like the bag either tbh, but it was an event special offer and cost me very little.

ime of a thermarest neoair - its not like standard inflatable mats so standard thinking practice that inflatable mats are cold can be forgotten.

Its insanely warm given that on the face of it logic says it should suck heat out of you - until you read the explanation of why it doesnt

the space savings over a closed cell matt make it a no brainer.

Hmm, Trail Rat.... Bivvy bag in a Scottish summer? Midgies and monsoon? I'd be pretty pissed off after a couple of nights of that.

However, my bivvy bag is not much lighter than the tent (especially if you add a tarp to the bivvy set up) so I don't hint what I'm carrying is a problem.

I'll have a look at some of the on the bike set ups to compare capacity. I have a Long Flap already so mebbies just a bar harness and frame bag required?

<edit> agreed on the Neo Air, it's a no brainer. Just a bit fragile mind....

hence why its my 1 night west highland way emergency pack

my multi night kit contains a tent as detailed above.

also if i was doing it with my seat pack and frame bag id put the tent in the bar roll.

I've long fancied a neo-air. Aren't they just inflatable with a reflective layer?

I'd originally thought of a tent, but maybe hooped bivi? Keep the insects off? Dunno.

its the reflective layer AND small air pockets the work together

R value 2.5

closed cell foam - R value seems to hover between 1.5 and 2

I'd be pretty pissed off after a couple of nights of that.

Why? Humidity?

@ scotroutes interesting you were carrying 8kg (plus the bags... Total 9kg?). When McMoo and I did Skye-Montrose recently, my total was 10kg inc bags, food, tools etc. I could drop mebbies a kg off that by trimming down similar to your kit list. So on the frame isn't really lighter, must be just a bit easier to manage.

@ Moly. No, midgies and rain. A bivvy bag on its own is a PIA in the rain (that's why people take tarps) and the midgies in Scotland are a pleasure to behold.... BTW, just try a Neo Air, they are magic. Don't over think it...

molgrips - Member
I hadn't read that link. How's that inflatable mat compare to an open cell foam one?

boblo - Member - Quote
@ scotroutes interesting you were carrying 8kg (plus the bags... Total 9kg?). When McMoo and I did Skye-Montrose recently, my total was 10kg inc bags, food, tools etc. I could drop mebbies a kg off that by trimming down similar to your kit list. So on the frame isn't really lighter, must be just a bit easier to manage.

I think I'll have to stump up and buy some of this kit, and be prepared to sell it if it doens't work how I want.

I think a tent, especially a Terra Nova Laser type thing, would be a lot of faff when you just want to crash for a few hours. You'd want to be quick about it. For an adventure race or similar, you'd probably have a lot more time to camp.

That's the best approach. I've been tuning my kit list for years and I suspect I'd do so again if I was taking on a 2,800 mile trip.

A tent can be psychologically better when the weather is rough and it's a pleasure to get everything under cover.

A bivi/tarp does allow more options in terms of pitching. I've often arrived at a spot I'd wanted to camp at and found nowhere suitable for a tent (in snow is an obvious one).

FWIW, I'm currently selling a Macpac Microlight one man tent and a couple of Thermarests...

Had a quick look at Wildcat and Revelate. Looks like both their bar and saddle 'solutions' <sigh> total ~28L so presumably you'd need to ride with a sack as well as I can't see a frame bag adding a sensible ~10L to the total?

@Moly. Kitting up to win a stage race is different from wobbling around in Scotland. Hardship is de reguerer when racing (apparently).

I think the Laser is the only suitably lightweight tent, but it's not a quick pitch. For recreational camping I'd have a tent, no question, but I think the TDR would be different. The biggest issue with tents besides the faff, for me, is the fact that I'd need to find somewhere flat. I hate being in a sloping tent, but I can manage fine bivvying on a slope.

Anyone slept in a decent quality hooped bivi? I'd be worried about condensation, but I'd get an expensive eVent one.

Hardship is de reguerer when racing

Nah, it'll be a cinch. I could book 3 weeks on a beach, but I reckon this'll be even easier.

There are some fantastic l/w tents from the US. Have a look at Big Agnes, MSR etc. Similar weight to the Laser but much quicker to pitch.

MSR Carbon reflex 1, 1140g packed. That could be a couple of hundred grammes worth carting about.

[img] [/img]

is it a tent or a mosquito net ?

That's the inner.

The problem with hooped bivis is that you need to peg them out to keep the hoops up.

Lots of nice tents out there, I'd not get hung up on the noisy "crisp-packet" that is the Laser.

That's the one Moly, Big Agnes do one very similar. I bought one of their Seedhouse tents (1.4kg - real 2 person) lastyear in the US and used it for ~50 nights on the trot. Brilliant. They do a lighter version now.

when its raining or midgies i just chuck my jacket over the opening of my bivvy (which ill be impressed if your tent weighs any where near ) and open the pit vent which gives me a mesh window to keep the air coming in and the beasties out.

also one key thing to remember is dont just consider weight -packed volume is as/if not more important than weight

boblo - of your 50 nights did it rain at all ? my experiance of big agnes tents in the rain has been a very wet one. designed for dry climates perhaps ?

How do you cook?

Yes. Biblical on occasion... The nearby creek turned into a torrent + flash flood. But, agreed. The US tents are really designed for hot/dry primarily though they are waterproof. Bit chilly in UK winter with all that mesh.

So I was liking the idea of bikepacking when it was a bit under the seat and a bit on the handlebars, but when people post pics of theri bike covered in bags / bottle holders, it does get me thinking that they're either carrying too much or why not use panniers.

I thought one of the things about bikepacking was that it also drove a super lightweight way of doing things.

when im bivvying i dont - i dont even carry a stove.

When im touring i do it in the porch of the tent - while im sitting outside , doesnt really provide much protection from rain or midgies either but preferable to blocking the only exit from my tent with flames

Do you multi day (night) bivvy?

I'm currently using one of these small tarps with an Rab Ascent eVent bivvy bag.

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/tarps-and-bivy-bags/WE106-7.html

The bag has midge netting round the U-shaped zip so it can be left open for ventilation.

Internal condensation seems to be very much dependent on prevailing weather conditions. I've been completely dry inside and I've had damp feet .

i try not to , but if i have to i try and eat take away.

[quote=boblo ]Do you multi day (night) bivvy?
So far no. But I don't see why not. I guess there's a sliding scale of comfort/deprivation depending on how interested you are in completing the route in a fast time (i.e. racing).

FWIW, I like cooking and eating outdoors. It's one of the pleasures of camping. I also don't mind using my stove in the alcove of the tent when I'm lying inside it. It warms the tent up too!

Interesting. I only bivvy when I'm up for a bit of hardship or après pub (when I used to drink). For multi night or potentially poor conditions (weather or beasties), I camp. There's not much in it weight wise with my kit so I usually go for the tent. I'm happy to cook zipped up as well.

I'm not sure I'd take a stove or cookable food on the TDR, just things that could be eaten cold. Depends on the distribution of eating establishments though I suppose.

How much does your bivi weigh, trail rat? The hooped ones I looked at were about 800g.

Marmot Home Alone bivi, with two hoops and a mesh door:

[img] [/img]

I must get some bivi practice in. I keep returning to the hammock and tarp as it's just so comfortable, roomy and versatile.

The tarp isn't the lightest, but it's large enough for 2 hammocks and bikes.

I like camping in woods anyway, so finding trees isn't a problem, but I know there will be some trips I want to do where trees simply wont be an option.

300 grams - if i was doing TD i wouldnt be using it.

id be looking at an enclosed bivvy with a mesh that can be used when not in the rain - like you i wouldnt be fussed at cooking

I'm baffled by those hooped bivis. Worst of both worlds, if you asked me.

I've used my 300g bivi for well over 100 nights in England, Scotland, Wales, America, Germany, and Canada; I find the weight and volume savings very worthwhile by making the riding more enjoyable. If the weather is uncooperative, I keep riding until I can find somewhere with a little shelter to sleep.

If I were going to be relaxing more in the evenings and thinking about cooking food etc., then I'd take a lightweight tent. The only one I've tried is the Laser and it's served me well.

Tarps and hooped bivis just seem to be less useful than either extreme. If you're thinking of the Divide in particular, there will be lots of places where there are no trees to attach a tarp to. So you might want to take poles, in which case you might as well just take a tent.

A tarp works well using a bike as a "pole".

That hooped bivy above is just a small, single-skin tent?

That hooped bivy above is just a small, single-skin tent?

Yep, it is.

I'd be attracted to a non-hooped bivi but I've read a lot of people saying they are awful if it's raining. Presumably it's just like having a bag over your head isn't it? I figured you'd need something to keep cold condensation covered fabric off your face, hence the hoop.

I guess as above, I'd have to try it. What make is yours Aidan?

So - you have all the pitching issues of a tent AND the problem of condensation?

I dunno - I think the hoops would keep the tent far enough away from your body so you didn't end up touching wet.. maybe...!

TBH that MSR tent is look good to me currently. Either that or the other extreme, a plain bivi.

Mine is a Terra Nova Discovery Light. I think they're quite expensive normally, but I picked it up from a bargain bin in a high street outdoor shop.

If you lie on your back, then you will get fabric in your face, but I sleep on my front in a bivi. If it's raining, I zip it nearly the whole way up and turn my head to the hole. If it's cold + wet, you'll probably be done up like a mummy in your sleeping bag, so the bivi isn't a lot more claustrophobic. I wouldn't say it's a 5* sleeping experience in those conditions, but it's not the end of the world.

Using the bike as a pole for a tarp is a good point. I did try that a couple of times but, since I mostly use the bivi for racing, I'm usually too tired to want to faff around with any sort of tarp pitching anyway. It could be nice for more of a touring trip, but I wouldn't kid myself that I was saving much weight over a tent.

Thanks for that description, food for thought.

I'm thinking rain is more likely to be an occasional rather than constant feature on the TDR.

Some sort of mesh opening would be nice for keeping insects out.. maybe I could rig something up with a bit of mozzie netting. There's a Rab bag that has a loop on top you can tie it up to something to keep the door open, and it has mesh in it. You could maybe tie that up to your bars if your bike's laid down, in the absence of trees or sticks.

[quote=Aidan ]It could be nice for more of a touring trip, but I wouldn't kid myself that I was saving much weight over a tent.
I agree - it's not a weight saving thing. It's either for flexibility of pitching or just for the added experience. There's something nice about peeping your head out of a bivvy bag and seeing what nature is up to 🙂

[quote=molgrips ] There's a Rab bag that has a loop on top you can tie it up to something to keep the door open, and it has mesh in it. You could maybe tie that up to your bars if your bike's laid down, in the absence of trees or sticks.
That's the one I have (last years model, no loop, make do with a cord and bit of velcro 😉 )

Since we are well off track from talking about bags...

If you lie on your back, then you will get fabric in your face, but I sleep on my front in a bivi. If it's raining, I zip it nearly the whole way up and turn my head to the hole.

Do you lie on your front face into the hood of the sleeping bag. I ask as my 2 bivvy bags are both drawstring types, so your 'hole' is at your mouth assuming your lying on your back. The one time i lay on my side (with breather hole still pointing up) the bag was full of condensation in the morning.

Maybe get one of those medical oxygen masks with a tube leading outside the bag?

I have to say, all this talk of gear and especially tents is getting me all worked up.. I love tents.. 🙂

STATO - Member
Since we are well off track from talking about bags...

If you lie on your back, then you will get fabric in your face, but I sleep on my front in a bivi. If it's raining, I zip it nearly the whole way up and turn my head to the hole.
Do you lie on your front face into the hood of the sleeping bag. I ask as my 2 bivvy bags are both drawstring types, so your 'hole' is at your mouth assuming your lying on your back. The one time i lay on my side (with breather hole still pointing up) the bag was full of condensation in the morning.

Yeah, apologies for taking it off the original topic, but the OP is still with us so maybe it's OK.

The zip on my bivi goes up the side anyway, so the breathing hole is naturally on the side. If I'm going to roll over during the night, I roll the bivi and the sleeping bag with me to keep the breathing space where I need it. Having the bivi bag upside down or sideways doesn't really make any difference (at least with my one) since it's waterproof all-round anyway.

I guess there might be an issue depending on how you use your sleeping mat. But, unless it's winter, I use MTFU instead of a sleeping mat anyway.

So does it get damp inside those bags? If you can vent your breathing? I'm a fairly warm sleeper (and a fat bastard by your standards) and get pretty sweaty after riding. For 300g and a smaller chance of rain I am now beginning to favour a plain bivi.

As for being OT I'm doing a lot of thinking about TDR currently since I might have a chance to do next year's, so it's all good. I didn't take part in the long bikepacking thread from a while back.

Re rolling over with the sleeping/bivi bag - besides the silly light bag I have that has no stuffing underneath (400g 0C rated, no mummy hood) I also have another bag that is understuffed on the bottom. Had it for ages before I realised that's why my arse was always cold, as a side sleeper. So I'm now in the habit of rolling over inside the bag.

My winter bag has a baffle above the shoulders so i tend to snug that tight and leave the hood a bit looser along with the bivvy opening, means i can roll around inside the 2 bags leaving the opening to the top. Prevents condensation in either bag but can be cold if its windy, sometimes add a primaloft jacket as a pillow so that ends up over my head as its not a problem if that gets a bit damp.

Would ideally like a fully enclosed deal but no 'moisture management' fabrics work for me, e-vent included.

eat_more_cheese, i was at sourlies bothy in May.

Guess what was outside 🙂

A broken rack, your's might not have died and is trying to come home, or more boring, someone else had snapped and ditched one.

Got panniers for going down tescos, if i ever get round to bikepacking then it will be a dry bag lashed to the rack, sleeping bag lashed to the handle bars, maybe a dry bag lashed to the seat tube.
Each to there own, from reading the topics here and bikepacking forums, it appears that for long periods of touring on fireroads and tarmac then front and rear panniers (or dare i speak it, a trailer) if i wish to go more rugged, short trips, singletrack, off road, then i would want to go light and have the bike more like a bike so slimline frame bags or lash bags into the frame.
Both ways have merits and failings, it could be that the more extreme end of "ultra light bikepacking" is more in vogue than "touring with panniers"

So far i haven't seen a in the wild ultra light bikepacking set up on my travels, apart from the bloke who rode into SSEC2010 and used a bivi bag.
I have only seen variations of panniers and trailers.

Well, racks have been around a while, and get heavily loaded up, so you'd have thought I'd be able to find one that won't break. Especially since they're designed for 25-35kg, and I'll be putting much less than that in. I reckon 5kg of kit at most, 10l of water at most during desert legs, and I fancy putting food in a bar bag.

Incidentally, I reckon I'd want to take loads of water on the desert bits, and I can't see where the frame/saddle/bar bag people have put it all. Unless they are carrying a lot less than I'd imagine needing.

I considered trailers, but I reckon the extra wheel would drag after 2,800 miles and I belive there is SOME singletrack to do, if not very much.

I'm wondering.. maybe I can design a 20l or so bag that attaches to a rack top and seatpost (avoiding clearance issues) but I could give it a couple of shoulder straps in case the rack breaks...

I'm wondering.. maybe I can design a 20l or so bag that attaches to a rack top and seatpost (avoiding clearance issues) but I could give it a couple of shoulder straps in case the rack breaks...

Buy an Alpkit Gourdon and have a play, cheap enough to try it. Might be worth trying a Hunka bivi from them too to see how you get on before spending loads on a Gore/eVent one.

[quote=molgrips ]Well, racks have been around a while, and get heavily loaded up, so you'd have thought I'd be able to find one that won't break. Especially since they're designed for 25-35kg, and I'll be putting much less than that in. I reckon 5kg of kit at most, 10l of water at most during desert legs, and I fancy putting food in a bar bag.
Incidentally, I reckon I'd want to take loads of water on the desert bits, and I can't see where the frame/saddle/bar bag people have put it all. Unless they are carrying a lot less than I'd imagine needing.
I considered trailers, but I reckon the extra wheel would drag after 2,800 miles and I belive there is SOME singletrack to do, if not very much.
I'm wondering.. maybe I can design a 20l or so bag that attaches to a rack top and seatpost (avoiding clearance issues) but I could give it a couple of shoulder straps in case the rack breaks...
It may be that with a bit of faffing and imagination you can come up with a solution that no one else has ever produced [i]or required[/i]. As you and I have already said on this thread, you really need to get out there and try some existing stuff before trying to re-invent the wheel. Personally, I reckon success at something like the TDR (and I mean even just completing it) has a lot less to do with kit and a lot more to do with the pilot, both physically and psychologically. The BB200 is in October, why not enter that as a starting point?