[Closed] Why are gravel bikes so expensive?

Interestingly there was a discussion on retrobike re the fact we are now running 2.1 tyres just like we did in the 90s

Scene tax - like VW T5's, Apple products etc

Because that's what folk will pay. Do you really think it is more complicated than that?

MTB have had hydraulic discs for near on 20 years, they exist cheaply and from just about any brand.
Road/Gravel/CX are late to the market and as they are integrated into the shifters there is much less choice, cable can be integrated into any existing lever so you can have cheaper/more choice

A better comparison would probably be with road bikes - find me the £700 road bikes with discs and 105
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/endurace/al/

What is wrong with Claris or Sora? Especially as you are comparing it to deore?

As a general rule for road bikes Aluminium 105 has been over £1100 since about 2012. Yes there are deals to be had and the internet sellers are cheaper. Tiagra aluminium bikes were the cycle to work bike of choice back in the day.
But then again for a decent hardtail, with a fairly light fork you’re still looking at £1200 nowadays.
Planet X offer the Space Monkey in carbon for approx £1600, hydro brakes.
The trek checkpoint is £1700 in aluminium and with Schwalbe 35mm tyres, but the equivalent road bike is £1600 (Domane) but with Bontrager tyres.
So I’d say it’s just a case of road bikes aren’t cheap and that is with as much in house components as possible, gravel bikes are similar price and spec but with a few added non brand components pushing the price that bit higher.
(My old commuter in 2012 was a Trek Domane ALR with old 105, it was £1050)

and on the like for like...

RRP on 105 Disc Groupset is £785
I couldn't find a RRP for Deore but SLX was £630

So expect deore to be a bit cheaper still so you are already looking for a fair bit more to get hold of your 105 groupset

Hydraulic sti groupsets are expensive. I spent £400 on the stis and calipers for my Mason, so that would leave £300 for the rest of the bike.

dawson

Subscriber
Scene tax – like VW T5’s, Apple products etc

scotroutes

Member
Because that’s what folk will pay. Do you really think it is more complicated than that?

Is that why they cost about the same as the equivalent road bike?

It might actually be a bit more too it than cynics claim,

Hydraulic sti groupsets are expensive

Even the brakes alone are eye watering. You can grab a set of deore brakes for less than half the cost of one sram hydro road/gravel brake

I’m glad I posted this as it’s cleared it up for me! I didn’t think about the difficulty of making a combined hydraulic brake and gear lever. Regarding group sets I’ve got bikes with deore, Claris and 105. I tend to think of deore and 105 as being equivalents of each other as being at the lower end but with brilliant performance (can’t fault them!), I didn’t realise there was such a cost difference. Regarding Claris, it’s just okay, it works but it’s not very refined, when I’m spending what to me is a lot of money I want to be able to tell where it’s gone.

Roughly;

XTR - Dura-Ace

XT - Ultegra

SLX - 105

Deore - Tiagra

Because that’s what folk will pay. Do you really think it is more complicated than that?

Is that why they cost about the same as the equivalent road bike?

I'll just let you think about that.

I've heard people (who aren't even usually remotely interested in cycling) saying they're thinking of getting a gravel bike. It's the current buzz phrase, the thing to have. That's why they're expensive.

Besides, I'm old skool: There's only mountain bikes and road bikes as far as I'm concerned. Anything else is just a slight variation decided by a marketing department.

Id considered a gravel bike but instead recently bought a second hand Pinnacle lithium 4 hybrid for £140 and have upgraded the wheels and tyres.
For the £270 it owes me following new wheels , tyres, brake pads and a service it does pretty much what a gravel bike does albeit with flat bars.
A new Lithium 5 is around £500 with hydraulic discs.

A new Lithium 5 is around £500 with hydraulic discs.

Put drops on it (along with hydraulic STIs) and the price will rise a lot as others have pointed out. The key difference between a road/gravel bike and an MTB with hydraulic disks are the integrated levers.

Carbon fork on a gravel/road bike is a similar cost to a basic sus fork at that level - the sus fork can be cheaper.

Besides, I’m old skool: There’s only mountain bikes and road bikes as far as I’m concerned. Anything else is just a slight variation decided by a marketing department.

There's an older-school from the 60s that could say they were there with gravel bikes long before MTBs existed..

In the mid 50's there was this, well before the MTB https://www.rsf.org.uk/about-us/history-and-beginnings.html

They are still there over 60 years later. In the mid 80's used to see them about when we were out on MTB's.

The trek checkpoint is £1700

AL3 is £1200 with last year's 105 hydraulic levers in 10sp

What hardtails you thinking of at that price? Are they Halfords and CRC?

105 is equivalent to SLX btw.

"105 is equivalent to SLX btw."

In terms of positioning, sure. In terms of actual effect I'd say it's a little above XT, with Ultegra pretty much equivalent to XTR and Dura-Ace a sort of XTR-plus-madness for rich people.

Groundhog day again,wasn't there an identical thread not long ago where mike(quite rightly)
made the same points...or was that about weight? 🙂

Even the brakes alone are eye watering. You can grab a set of deore brakes for less than half the cost of one sram hydro road/gravel brake

Always wanted to replace my cable with hydro but agreed the after market prices were eyewatering .It was only a a couple of hundred quid more to buy a complete bike.Managed to get some Shimano hydro stis on offer at CRC for about £170 so considering you get the shifters and brakes price was reasonable compared to MTB.

It's not just the hydraulic levers. My (basic) road bike, decent frame plus Sora kit, needs a new front wheel, brake and right lever assembly. The latter was smashed up in a crash a couple of months ago - but even Sora level levers are pretty steep compared to separate MTB shifters and brakes of the same standard. Given the back wheel and drivetrain are also pretty goosed, it almost makes more sense just to get a new bike (and yeah, it'd be a gravel bike rather than another road bike, i.e. replacing the road, not the mountain bike).

if you think it's expensive now wait until the end of March! buy now!

It could actually be cheaper after a no deal as tariffs will be dropped.

It could actually be cheaper after a no deal as tariffs will be dropped.

Only if your using a different currency 😉

The shifters/brifters cost about 5 times the mountain equivalent. A lot don't use hydros because you can theoretically find cable easier in the middle of nowhere on your gravel touring/adventure.

Gravel bikes also do odd combos of kit (mtb rear derailleur etc) which isn't quite as easy to knock out.

Plus they are having a moment. People will move on to something new and they'll drop in price.

People will move on to something new and they’ll drop in price.

The margins on gravel bikes are the same as other bikes at an equivalent price level. If anything a gravel bike at £1k from a number of brands is a good deal as it's a competitive price point and margins there tend to be a bit lower. There's no such thing as fashion tax, if anything it works the other way round. There's a brand tax though, got to support those pro riders etc somehow.

So basically, it's the carbon fork, brifters and (particularly) the hydro brakes sucking up the budget? Seems a reasonable explanation.

Dunno if this counts as a gravel bike, but it might be exactly what the OP reckons doesn't exist...
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-energie-cyclocross-bike-apex-1x11-2019/rp-prod168781

No, wasn't suggesting the margins were different but when demand drops and supply doesn't (at least initally) curve moves.
I don't believe the margin on last year's bike colour (way) were any different but they still end up with 30% discount.

jameso

...There’s an older-school from the 60s that could say they were there with gravel bikes long before MTBs existed..

Guilty as charged. 🙂

More accurately almost every bike was gravel capable because they had the clearances.

As the demand for better braking came in, the way to get it was to have shorter reach brakes so less energy was wasted flexing the brake arms, and the only way to get that was to bring the bridges closer to to the rim (unless you used a cantilever - which only seemed to be on French bikes in my youth).

In this clip, at 17:36, one of the Taylor brothers is explaining just that. (Jack Taylor bikes were extremely well made and it's worth watching the whole video if you're interested in steel classics).

It's a tax on the stupid.
Just take a look at the types of people who ride these bikes (you'll find them on Instagram). Generally deluded middle aged men that've got some wild idea in their heads that they're going to go off into the wilderness "exploring".
Where do they live?
The South East, the most densely populated area in Europe.

It looks like the business to get into though, these lot are happy to spend several thousands of pounds on a bike for pottering round the lanes on, so long as it's made from Titanium and called something like Resolution.

You can kind of understand the reason for spending several thousand on an MTB, even if you aren't Steve Peat, it still gets a good hammering. But LOL, these gravel bikes; the adverts sell you a false dream. The reality is they're just a boring road bike or a less capable mountain bike for double the price. Just get a hardtail and keep your self respect.

^ ha, yes epicyclo, applies to you and the French randonneurs equally!

It looks like the business to get into though, these lot are happy to spend several thousands of pounds on a bike for pottering round the lanes on, so long as it’s made from Titanium and called something like Resolution.

oooo swoons 😉

most capable bike I've owned, spanned a bigger range than most without proper compromise 🙂 No idea why you would make it out of Ti though, solid Carbon fun machine

But LOL, these gravel bikes; the adverts sell you a false dream. The reality is they’re just a boring road bike or a less capable mountain bike for double the price. Just get a hardtail and keep your self respect.

View this post on Instagram

Nice bit of out there instagram for you 😉
The ad sold me a bike that can belt along the roads at a decent pace, get me places we used to call "XC" cover ground my road bike wouldn't like.

To be honest it's been about the best investment I've made in bikes for a while.

As a general rule for road bikes Aluminium 105 has been over £1100 since about 2012.

Erm no I paid £1k for a lovely full carbon 105 road bike last year.

Erm no I paid £1k for a lovely full carbon 105 road bike last year.

RRP or on sale?

Funkydunc,
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/search/road-racing/2012/?m=Aluminium+Alloy&p=+£1001+to+£1300
My reference wasn’t internet retailer or sale price. But a general statement from the large brands for cycle to work scheme bikes.
Example of my old commuter from 2012...
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/trek/2-3-2012
The giant defy in 2012 with 105 and rim brakes was £1000.
The Spec Allez with Tiagra was £900. 105 was £1200.
Cannondale Synapse 2012 with 105 was £1100.
Currently the 2019 Trek Checkpoint gravel bike with 105 is £1700, equivalent road bike £1750.

I’m middle aged and I live in the South East. I use one of my road bikes for gravel rides, it takes 33mm tyres. Will be getting a bike that takes 47mm tyres soon. I’ll keep my road bikes for racing on. My gravel bike will be used for commuting and for making my long rides more comfortable. Road and off road through UK, Wales, most of Spain...hey forked keep going with the generalisations.
I also have a full sus that gets used a lot and not for bridleways.

Bloody roadies clogging up out MTB forum.

Disc tax.

I reckon if someone was brave enough to manufacture a gravel bike with DECENT cable rim brake e.g. high level Mini-Vs with good pads, they could market it as lighter and cheaper than the equivalents, might remind people that rim brakes still have a place.

Problem is they're up against a cycling media who for the past couple of years have been diligently pushing disc brakes as the only possible solution to slowing a bike down...

I reckon if someone was brave enough to manufacture a gravel bike with DECENT cable rim brake e.g. high level Mini-Vs with good pads, they could market it as lighter and cheaper than the equivalents, might remind people that rim brakes still have a place.
Problem is they’re up against a cycling media who for the past couple of years have been diligently pushing disc brakes as the only possible solution to slowing a bike down…

Yeah, but who wants to replace three wheelsets per winter?

Personally I don't think they are expensive.

You can get a really good bike for 1k. A great bike for 2k.

When you compare to mtb and road bikes where the starting point for a good bike seems to be getting higher and higher all the time. Anything under 2k in these categories is considered entry level nowadays.

It’s a tax on the stupid.
Just take a look at the types of people who ride these bikes (you’ll find them on Instagram). Generally deluded middle aged men that’ve got some wild idea in their heads that they’re going to go off into the wilderness “exploring”.
Where do they live?
The South East, the most densely populated area in Europe.
It looks like the business to get into though, these lot are happy to spend several thousands of pounds on a bike for pottering round the lanes on, so long as it’s made from Titanium and called something like Resolution.
You can kind of understand the reason for spending several thousand on an MTB, even if you aren’t Steve Peat, it still gets a good hammering. But LOL, these gravel bikes; the adverts sell you a false dream. The reality is they’re just a boring road bike or a less capable mountain bike for double the price. Just get a hardtail and keep your self respect.

This post is either the best troll or the biggest load of crap I have read on this forum for quite some time. Well done sir/madam.

This post is either the best troll or the biggest load of crap I have read on this forum for quite some time. Well done sir/madam.

But it's not a million miles away though is it 🙂

The best trolling has more than a grain of truth about it.

But it’s not a million miles away though is it

Then its on par with the majority of folks riding 4k gnarpoons round thier local red loop in full face helmets and body armour thinking it makes them like Danny Hart. Deluded middle aged men who still think they are "rad" because they hop off a couple of 1ft drops.

Or the the other lot riding 6k super bikes in full team kit on 60 mile sportives pretending to be Chris Froome.
At the end of the day, we all like riding bikes. And if you spend a lot of time doing something then its nice to do it with the best (or just decent) kit.

Then its on par with the majority of folks riding 4k gnarpoons round thier local red loop in full face helmets and body armour thinking it makes them like Danny Hart. Deluded middle aged men who still think they are “rad” because they hop off a couple of 1ft drops.

Or the the other lot riding 6k super bikes in full team kit on 60 mile sportives pretending to be Chris Froome.

Yes and Yes.. It astounds me how few riders actually ride the bike best suited to their actual trails rather than the bike they want.

Arguably, i could be one... 🙂

Then its on par with the majority of folks riding 4k gnarpoons round thier local red loop in full face helmets and body armour thinking it makes them like Danny Hart. Deluded middle aged men who still think they are “rad” because they hop off a couple of 1ft drops.

This is the real reason so many MTBers don't like the Gravel bike scene. Having justified a long/slack/low 160mm gnarpoon to themselves based on the rad trails they are riding, seeing someone on the same trails riding a skinny-tyred, drop-barred bike upsets their feeling of self-worth. It's a defensive mechanism.

Then its on par with the majority of folks riding 4k gnarpoons round thier local red loop in full face helmets and body armour thinking it makes them like Danny Hart.

Totally. Embrace the absurdity of our hobby rather than get defensive about it.

As long as people are out pedaling any bike in the great outdoors it's great anyway.

Totally. Embrace the absurdity of our hobby rather than get defensive about it.
As long as people are out pedaling any bike in the great outdoors it’s great anyway.

except e-bikes, nobody likes e-bikes right?

Yeah, but who wants to replace three wheelsets per winter?

This is a myth. I replaced one set of rims a year when I was mountainbiking through the winters with rim brakes, and that was proper hilly muddy winter MTB. Am on my second winter on the stock rims of my rim braked winter bike.

The people who are wearing rims out at that rate are the exception, not the rule.

Deluded middle aged men who still think they are “rad” because they hop off a couple of 1ft drops

Oi! I'll have you know I can ride through shallow water too! 🙂

The people who are wearing rims out at that rate are the exception, not the rule.

Then the also run crap if your wheel goes out of true, I have zero interest in going back to rim brakes on any of my bikes, nowt to do with marketing or any of that I just like the way they work

TBH I don't think the move to disk brakes is marketing led at all. In fact I reckon most of the manufacturers have been dragging their heels, caught up with the restriction that the UCI placed on CX racing and not catering for the recreational rider that really wanted more than 33mm tyres. I look back at photos of my Kona Sutra and ask where the other big players were. It was around 10 years before Giant caught up with the Revolt, the Specialized Diverge etc.

Then the also run crap if your wheel goes out of true

At the risk of turning this into the old disc vs. rim argument, I'd rather true a buckled wheel than a buckled rotor. Currently I spend more time trying to straighten rotors than wheels (albeit just to stop them skiffing and chiming, they're not slowing me down).

Also not suggesting that the move to discs was purely marketing led, but am suggesting that the idea that disc brakes are the ONLY solution for gravel bikes very much is. Depends on your flavour of gravel but I don't need a set of disc brakes to negotiate minor roads and forest tracks!

My point was mainly that people seem to agree that discs make gravel bikes more expensive than equivalent rim braked bikes, and I believe there is room for a few rim braked gravel bikes on the market, lighter and cheaper, surely that's a win-win for a given subset of riders.

I'm a fully paid up retro grouch and I'd not go back to rim brakes over disk, regardless of the use.

13FM-Cheap bikes are never light tho a coupe of hundred grams off a heavy cheap bike is immaterial. And the only folk that want rim brakes on high end cross bikes are the purists/vanity types.

It still beguiles me that you've not got on with disc brakes when pretty much everyone else does!

This appears to be behind your logic more than anything else.

IMO now it's proper road bikes that are niche and weirdly expensive. I'll probably be riding mine 2 or 3 times this year, solely for long sportives. Otherise I'll just use my "gravel" bike (although I bought it before gravel was really a thing 😂) as it's way more versatile. TBH I wouldn't buy another proper road bike these days (and don't really see why anyone would unless they're actually racing), I'd just spend the money on a nicer/lighter gravel bike instead.

13thfloormonk

At the risk of turning this into the old disc vs. rim argument, I’d rather true a buckled wheel than a buckled rotor.

I can't think of a time when I've buckled a rotor out on the bike, but rims certainly, and that was decades ago. For the sort of use gravel bikes get I'd be surprised by a buckled rim because modern rims are much better.

I've had many a warped disk though, and that irritates me, but it's not something that needs a roadside repair.

But the answer to both problems is drum brakes. 🙂

I can’t think of a time when I’ve buckled a rotor out on the bike, but rims certainly, and that was decades ago. For the sort of use gravel bikes get I’d be surprised by a buckled rim because modern rims are much better.

Mine went out of true a few times, not bucked just not true

Gravel bike scene.

I don't think any but the strangest mtb'er dislikes gravel bikes, for many riders they're the best bike for the job. It's just this whole scene thing 🙄 It's just riding bikes like many of us always have, but on a basically retro drop handlebared mtb (with better brakes).

It’s just riding bikes like many of us always have, but on a basically retro drop handlebared mtb (with better brakes, geometry, handlebars, tyres, wheels, forks, hubs, gearing, cranks, headsets).

fixed that for you

I've not RATS but I do wonder why road sti si mo much more pricey than mtb sti/shifters (unless the way it's integrated, like the flippy mtb shifters everyone hated is intrisically more £££)

I’ve not RATS but I do wonder why road sti si mo much more pricey than mtb sti/shifters

They have been around for about 10 mins compared to mtb. Stuff will get cheaper but for anyone who isn't sram or shimano you need to release something that does the shifter job too so not as easy a marker to get into.
The big boys are taking it down the product line as they usually do working out how to get cost down one step at a time.

They have been around for about 10 mins compared to mtb.

If 30 years = 10 mins

Well worth a read.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2019/01/22/all-road-bikes-are-the-road-bikes-of-the-future/

And it should keep the gravel pedants happy because it uses the term all-road for the category.

Now they don't have to worry about gravel heretics getting mud and rocks on their carefully groomed and smoothed special gravel with impure bikes.*

We'll be out rough-stuffing on real tracks with our all-road bikes instead. 🙂

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*NB tongue firmly in cheek.

Never heard of buckled rotors. Are they even a thing? Trying to work out how on earth you'd even do it! Reversing over your bike with your car, perhaps?

Well worth a read.

Are you sure? An MTB or hybrid would still be just as good for most cyclists.

"In other words: All-road bikes will becomes the go-to bike for most cyclists. Racing and mountain bikes will move to the fringes of the market, used for very specialized applications where all-road bikes reach their limits"

And don't you worry, I can still be pedantic about "all-road" as it clearly means a road of some sort meaning an all road bike is not intended to ride over fields, over rocks etc,. For that you will need an all terrain bike which I believe has been done 40 years ago...

It’s so poor mtbikers can’t afford them then look at us with envy as we whizz past gurning on the drops in a cool mix of Lycra and baggies whilst our beards flow freely in the wind.

But the answer to both problems is drum brakes

The questions: "what brake is heavier than discs" and "what brake works worse than cantis"?

They have been around for about 10 mins compared to mtb.

Erm...road still has been around longer (just) than mtb. - I didn't refer to hydraulic-sti.

Apologies Al, it did read that it was still in the context of hydro brakes.

NP 😃

Do leading questions lead to useful answers, yes or no? 😉

I bought my first ATB in 1991 from a bike shop. It was 274.99 IIRC. Last years model

Bought my second 'ATB' in 2017 from a bike shop. It was £750.00. Last years model.

1990
Dawes Tracker
Reynolds 500 butted cromoly tubing
Rigid steel forks
Shimano Exage 21spd with thumb-shifters
Cable cantilever brakes
26" Araya alloy rims 1.75 wire bead tyres

2016
Genesis Vagabond
Double-butted cromoly tubing
Rigid steel forks
Deore 20spd with bar-end shifters
Cable disc brakes
29er Alex alloy rims (tubeless-ready) 2.1" folding tyres

So nearly 30 yrs on - and for an extra tenner or so - I got bigger wheels, better spec - and disc brakes! I lost one gear though. So there is that.

Erratum *Reynolds 500 plain-gauge. Not butted.

Wondered why it weighed a tonne! New ATB/gravelventuremonstertour is custom-butted and 12kg-ish, so also no lightweight but certainly reassuring when lobbing it around off kerbs like a trendy old man on a Sunday afternoon trip to the cake-bar/pub/bimbletrack 😎

Then and now for the same price - no competition.

I know that doesn't answer yr question OP, but just showing that 'fashion tax' is probably a bolx hypothetical herein, as someone suggested. 'Gravel' is a very sensible multisurface capable (normally) rigid bike. As is 'monster-cross' IMO, of course. Not sure what type of hardtail MTB I'd get for the same price - but the newer version of my '08 P7 w/lockout turnkey forks is way out of my pocket nowadays.

kerley

...And don’t you worry, I can still be pedantic about “all-road” as it clearly means a road of some sort meaning an all road bike is not intended to ride over fields, over rocks etc,. For that you will need an all terrain bike which I believe has been done 40 years ago…

You're fighting a quixotic nomenclature war against bikes that can go places where your skinny tyred Rocinante cannot.*

Just as we do not call bicycles velocipedes, so we do not call our bikes all terrain, or ATBs.

I agree ATB is actually a better definition of what we ride than gravel, all-road, or even monstertour, but it's a name lost in the mists of time and conjures up visions of a 3 ton BSO. Similarly hybrid which conjures up images of a traditional style roadster equipped with low grade groupsets and a crappy fork.

On another forum I asked the question what gravel bikes can take 2"  and plus tyres, and the list is just getting bigger and bigger.

The mainstream manufacturers are now onboard that gravel bikes should have tyres that are comfortable and competent on all surfaces likely to be met and that there's a bigger market than the heads down racers.

No one is bigger than the market and the market has spoken, and the word is gravel.

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*not intended as an insult, sticking to your guns is an admirable characteristic.