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why have bars and stems gone to 35mm ?
Who knows. At least its mm, and no daft imperial wheel 'sizes'...
We'd have to call it 1 1/8"
So that you will think you need it and buy more things.
35 was always the downhill size. With the rise in enduro, people were looking to get DH or DH-lite equipment onto trail or all mountain bikes.
Overall seems like a bit of a miss but not terrible (my bike has one, not bothered enough to pay the money to change).
Irritating if you a serial fiddler trying to get your optimal stem length and your box full of used stems don’t work.
the bars i want are 22mm so i will need a new stem even tho the stem is ok
35 was always the downhill size
Since when? I've never had a DH bike with 35mm bars. As far as I can remember 35mm appeared after bars started reaching 800mm in width and they've only become standard kit in the last few years.
I did just buy a bike with 35mm bars and immediately swapped them for my preferred 31.8 combo. Mostly because the OEM stem looked like half a house brick. Also the ones I've ridden in the past were brutally stiff.
Because of carbon, no? Pointless anyway (and mine are 35mm).
Since when
^fair point, trying to google now to see when they came in, it’s bloody difficult as there are 35mm length stems, and bars with 35mm rise confusing matters.
Believe my point still stands about (possibly needless) beefing up of trail/AM bikes to make them ‘enduro specific’
I think it was Easton’s fault, when they widened the Havoc bar to 800mm:
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/Eastons-35-millimeter-Handlebar-Standard-for-DH-800mm-Havoc-2012.html
https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/handlebars-saddles/easton-havoc-35-review-headtube.html
I also can't remember when they came out but I do remember reading the justification for it which was wider bars making a larger, stronger tube and bigger clamping area necessary.
I then remember the reviews where people complained how stiff and unforgiving they are. This is how I felt on a handful of test rides and demo bikes where I found them to be pointlessly harsh for no real benefit. I've been avoiding them ever since.
If you read the marketing spiel on some new 35mm bars you'll find they've been expertly tuned to be just as comfortable as your old bars. This just leads me to believe the whole exercise was completely pointless.
EDIT: beaten to it^^
That rings a bell actually because those Easton bars and stems were the first ones I rode on a mates V10 and we both had savage arm pump. He switched back to 31.8 and when I bought a YT Tues a year or so later it came with Renthal 31.8 setup.
Can't believe how long ago it was!
35 was always the downhill size.
No, it really wasn’t.
*Edit. Apologies for my bluntness - it was unwarranted.
marketing wins again!
Last set of bars I bought were - had no issues with 31.8, but there were fewer options in that diameter.
the bars i want are 22mm
Is it for a motorcycle, a BMX or have you gone for an oddball choice that was obviously going to need either a replacement stem or shim?
They look cooler
I have Renthal Fatbar Lites on both bikes; one pair 31.8mm, the other 35mm. I’ve only got the 35mm ones because one of my bikes came with nice 800mm RaceFace carbon bars, and years later when I decided I wanted more rise and less width I didn’t want to buy a new stem, as the RaceFace 35mm clamp one worked very well.
Unfortunately the 35mm ones are on my Levo but the others on my hardtail so it’s impossible to filter out the change in feel. On their own the extra 1.5” of wheel side, 10mm more front travel and 157mm more rear travel changes the feel at the hands rather a lot - far more than 3.2mm extra bar!
There’s no doubt it’s not that hard to flex both these handlebars a fair way but it’s predictable and doesn’t seem to mess up handing.
I like 35mm bars and stems. For the more Wookie sized amongst us they work great. I’m running an 810mm Deity bar and an I9 A35 stem which feels excellent to me, especially for big drops. I found 31.8 was way too noodley and vague. It’s the same reason I prefer the Zeb to the Lyrik, it goes where I point it 🙂
35mm stem and bars were on the bike when I bought it. Seemed silly not to have them. Made riding awkward.
Overall I prefer the look of low rise 35mm bars over low rise 31.8. Just looks better. Is it stiffer? Snake oil? Marketing? Or all of the above???
Funny repies above.
It's quite obviously because everyone currently has some other size, so if we change it then everyone will buy shit loads more stuff.
Bigger is better. Obv
^ this
you can get shims for bars any size you want
35 to 31.8
31.8 to 25.4
31.8 to 22.2 for running mx or bmx bars
Because it’s 1 louder than 34?
I'm no entirely sure its caught on so much as other 'standards' though.
Every single person I ride with has 27.5 or 29" wheels, obviously. They have Boost (or super boost) hubs. Post Mount Brakes. Outboard bearing BBs. etc etc.
But I dont know many/anyone running 35mm diameter bars? Its certainly not been pushed as much as other developments from what I have seen.
I have 31.8mm on my hardtail and 35mm on my full squish, do i feel a difference between the two? No.
Only reason i went 35mm on the squish is because the bars i wanted werent available in 31.8mm.
Feel absolutely no difference between the two and out of curiosity i did swap the bars and stems from one bike to the other and still felt no difference.
IMHO - snakeoil go for whatever bars you like.
you can get shims for bars any size you want
35 to 31.8
I'd be well impressed if you could get shims to take a 35 to a 31.8 🤔
Mine are 25.4 🙂
I’d be well impressed if you could get shims to take a 35 to a 31.8
35 stem to 31.8 bar? You are easily impressed
It’s quite obviously because everyone currently has some other size, so if we change it then everyone will buy shit loads more stuff.
This ^^^^^^^
Wasn't 35mm a roadie standard first? I'm sure I remember Easton and Deda pushing it. Part of the reasoning being touted was that it meant less of a bulge from the clamp to the "wing" section on aero shaped bars. That and roadie bars are hard to get right. You want them stiff at the ends in the drops but tomalso absorb buzz on the flat/hoods which is impossible. But you can combine a stiff bar with a compliant fork and D shaped steerer tube to get the right effect.
35 stem to 31.8 bar? You are easily impressed
Wooooshhhhhh *joke flies overhead*
That's not what was written, you can't shim a BAR from and to those sizes. They've been written the wrog way round (or bar needs replacing with stem).
But I dont know many/anyone running 35mm diameter bars? Its certainly not been pushed as much as other developments from what I have seen.
More seriously..
I bought a new "trail" bike back in 2015 and it came with 35mm bars as the default. I think any bike with RaceFace OEM equipment has done since about 2014/15
Pretty sure it was RF who first pushed it as the best way to make 750mm+ width bars lighter and/or stronger.
35mm is fairly pointless when most people (like Renthal) have tried to engineer them to feel the same as 31.8.
I was reading something somewhere recently (PB or NSMB) that said stuff carbon wheels had highlighted how stiff and uncomfortable actually 35mm bars were.
It’s an ‘industry standard’ that has meant companies needed to offer that option rather than wanted to.
There we go - 2012 article on Pinkbike
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Eastons-35-millimeter-Handlebar-Standard-for-DH-800mm-Havoc-2012.html
"Previously, Easton offered a conventional 31.8 millimeter bar in a 750-millimeter width, but when pressed to widen it to 800, its design team was not satisfied with testing results."
Yes, that’s the same link I posted higher up the thread!
It seems to be a failed standard, or heading that way?
It's pretty funny that people rode stiff 35mm bars and then said 35mm Bars Are Too Stiff. Like you can't get widely varying stiffness- my 31.8 enves were stiffer than I'd ever want and my crank bros bars are made of rubber.
chiefgrooveguru
Yes, that’s the same link I posted higher up the thread!
Good link 😀
Wooooshhhhhh *joke flies overhead*
Sure did, he should have used a smiley. I thought he was just being a nob 🤷♂️
It seems to be a failed standard, or heading that way?
Is it? I was getting the feeling it’s all that will be available in future so it’s what I would buy. Bit like if I was buying a bike I’d go 29 for fear of 27.5 tyres and rims getting less well supported
It seems to be a failed standard
It does sort of, it's been about for a while now but certainly hasn't been universally/widely adopted, at the same time it's not vanished, you can buy plenty of bars in both 31.8 and 35mm flavours...
Why does it exist?
Various companies got overexcited and thought they could trick more sales out of us stupid punters, it's not really panned out for them through...
I wouldn't go out of my way to buy 35mm bars/stem for any bike...
I was getting the feeling it’s all that will be available in future so it’s what I would buy
It's been around for a decade or so and not really put a dent in 31.8mm sales.
It's more likely that the "bike industry" will come up with another one of their ungentlemanly agreements and simultaneously change the upper diameter of steerer tubes and handlebar clamps just to really knacker backwards compatibility...
I think it's doing better than 25.4 despite not "panning out" 🙂
How's 35mm taking off with the roadies? Many road bike manufacturers embraced it?
I spent ages looking for a particular stem / colour combo in 31.8, then discovered that Burgtec don't actually make it. Got annoyed. Then realised my bars were, in fact, 35mm and I hadn't noticed. So that was nice.
It's definitely one of the more pointless innovations in recent MTB history, but it's here to stay alongside 31.8mm now.
I suspect eebs have boosted its popularity in recent years, for both extra stiffness and the chonky look.
It’s more likely that the “bike industry” will come up with another one of their ungentlemanly agreements and simultaneously change the upper diameter of steerer tubes and handlebar clamps just to really knacker backwards compatibility…
I'm waiting for D-shaped steerer tubes to come to MTB.
Integrated cables for the XC crowd, 30mm stems for Enduro. Both will claim the other is a fashion victim.
It’s been around for a decade or so and not really put a dent in 31.8mm sales.
Not true, 35mm outsells 31.8mm now. Almost all mid-high end bikes now come with 35, and people swapping stock bars might not want to replace the stem just to get 31.8mm.
It was a stupid idea to start with, but it's here to stay and is the new normal. FWIW 31.8mm bars do look a bit weird on modern chunky frames/ebikes.
Because we're suckers.
Because we’re suckers.
Only if you change because you think you “must”.
For me it’s a non issue. Last three bikes came with it. Only the alloy bars on the Whyte felt too stiff, changed them to One Up, which are much nicer. Alloy ones on Merida and Santa Cruz carbon have both been fine and are still on 5 years later.
Plenty have bought into it. I'm not a fan.
I’m waiting for D-shaped steerer tubes to come to MTB.
It would put an end to my stem alignment faffing.
done 2 good offroad rides now on the 35mm stuff.
it all seems fine.
bars a bit to flat, i.e low rise. gonna swap em for some 40mm rise nukeproof bars.
It would put an end to my stem alignment faffing.
Even just a keyway would do! Why is that not a thing?
why have bars and stems gone to 35mm
Because we’re suckers.
Because we demand it (and then complain about it)
Because more is better. But too much more is too much. There isn't anything I can think of (I'm typing this whilst mid-week drunk so haven't actually thought) in mountain biking that has been improved by attaching a smaller number to it the name of progress (except maybe the number of cogs attached to your crank)
In an era of finite element analysis you'd think that the optimal diameter of anything (or number of cogs attached to anything) could be established. Perhaps it has been. But the bike buying public always wants things to be different so theres an excuse to buy it, and are also annoyed that things have changes because it devalues the choices they've previously made and the things they've already bought that they thought put them ahead of the curve. So we get change for the sake of it, but not too much change.
Why didn't we jump straight from 7 speed to 14 speed? (I've stopped paying attention - are there 14 speed cassettes yet? - there will be). We creep towards optimal, millimetre by millimetre, cog by cog, because we're both too conservative to accept change and also too hungry for novelty to accept what we have as adequate.
You bought the bars that you wanted 20 years ago. You've not changed shape, the world around you that you ride your bike in hasn't changed, the physics of riding a bike are the same - but you want different bars. Even though you want different bars you're annoyed that bars are different. 🙂
that makes sense mate. well written.
I should get drunk on a Thursday more often, Its been 30 years since 'giro day happy hours' 🙂
There isn’t anything I can think of (I’m typing this whilst mid-week drunk so haven’t actually thought) in mountain biking that has been improved by attaching a smaller number to it the name of progress (except maybe the number of cogs attached to your crank)
Head angle
You’ve not changed shape
Sucks stomach in 😀
And fork offset and stem length. I’m on a roll and only halfway through my first drink
Funny thing is when they first came out, CRC had nukeproof 35mm bars and stems going at huge discounts. Probably not enough bikes took than size or it was unpopular and they were selling off the stock.
I also seem to remember(though this is probably the same as every new component ever released) talk of the bars vibrating(no idea).
Pretty much had the same low take up of tapered steerers and CRC and others were selling top forks at 70% off, just because there was at the time few bikes running tapered headtubes.
I felt at the time I should have picked something up but never did 🙁
you want different bars. Even though you want different bars you’re annoyed that bars are different.
Sorry to be a stick-in-the-mud, but I've sussed out that bars and stems are among the few non-consumable items on my bikes. I can see me keeping my current (31.8mm) ones for many, many more years.
It seems to be a failed standard
Aren't they all? I mean, you could say that about 135mm rear hubs or 26" wheels. I *think* I've got 35mm on my Spesh, but honestly I couldn't say without looking at them. Certainly not harsher than any other bars I've used in the past.
I'm collecting parts for a new build.
I stuck with 31.8 (Hope stem, RF bars) mostly because I have an old Hope Vision 4 light which still works very well as wouldn't fit on a 35mm bar.
Speaking to a guy in my LBS and he assures me that the 31.8mm standard isn't going to disappear.
25.4mm bars - 1"
31.8mm bars - 1 1/4"
35mm bars - erm....godammit! Why not make them 38.1mm & kept it consistent!!?
maccruiskeen
why have bars and stems gone to 35mm
Because we’re suckers.
Because we demand
But the bike buying public always wants things to be different so theres an excuse to buy it, and are also annoyed that things have changes because it devalues the choices they’ve previously made and the things they’ve already bought that they thought put them ahead of the curve. So we get change for the sake of it, but not too much change.
We creep towards optimal, millimetre by millimetre, cog by cog, because we’re both too conservative to accept change and also too hungry for novelty to accept what we have as adequate.
but you want different bars. Even though you want different bars you’re annoyed that bars are different.
Erm. Nope.
Road bike - 2x9 - no disc brakes, no shock absorbing headsets or other flim flam.
Hardtail - 26" rigid, 3x9, no dropper
Full Sus - 26", 3x9, no dropper, no snifter of 35mm bars, no LLS
Dinosaur? Maybe.
wouldn’t fit on a 35mm bar.
Hope makes a 35mm mount, if needs be.
Road bike – 2×9 – no disc brakes, no shock absorbing headsets or other flim flam.
Hardtail – 26″ rigid, 3×9, no dropper
Full Sus – 26″, 3×9, no dropper, no snifter of 35mm bars, no LLSDinosaur? Maybe.
You sound like a Klunkersaurus.
sharkattack
You sound like a Klunkersaurus.
HA HA! Tightarseosaur, more like.
That sounds wrong.
I was going to swap the full-sus over to 1x but got cold sweats & changed my mind.
35mm outsells 31.8mm now. Almost all mid-high end bikes now come with 35, and people swapping stock bars might not want to replace the stem just to get 31.8mm.
This was absolutely my experience recently. Loads of 35mm supply about. Not loads of 31.8mm. Luckily I got what I wanted in 31.8mm (I like Spank vibrocore) to fit my existing stem.
You sound like a Klunkersaurus.
Oi!
31.8mm bars – 1 1/4″
35mm bars – erm….godammit! Why not make them 38.1mm & kept it consistent!!?
Can you imagine the confusion....
"I'm sure it said 31.8 not 38.1 on the order"
stumpy01
HA HA! Tightarseosaur, more like.
That sounds wrong.
Tightersorarse???
I was going to swap the full-sus over to 1x but got cold sweats & changed my mind.
That was a good choice, you've left it way too long. A new 29er will feel like an absolute flying machine and you get to enjoy 'new bike day'.
maccruiskeen
Full MemberBecause we demand it (and then complain about it)
That's the idea, in practice the biggest customers for parts aren't individuals, they're bike company procurement people. So something like this, or an axle standard, customers tend to follow the OEMs. If you buy new bars you usually fit what's on it
25.4mm bars – 1″
31.8mm bars – 1 1/4″
35mm bars – erm….godammit! Why not make them 38.1mm & kept it consistent!!?
They're actually 34.9mm = 1 3/8"
35 sounds cooler than 34.9 that's all.
Hope makes a 35mm mount, if needs be.
But I already have the 31.8mm mount and can see no real benefit in using 35mm.
Thanks though, I wasn't aware they did.
sillyoldman
Full Member25.4mm bars – 1″
31.8mm bars – 1 1/4″
35mm bars – erm….godammit! Why not make them 38.1mm & kept it consistent!!?They’re actually 34.9mm = 1 3/8″
I'm guessing most of these standards originate in the U.S. where they still prefer imperial measurements.
I mean, you could say that about 135mm rear hubs or 26″ wheels.
No, you really couldn't.
So that you will think you need it and buy more things.
Don't you know Ton? He doesn't need an excuse, he spends money on bikes & stuff like a man with 10 arms who owns a money factory! 🙂