I saw a post earlier from Five Land Bikes featuring a rack full of fresh Cotic E-Rocket's so more than a few people have pushed the button.
I like them. I understand why they look the way they do, I'm on board with the logic. It's a really nice steel frame that probably rides really well. It's just got a big ugly battery bolted to it which serves a purpose.
I'd happily ride one but with a 6k price tag on the frameset my opinion is irrelevant.
I bet at least one of them belongs to someone on here though. Come on, who's waiting for one?
Halfords pre COVID called can they have their bike back 😔 I was talking to the blokes at Curtis bikes about this last year . As they said they stopped developing one because they would look like this and that was even before Cy had got a finished article 😔
It’s not for me, but I can see why they’ve done it. End of the day it’s not like they’re having to order x amount of thousand frames from Taiwan months in advance to suit the expected number of orders, they’re making them in house from stock steel tubes so if they don’t get much demand there’s nothing lost. The motors and batteries could probably be sold off to any number of other assemblers given the demand for that type of generic motor and battery with uber eats riders and stuff.
I’ve already got an ebike so won’t be buying (or affording one) and I thought the Cotic was ugly as sin. But it’s been growing on me every time I see it.
On a different note, what happened to the Ethic e-bikes that Bird were developing? Did they get put on hold or stopped development?
Saw on another thread that Bird pulled the plug on the E-Bike.
I couldn't get on with that Cotic. I don't mind ugly bikes, or at least bikes that others think are ugly but the Cotic just looks like a budget model and for that price that's not good IMO.
I really couldn't give a toss what it looks like. I'm either riding it in which case it looks exactly the same as every other bike as all you see is the bars and front tyre, or it's in the garage where no one can see it.
If I had the money and wanted an ebike I'd buy one as Cy knows what he's doing and the support will be fantastic.
I really couldn't give a toss what it looks like. I'm either riding it in which case it looks exactly the same as every other bike as all you see is the bars and front tyre, or it's in the garage where no one can see it.
If I had the money and wanted an ebike I'd buy one as Cy knows what he's doing and the support will be fantastic.
I totally get why it looks the way it does, and don't mind it, if I could afford an e-bike I'd try going that way.
#iamacoticfanboi
There’s a good Downtime podcast with Cy covering the e-bike. Personally the looks are not for me, but how it ended up that way makes a lot of sense when he explains the development process.
I thought they looked absolutely mint in their showroom. The paint job was absolutely fantastic
I had a wee go on an e-bike this weekend.
Didn't really feel like a bike to me, more like a Motor bike. Good, but not for me (yet)
When I first saw it I thought it was awful, but just took another look and it's not really that bad after all. I mean, pretty much all full fat ebikes are ugly AF anyway so the Cotic isn't really the exception here, and at least it's a nice steel frame as a base rather than a big hunk of carbon. If the battery wasn't that cheapy plain black plastic and had a nicer finish (matching all the nice Cotic colour options maybe) it'd probably fit in better but I guess that can't be done for reasons.
Bumped into cy on win hill and he was on't eeb.
It looked decent in the flesh
I'll admit though, it's a hard sell. I'm not sure cotic's demographic/USP is really that well aligned with eebs in the first place.....long term it's a bit worrying I would have thought. with the level of ebike uptake being pretty strong based on recent experience at Ard Moors where about 70% on practice day we're on eebs.
Saw on another thread that Bird pulled the plug on the E-Bike.
IIRC they said Shimano were the only supplier willing to deal with their numbers, but they had way too high a failure rate on them in testing.
Got to respect them for the transparency.
Wasn't me that ordered a Cotic eeb BTW
Ard Moors where about 70% on practice day we're on eebs.
Taking this thread off on a tangent, but this annoys me a bit - the idea that if you want to be competitive at amateur enduro you need (as well as the expensive enduro bike) an expensive e-enduro bike for practice, and presumably an expensive van to keep the bike you aren't riding in.
Ard Moors where about 70% on practice day we're on eebs.
Taking this thread off on a tangent, but this annoys me a bit - the idea that if you want to be competitive at amateur enduro you need (as well as the expensive enduro bike) an expensive e-enduro bike for practice, and presumably an expensive van to keep the bike you aren't riding in.
MTB is the new golf innit!
I really couldn't give a toss what it looks like. I'm either riding it in which case it looks exactly the same as every other bike as all you see is the bars and front tyre, or it's in the garage where no one can see it.
Good for you but if I'm paying upwards of £5000 for any bike I also want to like the look of it and enjoy owning it.
Not looked at one for ages so just had a look at their site and its even uglier than I remember. I'm all for function > form but theres a million other ebikes out there which are more visually pleasing and will work just as well/better for less money.
It does feel a bit like mtb is the new golf and most people don't seem to worry about dropping probably £5k+ on an ebike that they'll ditch after a few years. I like the idea of the Cotic as it seems like an ebike that could last for many years which I don't feel is the case for the average eeb.
I think it looks great, I was never a massive fan of the linkage on Cotic full sus bikes but this vertical shock looks great and i think of the battery as no different to a water bottle attached to any other bike.
Funnily enough, was thinking about this yesterday, if they've sold many... but all ebikes are pretty ugly things aren't they? (Except maybe that new Commencal with it's sexy noir-ish photoshoot)
I've got a Moterra SL and it still has a great fat downtube, does that look any better than a separate battery lump on top..? As borielbrus says, when you're riding it doesn't really matter what they look like. I'm definitely not in the market for a new eMTB for a good few years anyway.
I haven’t ordered one, but if I was in the market for an ebike, it’d be pretty high up the list. It looks loooads better in the flesh.
I think it's more to do with what we're used to than real, objective ugliness.
If the whole industry had gone for regular downtubes and external batteries, rather than gigantic downtubes and internal batteries, the Cotic would blend right in.
It's taken years for regular e-bikes to become less offensive to the eyes.
I've just bought a Specialized Turbo Levo SL as full fat ebikes don't feel like cycling and it looks pretty good - the downtube isn't too fat.
But I have a CYC Photon kit on my Turner (was on the Sultan, now on the Flux) and it looks like that, although the motor hangs down a little more.
but all ebikes are pretty ugly things aren't they?
Met a lad on a Santa Cruz eeb, definitely the SL type, but I honestly couldn't tell it was one.
There are a few full fat eebs that look OK-ish too, Mondrakers and the Orbea Wild spring to mind.
It'd be interesting to ride a conventional full fat eeb B2B with the Cotic and see if the frame compliance claims hold up at all. That could be their real USP.
its actually a thing? I assumed it was an april fools...
I kind of like the aesthetics, it's like some sort of Richard Rodgers building with the guts unashamedly on display on the outside. I get that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like the versatile modular battery concept and I like steel-tubed frames. I find generic modern aluminium and carbon frames kind of spectacularly mundane.
None of which matters much as I'm not in the market for an e-mtb anyway. But aesthetics are subjective no? I couldn't buy an Orange for example, no matter how nicely it rode, because I find them pig ugly, but equally I get that other people think they're beautiful.
its a bike with something that looks like a big water bottle on. The average ebiker is more interested on how far it is until the next pie stop, surely?
yes it still has a great fat downtube, does that look any better than a separate battery lump on top..? As borielbrus says, when you're riding it doesn't really matter what they look like.
Yes, it looks significantly better than a black ‘tumour’ on top of it.
It looks like a crappy old Voodoo ebike from 2018 😆
yes it still has a great fat downtube, does that look any better than a separate battery lump on top..? As borielbrus says, when you're riding it doesn't really matter what they look like.Yes, it looks significantly better than a black ‘tumour’ on top of it.
It looks like a crappy old Voodoo ebike from 2018 😆
It's not just the battery either, it's the exposed wires and pressed tin looking shock mounts. Not keen on the new branding but do like the two tone paint. Anyway, it's all been said before and I'm not buying one.
If I was buying an eBike, which I don't intend to just yet, I'd consider the Cotic because I really rate their bikes and philosophy. I'd take form over function because in my head (whether true or not) I don't see most other ebikes being as truly and fully maintainable long term. Didn't someone design a frame bag which covers the battery ? I like the practicality of that idea if the looks really were bothersome.
Met a lad on a Santa Cruz eeb, definitely the SL type, but I honestly couldn't tell it was one.
Isn’t that because all Santa Cruz (and a lot of other bikes) now have massive down tubes and look a bit like e-bikes.
I can’t help but think that relying on a Shimano system seems to now be a bad call. Bosch and Avinox seem to be running away in the motor stakes.
Isn’t that because all Santa Cruz (and a lot of other bikes) now have massive down tubes and look a bit like e-bikes.
That's exactly what we were saying 😀
I was on my new carbon enduro sled that had a similar chonky downtube
I can’t help but think that relying on a Shimano system seems to now be a bad call. Bosch and Avinox seem to be running away in the motor stakes.
That said, now Avinox are going to be more widely available, who the hell is going to buy an Amflow which apparently its a relatively average frame wrapped around a mental motor. Now that motor is going to be finding its way into established brand's bikes, Amflow I reckon could disappear overnight.
Isn’t that because all Santa Cruz (and a lot of other bikes) now have massive down tubes and look a bit like e-bikes.
Very much so. I think a few companies are making their e and non e options look similar. If the mountain won't come to you etc etc.
Hilariously a few months ago my anti ebike mate took loads of abuse off some kids for being on an ebike (cheater etc) whilst riding his forbidden druid. Whilst i remained unscathed on my orbea wild. He hates me for that.
I can’t help but think that relying on a Shimano system seems to now be a bad call. Bosch and Avinox seem to be running away in the motor stakes.
That said, now Avinox are going to be more widely available, who the hell is going to buy an Amflow which apparently its a relatively average frame wrapped around a mental motor. Now that motor is going to be finding its way into established brand's bikes, Amflow I reckon could disappear overnight.
Wasn't there some talk that this was their plan? Defo saw it said that it's unlikely we'll see an Amflow mk2 as it was just a way of getting the motor and battery noticed and in other bikes.
Nothing wrong with the Shimano! Look at all those Orbeas out there - even my non-MTBer brother has one!
I actually have an old Vitus e-bike with the humpback battery which after 6 years is still going strong (only one new motor!). It is ugly but as people have said you don’t see it when riding it. I also have a Cotic so perhaps the answer is for me to combine the two and have an ugly Cotic. I have actually thought about a motor transplant but even the rolling chassis seems to cost more than a normal Cotic
I love Cotic, I've owned most of their bikes over the years I think, still got a "first 100" og Soul, my Hemlock frame's hung up in the shed because no bike's ever going to do more for me or be more important for me than it was. But I could not own that ebike, sorry. I get the logic, I believe every word Cy says about it making a better bike, it just doens't come close to balancing out the looks.
It must be a nightmare for small/small mid sized brands though. Ebikes are obviously such a key market and basically a goldmine IF you can tap it but they can equally be the worst financial disaster you can possibly have, when you plough 2 years into development with a motor platform and it becomes "obsolete" or the internet decides it sucks or it turns out that it actually does suck despite promise. Like, everyone's hyped about dj1 but in 2 years every forum could be full of how they don't last.
who the hell is going to buy an Amflow which apparently its a relatively average frame wrapped around a mental motor. Now that motor is going to be finding its way into established brand's bikes, Amflow I reckon could disappear overnight.
Avinox was created as DJ1's development/launch brand, to get around the problem of getting industry buy-in on a completely new product from a brand with no bike history. They're "independent" but not really, they only exist for one reason. It could have a future if it actually makes money but for them it's served their purpose already. TBH "this is a brilliant motor in an average bike, we can't wait to see it in a good bike" isn't a great look for Amflow but it might have been the absolute best review outcome for DJ1, it doesn't just boost the motor, it boosts hype for other brands considering using it. The best result was a bike just good enough to not kneecap the motor.
Amflow which apparently its a relatively average frame
Don't tell the Amflow owners, they've all convinced themselves that it's the best bike ever made and that any talk of average frames has been all but dispelled....
Before
After 5 second with Google Pixel magic eraser
That's a nice looking bike!
I can’t help but think that relying on a Shimano system seems to now be a bad call. Bosch and Avinox seem to be running away in the motor stakes.
With the small scale production and the need for an external standalone battery/full power motor your options are probably limited to Shimano.
I haven’t ordered one but I like it. I’m hoping my Levo keeps going strong (7th anniversary is approaching) but when it does expire I can see myself getting a Cotic ebike.
I like the looks, and I like the ride feel they’re claiming to get, and it doesn’t have stupid internal routing around the motor etc!
Geometry looks sorted (but it is on most decent bikes now) and their suspension design makes sense to me (I prefer the high anti-rise vs a typical Horst link).
Maybe I’m an ebike Luddite but I don’t get the race for more power, my old Levo charges uphill plenty fast enough to be quite challenging as soon as things are twisty or technical.
I like this. It's the battery casing that looks off to most of us I think and that's something that can be changed, the real benefit of a bike with non-prorietary parts.
It'll be interesting to hear what the Scottish-made Intradrive motor is like when fitted to one of these, it uses Shimano motor bolt pattern and there are other batteries that will fit.
Before
After 5 second with Google Pixel magic eraser
That's a nice looking bike!
Now add a large black water bottle to the ‘shopped version.
THe looks are massively troubling to me, but the price tag even in the 'trail gold' of £9000 just instantly puts it as a NO for me. With the higher spec platinum being over £11,000 that's just in the realms of utterly bonkers. We can take about made in the UK or talk about the higher price of the frame materials, but it's still £11,000.
It’s not for me;
- Shimano motor
- Price
- I had a Trek Powerfly that looked like that back in 2018 and I had to pretend it didn’t bother me even though external batteries were the norm.
- Shitmano motor.
- Price
We can take about made in the UK or talk about the higher price of the frame materials, but it's still £11,000.
When a grand less gets you this with the new Bosch Performance CX motor, it seems even more bonkers
I can’t help but think that relying on a Shimano system seems to now be a bad call. Bosch and Avinox seem to be running away in the motor stakes.
With the small scale production and the need for an external standalone battery/full power motor your options are probably limited to Shimano.
Are they smaller scale than Orange these days? I have no idea but they managed to start with Shimano, move on to Bosch and are about to release an Avinox powered bike all within 3 years or so. I get that Orange build frames in house but wasn't one of the reasons given by Cotic for UK production that it meant they could change frame details quickly?
I hadn't meant to comment on this thread again but while sat in traffic yesterday an old lad on some shopper type bike ambled past with a similar looking battery. It might make me vain but that alone would put me off the Cotic as it currently stands.
Of the current crop, it very much looks like the DJI Avinox motor is the one that would attract a small frame builder. For a start, they are allowing frame builders to sell 'frame only', unlike the Shimano Etc.
Bloke that bangs on about ease of maintenance puts in the worst motor for maintenance. Pass
I can’t help but think that relying on a Shimano system seems to now be a bad call. Bosch and Avinox seem to be running away in the motor stakes.
With the small scale production and the need for an external standalone battery/full power motor your options are probably limited to Shimano.
Are they smaller scale than Orange these days? I have no idea but they managed to start with Shimano, move on to Bosch and are about to release an Avinox powered bike all within 3 years or so. I get that Orange build frames in house but wasn't one of the reasons given by Cotic for UK production that it meant they could change frame details quickly?
I hadn't meant to comment on this thread again but while sat in traffic yesterday an old lad on some shopper type bike ambled past with a similar looking battery. It might make me vain but that alone would put me off the Cotic as it currently stands.
I probably should have emphasised the external battery bit. All of the 'better' options that Orange use are internal systems. Does anyone apart from Shimano make a full power motor that uses an external battery, would getting one made by/for Cotic be feasible?
Not sure what the MOQ is for Mahle but their M40 mid drive is brilliant and may be an option for lower volume builders.
It must be a nightmare for small/small mid sized brands though.
It is. The conspiracist might suggest that making carbon and motors into must-haves is the big brand's way of squeezing out the small brands. As I've said on repeat, MTB is becoming a powered sport and that makes it difficult for low volume brands, plus the fashion aspect that biases everything toward a certain look.
Yeah DJI seem to be going with brands nobody has ever heard of, as well as Orange. They must be prepared to work with small volumes.
It's the battery casing that looks off to most of us I think and that's something that can be changed
So you're saying put a box around it? Maybe saying "Pies in transit"?
So you're saying put a box around it? Maybe saying "Pies in transit"?
Sold. 🙂
There's other batteries that fit the Shimano pattern but to offer as OEM options you're into more testing so it gets expensive. Buying AM isn't likely for most owners either. But it's an option for a brand to work with, maybe.
Once I've strapped a frame bag, a water bottle, a pump, a saddle bag, a big mudguard etc to it, does the battery really matter.
I get the comparisons to early ebikes but they mostly had an external battery attempting to look integrated so it was an awkward halfway house. Although this looks a bit more takeaway delivery driver, the battery is clearly attached to a very nice and well proportioned bike.
The price argument I totally get, it would need to be significantly lower for me to consider it but I do like the frame only option
I like this. It's the battery casing that looks off to most of us I think and that's something that can be changed, the real benefit of a bike with non-prorietary parts.
It'll be interesting to hear what the Scottish-made Intradrive motor is like when fitted to one of these, it uses Shimano motor bolt pattern and there are other batteries that will fit.
Anyone else frustrated at the lack of info from Intradrive ? I know they are a startup so wont have a huge marketing budget but a few sentences every few weeks would be good. @jameso , do you have any industry insider knowledge ?
