[Closed] Who produces what brands?

This is the guy who makes all the frames for Sick Bikes.

I often read that Merida produce Specialized bikes

Some of...

This is a bit out of date but gives you an idea:
https://inrng.com/who-makes-what/

@hols2 You take the piss out of old Burt, associating him with them charlatans and this will be you in the village square! Member a good proportion of STW get their frames from him.

Giant are one of the biggest, if not the biggest bike manufacturers in the world, they make a lot of the Trek bikes

This is a bit out of date but gives you an idea:

That looks like more a list a who owns what brand. The actual making - what / who's factory thing are produced in - is a different question. Do some of those brands even own any production facilities?

I heard everything was all made in the same factory

Only Gregg Wallace knows

I'm pretty sure WTB make Nukeproof bits.

I could probably make a big list as I’ve been in a lot of the big factories and seen plenty of stock even from some of the “we make everything in-house in the UK” brands. But I’m not going to mainly for legal reasons.

It’s entertained me for years seeing fanboys rant on about their favourite brand completely and utterly incorrectly, I’m amazed how much marketing bollocks people lap up to justify their expensive purchase. If it doesn’t say on each item page it’s specifically made in the uk.... it isn’t! I’m happy to tell anyone about our stuff and it’s pretty clear on our site.

I would say 97.5% of UK bike brands don’t make it here. If it says designed in the uk it’s definitely not made here. 99.5% of bike brands don’t make it in-house and are just catalog/design operations.

When I see a marketing piece in a magazine with another knackered 1960s Bridgeport mill described as their uk machine shop, so lame.

Hey we make stuff in Lincoln for a lot of brands who aren’t superstar and I’ve seen plenty of our long term haters love this stuff as it matched their ego requirements. We used to supply titanium bolts in bonkers numbers to a couple of the big brands.

Anyway got more important things to do like make bits for fancy medical machines

Neil SuperstarComponents

Don't RST and Suntour make forks for other brands?

Just noticed RST have a 38mm stanchion fork, don't know if they're any good like!

It's lazy to say that just because 2 different brands are made in the same factory the quality is the same.

I would say 97.5% of UK bike brands don’t make it here

Personally, I'm entirely uninterested in where something's made

Personally, I’m entirely uninterested in where something’s made

This.

It’s lazy to say that just because 2 different brands are made in the same factory the quality is the same.

Has anybody...?

Beyond the obvious "catalogue" frames, even for your own bespoke designs, there are sliding scales of material quality and QC checks that can be added (or not) to the price of a finished product when ordering in bulk... I have heard from a trusted source, tales of Pinarello frames (genuine ones) and Planet X frames being made side by side on 2 different production lines, within the same factory. I'm not a Pinarello fan, but I'd still far rather pay 5x the price for one than I would a Planet X carbon frame, as I know what the finished results are!

I heard everything was all made in the same factory

Not true, but there are far fewer factories making bicycle frames than there are bicycle brands, that's for sure.

Don’t RST and Suntour make forks for other brands?

Just noticed RST have a 38mm stanchion fork, don’t know if they’re any good like!

Yes they do... They make for pretty much everyone else to be fair between them iirc. They also make some pretty good forks of their own, it's just hard for them to sell them when people in wealthier markets expect to see a brand name written on the side.

However... Just because some of the features from the more expensive forks are utlisied on some of the cheaper ones, don't assume the same level of R&D goes into those products. Fox/Rockshox et al may not make stuff themselves, but they do employ busy R&D departments making and testing prototypes before they're sent for manufacture in he far east.

Hey we make stuff in Lincoln for a lot of brands who aren’t superstar and I’ve seen plenty of our long term haters love this stuff as it matched their ego requirements.

I'm glad mostly making your own stuff is working out better for you than importing wholesale from the far east did. I guess whilst more expensive to do, it's arguably much easier to keep an eye on the Quality Control side of things.

I’m pretty sure WTB make Nukeproof bits.

That would be impossible as WTB just use suppliers and don’t manufacture themselves.

There are certainly instances where I have bought rims from factories that (I have been told) WTB also buy though.

Giant own their own factory. They make all the high end carbon frames in house.

Ignoring carbon lay-up and type. A brand who sells a frame for £4k and brand b who sells for £2k the difference in price normally comes down qc and warranty. The expensive frame will be checked at more points in production and checked after completion. The rejected pile for the £4k frame would be bigger than the cheaper frame. Outliers occur obviously watch hambini on youtube for proof of shit tollerances on expensive frames.

But

 I’m not a Pinarello fan, but I’d still far rather pay 5x the price for one than I would a Planet X carbon frame, as I know what the finished results are!

Really, are they really that bad? Genuinely interested as I have a PX Pro Carbon EVO, and whilst I have nothing to compare it to it seems pretty good to me. Finish is lovely.

Surely they would not be allowed to sell them if they were a failure waiting to happen. Lots of people slag PX off but never actually state facts. I'd love to hear why my frame is so bad in comparison to one that costs 5x the price??

Everyone loves Bird but they have said they can make carbon frames for a similar price to aluminium, is everyone gonna start slagging them off as well...

Is it easier to ignore anything the m*r*n from superstar says? Massively ironic in that he makes stuff for these people.

"Personally, I’m entirely uninterested in where something’s made"

I joined the forum several months ago to kind of ask this questionn never got around to it , would it matter where something is made ? From feedback on the internet in other places it seems no one actually cares if its made in the UK.

It’s entertained me for years seeing fanboys rant on about their favourite brand completely and utterly incorrectly,

Sure, for some-one who has inside knowledge of perhaps the deals that go on in the background about who makes what, it's probably a bit of giggle, for folks who aren't privvy to that info, they HAVE to rely on reputation, press releases, etc etc. If they've made decision based on the info that's available to them in the public domain, and not actively hidden from view, then fair enough, no? Otherwise you sound a bit, yknow...

I’m amazed how much marketing bollocks people lap up to justify their expensive purchase

People justify their purchases all the time, and for a vast amount of reasons all the way from "I don't care it just has to work and be cheap" right up to "I want the most chi chi branded thing ever as small luxuries make me smile" As some-one who runs a  business that relies on discretionary spending should know...I'll note to myself not to fall for any of your own marketing bollocks from now on..

“Personally, I’m entirely uninterested in where something’s made”

They're turning kids into slaves just to make cheaper sneakers
But what's the real cost?
Cause the sneakers don't seem that much cheaper
Why are we still paying so much for sneakers
When you got them made by little slave kids
What are your overheads?

it seems no one actually cares if its made in the UK

Why would they? If you're buy based on where it's manufactured, you're saying it's ok for UK manufacturers to produce inferior products.

Also, what counts as "made in the UK"? I think you'd find it's impossible to make pretty much any complex product now without sourcing things from around the world. How much of it has to be made in the UK to count?

Giant own their own factory. They make all the high end carbon frames in house.

Giant own their own factories... They make all their own bicycles full stop, and they also make for a huge number of other brands too, not least Trek, Scott, KTM, Colnago and many many others...

Really, are they really that bad? Genuinely interested as I have a PX Pro Carbon EVO, and whilst I have nothing to compare it to it seems pretty good to me. Finish is lovely.

Surely they would not be allowed to sell them if they were a failure waiting to happen. Lots of people slag PX off but never actually state facts. I’d love to hear why my frame is so bad in comparison to one that costs 5x the price??

I didn't say it was an accident waiting to happen, but the quality of materials, level of QC, and everything you can't see rather than the bits you can, are all far more important to me than to you I guess. And like you say, you've nothing to compare it to. Ride a nice carbon bike and compare. Sure, you'll spend a lot more money for perceivably minimal returns, but everyone who defends their PX purchases with the same vigour you do always has the caveat emptor of not having anything else to compare it to! 🤷🏻‍♂️

You can buy the cheapest, strongest booze in the shop, just to get you pissed as quickly as possible as cheaply as possible, or you can buy a nice bottle of red and enjoy it and savour it. Depends what your goals are I guess! I am not interested in bang for buck...

Everyone loves Bird but they have said they can make carbon frames for a similar price to aluminium, is everyone gonna start slagging them off as well…

I imagine they can. The more complex an aluminium frame gets, deviating from the normal "4 main tubes and a rear triangle" basic hardtail, the closer the relative gaps will come in manufacturing costs. And the more you make of them... Carbon always has a mould cost to recover (unless you're lugging and mitring tubes like Colnago on a C64), so it has a fixed cost whether you make 1 or 1000... The more you make, the cheaper it gets. And you can make any intricate shape you want too, relatively easily. There have been big strides made in the development of aluminium frames over the last 3 decades, but there has been much bigger strides made in the manufacture of carbon at the same time.

Also, what counts as “made in the UK”? I think you’d find it’s impossible to make pretty much any complex product now without sourcing things from around the world. How much of it has to be made in the UK to count?

I've previously seen people attempt to qualify a bike made from a load of hand picked components, all sourced from other countries, but assembled in the UK as "Made in the UK"... 😂 The mind boggles!

I'd argue that you've got to actually do something to turn something from a raw material into something else to pull the "made in the UK" card... Hope are an obvious example.

On the "made in the same factory" (typically in Taiwan). Those are big factories, maybe same owner but maybe multiple sites. They do work for a lot of companies, small and large and do it to the spec and process given. The teams involved may not be the same but even if they are the quality is based on the design, spec and money involved.

I'm not in the bike industry but from an IT point of view when dealing with these places you have to be very precise in what you order.

What they're good at though is scaling up.

I prefer stuff made in the Far East, it tends to be better built and more reliable - important when you have a trail side mechanical and no tools and need to use a stick or a rock or something to adjust or install a component.

Santa Cruz opened their own factory after seeing some of their carbon manufacturing developments appearing on other brands that were being made by a shared production partner: https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Santa-Cruz-Bicycles-Senior-Composites-Engineer-The-Inside-Line,2870

you’ll spend a lot more money for perceivably minimal returns

Which I just don't see as value. I don't think i'd notice enough of a difference to be able to justify the name tax.

Fox/Rockshox et al may not make stuff themselves, but they do employ busy R&D departments making and testing prototypes before they’re sent for manufacture in he far east.

Wouldn't surprise me if the castings were manufactured at one place and the dampers and damper assembly is done elsewhere in order to retain a competitive advantage and prevent IP being ripped off before a product is even released.

Although I can also be quite pragmatic when it comes to bicycles, I want to defend brand names on the basis that the name/look/r&d together can all mean something. I have nothing whatsoever against stuff from Planet X (or Ribble or Estrella or wherever), but I have also been riding seriously since I was a young teenager, and am quite happy to save up/pay the penalty for wanting something by a brand with heritage and that appeals to me personally. I may be a 'sucker' for names, but if so, I am a willing, knowing 'sucker'.

Nothing wrong with buying a fancy bike if you can afford it. I can't necessarily afford 5k for a road bike, well I could but I'd have to forgo other things that I don't want to, so I bought a PX. I'm justifying buying a cheap bike by saying fancy ones are no better.

I just wish people wouldn't justify wanting a fancy bike by knocking the cheaper ones if there really isn't any specific reason to knock them.

The bit that would be really helpful, marketing nonsense aside, especially for components would be a bit of an asterisk next to it in a review or online, and a "this is also sold as ... by ..." to make finding spares easier. The old Kona Wahwah/Nukeproof/early Superstar pedals for example, all seemed to be coming from the same factory, and easier to get replacement axles and bearing kits for some than others. Ditto the thousands of own-branded hubs on OEM wheelsets.
Why not just quietly list the fact that its actually a Novatec and what bearings it needs, because it won't be anywhere on the manufacturers website in 18 months time, when I pull the shattered remnants of greasy sludge out and start trying to devine the code.

I care where stuff is made.

God, Superstar's stuff was bad enough when it was Chinese catalogue stuff but I can't imagine how horrendous a Friday afternoon Midlands machine job would be.

I don't think the slagging off of Superstar is at all warranted, btw. STW forum majority cementing their reputation as a bunch of ****s again.

Anyway. UK made stuff is not necessarily better quality than stuff made anywhere else, but the point is that if you buy UK made stuff you are keeping more money in the UK. Superstar are paying UK employees and UK taxes, and those employees will end up directly or indirectly giving money to the business you work for; and Superstar's taxes and those employee's taxes end up being spent back on you as a UK resident.

If you are one of those people that whine about the decline of UK manufacturing, here's something you can do about it. Buy Orange, buy Hope, buy Superstar and so on.

We make stainless single speed cogs and chainrings 😎

the point is that if you buy UK made stuff you are keeping more money in the UK

Rather than buying a more expensive/lower quality product so that a fraction more of your money will stay in the UK, why not buy whatever is best and donate a tiny bit to a charity. Most of the price of an imported product will go towards tax, wages for local workers, profit for the local distributor, distribution costs, etc. A fair proportion of a "local" product will actually go to overseas suppliers, so the difference will be much smaller than most people realize.

Maxxis is just a brand of Cheng Shin Tire company China, or CST, them tyres that come on the cheapest of cheap bikes linky

Maxxis is just a brand of Cheng Shin Tire company China, or CST, them tyres that come on the cheapest of cheap bikes linky

I think a sizable number of people may take exception to being called Chinese there. But yes, I always assumed Maxxis were American, I assume there are only a few major factories that produce for other brands, IIRC On-One Chunky Monkeys and the other one at that time were produced by Maxxis.

I have little problem with outsourcing production, whether its Fiveland building for Cotic or Pipedream sending specs to a Taiwanese factory. It makes good financial sense and even with the best will in the world not everyone has the skill, finance or resources to build their own stuff.

The only thing that matters in the end is the finished product and the afyer sales support, at a certain price point you can forgive blemishes and facing issues, pay a bit more and you expect this not to happen. Higher QC costs time and money then the factory has to price in rework and wastage.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the castings were manufactured at one place and the dampers and damper assembly is done elsewhere in order to retain a competitive advantage and prevent IP being ripped off before a product is even released.

From gadget related work I saw a lot of secret R&D to get a product out to manufacture before anyone knows about it but the big problem was certifications process. Required sending samples, designs etc to external companies and before it's on the market a cheap Chinese knock off is out there. Sometimes the technical quality was actually better than the original.