[Closed] Whistler Bike Park v anything else in Europe?

Well I've never ridden whistler but I've ridden Les Gets in the last 5 years and wouldn't bother going back. I suspect Whistler may be slightly better 🙂

Because the trails are crap? Or you just need a change of scenery?

Trails seem to me to not be the best, all braking bumps, stayed in Morzine, the town is dead in Summer, the trails on the Swiss side tend to be even less well maintained. Most would probably recommend Finale Ligure, Northern Italy, been twice, great trails with a lot of variety, reasonably well maintained and a very natural feel (not park type if that's what you're looking for). Also the town has a nice vibe, lots of good bars and restaurants and because it's a seaside town rather than a ski town it's busy in the summer (though probably still currently a northern Italy Covid-19 ghost town). Uplift is all by Van though, not an issue and prob cheaper than a Whistler lift pass. Van uplift is run by various companies who generally operate from bike shops and charge about €50 per day.

btw, have skied in Les Gets\Morzine\Avoriaz multiple times and they're great Winter destination.

Haha, I last rode Whistler Bike Park about 18 months ago and I had one warm up lap on the Fitzsimmons lift and then one full lap from Garbanzo before my shock blew up from the braking bumps!

(I'm not specifically looking for recommendations. I now live in Vancouver and I think that locals think that WBP is nirvana and nowhere else in the world compares. I suspect they haven't even considered European resorts. Certainly Whistler is not short of hype or marketing!)

Excluding unofficial trails -

Whistler day ticket:
£47
80km of official trails

Portes du soleil day ticket:
£27
650km of official trails

I've ridden a decent amount in the euro parks. I've never ridden at Whistler, but I have skiied there.

I think the main problem with the European alpine bike parks are that they've gone for quantity over quality. 650km of riding in the pds according to their website. But dig a little deeper and you'll find loads of that is forest roads, or long featureless descents on single-track that's had no work on it in ages. Don't get me wrong, there's amazing riding - but lots of it is underwhelming.

Whistler bike park on the other hand looks like it gets actual features, good progression of lines/difficulty, and a solid maintenance crew. I would be willing to bet that the trails in Whistler are a step above. You gotta pay the scene tax in whistler though, and the village is an absolute zoo!

BTW:there'll be 12% tax to add to the WBP.

Here's the thing that bugs me though. On a $ per kilometre of trail basis, WBP flow trails should be buttery smooth as they should be able to pay a trail crew to look after them (and they have less lifties to pay) I wouldn't expect the same at PdS but, frankly, some of Whistlers trails are appalling. I don't think they can keep up, maintenance-wise.

Here's something that you'd never get in Canada.

For 3 years straight Tignes bike park was free. Free parking, free lifts, free (clean) showers, free airbag jump, 150km of trails.

It's no longer free. It's £35 a week, or you get a free summer pass when you book a single nights stay in the valley.

Not the best riding in the world, but enough for a couple of fun days, and some amazing scenery.

Compared to pds, whistler has better built trails and far less braking bumps. Europe has more trails, but we go back to whistler every time

I’ve been to morzine 4 times and whistler twice.

There were less braking bumps in whistler than the alps.

There was plenty of trails to keep me busy in both places.

In the alps different trails means a different valley, so there was more variety. Morgins feels different to Chatel.

I went to whistler last summer and did a couple of days on trails outside the bike park. They were awesome! I did feel a bit odd about forking out for a lift pass and not using it for some days, in hindsight it was a great mix.

A shopping bag of food was 4x the price of the uk. I thought self catering would save money, I wasn’t so sure after shopping!

First time I went to whistler was the tail end of the season, I arrived as the top of the world trail closed. The weather felt much like a British drizzley autumn, but the trails were pretty empty and there was very little time in the lift que. last summer I went after crankworks. The weather was better and there was a bit more time in the lift que. That was easy to manage by riding the creek side lift when it was busy.

If my bank account could hack it, I’d be in whistler every summer. Unfortunately, it can’t

Think it was 115 euros for a weeks lift pass last year in Morzine, thought the bike parks were okay, but the natural stuff was amazing. Never been to whistler so can’t comment, a mate who loves in Vancouver seems to rave about it though.

The PdS offers pretty decent value money. Quite reasonable for day (even compared to UK centres with way less) and great value for a week or season. TBH I don't mind that they don't spend much on the trails. That said they are always working on something and the area is huge. I'm happy they do what they do and keep the costs down, and when I go to the mountains I don't mind that it is a bit bumpy.

WBP to me is the ‘gold standard’ for that bike park style of riding. The trails are well thought out, flow well & there is obvious easy progression.

Most stuff in the PDS official is a varying degree of poor building by comparison, apart from a few gems.

For outright DH tracks, the PDS is a fairer comparison and it makes up ground with the sheer number of off piste options, with lift access.

Where Whistler and surrounding areas excel is out of the park. The valley, Pemberton & Squamish are pure gold - but, no lifts which limits traffic and the trails are prime as a result.

They both have their pros and cons. You can do a week in the Alps for less than a flight to Vancouver. The Alps are dead in the summer, even hotspots like Chamonix compared to Whistler, which is good and bad. This is one of the biggest negatives for me, over the years it’s become more and more commercialised & with Vail involved it’s only become even more noticeable. The ‘Whistler Bubble’ has always been there, it’s just an even more stark difference.

You lot should look a little further afield. Come to my local park. Opens in 48 hrs!

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I have only been to Whistler once, 2 years ago, and Saalbach Hinterglem once, 3 years ago. Saalbach was still fairly busy, even in summer.
Whister was definitely better designed/maintained trails. The other difference is due to the North American vs European ski resort design: one base and defined ski area, vs many different bases and lifts, with only the piste’s defined. So in Whistler you have tons of trails off the same lift, and you can choose a new one every time. In Saalbach/Leogang trails are spread out over several long valleys. So have have to commit, and “travel” more to get different trails.

This is not a pure pro or con, just different. Both have their advantages.

I think if you factor in that difference in geographic layout, and then combine it with a French attitude to Mountain sports, you are bound to get something very different in France than in Canada.
The Austrian ones will be a bit different again.

Still, excluding the blip due to Corona, bikepark use has been steadily rising, and purpose built bike trail construction has been exploding throughout the world.
I think when you add those two things together, I expect bikeparks all around the world to get better, adding/modifying more, better built bike trails, because the knowledge to build them is there, and the customer’s expectations are getting higher and higher.

As to the people mentioning braking bumps, remember that is very dependent on soil type, weather, time of year and recent use, so can vary a lot, even on the same trail.

As a Whistler (semi) local, the only way I could justify the prices would be to get an evening pass.....which I was going to do this year but looks like there are no evenings. Closing at 5pm all year. I haven't used it yet (and the shuttle road up to 19th Hole is currently closed) but one could buy a lot of Shred Shuttle passes in Squamish for $830.

🤬 that's mega dollar to go ride!!

tempted for change of proper scenery but surely if going there you would expect it to be rough as f conditions wise

it's a hard core mountain lol

Both are epic.

Whistler has better atmosphere in resort, much easier to navigate, better cut, longer, manicured trails. Went in expecting nothing after reading general comments here and was blown away. If you want atmosphere and party stay in town, if you want to relax stay in Pemberton and take in local trails / travel in for the park.

That said PDS inc Morz and LG are also awesome. Takes a little longer to find your fave trails. Some are epic but there is a lot of quantity vs quality. If you have time or a guide you can get just as much good riding in here.

Value wise if you go on ppds, get good weather and ignore the official route you can’t beat it. Whistler was easy 5x the price in comparison over ppds weekend. Any other weekend maybe 2x and I believe well worth it.

Basically - Disney World vs Euro Disney.

Breaking bumps - go opening weekend or get more travel.

Enjoy

Trails seem to me to not be the best, all braking bumps, stayed in Morzine, the town is dead in Summer

Braking bumps, yeah the main routes (so busy they known as the Motorway trails) get hammered, and with Alpine weather being what it is, it's hard to keep up the maintenance.

Off the main runs they've always been pretty good in the last couple of years, certainly it's night and day from the first time I went in '07 when it was very rough, and a lot lot tougher.

Morzine is pretty bustling when I go, I was set to go twice this year, I should actually be there now for Passportes and again in August with my family. It's a slightly different vibe in/out of the school hols, but 'Dead' it ain't... ever.

As for WBP v PDS Europe.

For anyone in Europe it's going to cost a LOT more to go to Whistler. Even a cheap flight is going to be in the £700 range, lift prices are double, the bars and restaurants expensive. I'm sure there's a way to do it on a budget, but my week in Whistler and 2 days sight seeing in Van cost £3k all told.

Whistler itself is indeed like Disney Land, lots of large buildings with fibre glass facades to make them look kind of Alpine-ish. It's incredibly pretty and if you're lucky you'll see a Bear or two and other Native wildlife you won't see in Europe.

The Park is wonderful, it's massive for a Bike Park, the scale is several leagues above say BPW. The trails are really designed with 'Hero Riding' in mind, the blues especially are massively wide, mirror smooth and easy to read, it's not uncrashable by any stretch, in fact loads of people do, but the blues make you feel like you're in a MTB shreadit whilst within your comfort zone, but once you make the leap to Black runs the stakes get much higher.

What I didn't realise about Whistler before I went is, it's a Bike Park, a big Bike Park, but still 'only' a Bike Park, it's bigger since I went, but the whole thing was fed from a single lift with more higher up. If you want to ride outside of the park, you're be earning your altitude on the pedals.

In contrast...

PDS is cheap, if you share a car it'll cost you about £150 to get there, maybe less, you can get accommodation for peanuts if you want, but equally if you spend even a little as £200 each you can get your own place with secure bike storage, hot tub and all that.

The Bars and restaurants are generally good, they're not cheap, but they're not extortionate either. If you really want to do it on a budget there are Supermarkets.

Morzine is a Resort, in fact it part of a larger Group of resorts and a single lift ticket lets you travel between them and ride anything they have to offer. If Whistler is one big bike park PDS is 4/5 spread over a couple of towns with brilliant XC and DH trails that link them up. You're far less likely to suddenly realise you're riding that trail, from that video you've been watching for years.

Compared to Whistler the trails are rougher, tighter and steeper, you're going to be riding stuff that scares you more often. If it rain it will be muddy, if it's very dry it will loose. If a storm rolls in and you're in Chatel and staying in Morzine and they close the lifts you will let out a little cry at the idea of riding back.

If I had the chance I'd go back to Whistler in a heartbeat, but with kids that need annoying shit like food and shoes, I'd find it hard to spend a couple of grand on another trip to Whistler, but I don't feel short changed spending a couple of hundred on a trip to Morzine, in fact in many ways I prefer it.

I know this is about comparing prices but more to Whistler than just the bike park and Creekside, download Trailforks which is simple to follow and ride some amazing trails. Only downside is you have to earn your downs.

Only downside is you have to earn your downs.

In Whis for sure, but then you can mix it up as well. We used to do a morning on the pedals in the valley and then park in the afternoon, when it as open until 8, you could ride a silly amount.

Squamish you can always use the Shred Shuttle too, or use the locals FB pages to bribe drivers with beer.

I never found Canada more expensive when we were there than the Alps. There are plenty of cheaper places to eat, even in the village stroll. Food prices were mostly comparable, other than the odd thing which made you wince, but it's a resort town, I kind of expect that.

One advantage of Morzine is that some buddies stayed there in a year with very bad weather. Every morning they drove to Chamonix, went through the Mont Blanc tunnel, and rode in beautiful sunshine and dry trails in the Aosta valley.

Every morning they drove to Chamonix, went through the Mont Blanc tunnel,

Very expensive holiday then! That's about £50 a day isn't it?

You can just go to Surrey Hills for free. Many are convinced it's the British Whistler. Self entitlement, spade and a pimped up van required though.

I did Whistler about 3 years ago, I did PDS every year from 2004 to 2011, have ridden Leogang/Saalbach/Hinterglemm every year since.
The Austrian tracks are very well maintained, they seems to drain better and are hardened better than the PDS tracks.
There’s a good variety from A-line type jumps lines to rooty DH tracks. There isn’t the quantity like PDS but definitely enough for a week at least. Off piste is limited because of the 2m rule.
I had a week of sun on Whistler and from what I remember pretty much no braking bumps. It’s definitely a level above anywhere else I’ve ridden overall.

In my experience versus other bike parks, Whistler offers a much better mix of trials for everyone. If you like the big jump trails, then you have the trails such as a-line, but then you also have the easier technical blue trials and a whole host of decent black trails such as Missfire and No Joke which I seem to remember were highlights. Morzine is great but lacks variety vs Whistler, especially on technical trails, although it is a few years since I’ve been.

I was a bit worried there wouldn’t be enough at Whistler for a whole week but there is definitely enough variety to keep you busy. Even some of the green trails are good fun.

Morzine is great but lacks variety vs Whistler, especially on technical trails, although it is a few years since I’ve been.

Whistler obviously has massively more signed tech trails, but Le Pléney in Morzine offers an unreal amount of natural tech, just turn off any of the official trails at the first opportunity and hold on tight..

What's the deal with lift passes in Morzine?

Are they cheaper if you're staying there (we're renting a chalet).

Do you only need to pay for passes for bikes?

Great thread....

I have been to PDS probably six times now, over the last ten years or so. I thought it was great, then enthusiasm waned a bit so I ducked out when the group went, then I went with the family last year, staying in Morzine and had a great holiday which included a few days of rising with the kids.

Only a month or so prior to that I'd been to Solden Bike Republic (for a change) and was really impressed with how they have set it up, going for flow rather than gnar, which at my age and skillz, is what I am after. I much preferred Solden to PDS, riding them almost "back to back" and was due to go back 1st July but hey ho.

Cutting to the chase, I have tenuously promised my lad a trip to Whistler in 2022, when he finishes his GCSEs. If it is just a more expensive and larger version of PDS, I'm not sure I'd bother, but is sounds to be suitably different to keep the Whistler piggy bank being added to.

Every morning they drove to Chamonix, went through the Mont Blanc tunnel,

Very expensive holiday then! That’s about £50 a day isn’t it?

To be fair, that was a year when the rain in Les Gets was of biblical proportions, and it was bone dry in Pila. So it was either spend the extra or go totally insane. And I think there were 4 guys in a van, so the cost was shared.

just turn off any of the official trails at the first opportunity and hold on tight..

Problem is you don’t know what you’ll find. For better or worse, in Whistler you know exactly what you’ll find on a trail. Difficulty rating and style (tech or flow) all clearly marked and well sign posted. Very little chance of finding yourself completely out of your depth.
Patrols out there to ask for advice or patch you up.

As for pricing, a weekend day pass at BPW is £43. (Not slagging BPW just putting it in perspective.) Last time I went to Whistler I bought a Triple play card, which is 3 days with option to add more days at a reduced rate.

Also, if you go all the way to Whistler and never leave the bike park hen your missing out on loads. Valley trails are amazing, as is Squamish.

Must. Stop. Reading.

I’ve done two seasons in whistler and ridden a fair few bike parks in Europe. the closest in terms of quality of trails like whistler I’ve ridden is Evo in digne, south of France.
It has Manicured And maintained jumps, a red run with about 50 big steep tables plus huge black jumps.
It is only a truck uplift as opposed to a lift and quite a long way down through France, good to tie in with other stations down here. Not far from Montclar, les Orres, pra loup etc...

All I'll say is if anyone is planning a group trip to Whistler and they need an extra body, let me know!

I've had a couple of long stays in Whistler but it was before Airbnb completely took over the whole place and it was possible to find a bed in a shared house for a reasonable sum of money. I've wanted to go back for the last couple of years but I can't afford it on my own and sadly I don't have mates like that anymore.

What I like about Europe is you can do it on a shoestring budget. All you need is a vehicle and a tent. My girlfriend loves Morzine so we usually end up there for a week after trying somewhere new. It's good fun cruising around with the mrs. but berm after berm after berm on featureless trails gets a bit old. French jumps are crap. They're like trail centre 'lumps' with no pop so they're more effort than they're worth. You'll also drive hundreds of miles to find trails as good as the stuff that's just lying around all over the place in Whistler.

Sometimes you just need to hit a hundred perfectly crafted booters all in a row then throw yourself down a rooty cliff face.

I hope I get one more trip there while I'm still physically capable of enjoying it.

PDS is cheap, if you share a car it’ll cost you about £150 to get there, maybe less, you can get accommodation for peanuts if you want, but equally if you spend even a little as £200 each you can get your own place with secure bike storage, hot tub and all that.

not really comparing like-for-like there..

vancouver flights are £450 at the moment, plus, lets say £100 for bikes, and £50 for the shuttle to whistler. so yep, £450 more there

the rest of the costs are the same. Whistler has supermarkets, cheaper accomodation that's further out (especially if you're sharing) - in fact cheap lunchtime eating out is more available than france - $2 pizza anyone?

it is more expensive, but less than twice the price. We normally mix is up with heli-biking, a float plane, silverstar, sun peaks or coast, or some shuttling/pedalling on the north shore\squarmish. All epic. Due to kids I only get to do a bike trip every other year these days (due to time away), and each time its whistler. I recon you can do all-in for under £1500 if you're on a budget

What’s the deal with lift passes in Morzine?

Are they cheaper if you’re staying there (we’re renting a chalet).

Do you only need to pay for passes for bikes?

I don't think there's any discount on Bike Lift passes if you're staying there.

If you're staying in some hotels and Chalets you can qualify for a discounted 'Multipass' I can't say it without trying to Sound like I'm in 'the 5th Element'. This gives you free or discounted access to lots of non-bikey things, also free access to most of the lifts, but NOT if you have a bike.

They're bloody brilliant if you're going with your family for going to the pool etc. They set off the security barriers in the supermarkets, but if you say "Multipass" with your best/worst French accent they won't tackle you to the ground.

vancouver flights are £450 at the moment

REALLY!

That's a COVID thing Shirley? It's £160 in Airport tax alone. Cheapest I can find for August at the moment is £830.

I paid £700 to see on a shitty repurposed Thomas Cook flying cattle truck 8 years ago. Plus £75 for the bike.

Sometimes you just need to hit a hundred perfectly crafted booters all in a row then throw yourself down a rooty cliff face.

You should try Leogang, they are good at building big table lines
Here’s my lad and his mates

And some more rooty/DH

the rest of the costs are the same. Whistler has supermarkets, cheaper accomodation that’s further out (especially if you’re sharing) – in fact cheap lunchtime eating out is more available than france – $2 pizza anyone?

Last I checked the lift pass for a two week holiday in Whistler was more than 2x as expensive as the PDS, that's a not insignificant amount of money.

Haha, one thing that is striking about both those videos was the lack of crowds. Somewhat different from the typical A-Line experience...

Where the **** are the $2 pizzas in Whistler?

I missed them in January, I’d have scoffed then by the half dozen if I’d known.

I think he means $2 per slice...

The jumps in that Leogang vid still look like big flat eurolumps. Nothing like the scooped out senders in WBP. It's almost like they're scared of people actually getting off the ground.

I know there are more jump trails popping up in Europe but there's still nothing that compares to having Freight Train, Dirt Merchant, A-line and Crabapple Hits all on the same mountain. It's absolutely obscene.

Like I said, if anyone needs a body to fill a group trip let me know. I'll sleep in a cupboard or under a table. Anything for another sniff.