As some regulars will know I've posted about cycle related performance issues and even everyday stress/fatigue issues in the chat thread. Many here have accused me of "whinging" or "moaning" and being pushed by my coach as I've tried to find out why I've suffered huge losses of performance, fatigue and desire to race, and even a mental negative spiral about life in general.
Recently I received a positive Epstein Barr diagnosis, most likely the cause of the last six months of issues after an illness in March, but who know how long it goes back to. In any case, my frequent illness of Covid, Flu, Bronchitis like symptoms could have all been EB.
So there you go, its not just moaning, and I'd like to point out my coach has been super helpful in managing my fatigue and trying to identify the issues. But now I know and I'll be ensuring I know how to manage chronic fatigue better in the future. It comes as a massive relief to know what's going on.
If you want to understand the impact of EB on cyclist via someone more popular and well known, read this and other articles: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/epstein-barr-virus-mark-cavendish-diagnosed-392430
It's good to moan and I hope you can get some help now.
About ten years back I had a month off work with EBV and it took me 6 months to recover the first time. You can relapse with it too as has been seen with Cav, it's not a one and done with everyone.
I relapsed once badly and a couple of times 'mildly', I've never been the same since I first got it, and I'm more susceptible* to colds/flu etc.
Take your time to recover, I went from being a 22 min 5km runner to not being able to run 1km afterwards, it wiped me out. I have got my fitness back though and got my 5km PB after
Fingers crossed you get back to full health soon!
(*feels that way and they hit me way harder now)
It’s good to moan and I hope you can get some help now.
Thanks, I hope the general context brings awareness and might be helpful for others.
Of note, EB is not tested for in normal blood tests. You need to request a specific EBV test from your Doctor, and in some regions you may need to pay for it privately. If you suspect you have it or want to rule it out, push for the test. I had 3 rounds of blood tests over the last few months to get to this point.
It should also be noted that most people in the world WILL have been infected by it at some point because its extremely common, but also most people will not experience outgoing symptoms - similar to a Flu and therefore hard to diagnose. There's usually a trigger and even that varies by individual. I think only 25% of all cases suffer outward symptoms of EB.
@spawn very similar - I did a 25km / 1 hour Zone 2 in May and couldn't ride again for 3-4 days. Its been slowly getting better as time has gone on, I'm training again and on Sunday complete 91KM at the top of Z2 (190w) and 29.1KMPH on the road which felt glorious. Now of course I have to be wary of symptoms & fatigue forever more.
I'm also very susceptible to respiratory viruses, and now I know why.
I'm currently being tested for this. 2 out of 3 of my sputum samples are growing bacteria and we're waiting to find out what it is.
I've been ill very frequently over the last 2 years. I've suffered really badly with repeated tonsillitis, flu, every sickness bug going, fatigue, exhaustion, brain fog, the list goes on. It's been a rough ride.
I've never been so happy to find out that I've got bacteria in my lungs! Hopefully we can wipe it out and I can get my life back.
EBV is dormant in the majority of the population. If, like me, you have (undiagnosed - because GPs are rubbish in this area) Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) they i would strongly recommend Dr Sarah Myhills website https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/ and her book about CFS. In my particular instance i have (or had) random episodes of post exertional malaise. And its not being lazy, its being unable to walk up the stairs properly and sleeping 50% more because im exhausted after exercise.
You may also want to read Dr Myhills paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680051/
In short, i would encourage you to research mytochondria dysfunction and supplements to support the function. Your GP wont help you here so you will have to help yourself.
I supplemented with Acetly L Carnintine, the carrier molecule which carries 'stuff' (cant remember exactly what) into and our of the mytochondria for energy production. The change in me was a revelation and the post exertional fatigue is now a thing of the past.
I wish you the best @sharkattack, but your symptom are the same as mine. As you say, its a relief to know though, as you have something you can manage.
edit: thanks @edward2000, I will do some reading!
..Dr Sarah Myhill....
And as a clinical counter argument, Sarah myhill is a complete fraudster who has been suspended from clinical practice (though MAY be back frauding again) and is, alegedly, a dangerous individual preying on vulnerable pateints.
I'm not saying that NHS care of 'medically unexplaind symptoms' is perfect, but this woman is dangerous.
'nuff said.
DrP
mitochondria
The GMC dropped every charge against Sarah Myhill, becasue they couldn't find any witnesses to testify...
Her website even says
Registered with the Association of Naturopathic Practitioners
Registered with the General Naturopathic Council
Deregistered from the General Medical Council
(emphasis mine).
I am obviously not you, but that to me suggests snake oil.
and for balance....
https://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Response_to_GMC_Action_to_suspend_me_from_its_Register_-_1_February_2023
Could we focus on this thread perhaps being useful for others within its context? It's the reason I started it, but appreciate direction to useful material where it's appropriate to do so.
Could we focus on this thread perhaps being useful for others within its context? It’s the reason I started it, but appreciate direction to useful material where it’s appropriate to do so.
Agreed...
Bascially, I tend to avoid commenting on most medical type threads, and generally 'leave people be'... but whenever Myhill's name comes up, I strongly feel I should warn/highlight about her practices.
She's infamous amongst the respected medical community, and I don't shy away from saying she preys on vulnerable people looking for answers (akin to mediums who "talk to the dead", albeit for a fee....!)
DrP
Emil Johanssan also has it
https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/emil-johansson-mountain-bike-inspired-by
Could we focus on this thread perhaps being useful for others within its context?
Sorry about that.
Back on topic I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that you've watched the Cavendish documentary on Netflix? I have nothing to really add on top of that other than to say that it seems important that you take care of yourself, even if it goes against your instinctual desire to perform. This strikes me to be as much of a mental shift as a physical one.
Same sort of symptoms as you here. Tested for EB. Negative. Vit D sorted me out. Only abnormal thing in a huge range of blood tests.
I am well aware how much placebo effect could be going on here
FYI I got tested for Vit D deficiency and Hyponatremia (low sodium) on the way.
I had EB when I was younger; It wiped me out for a month; was 6 months plus before I felt "normal" and I'm reliably informed by my family that it was 3 years or so before I was actually what they though was "ok" - so I can totally sympathise ! Take it easy; it can be a slow journey
Sounds a lot like my covid journey. Two years off and coming back steadily it was the post-exercise lack of recovery and general inflammation and fatigue that got me down. But rest and low intensity walking helped greatly. And I don't really miss smelling that much. Take it easy to help recover property various potions and vitamins may or may not be beneficial but the evidence is poor. I take multi - vitamins for 50+ when l remember. I doubt they do very much.
Bad luck OP. I can't add much but the slow recovery from long covid is try not to feel guilty about doing sweet FA on a bad day (I still do mind). Learning not to push on and just veg in front of Richard Osman's house of games takes more mastery than you realise.
You will improve but probably slower than you want which sucks. Sending a man hug as those sometimes help.
If most people have been infected with it then how are the symptoms attributed to it?
TiRed / Slowol - thanks, but TiRed this cannot be compared to what you been though. I appreciate both - and earlier - points toward resting though. The Dr made it very clear to me that ignoring two weeks rest with viral symptoms could easily lead to 5-6 months off the bike, so no "pushing thorugh" any more.
@thecaptain - its very hard to diagnose as it basically replicates/is a Flu like inlless with long recovery period which in itself can be attributed to generalised post viral fatigue. The way I found out about it is that I've been suffering loss of power, Vo2max, endurance and recovery on the bike for 9 months now, with my symptoms matching another athlete my coach works with whom he knows has Epstein Barr. After we worked through many other things - changes in training plan etc, HR observations - he suggested I should get the test and voila....
The difference with Epstien Barr is you dont become immune to it. You recover, it lies dormant - as it does in the majority of affected people - but can then re-appear when triggered. Triggers can be other illness, low immune system capacity and various other random things. The Dr did state that being a healthy and fit individual lessons the chance of re-occurrence.
I've had CFS/ME on and off since 1998 with varying degrees of recovery. Initially I was told it was likely post viral, and back then, by endocrinologists to have look in some womens magazines as there might be something that helps (I'm a man btw)!
Around 2007 I was eventually diagnosed with CFS/ME at a centre in Leeds. I'm not sure if I ever had blood tests for EBV, but my symptoms are essentially the same, but then they are for lots of viral things.
I'm currently unable to work with it again, but did have a good spell of maybe 10years where I was managing full-time and a good bit of riding and hiking before it all started crashing down again with me pushing on through it until it came to a head.
Hope you get over it before too long, for sure the key is to rest and recover to get out of the hole, and then slowly pace your self to increase capacity to do stuff (everything in life, not just exercise) without running yourself down again. It's a real PITA and I really struggle not to sabotage recovery by not resting enough and not doing too much.
I find build up of stress and general life/family busy-ness is as much as a trigger as exercise, so watch that too.
Oh and... I've spent a fortune on various pills and supplements and dietary changes which have not made any notable difference, but obviously if you have and deficiency then that needs addressing, but the blood tests I have had have always returned ok for things like vit B or D. Thyroid has been borderline before, but they wouldn't let me try a dose to see if it helped (brother and mother are on thyroxine).
I had glandular fever about 15 years ago, it knocked me quite badly and took a long time for me to feel like myself again. The issue is even 15 odd years later it still affects me to some extent, as soon as I feel run down or if my body is fighting a minor cough or cold, the glands in my neck swell up and I feel like I only have about half the energy I normally would.
I've been to my GP countless times over the years and generally I am told bloods look fine and I need rest, good diet and to avoid strenuous exercise until I feel better. Pretty much that it is post viral fatigue even after something fairly minor (that most people would bounce back from in a few days).
Good luck with it, it can start to get you down after a while.
On the plus side, there's every chance that you might still come back and beat the all time Tour stage wins record.
A bit late reply to this thread. M28 from greece and struggling with some cfs like symptoms for 4 months. Not diagnosed and If I have it, it’s defo mild. My symptoms started suddenly after a hard week at work and after months of intense road bike training. I’m not working atm nor riding as before. Only walking and some light jogging. Tests came back normal from blood tests to mri. There’s plenty of negativity on places like Reddit etc. I want to hear successful recoveries and people who are able to ride again and continue their lives as before.
How are you feeling now? Are you still in remission?
@niko
Yeah I think so. Since I posted this thread I haven’t been ill in the slightest, and have been training hard anywhere around 8 hrs a week. In the last week a rash under my eyes resurfaced which I thought was an indicator has reappeared but no other symptoms. I tend to get quite tired on Sundays on which I start to think “here we go” but I do have big 3-4hr rides on Saturdays.
I did have another light bulb moment a few weeks ago; for years I’ve had this mild inexplicable rash on my chest, nothing more than a bit of redness and sometimes slightly itchy. That of course can be a classic sign as I now know. I don’t have it now.
Since the initial post I’ve been more disciplined about sleep, drink less - I only drink 1-2 days a week as a rule- during drinking days to promote better sleep and moved to “50+” vitamins. Nothing outstanding but as I said, I’ve been good for a while. I’m bordering on the conclusion that it’s “illness” that triggers it - I usually have some kind of respiratory illness over the winter which gets worse quite rapidly, but not this yet perhaps becuase I have limited public transport based travel and meetings.
You mention your blood tests are negative - although this could be different in Greece not tested by default in a blood test, you have to ask for a specific test to pick up the antibodies.
