[Closed] Which steel hardtail would you opt for?

Dialled PA ftw 😉 great bikes.
I rode a 19" PA for a while and only stopped when I swapped all the bits over to an Dialled Alpine.
Very versatile, great handling, rode great uphill and down.

Love my prince Albert.

Am I right in assuming the PA sits in between the cotic (svelte and springy) and the on one (quite alu-like in its rigidity)?

The PA just looks right to me as well.

Absolutely loving my Prince Albert!

Well produced frame at a great price!

PA for me too.
On my second PA frame now, went from 520 one to a red 853.
To be honest only changed because I wanted a red frame.
The grey 520 is going to a mate

I ride an Orange P7 with 140mm Fox RLCs. It's been everywhere and just keeps going, not the lightest but goes fast as hell downhill.

I'd give the 456 Evo a long hard look. I've been delighted with the fun I've had from the 'old' 456, have just got myself an 2nd hand Ti456 and am looking forward to getting out on that once it's built. If you want a long-ish frame that won't cost a bomb (and that matches all your other criteria), then they're well worth considering.

Get the Soul. It's great, and the Classic is £400.

I am yet another PA owner, absolutely love it.

I run it with 130mm Revs and it will do whatever you want it to.

One word of advice, I think the sizing comes up quite large - I'm 5"10/11 on a 17" frame and it's plenty big enough.

absolutely love my PA.

Keep looking at souls....

Genesis Latitude?

if you feel cramped on our current bike then maybe a Sanderson Life, my large frame has a really long top tube and i run it with 120 forks, could prob go 130mm but may wonder a bit on the steep climbs, 50mm stem and 720 bars.
i am 6ft and have a long upper-body so it feels right.
also has a 27.2mm seatpost and an 853 frame. nice and springy in the back.
the Prince Albert, as everyone above has mentioned is also a great frame as well.

My Soul was brilliant. I think what recommends it most isn't just that it's brilliant, but that it fits the marketing bullshine "steel feel"- lots of others don't. And nothing wrong with that, but if you start out saying "I want a steel frame" then presumably it's that which you're after?

So when people say "I want a steel frame" I always rule out Inbreds, 456s, Sovs, P7s, all that sort of massive solid things, because they might be great but they don't do that steel thing. If people just say "I want a frame that does this" then it's more open.

IMO 😉

Pipe dream skookum- 853 steel for £350 if you order now- bargain

*whispers* Just bought an inbred...

Cove Handjob ( the Columbus tubed one ).

Cove handjob was the best steel hardtail I've owned .

Singular swift? Love mine. Haven't measured but it feels longer in the top tube than my FS (RM element): fits me better (long back, short legs). Or maybe a buzzard if you want to run 130mm fork. Both 29ers mind.

I've done a bit more research and (I think) have revised my shortlist slightly. It now stands as:

Dialled Prince Albert (advantages = price, reliability / disadvantages = not quite as 'steel feel' as the cotic)

Classic Cotic Soul (advantages = 'steel feel', pure looks / disadvanatges = not a good value as the PA?)

Pipedream Sirius (late entry) (advantages = as the cotic / disadvantages = as the cotic). It is also available in 'Candy Apple Red' which looks the business.

Can anyone add to this by potentially comparing the Pipedream and the Cotic?

Jeez, there's only three left on my shortlist, but this is becoming IMPORTANT!

By the way, I'm looking to run 130mm forks (standard steerer) and 27.2mm seat post. 26 inch wheels with conventional QR skewers. 29ers are out - there's no way the 'committee' will let me get away with a whole new bike.

if your concern is the PA doesn't give you the steel thing, worry not, it most definitely does!

I find that there's a certain speed that feels like that's enough cheers but if you push further then there's so much more that can be taken at pace no bother at all. At least with my decidedly average riding style...

They're all good, just each has a slightly different perspective on where the compromise is.
Aggressive riders on bumpy terrain may find a Soul too soft.
Lighter or very smooth riders may not load an Inbred or 456 enough to actually get the flex. it's there all right, just not as noticeable as on the Soul.
The PA apparently sits in between. Does that make it a really Good compromise?
For what it's worth, I have both an Inbred and a Dialled Alpine. I love both, for different reasons. Tried a Soul, didn't get on with it very well, too noodly for me.
Enjoy this process, it's all part of the fun.

I’ve had both a Pipedream Sirius (R853) and a classic Cotic Soul.

I really enjoyed riding the Sirius but it was heavier than first advertised and when compared with the Soul that was a fair bit lighter it was obvious in end of build weights (hope that makes sense!)

The Soul was “whippier” but no more or less comfortable that the Sirius.

That said the sliding dropouts, whilst heavy, were very useful.

If I were to buy a 26’’ frame again I would happily have either the PD or the Cotic.

That doesn’t help does it!

More helpfulness >>>>

I now own a Solaris and have just bought a Skookum.

I've got an 853 PA and love it. Drunk purchase one night!

You won't go wrong with a soul or a PA. ive got both :-/

Highland man does a better job of trying to say what I wanted to say 😳

*cheeky mode on*

You could buy this 19" PA frame for £90 to see if you like it, and if you do then splurge on a new one.
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/frames-indentiti-mr-hyde-dialled-pa-s-works-fsr-sunn-voodoo ]Dialled PA ad[/url]

*cheeky mode off*

I'd suggest an Orange P7. They're ace! I bloody love mine! Unfortunately they're presently extinct as Orange seem to be concentrating on making the ugliest bikes known to man instead. 29er filing cabinet instead perhaps? 😉

Kinesis Decade Versa.

Loved mine.

I do love my Curtis even more, it has to be said but they'e a fair bit more now.

I am 5'11" and ride a 19" 2008 Cotic Soul in custard yellow with green graphics, 130mm revelation fork and a 70mm stem. I love it.
I had a 456 SS which had a harsh ride, felt heavy but was fun on the right trail.
A 2007 P7 was compliant but heavy and no fun.
Cove HJs are great but better with a shorter 120mm fork.
I've never ridden a PA so can't comment.
I'm sure you'd love the Soul though.

Saracen Kili flyer hand made fillet brazed 853 lovelyness for 300 quid. Long top tube and geometry for a 120 fork. I went from a 456 to the kili and love it.

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/p53903/Saracen-Kili-Flyer-Cromo-Reynolds-853-Frame-2011.aspx

I would have loved a Soul but I'm a bit of an ape and they just feel a bit short in the top tube, longer stems or really layed back posts just don't cut it on the Soul.

PA is a heffer. Cotic is noodley 😉

I moved from a Dialled PA to a classic Soul. The PA was harder and stiffer, felt indestructable and very confidence inspiring. Soul is flexier and more comfortable but suits me and my riding better.

Something that rarely gets mentioned when comparing these two, in my opinion, is the paint on the PA was far more durable.

Why can't you buy a whole new bike?
Think of the time and money you'd save
[img] [/img]
http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m15b126s2p6988/GENESIS_2012_Latitude_10_2012/RS_GB/20224

If I could wind the clock back 6 months I would have bought a Production Privee Shan over the Cotic soul that I ended up getting. The soul is comfortable on climbs etc, but doesn't feel so good as I'd hoped downhill.

I think I've decided. The winner is.....

Dialled PA.

I'm going to make a few measurements on my old frame to make sure the PA will move in the right direction.

Oh, and pluck up the courage to ask the missus....

Don't ask, just let it turn up and tell her you won it in a competition or something like that

good work! PA is not a heffer. my medium is 2043g. Built up light, it's reasonably light.

Consider the medium, though, I'm the same height as you - 5'11 3/4" and very happy with my medium. Not felt cramped on it, even on a 115 mile day (90mm stem).

Good choice, was out on my PA last night round Leigh Woods and it was great! You won't regret it!

For info, the current Prince Albert is the Prince Albert Classic and is made of 853 tubing. This one is slightly lighter than the most recent 725 versions, and considerably lighter than the much earlier 520 versions. Some of the comments about weight are therefore not comparing like for like.