anyone taken advantage of the weak euro yet? x9 stages is 439 quid from powermeter24
I'd like to add at this point that my power2max is still working perfectly since installing it at the beginning of Sept.
I ride/turbo 5-6 days/wk, race lots. and endure epic torrential rainstorms periodically.
Pretty impressed that I've not had to press a button or do anything since I put it in.
Switch on the Garmin; power meter detected - HR monitor detected - start riding.
I love technology when it works!
Having seen all the cool things Vectors can do with an Edge 1000 Im tempted by a set of those now... Particularly if I get a potential windfall shortly!
No trade discount at all though weirdly. Madison B2B site shows trade and retail as the same price 😕
That the pedalling dynamics stuff? May have to get the second pedal!
Yep, would have to be a pair!
Pretty impressed that I've not had to press a button or do anything since I put it in.Switch on the Garmin; power meter detected - HR monitor detected - start riding.
I love technology when it works!
i don't know the ins and outs of power2max, but how do you know if the calibration has failed? or the numbers are out?
I'm tempted by a powertap G3 primarily for turbo work but I might stick the wheel on the bike as the weather improves and outdoor lunch hours become favorable. I'm only interested in a comparitive measure for myself - any reason I shouldnt?
No trade discount at all though weirdly. Madison B2B site shows trade and retail as the same price
That's usually the case if they don't have you listed as a Garmin Dealer isn't it?
Kryton, the newer powertap hubs are considered to be a bit rubbish. I'd get something else.
i don't know the ins and outs of power2max, but how do you know if the calibration has failed? or the numbers are out?
Some do have mechanisms to calibrate (hang a weight off the pedal etc) but most I think just check them against something they know to be good, e.g. Another PM.
I'm tempted by a powertap G3 primarily for turbo work but I might stick the wheel on the bike as the weather improves and outdoor lunch hours become favorable. I'm only interested in a comparitive measure for myself - any reason I shouldnt?
Kryton I don't know if you want to drop me a mail - my Powertap is back for a service, so I have options on subsidised replacements under their trade in program, perhaps I can pass the savings on to you?
That's usually the case if they don't have you listed as a Garmin Dealer isn't it?
Usually there's just no price, so Cervelo frames (for example) don't have a price against them. We've had at least 5 Edge 1000s and multiple other models this year, so ought to be a dealer. Maybe a Vector dealer is different.
my G3 is at Paligap as well, drifting calibration number, at a rate of +1 a day, the power numbers still seemed alright though, when comparing my power profile to my stages, however its now gone back,
Is anyone using Garmin Vectors?
If so, are they any good?
@notmyrealname (and anyone else interested) my mrs got a set of vectors last summer and between us we have used them multiple times a week since then. I even went through a few months of commuting on them in all weathers. I think they are on their 2nd or 3rd battery (no big deal with the use they get), and have been used on a few different bikes (winter road bikes, summer road bike, TT bike).
Seem to be very good at plug and play, as long as you are careful with the installation/swapping bikes. The only other downside is the look cleats but they work well for her.
Personally I've just got a new Rotor LT (right hand only) which is a bargain when you consider it's a top level crankset as well (I also got trade discount). Obvious downside of only one sided but I don't mind that. Less able to move between bikes, but I'm more decisive than my other half!
Rotor LT won't fit in the current crop of Trek road bikes, which is a shame, as it does look good, although personally I'm not a fan of the aesthetics!
Interestingly the Madison trade site now shows no trade prices for Vectors, which does suggest you need to be a specific dealer to get them. Which is a mild inconvenience.
Much the same experience with my Vector S. Don't commute so not out in all weathers, but it is on the winter bike that does get a lot of use. Easy enough to swap over but mine just lives on the one bike. Only a few months in but it's not given me any problems, but then neither has my old PowerTap or my Power2Max. Though I'd not have got one if I didn't already use Look cleats.
although personally I'm not a fan of the aesthetics!
They do tend to suit some bikes a lot better than others. Same goes for current crop of Shimano ones, look good on some bikes, god awful on others (e.g. anything a bit retro looking.)
Agree that the rotor aesthetics aren't for everyone, but they look ok on my mostly black bikes!
With the vectors trade thing, I spoke to our madison rep and was told I could purchase them for a very slim discount for personal use, but not for sale as the place I worked didn't sign up to sell them when they were first released.
Guessing that's exactly what it is then. May be better going via the US, or using a CRC/Wiggle voucher!
€1149 on Rose Bikes, so £854, not bad!
i emailed 4iii for an update on carbon crank compatibility, its still on the radar, but wouldn't commit too a time other than a few months due to current back log and testing required for each crank version
Powertap teasing some new products [url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/09/powertap-teases-new-products-crank-and-pedal-based-power-meters-on-the-way/ ]here[/url]. Crank and pedal systems on the way? Hope they are more reliable than the current hubs.
Powertap first look.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/03/powertap-announces-pedals-and-chainring.html
Chainrings are interesting (to me), hope you can change 'em without sending back?
Bit of a shame they've gone 5 arm 110 bcd from the off, ruling out any recent Shimano (or indeed Campag) cranks.
The pedals look a lot like the Xpedo Thrust.E which has gone very quiet of late. Surprised on the AAA battery, and 60 hours doesn't seem stunning longevity.
There was an update on DCR about the 4iiii last week too, they're now shipping units, apparently the delays with self install and the reason they're having to do it is because of shipping regs on the glue, mental! LH pods only, and no carbon cranks until the end of the year at least. UK pricing is the same in GBP and USD, what an incentive to buy from the complete unknown that is the UK distributor!
Pedals... can't see why you'd go for those over a Vector.
Chainring one looks interesting. I'd assume there will be new spider variants in time. Price could make it a tempting proposition. Looks like there is a spider thing that attaches to the crank spider, then the rings attach to that. Wonder if there is anything unusual about the chainrings that mean you can't use your own? I'd assume there is as why would they provide chainrings if there wasn't?
Pedals... can't see why you'd go for those over a Vector.
A fair bit cheaper in the US, not in Europe though. Agree, I'd still have Vectors, although quite nice they're completely self contained rather than having pods etc. Downside being they look shit.
Downside being they look shit.
As does the chainring one.
Pedals are quite heavy too.
Yes, chainrings look like they belong on this sort of thing:
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Wait, go and remove my interest from the spider PM, I'd somehow read the price as $499 not $699...
Don't really want FSA rings either, we all seen what happened to Cav, I don't wanna be taking anyone out when sprinting for the finish in my latest Sportive 😛
DC Raimaker has a production (left hand) 4iiii pod and started testing yesterday.
Garmin Vector 'standard' are out of stock in UK until mid/late April, maybe May! Local M*dis*n dealer can't get decent discount unless he orders bulk, possibly up to 10% discount off single orders to him so 5% to me.
Local shop will discount Stages but admits to returns/issues etc. All sorted by excellent warranty though. Maybe price will level out with 4iiii now? Rumoured to be 40% markup built into Stages so they have space to move.
I'd buy from the Germans at the moment. Some decent prices to be had from the likes of Rose and BikeDiscount.de.
Agreed, Rose pricing on Vectors is very good.
Yes, I've had a right side Vector sat in my Rose shopping basket for a few days now and am still hovering over the buy button!
Tempted by another P2M too with the Euro the way it is.
Waiting for the Powertap pedals if I decide to go down that pathway. The Stages won a race on Sunday 8) . It wasn't on my bike though! 😳 . A left hand vector would be OK too, but the torquing means that bike switching isn't as easy as just taking the crank (and pedal) off. Still the only option for power on my track bike though.
Stages win a lot of races, but they've probably got flat batteries by the time they cross the line 😆
A left hand vector would be OK too, but the torquing means that bike switching isn't as easy as just taking the crank (and pedal) off
Why not? Surely it's the pedal you torque, not the crank, if you swap the crank why would you need to change anything else?
Just for balance, I've used Stages power meter for a year now and had no battery issues. It's reliable and accurate in the consistent sense, I've been happy with it.
Why not? Surely it's the pedal you torque, not the crank, if you swap the crank why would you need to change anything else?
One thing I would add is that I use a big Park beam type torque wrench for the pedals and not the little Pedros one I use for everything else (doesn't go high enough). Also got the beam one because I am tightening it in the "wrong" direction and I didn't trust my big clicky torque wrench in that direction.
TBH the only time I really swap my vectors is to occasionally pop them on the turbo to compare with the PowerTap (mostly to compensate for a bit of left/right imbalance.) For that I just swap the crank arm with the pedal attached as they are both Shimano, easier to do and I don't need to get the big torque wrench out.
Someone on this thread a few pages back suggested that as long as you exceed the Vector torque then all is good, you don't have to be exact, it just has to be x ft/lbs, or more, which makes life a bit easier. No idea on the truth of that or how it would affect accuracy. I'd want to swap between bikes seasonally, and would probably put them on my MTB for funsies to see what happens, but that's about it, I can deal with 10 installations a year or so!
Stages win a lot of races, but they've probably got flat batteries by the time they cross the line
😛
No idea on the truth of that or how it would affect accuracy
Does seem consistent. I just make sure I give the threads a good clean, grease, then tighten up to 40Nm. Usually do a ride then torque up again.
Waiting for the Powertap pedals if I decide to go down that pathway.
Curious choice. Why's that?
Why not? Surely it's the pedal you torque, not the crank, if you swap the crank why would you need to change anything else?
Track bike uses different BB and cranks (square taper) to the road bikes, and of course they are shorter. Swapping the Stages is very quick as the pedal stays put.
Of course for the track bike there is no wind 😀 so cadence = speed = power, so it's a bit moot until I change sprockets. That's what I use on my fixed road bike (also square taper).
The Stages has proven thus far reliable. I've never had a battery issue (had other issues of course) and swapping Shimano cranks i very fast indeed.
Oh and for the reason for Powertap; I don't like the Garmin pods and like the idea of rechargeable AAA batteries
big reduction in Quarq prices 19%
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/04/02/sram-reduces-pricing-for-all-quarq-power-meters/#more-98603
Specialized/Cannondale Spiders down to $999 on the Quarq.com website as well
Track bike uses different BB and cranks (square taper) to the road bikes, and of course they are shorter. Swapping the Stages is very quick as the pedal stays put.
But why couldn't you do the same with a Vector? Just swap LH pedal and crank?
big reduction in Quarq prices 19%
Pioneer pricing looks interesting too - $999 for a proper dual sided power meter isn't bad.
What's the "UK tax" though?
You can already buy a Quark Riken for 720 quid. Proper dual sided and all that. It is a tempting price.
I dont think the Pioneer one is available in the UK (you need to send your crankset off for them to fit it).
I'm on my second Stages....batteries died overnight on the first one.
Second one, the first two batteries only lasted a week each. These were proper Duracell batteries. Then I put some cheapo "10 batteries for a pound" battery in there and touch wood, its lasted 3 weeks and still going.
You can already buy a Quark Riken for 720 quid. Proper dual sided and all that. It is a tempting price.
Hmmm, P2M Rotor 24 for ~£820, I'd personally prefer the P2M, known quantity for me and I like the look of the Rotor's.
You can already buy a Quark Riken for 720 quid. Proper dual sided and all that. It is a tempting price.
They're not though are they, they're using an assumed L/R split, not actually recording both sides.
I dont think the Pioneer one is available in the UK (you need to send your crankset off for them to fit it).
Anything to stop you sending a chainset to the US...?
I'd personally prefer the P2M, known quantity for me and I like the look of the Rotor's.
Quarq have been around a lot longer than P2M though.
But why couldn't you do the same with a Vector? Just swap LH pedal and crank?
Though it was obvious; track bike has crank a cm shorter and is square taper. So I would have to move the only pedals from the road bikes (which are Shimano Hollowtech) to the track bike. If I just had to switch cranks, which I do for the Stages from race bike to nice bike to rider I coach's bike, this wouldn't be a problem. I just don't want to keep torquing the pedals.
After using a power meter for a couple of years, I've come to like heart rate monitors more!
But you're saying Stages is better than Vector because you can swap Stages quickly, and yet you can do just the same with Vectors, and you can at least fit the Vectors to the track bike if you do want to torque them up... 😕
Seems an entirely moot point. Or am I missing something?
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4iiii lives!!!
Not mine though.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/04/16/all-new-rotor-inpower-hides-power-meter-tech-inside-crank-spindle/ interesting option
Interesting. Quite similar to [url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/04/ashton-instruments-early.html ]this Ashton one[/url] dcrainmaker was having a look at the other day, in that it's in the axle, though different way of measuring power.
Ooh, Power2Max also dropping all their prices by 21% ([url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/04/power2max-pioneer-quarq-price-slashing.html ]here[/url]).
yay just after i've bought my power2max 🙄
yay just after i've bought my power2max
Ouch. I was hovering over the buy button the other day! Not sure if this is UK or US prices though, dcrainmaker is only quoting dollar prices. Had a quick look at the p2m website today and they don't seem any cheaper. Should be about 100 euro cheaper if they follow US prices.
Edit... having actually read the article 😀 It looks like it'll be US prices only as the driver is the change in US/Euro rates. Now a bit cheaper in the US than Europe by the looks of it.
Ooh, Power2Max also dropping all their prices by 21% (here).
Awesomez!! (Or not really 'cos I'm skint...) I really want a PM for the XC bike, I just like the numbers!!
They did this last time though, slashed the U.S. prices but ****ed the rest of us Euros over, obviously, why wouldn't you.
interesting option
I'm sure it'll work eventually, after what, 17000 SW updates? Isn't it ironic how Rotor chose to work with the SW update masters Garmin in le world tour...
Available for £699 [url= http://www.velotechservices.co.uk/shop/vclose2.asp?prd=192180&cat=82 ]here[/url]. Not too bad. Assume it'll be a bit cheaper from the Germans too.
The Pioneer at $999 seems a bargain! The pricing volatility on these is a real barrier to purchase though - we're seeing everyone slashing prices, I'd be really worried to buy anything unless it had just been (significantly) reduced!
Pioneer, where can you actually get them from?
Only the US I think...
Ah, some Euro retailers [url= http://pioneer-cyclesports.com/us-en/shop/ ]here[/url]. Wonder what the 999 includes? Sounds like you provide your own cranks and retailer installs?
Aye, think that's right, and it'll work with 9000 or 6800 cranks.
I'd not realised that it doesn't really send much data via ANT+ though, and their head unit doesn't look all that.
Still currently the cheapest system to really measure both sides though I think, if such things bother you...
Still currently the cheapest system to really measure both sides though I think, if such things bother you...
Well, to be able to display accurately both sides independently anyway 🙂
I do wonder what use that is though. I know I'm roughly 46/54 for most of my riding based on comparing data from Vector S, PowerTap and P2M. Not sure what I can do with that information though! Don't think there's much benefit in trying to somehow even out that imbalance, I think that's just the way people are.
Must check out the new Garmin Pedalling Dynamics stuff to see if there's anything there that would justify getting the RHS pedal.
Why don't P2M do an Stype for shimano MTB 🙁
I'm 52/48, weirdly it seems worse when I'm fresh than when I'm tired. Would have thought it'd be the other way around. Also I'm left foot forward on the mtb so I'd have also though my right would be slightly stronger from riding a lot of DH way back when as more weight goes through it. I get the feeling my imbalance is due to shady knees, right is definitely less robust.
Why don't P2M do an Stype for shimano MTB
Shimano don't do any cranks with a removable spider, they'd either have to deal directly with Shimano (like SRM) to get a spider less crankset or machine it off somehow. Rotors are pretty decent IMO. I'd def buy another pair and considered a standard Rex until I noted the proprietary BCD.
Nick, I know a clubmate who broke two pods torquing them. I think swapping crank and pedal is the fastest option for me.
At the moment the Stages is on loan to a rider I coach. I'm not really missing it to be honest. I do like to keep a close eye on cadence though, and most of my riding is done fixed.
4iii is too expensive for what it is. £300, i'd buy three.
4iii is too expensive for what it is. £300, i'd buy three.
$399? £267? Yes ok fees and that on top, but seems cheap to me. Or do you mean double sided? It's a shame they've been beset with all the shipping problems, particularly over something so trivial. I still think it's got a lot of potential. A lot of grumpy people on their FB page though it must be said!
4iii is too expensive for what it is. £300, i'd buy three.
Said much the same earlier in this thread I think. But in reality I'd probably just be complaining that it wasn't 200 quid 🙂
Not sure why it's overpriced at virtually 1/3 the cost of a Stages?
You get half a crankset with a stages too 🙂
And this hour's power meter news... [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/garmin-vector-2-and-vector-2s-power-meters-launched-38098/ ]Garmin Vector 2 released[/url], same price, new pods. Wonder if we'll see any discounts on the 'old' one - considering it's basically the same unit I'd definitely have a pair!
You get half a crankset with a stages too
Hardly a selling point when you can't (economically) buy the other half though!
Hardly warrants a "2"! Not sure why they bothered really. Status LED's could come in handy I guess. Dark colour makes them a bit more discreet I suppose.
Hardly a selling point when you can't (economically) buy the other half though!
It is a shame they don't give you the option to fit to your cranks (even if you had to send them in) or sell the entire crankset. Though I think that's been done many times on this thread already!
It is a shame they don't give you the option to fit to your cranks (even if you had to send them in) or sell the entire crankset. Though I think that's been done many times on this thread already!
What, you mean like 4iiii does for 1/3 the price 😉
You're right, we're definitely going over old ground! Hardly a surprise after 12 pages!
Agree it's not worthy of the '2' moniker, but if anyone discounts the original ones it could be a result. Not convinced it'll happen though.
Actually, looking at the Madison site they may be doing a cheeky discount on the original ones, or they're at least now showing proper tiered trade prices. 2s listed, but no date. Still £1200 retail.
after 12 pages, I have some new ground for you all...
Always used a powertap Pro+. Always happy with the data. When the torque tube went, you were under no illusion something was up.
Ended up getting a G3 wheel on the replacement scheme. Fair enough. If it lasts the same length of time I will be happy enough with the outlay for that amount of training time. Everything in life seems to be a consumable now anyway.
BUT
after 4 weeks riding the new wheel, the calibration number started dropping. It was always well within the 512 +/- 12 for those first few weeks until sundays ride where it was 480. Recalibrated several times mid ride and it dropped into the 470's and then the 460's
Eventually it settled on 448
It is away back and the support has been good.
but the point of this story is that I have been told NOT to calibrate and auto zero the hub using my Garmin Edge 500, it interferes with the hubs slope. WTF is that all about?
How am I meant to calibrate the thing or check the zero offset before a ride unless I shell out and buy a Joule?
Anyone else had this?
So there are no 24mm axle crankset power meters? P2M 30mm, Rotor 30mm, Quark 30mm. I now remember why Stages was so attractive even if it does require a precautionary battery change before every important event.......
Can you no longer get a P2M with the Rotor 3D24 crankset? That's what I got last year.
Edit... [url= http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Produkt/bestsellers/power2max-type-s-rotor-3d24-road/ ]yes you can[/url].
So there are no 24mm axle crankset power meters?
You can get Quarqs in GXP too, plus SRM. So yes, everything except Rotor is available in 24mm!