[Closed] Which power meter - Stages or Power2Max?

Powerpod makes sense though. You can se how it would work. The same isn't true of arofly. Its not at all clear how it could possibly work unless it is doing something like trying to work is conjunction with an hrm

Must have been quite lucky with my vectors, they've been trouble free. So far it's been...

PowerTap Pro hub - never had a problem with it
Power2Max - been fine
Vectors - started as an S then upgraded with a second pedal, no problems, on the winter road bike so see some filthy conditions
PowerTap Pro hub - dead out of the box, sent back for refund
PowerTap C1 - first set readings way out, replaced with a second set which have been good so far
Stages XT - installed but yet to be used!

This Stages is really starting to boil my piss now, getting calibration readings over 1200

Just in case anyone else gets this, had a swift response from Stages (they're good at that) suggesting moisture. Battery out, cover off and leave it somewhere warm and dry for 12 hours...calibration readings back to normal.

Bit annoying.

The warranty stages unit that I have had for a couple of weeks is on its third battery. I have to send three back tomorrow for assessment! !!!

Still some stages on Sigma and now with the Merry codes extra 40 or 60 quid off wish I waited a bit longer before I pressed buy recently 😉

I wish I'd have waited a bit longer and bought something else.

My INPower by comparison has been perfect...2 batteries in 12 months, no dropouts and always wakes up...even after 3 hour soakings.

I dropped all three stages off today for them to take a look (saddleback are local to me). Had an email this afternoon to say they are replacing all of them.

Great service from Saddleback and Stages but it is wearing a bit thin now.

I will wait to see how the replacement units behave.

I thought the latest warranty replacement (about two weeks old) was draining batteries but I think there may actually be a problem with the wake-up circuit.

I tried to connect via the app but it would not see the power meter, I then removed the battery and measured the voltage (3V). I put the battery back in and the app would then find it and reported full battery.

This is a different failure mode to one of the other units that was reporting low battery on the app (only changed a few days before).

I will post any updates.

Similar to what mine has been doing, see my post above re. removing battery and cap.

Support advised that 'ambient humidity' could also cause a problem, bike is kept in a single skin garage so maybe there's an issue there. Bit annoying for an IPX7 unit.

For now it's being kept indoors with the battery and cover removed after every ride, will see how it goes over the next week or two.

They've actually sent me two updated battery doors (which are identical to the one I already have) and two new yellow seals. Interestingly they both came from Saddleback.

As you said, support has been first class but it's wearing thin. Wouldn't recommend one, maybe if you never ride outdoors and keep your bike in the house....

Haze - Member

Support advised that 'ambient humidity' could also cause a problem

If that is the case then they have some serious problems!! The unit is designed to work outdoors and in the rain. The external ambient humidity should be irrelevant if the enclosure is sealing correctly. Mine are also kept outdoors in a single skin garage, I would have thought they would be designed to operate down to -20Deg C (not a particularly unusual temperature globally). My two week old warranty unit has not seen temperatures below about 5 Deg C in my garage.

Guess I'll just to try to recreate the few different scenarios until I find a pattern of success or failure.

Belt and braces at the moment, but if this works consistently then I'll move the bike back into the garage but continue to remove the battery and cover after every ride to see what effect it has.

Interesting to discover this thread - since updating the firmware on my Stages (with the iPhone app) it can no longer be found via Bluetooth, although ANT+ devices detect it. And it has a habit of putting itself to sleep mid-ride, or failing to wake up after I stop for a moment and start riding again (waiting for mates at the top of hills, for example).

I'm using it with an old but so far very trusty Garmin 800, and I've been wondering if it was the Garmin's fault, but that seems to work fine with every other ANT+ sensor - so I'm going to be having a chat with Saddleback soon I think!

Picked up my replacement units today. Put one onto my bike and went out for a ride and after about 45 mins the power dropped right off and then started peaking to around 50W. It was still showing as connected and would calibrate to a value of zero (but Garmin was saying calibration successful). Looks like another duff, this will be the fourth in about two months for this one!

Haze - Member
Support advised that 'ambient humidity' could also cause a problem,

Apparently they are getting the same problems in Arizona...!

Pierre - Member

Interesting to discover this thread - since updating the firmware on my Stages (with the iPhone app) it can no longer be found via Bluetooth, although ANT+ devices detect it. And it has a habit of putting itself to sleep mid-ride, or failing to wake up after I stop for a moment and start riding again (waiting for mates at the top of hills, for example).

I think there is a major problem with the sleep/wake-up circuit. I have seen two different failures (until tonight!). One drains batteries and the other does not wake up with a good battery.

I'm using it with an old but so far very trusty Garmin 800, and I've been wondering if it was the Garmin's fault, but that seems to work fine with every other ANT+ sensor - so I'm going to be having a chat with Saddleback soon I think!

It is not the Garmin. Email Saddleback. From my conversation with them, Stages are happy to get as many units back as possible in an attempt to get to the bottom of the problem.

So... I'm seriously considering getting some Favero BePRO pedals. I've read DC Rainmaker's review and read (most of) the comments below it, and generally things seem good. Does anyone here have any direct experience with them?

Another satisfied PowerPod user here.

Power = Driving Force x Velocity

Can't argue with that 😉

I agree that Powerpods have their uses, but they're not for me.

Seen good results with my second Powerpod. First had a failed USB port and is being repaired. Paired with a Garmin magnetless speed sensor on the front wheel, I move it between road bikes. The default settings give reproducible results. The integrated Giant cadence/speed sensor on my carbon bikes does not talk to the Powerpod, so I don't use different profiles 🙁 . My Powercal set on 10sec smoothing also gives reasonable data, not as nice as the Powerpod, but it provides a nice summary of NP for Strava that is basically accurate enough to tell me that a race was easy/hard/brutal.

The (third - I broke two) Stages also worked fine, it's lent to another rider at the moment, and I sealed the crank in an inner tube cutting.

I'm also thinking pedals, but am wedded to Look. DC's go-to power meter is the Powertap P1's, I'd be very happy with their single sided version if it was cheaper. Those BePROs might struggle to accommodate overshoes or my winter boots. There is a lot of history of designing power meters for nice sunny conditions (My first Stages didn't survive it's first cold wet Feb ride).

My HR is nowhere near consistent enough to be very useful for power calculations. I want to use on the turbo and outside, so Powerpod would have limited use (I know it can do something indoors, but I already have a turbo that does virtual power and want better).

The BePRO seem like good value. The electronics are sealed in resin, which given the water issues people have had with Stages and P1s, is a bonus. I agree about the clearance though, that's my only reservation. Cleat shims wouldn't be the end of the world though. BePRO are Look compatible, BTW, perhaps more so than P1s.

I'm a week in to using a 4iii unit. Left hand crank mounted like stages but about half the price.

Working well so far and giving my numbers I would expect from previous watt bike and power tap hub readings. Realise that's not proper science-type comparison but...

So my new routine for the Stages seems to be working.

Remove battery after every ride, wet or dry. I think the damp air in my garage possibly causes battery drain, as it's okay if left in the house.

After a wet ride or bike wash calibration readings will be all over the place. So day before next ride leave in house by the radiator overnight...battery out and cap off.

Seems to be working but what a pain in the ass. Meanwhile the Rotor INPower continues to work flawlessly.

My P1s are going back. Hardly used the bike since having a baby on Christmas Day, tried a turbo session on Sunday and they were just dropping out constantly. Put it down to the cheap Ikea batteries, but had the exact same today with brand new Duracells. Weirdly cadence continues to work, but that reinforced it's not a signal transmitting issue.

See what Paligap do!

Google keeps telling me the powerpod is £212 at probikekit and even shows it on the cache page but go on to the website and its £249, holding out for a price drop

I got some BePRO pedals last week. So far they seem good. Have been riding with those and a Powertap hub to compare. Will give a full DC Rainmaker style analysis in due course...

Several months of Powerpod riding now shows it to be consistent and sufficient for effort-based road training. Whilst the absolute power may or may not be precise, it is an excellent device.

I bought mine in the US. Sent one back and the replacement is now on the fixed wheel road bike. It was $299. Given that the company are US based and the device is US manufactured, I'd not expect much change from
£299 now.

Happy to share ride information if anyone wants to see the files.

TiRed, I'm still tempted to get one to have a play with CdA analysis. I see there's some new software available too for that when used with a DFPM too...

https://www.ibikesports.com/product/newton-cda-wind-tunnel-upgrade-key/

Can't find anyone who's done any extensive testing of the capability though.

Ask nicely a i'll lend you my spare. Might reinstate my Stages.

Ooooh pretty please TiRed 🙂

Powerpods can be bought here: [url= https://www.probikekit.co.uk/cycling-power-meters/powerpod-powermeter/11280537.html ]Pro bike kit[/url]

Usually they have 10-16% off codes & cashback too. E.g. VBOX10 gets you 10% off 😆

I've been renting a gen 1 stages for the last couple of months, it's been flawless and I've been using it in some grim conditions. My bike is stored inside though...

njee - from what I hear the powertaps are VERY picky about the battery you use. I think it has to be Lithium or something. A friend who sells them says that wrong battery is the only mode of failure he's seen on them so far, but that they're surprisingly picky.

So I've heard, but I've been using them for over a year with no issues. Will try some lithium batteries anyway.

Powerpods are £250 plus 10% off at ProbikeKit this week, add £30 for the Garmin wireless speed sensor (which I think is a must for the front hub) to give a swapable PM for £250. I'm very pleased with both of mine. MrB, you haven't been in touch yet and my red one is going to be moved soon to my TT bike for the summer.

Honestly, you have to see it to appreciate just what it can do (including detecting coasting at 0W). I was doing 20/40 sprints this morning and it had no trouble recording my (paltry) peak outputs of 800 Watts. I use it for distance training too, and target 3.5 W/kg for three hours on my Early morning Sunday rides.

Absolute wattage may not be exact, but reproducible training efforts certainly are. And that's what training with power is all about.

Stages have just released a new version of firmware that 'Fixes a possible sleep initiation bug'. Fingers crossed that this could be the battery drain problem finally solved.

The three that I have seem to be working OK at the moment, batteries are lasting approximately 1 month (not as good as they claim) but certainly better than some of the units I have had replaced under warranty.

I intend to update the firmware on them all over the weekend.

@tired - if they worked on the turbo trainer I would have bought one already 😆

Think I'll get a powerpod, any of you got a probikekit referral code? Gets you a fiver and me 10% off first purchase

GEM10 code works too.

Looking at a Powerpod on my TT bike. Do i need a speed sensor? Ill only be recording power to my Garmin 810, Strava to do the rest. It there so i can ride to my power output.

And, does the standard in-the-box mount work ok between the TT extensions or do i need the dual garmin mount?

Do i need a speed sensor?

Yes, since power is Force x speed. PP measures opposing forces and multiplies by bike speed. DFPM measure force from a strain gauge and multiply by cadence x radius. Sadly PP can't take speed from your Garmin because head units do not broadcast.

Get the Garmin hub mounted one. I've just ordered another speed sensor to try for the second set up. Some of the dedicated bike ones such as my Giant ones do not register with the PP. My Wahoo one has also struggled

The mount in the box will only mount to standard bars. If there is room on your base bar, it will mount there, and I have done that. I subsequently bought the new dedicated mount from the US that mounts to the extensions.

iPowerpod?

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/apple-shake-cycling-power-meter-market-320351

Not sure if this is any use to anyone, but I managed to pick up an Ultegra 4iiii for £380 ish from PBK:
Got them to price match [url= http://www.hinderacingltd.com/4iiii-precision-power-meter---various-cranks-29780-p.asp ]Hinde Racing Ltd for £429[/url] they then have a £25 off £200 voucher taking it to £404 then £22 cash back via TCB, taking it below £400 and therefore could totally justify it to myself! 😆

I've been running a stages gen 1 with the typical battery issues. I did manage to get a good run out of it by drying inside but then a mildly moist ride set it back again. I have dried it out again and done the following

1: Put a roll of electrical tape on the inside of the door to push the battery against the -ive terminal
2: Pulled the negative terminal out with a knife
3: sealed around the seal with vaseline
4: wrapped the whole power meter unit to the crank with electrical tape

Hope it works

Just seen the the 4iiii 105 is 349! So I have also bought one of those for the winter bike so I dont have to keep swapping, and hopefully will have at least something reliable to train with/.

I took a section of 26" inner tube and slid it down the crank and over my Stages 1st Gen. Then sealed both ends with electrical tape. Since mine is Ultegra you wouldn't notice. This was after destroying two in cold wet conditions.

£350 is a decent price, but is still like my powerpod. It's the Physics geek in me above all else!

djglover - Member

I've been running a stages gen 1 with the typical battery issues. I did manage to get a good run out of it by drying inside but then a mildly moist ride set it back again. I have dried it out again and done the following

1: Put a roll of electrical tape on the inside of the door to push the battery against the -ive terminal
2: Pulled the negative terminal out with a knife
3: sealed around the seal with vaseline
4: wrapped the whole power meter unit to the crank with electrical tape

Have you tried contacting Stages and trying to get it swapped under warranty?

No, because I bought it second hand. This seems to have worked. though, I only have the back of the crank taped up BTW, Used it in the wet last night and full battery reading this morning.

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/694/33579735716_c7c3354fe2_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/694/33579735716_c7c3354fe2_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TajVwC ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/60401414@N00/ ]danjwilkinson[/url], on Flickr

Just pulled the trigger on the powerpod, Probikekit have it in a 24hr flash sale. It's been £249 for yonks but today is down to £230 and they have a £25 off over £200 code and got another 7% off from topcashback, brings it down to £196. Its like going back in time before the £ was crap.

I've been running my 4iii for a couple of months now. Mainly off-road miles, at times through some serious slop.

So far it's not missed a beat and the battery is still working....

My bodge failed on my stages, but as luck would have it the importer sent me a brand new one. Not bad considering I paid £330 for it second hand 🙂

I have another support ticket with Stages, they've asked me to clean with isopropyl and dry the unit indoors near a heat source. I explained that this has been done several times but after every wet ride I get the same issues.

Apparently water ingress is "extremely rare on a second generation unit through normal riding"

The next sentence I found a little worrying..."if you are pressure washing the meter, or somehow the compartment has prolonged exposure to the elements (including humid air) then that is an entirely different scenario"

I don't pressure wash any of my bikes, but prolonged exposure to humid air...kept in a cold garage?

Anyway, I'm following their advice and it's been cleaned and has been by the radiator for a week to dry out. Next sign of rain and I'll test it out, I'm not optimistic.

but prolonged exposure to humid air

Well having thought I had a problem with my legs I think it's actually a problem with my PM. Since the middle of last week my Vectors have gone from 55/45 (at worst) power balance to 60/40 (at best) and my power for effort/HR/RPE is well down. Wonder if it's something to do with the hot weather we had, it was baking in my bike store.

So now to figure out how to recalibrate 😕

I had major issues with my G2 stages over winter - new battery every few weeks. No problems over Spring Summer so I think Stages are just not compatible with the damp British climate.

My first stages didn't survive it's first cold wet February ride. Pod fell off! They've improved the bonding since then.

Pod fell off!

😯

Took the misbehaving vectors off last night to give them a good clean and re-install to see if that sorted the problem. Noticed that the LHS must have taken quite a knock as it wasn't on straight and the pod arm slightly bent inwards. No idea when or how this might have happened. Anyway re-installed and torqued up and all appears fine now with believable power numbers again 🙂

Waiting for the Favero Assioma. Heard only good things about the BePro pedals, and would like Bluetooth and easy no torque swapping. Cheaper than P1s, which have poor reliability. I'm planning on using single sided and will run with the TT Powerpod# for CdA estimation. Raced with the other PP on my road bike yesterday and the average and normalised power was almost identical to my team mates stages. This was on standard settings for drop bars.

Also considering a powertap in a Hed disc, as my Hed going back. The other solution is a Quark, but I like the original Dura Ace 7400 cranks too much.

#Calibrated at Hillingdon by riding 33 laps (50 km) - average power 207W. Bikecalculator predicted power (at 95% rolling resistance and 95% aero) 208W. These fine tunings reflect the tubeless Corsa Speeds and my arms up position.

Just had a code pop into my inbox for 20% off the 4iiii PM's at ProBikeKit. Code is 4EYE20 and brings the 105 version down to 302 quid. Bargain.

Thanks for the heads up, just ordered one 😀

Waiting for the Favero Assioma.

FWIW I've had only good experiences with my BePro pedals, and wouldn't hesitate to get Assiomas. The only slight drawbacks that I can see are that:

- Installing the BePro pedals was really very easy, but would be a slight faff to switch and swap. No torque wrench required, but a couple of bits (though I strongly believe that I could just do it by eye).
- The 'pod' doesn't clear some shoes without cleat shims. I shaved one of my pairs of shoes slightly, the others were fine as-is.
- The battery life is not massive, and the flaps / micro USB cables are a bit fiddly.

The Assiomas improve on all of those. I can't think of any good reason to get P1s over them.

Assiomas do look very good. I've got some warranty replacement P1s on the way, but wondering about flogging them, seems the reliability isn't the best, and they're out of warranty in 6 months time.

Just had a code pop into my inbox for 20% off the 4iiii PM's at ProBikeKit. Code is 4EYE20 and brings the 105 version down to 302 quid. Bargain.

Got my 4iiii from probikekit 24hrs after placingbthe order with free delivery

3 1/2 years after getting a stages, (x9's & a 7900 dura ace) i seem to have developed my first issue, seems to have come after a firmware update on the garmin, stages kept dropping out, less than 30 days left on the warranty so its gone back

Does anyone know if the quarq xx1 eagle is retro-fitable to a standard xx1 eagle or even xx1 11 sped crankest? My 11 speed x01 crankset didn't appear to have the correct fittings, but I haven't laid my hands on an xx1.

https://www.powermeter24.com/de/quarq-sram-xx1-eagle-powermeter-spider-1032?number=PM24-16-10377

no, its 8 bolt, rather than the usual 3 - you need a prior xx1 powermeter for that to fit

no, its 8 bolt, rather than the usual 3 - you need a prior xx1 powermeter for that to fit

Why don't quarq just make the power meter with the standard 3 bolt sram fixing then you could add the spider to xx1/x01/eagle etc.

It is a bit silly, quarq are part of sram, so you would think there could be some computability, I expect it would be good for sales.

Picked up an XT stages late last year. Had first ride on it on Saturday. Unsurprisingly the battery was flat 🙂

got my stages around january/february, been getting low battery warnings already

Got my warranty replacement (brand new boxed) set of P1s last week. Sadly, despite what I'd hoped, turbo training has not given me grand tour winning levels of power output, it just overstates things. Back to mediocrity now! Will do a comparison between the Tacx turbo and the P1s, country mile of difference between them I reckon!

Which Tacx turbo, out of interest?

I have a vague theory about my stages - which could be wrong.

I have 3 across my commuter, road and mtb. The commuter used the most lets sat 3 - 5 times a week road once a week and mtb once a fortnight at the moment.

The battery on the road runs down the quickest by far. Now this could be due to the fact these are longer rides, 3hr+ or it might be, randomly thinking, because it lives inside.

My theory is possibly the Bluetooth devices I have going on might be 'waking' up the powermeter? As it lives next to the mule bike on the wahoo kickr. And therefore its switching on and off much more than the other 2 stages which are stored in the garage / asgard.

Anyone else spot a trend with where the bike is located?

Which Tacx turbo, out of interest?

I couldn't remember, it's a Vortex, so about he cheapest one!

About batteries - I just got 16 x Panasonic CR2032's on amazon for £3.

My 4iii seems so far to be matching the 100hrs battery duration, but at that price I've no issue changing the batteries - the phone app connects and shows battery level immediately pre/post ride for education as to where it is.

Sadly, despite what I'd hoped, turbo training has not given me grand tour winning levels of power output, it just overstates things

A few weeks ago I was warming up at the gym and decided to use an exercise bike (sorry no idea which one). According to it I was happily sitting at 400W during my warm up (FTP is ~300W). It did make we wonder how many people use it and decide the TDF riders aren't trying very hard after all.

I guess the funny thing is that you don't actually know which is right. Perhaps my P1s underread by 5%, and my Tacx overreads by 5%, 10% difference, but neither is actually better or worse.

I'm pretty confident the Vortex is more like 20% over reading though!

Would be pretty typical of a vortex sadly 😉

Yep, I never expected any less, just amused by it!

Think Nath's Vortex was over reading similarly.

What is a typical inside / outside difference in power if it's the same meter? My bepro's read 15% higher for a hard effort outside (e.g a ten) than on the turbo (e.g. a 20 min ftp test). It's even higher outside on a big hill, prob 20% diff. I understand outside is often higher, but that sounds like quite a divergence.

It's interesting to me that you would expect pinning the number on, catching the minute man etc etc to give you a kick up the aris and add some watts. But mentally it actually feels the opposite way round to me - I can empty the tank dry, 100% arid nothing left, sat on the turbo staring at a number. This feels so much harder to achieve in the tens, but then my output is actually higher.

Im now using the same crank on both to road and turbo bike for comparative workouts.

At Gary - on a turbo you're supported, theres no wind resitiance, no mental presence of danger etc. Your legs might be working the same but the stress on the rest of your body os higher outside. As long as youre calibrating against temp changes, its just that you make more effort.

I did quite a bit of testing of my Vortex against my Powertap hub and then Favero pedals. My Vortex is actually not too far out when calibrated well, but it's very temperature sensitive. It's effective calibration can shift by 5% or more within a hard 5 minute interval as it gets hotter. So for some kinds of workout you can get it to be roughly right for the bits that matter, but in general it's not great. I've had mixed experiences with PowerMatch. I'm thinking of getting a Kickr, Neo or Direto for the winter...

About batteries - I just got 16 x Panasonic CR2032's on amazon for £3.

I just got 6 for £1.84 and now I feel ripped off!