It would appear I'm getting a 2nd gen replacement, hopefully all is good again.
Have to add that both Stages and Evans have been pretty spot on sorting it out.
Yep, ditto the excellent customer service at Merlin and the previous email support from Stages.
My Xt Gen 1 was just been replaced with a G2. Here's hoping it lasts longer!
I raced my G2 XTR stages through snow slop grim & everything else you could imagine on Sunday for 4hours at Gorrick never drop a beat. Massive clean of bike afterwards & connected up again no problem, checked again today & all good.
I raced my G2 XTR stages through snow slop grim & everything else you could imagine on Sunday for 4hours at Gorrick never drop a beat.
It actually dropped one out of every two beats 😉
Email confirmation from Evans yesterday that a G2 is in the post (hopefully arriving today).
As above, communication and service from both Evans and Stages has been excellent. Fingers crossed for the G2. Will update if necessary.
Those getting replacements, how many batteries did you try out before you warrantied? my housing door was very tight, I couldn't open it without using a ruler to get purchase on the little flap. Not sure how many replacements it will last....
Those getting replacements, how many batteries did you try out before you warrantied?
Original battery appeared to stop working after a few rides, 2 new replacements worked intermittently afterwards as well the original.
Appeared to be a connection issue rather than a battery drain...
Anyway I think I'm going to perhaps clear shrink wrap the crank arm except for the mounting points, just as an extra layer of defence against moisture. And visible too if any moisture gets trapped. The battery lid still uses a mega fine o-ring but the casing is indeed different. Whether it makes any difference or not remains to be seen.....
There is some good thinking on other threads that extra covers might actually make the problem worse as it will be harder for tiny amounts of moisture or condensation to escape again. Similarly, we noticed that people with generally no problems keep their bikes indoors while the majority with moisture issues tend to keep the bikes in a shed or garage, again where it may be harder for small amounts of moisture/ condensation to escape again. Far from conclusive and I'm sure it doesn't apply for everyone but an interesting thought I hadn't considered before.
The problems with my G1's (XTR) were a mixed bag of great battery life then the replacements bombed, warrantied one that lasted only a few weeks & one that was working ok but then put bike away over winter & when got out in warmer conditions it wouldn't work.
I have still got a G1 ultegra that is alive & kicking though even when I thought it was dead & its over 2yrs old now, during winter rides on the road I have cut out a section of old inner tube & slipped this over the crank & battery cover dunno if that helped ?
@mrblobby tbh the course was that technical I could hardly see the output except on the climbs & I forgot to turn the Garmin on so didn't get all data for performance management chart after :-/
DT78 - MemberThose getting replacements, how many batteries did you try out before you warrantied? my housing door was very tight, I couldn't open it without using a ruler to get purchase on the little flap. Not sure how many replacements it will last....
Original lasted several weeks and so did the replacement, after that battery life got worse and worse (my guess would be down to water ingress). Eventually a battery would not last 24 hours!
My battery door was very tight and I needed to push the tab with the tip of a screwdriver to rotate it. The door was quite dog eared by the time the thing finally gave up the ghost.
DanW - MemberThere is some good thinking on other threads that extra covers might actually make the problem worse as it will be harder for tiny amounts of moisture or condensation to escape again. Similarly, we noticed that people with generally no problems keep their bikes indoors while the majority with moisture issues tend to keep the bikes in a shed or garage, again where it may be harder for small amounts of moisture/ condensation to escape again. Far from conclusive and I'm sure it doesn't apply for everyone but an interesting thought I hadn't considered before
I would have thought that condensation would have been more of an issue on the bikes that are taken indoors particularly during the winter.
My XTR G1 stages lost battery about a month in - large amounts of moisture inside and a broken tab on the door. New door and some intermittant issues I now know were connection related as the battery was OK on reinsertion.
I used to cover mine, tried gaffa tape, electric tape and self amalgamating tape. I think they all made things worse. New door and scrupulous cleanliness of the gasket plus some gasket grease.
Can't have been that bad - I bought another.
I would have thought that condensation would have been more of an issue on the bikes that are taken indoors particularly during the winter.
I don't know, I can't quite get my head around it. My bike is dry after an hour or two inside so even if a little condensation formed then you'd think it would evaporate quite quickly.... 😕
The thing is though.....it's advertised as water resistant to 1m. (Can't remember the exact IP rating quoted). The instructions only advise not pointing a jet wash at it which I don't have and wouldn't do anyway.
So it just really shouldn't be that susceptible to moisture ingress. I have watches, phones, lights and numerous other electrical items that claim no water resistance yet I do not have to worry about moisture content in the air. No other power meter has such documented issues, often despite the same CR2032 power source. Moisture in the air should really not challenge a well designed o-ring seal design. Even then I don't keep my bike in a shed or a garage.
I love the concept of being able to swap between bikes and stick with Shimano cranks; am pleased I've had replacements and also dialogue with Stages but it's frustrating.
Fingers crossed the g2 is the one!
Got both, P2M is better. I might be selling my p2m Ultegra 6800 11 speed, will come with praxis chainrings x 2.
Anyone interested let me know.
cheers
everyones favourite vegan puts a bit of white lightning crystal grease on his
might be selling my p2m Ultegra 6800 11 speed
P2M Ultegra? You mean Stages Ultegra?
sorry it's a p2m and it replaced an ultegra 6800 11 speed.
why would you sell the better one?
Not going to be using it for a bit so might as well go. Both are great bits of kit only really if serious about training and getting fitter though. Oh and if you love the stats 🙂
So it just really shouldn't be that susceptible to moisture ingress
Can't disagree with that. Does seem like pot luck with Stages as I use my Nomad washer without caring too much about avoiding any one part of the bike and have used the nasty ol' jet washer at Ashton Court directly on the pod when I wasn't paying proper attention and never had any issues. Shouldn't happen and no-one seems to be able to nail down why some people have issues and others don't. Hey ho
sorry it's a p2m and it replaced an ultegra 6800 11 speed.
so which P2M is it?
Its the Type S Rotor 3D24, 110mm compact, 170mm crank, comes with everything needed incl. fitting tool, also praxis chainring compact and semi compacts.
If I were doing it again and could only get one it would be the P2M without a doubt. The Praxis rings are excellent and look better than Shimano 🙂
Does this look like it could be part of a power meter?
[img] 
?1[/img]
It's got a magnet on the frame which makes it likely. No other real clues I can see.
I think FDJ are supplied SRM, so could just be a glued in magnet ready for an SRM but with a different crankset fitted. It's in about the right spot for SRM. Would be a bit disappointing if Shimano were relying on fixing a magnet to the frame and not using a fancier accelerometer based design.
What's the source of the image?
Oh and new double sided Rotor INPower on the way too ([url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/rotor-2inpower-meter-to-offer-dual-sided-power-measurement-46183/ ]here[/url]).
I can't work out if there's something at 12 o clock, or if that's a decal. Agree it would be a shame if you had to stick magnets on, just as most have gone away from that.
At 12 o'clock there is a little plastic box you can see it a bit better in this photo [img] 
[/img] (although its at 10 here)
Shimano are apparently using FDJ to test something at the moment - a few riders still have their SRM but a couple dont and have this instead.
Definitely something there. Looks a bit different to the old spy shots of the Shimano one IIRC, quite a bit smaller. Could it be next gen SRM given that I think they are official FDJ suppliers?
A sky rider I occasionally ride with let slip theyre changing to a shimano power meter next season, that's what is probably been tested by the fdj rider
A shimano one could be very cool, especially if they can undercut other brands enough to get it on OEM.
especially if they can undercut other brands enough to get it on OEM.
😆
A sky rider I occasionally ride with let slip theyre changing to a shimano power meter next season, that's what is probably been tested by the fdj rider
Next season as in 2017?
Shimano filed patents in 2012 IIRC, so it's not that surprising. I can't see them going cheap though, reckon they'll aim for the premium end of the market, but happy to be proved wrong!
10% off INPower at Velotech, 3d+ upgrade can now be had for £450...that's £100 cheaper than a P2max, £150 if I go for the 3d30.
Think that's just sold it for me...
Single sided though for the INPower, so not like for like with the P2M. I'd pay the extra for the P2M.
Some cheap-ish Quarq over at PowerMeter24 ([url= https://www.powermeter24.com/uk/blowout/ ]here[/url]).
Yeah thought about that, not too fussed about dual sided so long as it's consistent and single sided will maybe compare more favourably with my Stages on the trainer.
Plus Velotech are based just down the road for ease of warranty etc. though hopefully not needed this time!
Very humbling FTP today comparing Stages and Powertap.....
Stages reading a fairly consistant 40-50W higher on the lactate session and overall 13.3% higher on the 30minute test.
I think my Stages is still useful as a training tool and for some elements of pacing but any willy waving over FTPs and W/kg I've ever done is duly rescinded 😳
Anyone fitted a 3D+ Inpower on a Bbright?
Manual suggests one 11.5mm spacer on drive side...doesn't sound right, that would push the chain line right out?
Spindle looks the same length of my existing 3DF....
Can't help you except to commiserate that Bbright is very frustrating. If I'd know how much of a pain it'd be I'd have seriously consider alternatives to Cervelo.
4iiii going dual sided and into the pro peloton...
http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/01/23/tdu-2016-tech-4iiii-power-meters-on-etixx-quick-step-team-bikes/
I can't see them going cheap though, reckon they'll aim for the premium end of the market, but happy to be proved wrong!
I duno, given the price of Dura Ace compared to other groupsets and chainsets (in the shops, no idea what RRP is), and shimano always say they go for reliable/dependable over 'premium' I'm not expecting it to be outrageous.
Groupsets:
DA £1000
SR £1500
Chainsets:
DA £250
FSA K-force £350
That and the size of their market share means they can recoup development costs over far more units. I predict it'll be an option on the next DA chainset and it'll be as widely taken up by OEM buyers as Di2 is.
DA £250
Heavily discounted online. £399 retail I think. Would be interesting to see if you'd get similar levels of discounting on a PM equipped chainset.
Comparing SRAM offerings, probably not. Looking at Merlin as they stock both, 200 quid for the Red chainset with ~50% off RRP and 1400 for the Quarq Red with a 10% discount off RRP (though you can get them a fair bit cheaper elsewhere.)
it'll be as widely taken up by OEM buyers as Di2 is
I'd be surprised. Depends on the price differential. Though I guess if you are the sort who would be buying a Dura Ace Di2 equipped bike and you are already splashing a fair bit of cash it may proportionally not be that much more.
cheap Rotor, 170mm 130mm BCD, 1 left
Got my P1s last week, seem good. Properly fit and forget, which is nice. On the turbo at least the Look cleats are fine, suspect on the road will be a bit different.
Now I've really got to do some riding. First proper FTP test in 2 years was a bit eye opening, plenty of work to do!
Sounds good. Sort of wish I'd gone for them or another set of Vectors for the turbo bike instead of the C1. Good news is Paligap have been pretty good, quick diagnosis, found found a fault and will be sending a replacement. Bad news is they have no stock of the 53/39 to send me and they're not sure when they'll be getting some 😕
During which time I've had to be swapping the vectors over between road and turbo, which usually means I can't be arsed to faff about with it before a ride and just do the turbo. Another 😕
Oh and a pretty good deal on those Rotors if they fit you and you just want LHS. Wonder if they are flogging them cheap now they have the INPower and 2INPower range? Can't see Rotor sticking with both long term. (Edit... ah, just checked their website and they don't even have the LT or the dual sided variant on there anymore, just the INPower, do guess they are dropping it.)
Yeah supply of the P1/C1 seems poor, and virtually zero discounting too, which I guess is related.
I'm a bit surprised with stock on the C1. I didn't think they'd be that popular and I've not heard of anyone else on the couple of forums I frequent who've brought a set. Oh well.
Have you compared the P1's to any other reference yet?
I've ran both my P1 pedals and Quarq power meters at the same time and the figures are pretty much identical. The only difference I've noticed is that every now and again I'll get a power spike up to about 1500 watts with the P1's which I never had with the Quarq. Hopefully it's something that they'll iron out with an update at some point.
From limited miles with the P1's and Look cleats on the road they seem to work ok together. As the Wellgo cleats were so cheap though I've just switched my shoes to them and kept Look cleats on my old shoes for commuting.
I was fairly lucky with the P1's, I managed to get a discount through Sigma Sport using their loyalty program and got a 12% discount which was fairly good considering the lack of stock everywhere.
Pioneer and SRM (finally) announce 30% price drops
Pioneer price drop only for single sided unfortunately, at least in the EU.
Replacement C1 should be here today, thanks to SigmaSport, they've been pretty good. Hopefully this one won't have the power discrepancy. Would be easier if it just let me set a slope. Seems odd that some PM's allow it and others don't as it can't be a difficult thing to implement.
Pioneer and SRM (finally) announce 30% price drops
Unfortunately the SRM discount appears to apply to the US store only. Just tried the XX1 and it's still 2.5k Euro......
Brim on Kickstarter...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brimbrothers/the-worlds-first-wearable-power-meter-for-cyclists
Looks quite interesting.
I bought a single sided BePro - the S. DCRainmaker liked the set he had and my experience so far has been positive. Super easy to fit and use. Early days with them yet. at £360 for the single side also good value I think.
Bloody low battery warning on my stages again. That's about 5 weeks / 25 hours. I'll be dropping them a line...
Oh dear.
Busy time in the low cost Power Meter market, what with [url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/02/22/watteam-powerbeat-stick-on-powermeter-finally-shipping-now-with-carbon-crank-compatibility/ ]Watteam shipping their PowerBeat[/url], and [url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/tempo-power-meter-212943 ]Tempo appearing on Kickstarter[/url].
Whilst LIMITS continue to talk shit!
Whilst LIMITS continue to talk shit!
It would be fair to say their credibility has been questioned 🙂
One of their race team popped up on the DCR comments the other day - some junior who tried to assuage concerns by saying he'd used one on a bike on a Kickr for a few seconds and it was all good. Why they didn't use a 'dumb' trainer for such an event I don't know.
Certainly interested to see how it goes!
any cheap Shimano MTB Stages anywhere?
liking the look of the powerbeat, removable and rechargable can it be easily swapped between cranks? That tempo looks like a stages rip off.
Had an issue at a time trial yesterday where the G2 stages kept returning a calibration value of zero. I had to remove the battery and it sorted itself out.
I have just checked the stages website and there have been two firmware updates so far this year (the last update was in April 2015) one of which is to do with calibration.
Worth updating if you have not already done so:
Dual sided Rotor InPower...
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/rotor-2inpower-meter-spec-pricing-release-date-46532/
1500 euros though.
I bought a Rotor 3d from velo Perso last year
[url= http://www.velo-perso.com/en/power-meter/164-rotor-3d-power-crank-powermeter.html?search_query=rotor+power&results=19#/25-arm_length-compact_170 ]here[/url]
Pleased with it, been reliable so far.
Baz
You can pick up a relative bargain on the old ones right now as I think they've stopped selling them.
Personally I would wait to see if these are any good.....far better idea than having crank arm, BB or pedal based meters:
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/rpm2-launches-footbed-based-power-meter-46485/
Not a great deal of love on this thread for Garmin Vectors, any reason why?
Also interested in the single arm Pioneer jobby but have seen few real world reviews.
I think they've all got their foibles or issues. Depends what you're happy to put up with I suppose and/or how much you can afford to spend.
far better idea than having crank arm, BB or pedal based meters
Good idea in theory but the technology isn't there to make them very accurate unfortunately. Clinical insole force measurement is ok(ish) but these in the link are not designed as a "power meter" or even high quality pressure measurement, more as an affordable L/R comparison tool for running and gym style exercises. I can't see this style PM becoming a serious option any time soon but am happy to be proved wrong. Even if they do revolutionize insole force measurements, you still have the issues like a higher stack height and getting custom fits accounted for. No one approach is perfect, even if the measurement system itself were to be perfect. If we are talking about making a conceptual choice, I'd still go for crank/ spider based personally even if insoles did prove to be a reliable and accurate approach... maybe pedals even if it becomes possible to miniaturise tri-axial force pedals to satisfy unnecessary geeky urges 🙂
Not a great deal of love on this thread for Garmin Vectors, any reason why?
Really? Like mine. Not had any problems. Started with single sided then upgraded to dual sided.
You do need to torque them up properly when installing and that's sometimes seen as a negative. I don't swap them between bikes so not really a problem for me.
They've been accurate (compared to my other PM's) and consistent. Battery life is good. You can also set a scaling factor which can be useful, especially if you just have the single sided.
I've not had any issues with the firmware either.
Little update on my stages battery life, so far I've been stubbornly refusing to replace the battery on the winter bike, it flashed up warnings after less than 30hrs use. So far I've ridden for approx. another 20hours since the first warning, so wondering if it is a bug somewhere that is triggering the message rather than actual battery consumption. I'm going to keep going till it actually dies this time rather than replace. The message is super annoying, it pops up on the garmin after 10-15mins riding usually and has to be dismissed, something hard to do when riding with thick gloves.
Also I tried to do the latest firmware update, and it failed, I'm wondering if this is linked to the low battery warning. Going to try on the summer bikes stages later which has got a recent new battery
Otherwise the power numbers are still the same...
Going to pick up a Powerpod in the US next month. I like the Physics, obviously, and the ability to move between bikes. Will compare with my Stages and PowerCal. Just need more head units! Actually the PowerPod stores power as well as CdA for each ride.
Still like the P1's but £208 for a powerpod is a reasonable price.
How do you find the powercal tired?
Thinking vabout one myself for ironman pacing in the summer. Appreciate they don't do instantaneous power but heard they are good for 5 min average power which I suspect would be fine for a steady effort, flat 180km TT...
Interesting DT78. I have the same thing but only since the firmware update. Stages app suggests almost full battery and Garmin is flashing up a low battery warning at the start of every ride.
I like the Powercal. I have a year's worth of data for rides from commuting to Ride London to 100 km road racing. On steady-state efforts it is very good. It also confirms when a race has been very hard. I don't use it for pacing anything except time trials, where heart rate is as good.
In races I don't look at power.
Hi all. Sorry to butt in.
I've been after a power meter for a while but funds have prevented me from taking the plunge.
I have recently been offered a Powertap G3 wheel set (H+ Archetypes and a DT Swiss 240 front hub) for £350 in Good condition.
It's from a guy in my club so I know they have been looked after.
The Powertap Hubs have always appealed to me as they seem easy to use and reliable.
Is there any reason not to go for it?
G3s are great in my experience. Only problems is upkeep can be an issue. If it has been looked after then hopefully you'll be okay.
Before you buy check the calibration number via a Garmin. I think 512 +/-20 was acceptable but I could be wrong so you should double check that.
Also spin the axle and see how the bearings feel - they can be a weak point, especially if it's just had a full winters use.
And 350 for the wheelset seems like a very reasonable price!
So, whilst this thread is still going, i've just replaced the battery on my Stages G2 for the first time. So that's about 2months use, or a generous estimate of about 100hrs riding. Won't mind if I get the same again - I'm two rides in so we'll see
I quite fancy the P1 pedals, but I am put off by the non Keo cleats.
Does anyone know what other pedals fit the P1 cleats? I don't want to always have to use the P1s on each bike, and swapping cleats frequently is a pain too.