Well more that no one has quite worked out what to do with the data! Wattbike's been making good money off of that for years 🙂
Sort of. They've been displaying the information for years, but it's still not a metric they specifically say you should train for (in terms of the stroke analysis), more a by-product of getting stronger.
Does anyone know of anywhere with stock of the Powertap P1's?
From looking around so far I can only find powermeter24.com with any stock.
Beyond Mountain Bikes in Surrey have a couple of pairs - 01483 267676, talk to Jackie and say Nick mentioned it if you ring them.
A 4iiii review over at [url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/12/4iiii-precision-review.html ]dcrainmaker[/url].
[b]bumpy - Member[/b]
both of which have different BB's so a crank based unit is a non-starter.
What are the BB's?
The 4iiii looked like such a great option, just that bit less exciting now you have to send your cranks away and its LH only (even if just for now).
2 months on my Stages now and it's doing the will it/won't it thing. Takes a few re-seats to get it up and running, bit of a pain when you're kitted up and trying to get out in the morning.
The hard reset thing works but each time I do it I have to go through the firmware update. Or at least the iOS app launches it anyway.
Will soldier on for a bit and see how it goes.
Torn between Power2Max and INPower for the summer bike...
Haze, have you checked the battery contact (the gold circular tab in the centre) isn't pressed flat down? Stages HQ suggested to me this might need tweaking up slightly with a thin blade, so that battery contact is more reliable. Or am I missing something in your description?
Yeah I read that somewhere, something like lift them to 2 to 3mm?
They're not flat but nothing like 3mm either, I've opened a support ticket with Stages to see what they say.
Happy to give them a lift but thought I'd better wait for their instruction first (in case of warranty etc).
barrykellett - Member
bumpy - Member
both of which have different BB's so a crank based unit is a non-starter.
What are the BB's?
One bike is a BB90 and the other is GXP.
In the end I decided on a set of Powertap P1's and I'm pretty happy with them so far.
If anyone else is considering P1's then they might be interested to know that they do work with Keo cleats but they feel a little loose, even fairly new cleats.
The Powertap cleats that are about £15 a set are actually Wellgo RC7 cleats that can be found for about £7 a set.
Do those cleats work with Keos, out of interest?
Infocrank..........
Left/right so doesnt have to guess what one leg is doing
Waterproof
No recalibrating
An instrument, not a power meter. Designed from the strain gauges up into their own crank design
0.2% error - most others are 2%+
Just about to go magnetless on January firmware update
Just got BC approval too......
Too expensive for my money, even with the latest price drops.
Do those cleats work with Keos, out of interest?
Yes, the Wellgo/Powertap cleats seem to work perfectly well with the Keo pedals.
Just got BC approval too......
Think all that means is they've done a deal to supply BC with units. Looks like they are doing ~20% off for BC members too. Still 960 quid.
An instrument, not a power meter
How's that Kool-Aid?
An instrument, not a power meter
Easy to get confused...
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😆
I just ignored the bollocks, that is a gem!
mtbtomo - Member
have you checked the battery contact (the gold circular tab in the centre) isn't pressed flat down? Stages HQ suggested to me this might need tweaking up slightly with a thin blade, so that battery contact is more reliable
They've just been in touch to suggest exactly that, lift one side so the whole thing is at about 30° - I previously thought each of the 3 small tabs would need tweaking rather than the whole disc.
It makes sense since it's an intermittent problem and affects both Ant+ and Bluetooth connections.
Have given it a go anyway...
Just a thought - anyone interested in a new, unused Powertap GS built on Pacenti SL23 rim with Sapim CX-RAY spokes? I built it up then broke my spine, so won't be needing such a thing for a while. I got the hub for a bargain £399, rim and spokes were about another 135. If anyone wants it for 400 then let me know. I hadn't quite done a final true so should probably budget for that.
Gray. Firstly sorry to hear about your accident, I hope you make a swift recovery.
Secondly I'm interested in your PowerTap wheel. Could you send me pictures?
Best
Ackie
Hi Ackie, I will be able to in a few days (should have thought of that before posting I guess!). Am currently rather immobile in hospital. One other thing I should mention - it's currently got a Campagnolo freehub, not sure how much a Shimano one would be if you need it.
No worries. Yes I'll need shimano. What is the spoke count BTW. I hope you get back on your feet soon 🙂
I'll email you on the address in your profile - feels like I've hijacked this one a bit. But 24 spokes.
As this seems to have become the general pm discussion thread...
I have a power2max on the road bike and I use it a lot during the winter for turbo work on TrainerRoad. I like it a lot and being in Canada almost all of my riding in winter (bar some social fat biking) is turbo based.
I'm mulling over getting a 4i for the mountain bike for the summer (Sweamrs coach who lives in the same town as 4i has a deal with them) I'm just curious what people who have a power meter on the mountain bike actually use them for?
If I'm just riding the bike and not doing specific workouts then is the main benefit that TSS calculated from power is "better" then TSS calculated from HR? If that's the case how much "better" is it?
Thoughts and comments appreciated.
Stages is going back, it's gotten steadily worse since the fix recommended by Stages. It now requires a reseat every time to wake it up and for the first time tonight it lost connection during a session.
So assuming I'm offered a replacement and before I accept one, is this a common issue...and is it fixed on the second gen models (mine's a first gen from 2015)?
My son's stages has to go back as well. It had been draining batteries for a past time (after initially having no problems with it) and finally gave up the ghost over Christmas, I suspect water ingress led to the decline.
If I'm just riding the bike and not doing specific workouts then is the main benefit that TSS calculated from power is "better" then TSS calculated from HR? If that's the case how much "better" is it?
That's an unanswerable question and dependent entirely on the merit you place on TSS. WKO wouldn't calculate TSS on anything but power. I'd suggest if all you want is some better TSS numbers that a PowerCal would be a more sensible choice.
My stages is asking for a new battery, not entirely sure how many hours with out looking back but does seem quicker than I expected at less than 4 months on the Sunday bike, also now seems to be reading less than the kickr whereas back in November they tracked within a few watts of each other. I'll try a new battery and see how I get on. The other stages on the winter bike is a couple of months newer but I would have thought had more hours and definitely more wet rides.
If I'm just riding the bike and not doing specific workouts then is the main benefit that TSS calculated from power is "better" then TSS calculated from HR? If that's the case how much "better" is it?
I've not gone one on an mtb but probably would if I trained and raced on it more. Accurate TSS is one thing. TSShr usually comes out a bit low for a hard mtb ride. Think it's also useful post ride/race for analysis in understanding the demands of the activity, e.g. max power for various durations and the frequency of those efforts. Probably quite handy to know to help with training (e.g. coming up with turbo intervals.)
Haven't seen any battery drain as yet (just under 3 months old).
Problem seems to be with the negative terminal squashing flat, but I shouldn't need to have to tweak it up to get the thing to work. Have tried to live with it but if it's going to start powering off mid-ride then I'm not interested.
Not to mention it's a pita when I'm running late for a ride on a morning.
I use a PM on the MTB for specific off-road interval sessions, tracking power on races (for analysis rather than in race) and find it useful for that. If I only had one I would put it on the road bike though.
I had to tweak the negative terminal on one of the Stages I had, but it only needed doing once.
I've justed returned the 4th replacement I've had. It had the latest firmware on it. The first battery out of the box lasted about 3 months (about 100 hours riding) and then the next battery only a week. And so on and so on. Now the batery is only lasting 24 hours, goes dead from one session to the next. I occasionally get two sessions out of it.
It is powering down/stops transmitting after a period of inactivity and comes to life again with motion. But leave it for 24 hours and it won't reawaken unless I put a fresh battery in. Then its fine again....for 24hours or so.... I've tried Duracell, Panasonic, Maxell, cheapo pound shop batteries and no difference.
If someone could just tell me what I'm doing wrong I'd be chuffed but who knows....
mtbtomo - MemberI had to tweak the negative terminal on one of the Stages I had, but it only needed doing once.
I've justed returned the 4th replacement I've had. It had the latest firmware on it. The first battery out of the box lasted about 3 months (about 100 hours riding) and then the next battery only a week. And so on and so on. Now the batery is only lasting 24 hours, goes dead from one session to the next. I occasionally get two sessions out of it.
It is powering down/stops transmitting after a period of inactivity and comes to life again with motion. But leave it for 24 hours and it won't reawaken unless I put a fresh battery in. Then its fine again....for 24hours or so.... I've tried Duracell, Panasonic, Maxell, cheapo pound shop batteries and no difference.
If someone could just tell me what I'm doing wrong I'd be chuffed but who knows....
Exactly the same symptons as mine. I suspect it is water ingress.
I removed the battery cover just before sending it back and there was a drop of water on the battery. I had checked for ingress when it started playing up but none was evident.
Apparently the Mk2 is identical (pcbs, strain gauges, software etc) apart from the plastic housing - that tells me something!
Ive just put my first new battery in (about 3 months of inside 'turbo' use) so no water
I have been out in some pretty wet weather, but suspecting water ingress, I've taken the crank off, battery and cover off and had it in a warm room each time to ensure it was dried out. Have to say, it didn't look like there was any moisture inide the unit anyway even after a wet session.
Oh and I went out in the wet on the first battery and that didn't affect it then.
I was wondering if the mk2 was improved but sounds like it isn't eskay.
Has anyone at all had more than one battery that has lasted anywhere close to the stated 200hrs. [b]And[/b] been out in the wet weather? Or at least not changing one battery every week?
This is pretty disappointing to read since I believed the propaganda that the G2 Stages would fix the associated problems with the ingress of water. Is the consensus that you should steer clear of the Stages for your mountain bike?
I was just about to buy one too.
Matt
Yep, I was debating a second one for the mtb. Must be mad!
Bugger, I was going to get one. I've heard of people covering them with electrical tape to get a seal before hitting the trails but that is a bit rubbish since they're still a fair amount of dosh.
Matt
Just to clarify, my problems are with a G1. I believe the redesigned G2 housing addressed weaknesses in the housing design.
Who said the mk2 casing addresses the issue eskay? (Since your earlier post which said they hadn't addressed the issue)
I don't quite understand how the first battery can last 2-3 months and then it deteriorates so rapidly. You have to remove the plastic tab from under the battery cover when you first get them so its not like you haven't already broken any factory seal from the moment you first use them. They should be as water proof with the second battery as with the first?
And I haven't seen any evidence of water ingress in mine despite taking precautions to dry them out.
If it is a water ingress issue, then I can't believe that every single unit that has been out in British weather hasn't been returned. Are they fit for purpose in British conditions?
Its just a bit annoying to be without it.
Anyone had a g1 replaced recently under warranty? Just wondering if they are likely to replace with a g2 unit or a new g1?
Yes my gen 1 was replaced with gen 2 a few weeks ago.
I've got my G1 in at the shop now, so I'll see what happens.....
Is the consensus that you should steer clear of the Stages for your mountain bike?
I've got an SRAM X9 Stages that has never caused me issues, although its not actually turned a pedal since April 2015, i should really check its ok, bought in March 2014
Haha! So it was fine for at least a month. Not convinced it's a long term review 😉
in before the edit window 😀
quick look at veloviewer says i did about 2500-3000km on that bike in that time frame, not a huge amount i guess, but apart from the odd flat battery, no issues,
In wet weather dirtyrider?
mtbtomo - Member
Who said the mk2 casing addresses the issue eskay? (Since your earlier post which said they hadn't addressed the issue)
Apologies, I think my earlier post was unclear.
What I was trying to say was that there was clearly a flaw in the original plastics and that is why the G2 is identical in every way except for the plastic housing (meaning that the technology is sound but the enclosure on G1 was not).
There is a reference on the Stages website when suffering battery problems to check for water ingress, so it must be a know problem.
In wet weather dirtyrider?
quite a lot yer, including wet peaks rides when even if its dry you still get rivers running down some trails, 2015 NPS at Sherwood was particularly wet, i jet wash it occasionally of course i don't point it at the cranks,
bikes kept inside the house though so its never cold/damp for long periods, do wonder if this makes a difference
So my newer stages was dead when I tried to use it today. Total of 28hrs use, last month / 7 hours have been indoors so no ingress possible. No warning message about getting low as per my older one on the best bike. New battery and garmin picks it up fine.
Quite grumpy. Should I be talking to their warranty dept? That's not even vaguely close to 200hrs. Going to work out other units hours now.
31.5hrs use on the 4 month old unit which is warning of low battery, and 28hrs on the newer 2 month old unit. Not good really is it.
Hmm no. I think I change the battery on my old Powertap hub on the turbo bike maybe once a year if that. Vector pedal batteries seem to last well too, at least 6 months. They get about 10 hours use a week across the two.
So I've ordered some P1s, should be here in the next week or two. See how battery life is on those!
Big proper batteries in them! Be interesting to see how they last.
Yeah definitely. I don't think claimed life is anything special, as I recall. Will probably use rechargeables for convenience, so likely sacrifice a bit of life anyway.
P1's claim about 60 hours. But at least it looks like the battery cover is substantial and designed to be removed.
The Stages cover uses plastic tabs and every time I have to remove it, I'm fearful I'll damage it.
I'd be pleased to get even 60 hours regularly out of my Stages! With 4 replacements in about a year of ownership, at what point can I claim "not fit for purpose" and get my money back?
What is the warranty period on Stages?
Anyone know if the G2 Stages changes the negative terminal at all, or presses the battery firmer against it?
From what I have read, the pcb is the same. Anyone able to confirm that? The battery pick up on the pcb is a bit flimsy on the G1.
I think good quality genuine (there are a lot of fakes around) batteries may improve run time.
My G1 has gone back today with battery issues. Fingers crossed the G2 will be better.
Dumb question (as I can't remember) were the stages shipped with an original battery?
And for those getting greater than 30hrs what batteries are they using? What are reputable and where to buy (heard of amazon fakes)
I've been using Panasonic which I bought as a multipack from amazon...
They were shipped with a battery but I do not know what make.
A colleague who had his several months before me has found Duracell to be the best.
I order a two cell pack from Amazon for about £3.50, there were pack of 10 on there for less (which I assume to be suspect). Having said that, my PM was on its last legs and the Duracell only lasted 24hrs!).
I made sure that the order was directly from Amazon and not a reseller fulfilled by Amazon. If I had not been ordering something else I would have gone to my local Maplin and bought a battery that I could trust. It seems crazy to stick a dodgy 50p cell in a piece of kit that cost £400+.
Mine shipped with an Energizer battery
I always use Duracell off the shelf from Tescos
Reason I asked was the one I removed from my dead stages was a Panasonic, looked exactly the same as my spares, I would have installed whatever battery came with it, so mine was shipped with a Panasonic. Good news is, it was still working this lunchtime will see how long this one last.
Next I'll try the most expensive one I can find in a supermarket and see how long it lasts.
I've just started using my G2 ultegra outside as my other G1 seems to have died (it is over 2yrs old & never had a problem with it). I have been using G2 indoors for a few months and they do seem like a different beast to G1's . If I go anywhere near a G2 with my Garmin turned on it picks it up immediately & it seems to switch itself off if I don't start peddling within about 5 mins, this never ever happened with a G1. The battery door on a G2 is completely different the battery fits into the cover first as opposed to the unit which is what u did with G1's.
Trying a hard reset in my G1 to see if I can get some life back in it.
[edit] My G1 that I thought was dead has come back to to life, done a hard reset new battery new cover new O ring & it paired up immediately. Firmware up to date & calibration all good, let's see how long it lasts :-/ ??
All the ones I've had have come with a Panasonic battery. The shop gave me a Duracell one to try, and I've had Energizer batteries from the supermarket, Duracell, Panasonic, Maxell from the web and also batteries from the pound shop. Seems the Energizer ones and sometimes the pound shop batteries lasted the best. The Duracell ones seem to have consistently been worst, a single session out of them across most of the different replacements I've had.
On the replacement I had before this one, I was sent a couple of new battery covers to try - since battery covers out of tolerance was cited as a possible problem. Before I took this last one back, I thought I'd try one of these replacement covers. It wouldn't even close - it was too tight. This was supposed to be an in-tolerance cover.
They really do sound pretty shit. Which is a shame.
It wouldn't even close - it was too tight. This was supposed to be an in-tolerance cover.
The door on mine was very tight, I had to use a tool to rotate the door.
Cover was tight on mine too, assumed it was supposed to be that way but a bit of a pain when you have to reseat the battery every other use!
A pretty good discount on a set of P1's. I got my C1 for less than the discount price (though they have gone back to Paligap now.)
What went wrong with the C1?
I can't see the trade-in price here - P1 showing as 999 reduced to 999... could be my phone being weird. How much are they going for?
Ah I see - it's listed in the form. 799 isn't bad. Shame I don't have something knackered and old to trade in! Most would be worth more than 200 anyway I'd have thought. Might get some in the US in the summer. Won't be needing anything until next autumn, and prices may have dipped a bit more by then anyway.
What went wrong with the C1?
Over-reading out of the box by about 20 watts compared to my other 3 PM's. Sent back to Sigma to send back to Paligap for a checkup.
My G1 stages that was showing all the death signs still alive 🙂 TBH I've only had a problem with 1 stages road crank, it's an XTR one that has been poor for me but that has now be warrantied to a G2 & should weather permitting see its first outing at Gorrick this weekend. If it's a shit fest I'm on the single speed though 🙂
So I've just had a G2 version to replace the G1. They don't make the G1 any more - not that I'd want one!
Anyway I think I'm going to perhaps clear shrink wrap the crank arm except for the mounting points, just as an extra layer of defence against moisture. And visible too if any moisture gets trapped. The battery lid still uses a mega fine o-ring but the casing is indeed different. Whether it makes any difference or not remains to be seen.....
Quarq Riken R at Planet X for £450 with discount code if anyone fancies a cheap reliable PM.