[Closed] Which needs stronger wheels suspension or rigid?

In my experience I would say suspension wheels need to be stronger. I have damaged alot more rims...popped spokes etc on full susser because of extra speed...

I have often wondered about this.

Its instinctive to think that the suspension absorbs the punishment. But logic says since the wheels are unsprung then they suffer just the same (and worse since you're hitting stuff harder).

But Im not happy with that either - I cant help feeling that wheels feel less of an impact on square edge hits since the wheel can travel up and over the obstacle. But then of course the wheel travels up and over the object on a hard tail too and maybe its just my position on the comfortable opposite end of the spring which deludes me into thinking the shock is any different for the poor old wheel....

Basically I dont know

Basically I dont know

me neither but when has that ever stopped blokes discussing stuff 🙂

But logic says since the wheels are unsprung then they suffer just the same

No it doesnt

But logic says since the wheels are unsprung then they suffer just the same

Hmm, I'm not so sure that's logical.

I would say a suspension bike cushions the blow when compared to the same impact on a rigid bike. That said, people [b][i]might[/i][/b] ride harder on a full susser so when line choice goes wrong and a big impact is the result the force the wheel is exposed to [b][i]might[/i][/b] be more.

Difficult say either way.

No it doesnt

are you going to expand on that then - perhaps even provide some sort of counter argument. Or should we all just submit to your superior intellect?

Peak impact force is lessened by the suspension.

I would say hardtail for drops and large hits as you are heavier on the back end.

For general riding though I find I carry more speed and tend to throw the bike around a bit more when I have the suspension to help compensate for my lack of skill meaning that the rims probably take a bit more of a beating.

I find I pinch less on the back on my hardtail than mates on fs travelling the same speed cos I am awesomz or maybe just ride lighter cos I have to...

After a bit of a thought experiment.......

So your wheel hits a bump...its happened to us all at some time or another.
The energy from the impact has to go somewhere. On a rigid bike the energy goes to accelerating the bike upwards. This then becomes potential energy (what goes up must come down).
If you have suspension most of the energy goes to compressing the spring. The energy is stored in the spring before releasing it by accelerating the wheel downwards.
In both cases the same amount of energy is transmitted through the wheel. But I can think of 2 extra factors at play here with suspension....
Firstly, the suspension has compression and rebound damping which has the effect of slowing down the movement of the wheel over the bump. This means that the energy is dissipated over a greater period of time so the peak force felt by the wheel will be reduced (a curve rather than a spike) compared to a none suspended wheel.
Secondly, Since the rider is isolated from the impacts and has better traction he/she will be able to ride faster than on a rigid bike - speed limited only by skill and nerve. The impacts will be greater and therefore the peak forces increased accordingly.

So I suppose it boils down to how hard you ride - if your a bit of a mincer then full suss will mean you can get away with lighter wheels where as if your a bit of a nut job then you will probably need burlier ones. For the vast majority of us the 2 factors cancel each other out.

I'm going to vote for: Same.

if your a bit of a mincer then full suss will mean you can get away with lighter wheels

ie the extra[b]lite[/b]* philosophy

For the vast majority of us the 2 factors cancel each other out.

think you may be right
*did a bit of googling, [url= ]F1 was the frame[/url] I was thinking of, can't remember what mag did a review of it that I read.

I'm living the test scenario at the moment.
Took all the kit off my Five and transplanted to a 456 evo ti.

Destroyed the rear tyre on the first outing!
For some reason I'd talked myself into fitting a single ply tubeless on Flow EX.
Dual ply Minion now back on and life is good again.

....so I'm going to suggest that (unless you're sat on the saddle) there's probably fairly little to separate wheel strength required for FS and HT. What you're hitting and how fast you hit it probably have much greater significance.

[edit] wot ndt said much more eloquently [/edit]

For the vast majority of us the 2 factors cancel each other out.

We don't know, that's just a guess. All we can say is the wheels we use are mostly strong enough!

If you rode at the same speed in the same style then the bike with suspension would need less strong wheels. However FS bikes allow us to do stupid things, at stupid speeds, with little skill and therefore we need stronger wheels.

All we can say is the wheels we use are mostly strong enough!

good point I've pringled a wheel pulling silly bugger skids but I've never destroyed or tacoed a wheel from normal riding (tho I did once see my mate destroy a front wheel, wasn't pretty) but I've no idea how much margin for error/tolerance there is with standard wheels, maybe there's scope for knocking a whole bunch of weight off, would shorten the lifespan no doubt, but that doesn't matter to some. I'm reminded of some superlight ritchey frames (tange tubing?) which reputedly were raced once then thrown away.

Something else worth considering....

A well built bike wheel is incredibly strong for its weight if its used as intended (i.e. if you keep it rubber side down). This is because all the strength of the wheel is in the spokes and its designed to take great vertical loading. Its possible (and I have) ridden the lightest XC mincer wheels down full on DH courses on a number of occasions. No problems at all.

The problems only come when you crash, or land a jump at a funny angle(as I do frequently)- as more than likely you will end up putting large side loads on the wheels. In this direction the spokes have little strength and you are reliant on the strength of the rim itself. The lighter and weaker the rim the greater the chance of having it pringled.

Crashing on a full suss usually involves greater speeds and consequently you need tougher rims to avoid pringlisation.

Stronger rims for rigid imo, here's my working. Yes you're generally slower on a rigid and probably not riding as uber-gnar trails, but, it's the unexpected whack that generally gets my wheels- the bad line, the manual you **** up, the rock you didn't think was sticking up. And you hit those at pretty much the same speed on a rigid as you didn't plan to hit them at all in either case.

In my experience fs are tougher on wheels/rims&spokes but rigid are tougher for hubs/bearings