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For a new 29er boost wheelset build I have ordered a DT swiss XM481 rim for the front and a XM421 rim for the rear. I am yet to buy the spokes and I now realise it is a PITA to find the spokes and nipples that I want.
I am considering using DT comp race, DT revolution, Sapim d-light or spaim lasers. I think the revs and lasers may be a bit flexible as they are both 1.5mm in the middle. I am light and don't tend to break rims or spokes so generally can get away with lighter components. 1) Has any one built up 32hole boost 29er wheels using revs or spaim lasers and are they stiff enough for trail riding?
Using the DT swiss spoke calculator shows with Competition Race Spokes (2.0/1.6) and standard brass 2.0/14mm nipples that I need 289, 293, 296 and 295 mm spokes. I want 64 spokes + 4 spares so 68 in total. On actionsports.de each spoke is 1.1euro so 68 spokes will be 85 euros (included delivery) which is about £75. Sapim D lights are 1 euro each so for the number of spokes would be about £70. 2)Can I get these cheaper in the UK as they are expensive?
I have also found these ACI spokes https://www.totalcycling.com/en/ACI-Alpina-F1-Stainless-Steel-Double-Butted-Spoke/m-22613.aspx which have a 2.0mm head and threaded end with 1.7mm butted middle section. These will cost £27.47 for 68 including delivery at 2.99 and it comes with a brass nipple as well.
3)Is there any significant difference in quality between the ACI spokes at the DTs/sapims as given the cost I am favouring the ACIs?
4)Are there any other makes of spoke with a similar weight that I could use?
5)This may be a silly question but are spoke heads on spokes all the same as I want it to be compatible with a DT swiss hub for J bend spokes?
Cheers
The 481s come with DT Squorx nipples and washers, IIRC. That might affect your choice of spoke, if you intend to use them
Absolutely any spokes will work fine, you are overthinking.
I haven't decided whether to use the squorx nipples or buy brass ones for both wheels. Have the aluminium nipples improved much? I suspect that I will still be better with brass nipples.
Yes I know I am overthinking it a bit but I like fast reponsive wheels on my bike.
Spoke choose among those you have mentioned will not be noticeable as far as fast and responsive goes.
Unless you ride in a desert or like wheel building, avoid aluminium nipples
Comp Race are great. They're also almost impossible to google for.
I like Sapim Lasers for lightweight- they're literally the CX-Ray, but with less forging (they squish a Laser blank to make a flat CX Ray). They're not as strong as a result but I've never had any issues. It's a 2-1.5-2 spoke so way on the light side but the only ones I've ever broken, broke in the 2mm sections anyway so what the heck. And they're pretty cheap.
In an ideal world I reckon it'd make more sense to go with less spokes over lighter spokes. But in practice, 32h is such a standard that I'd rather stick with it.
R2 bike sell Sapim D Lights which seem to be super tough on my Newmnen wheels
In an ideal world I reckon it’d make more sense to go with less spokes over lighter spokes.
Looked into the engineering on this, more spokes is always better (within reason) for strength/weight, but they don't make enough weight/guage variants for this to work.
Comps for all factory 1501 wheels so DT'S choice.
Comp race if you can find them for weight but d-lights are much more available. I've used jpracingbike for sapim successfully in the past.
https://www.spokesfromryan.com/product/sapim-d-light-silver/
D-lights for 49p each without nipples.
Last build I used heavier gauge spokes in the rear drive side, eg 2.0/1.8 on the drive side, d-lights on the nds.
I’ve built wheels with Revs, Lasers, CX-rays and D-lights. Of them all D-lights are the easiest to build with, they don’t twist up, they’re cheap and strong and only give away about 30g per wheelset.
D-lights all the way.
I'd go with DT comp's from Rose, £6.17 for 20 (i.e. 1 side plus 4 spares).
You could go with DT Rev's or Comp Race and I think they'd be fine as long as you're light. But personally I've never used them on anything other than road bikes. I was planning on using them on the non-drive side of my next MTB wheels though as they should even out the strain across both sides as my last few wheels have been a PITA for low spoke tensions there (Stans rims).
Unless you deliberately want to induce some flex into the wheels I'd stick with tried and tested 2.0/1.8mm spokes.
Another d-lite builder here. Build perfectly well and seem less brittle than the DTsupercopms I used to use
I haven’t decided whether to use the squorx nipples or buy brass ones for both wheels. Have the aluminium nipples improved much? I suspect that I will still be better with brass nipples.
I've built a couple of wheelsets with the supplied ali squorx nipples. One set is a year old, no cracked or broken nipples, other set is a few rides in. Worth buying the DT spoke key as its a better fit.
https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC399107/dt-swiss-multi-spoke-tool
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-classic-dt-nipple-wrench-502113?currency=3&delivery_country=190&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLubyJCf6AIVxbHtCh36CQV5EAQYBCABEgLgR_D_BwE
I use a squorx driver for building the wheels as I find its a lot quicker and more accurate.
Cheers folks, I have had a quick look at Ryan's spokes and rose bikes and the prices for 68 spokes are:
Lasers in silver at Ryans = £41
D-Lights in silver at Ryans =£33
DT Comps in silver at Rose =£30
I am going to get the D-Lights as they are cheap enough at 49p each and will be slightly stronger than the comp races or lasers. I am not keen on silver spokes but I don't want to pay £66 for black ones.
What is the best spoke calculator to use as the Dtswiss one only has DT swiss spokes?
Both the XM 421 and XM 481 have come with 2 x 15mm DT swiss alloy nipples. If I order the brass nipples from Ryans there is a choice of 12, 14 and 16mm. Does it really matter which length I get or would the 12mm nipples make the wheel building a bit more awkward?
Cheers
DT'S calc for sure... Spokes are length only, you can choose from their spokes to get a total build weight..
There might be some used thread length differences between DT and sapim, but this might be more a nipple concern.
Okay thanks. The DT calc changes the spooke length by a mm or so depending on which spoke and nipple I select. If I pick standard 2.0/14mm brass nipples and comp race 2.0/1.6 spokes which are close to the D-lights, I get recommended lengths of front = 289 and 293 and rear = 291 and 291mm. Ryans only has even spoke lgnths ie 288 290 etc. Does it matter if the length is out by 1mm or so. i.e should I be trying to buy the exact recommended length?
Spokes are only sold in even lengths. Some places will trim and thread spokes to length for an extra fee. The tool to do this is expensive so that is reflected in the price. The decision to round up or down to the even length depends on the actual length the spoke calculator gives you.
i may be wrong, but I believe the rims you have need to be built with squorox nipples.
Okay thanks I will phone the wheelbuilder at Ryans tomorrow to check what lengths I need and if I have to use the DT supplied nipples. From searching onine it seems a few people have been breaking them so I really prefer brass nipples.
Perhaps it’s the washers that are essential, rather than the nipples. I’d be interested in what your builder has to say
good point on the phr washers.. these could be linked to the squorx nipples in the calculator rather than the rim itself.
just looked and squorx std nips are listed at 15mm.. this could be your calc discrepancy when switching to brass..
As far as broken alloy squorx? really.. every XR/XM/EX 1501 is built with these nipples and they are widely rated as the best factory wheels out there so I wouldn't get too hung up on brass..
The PHR washers are essential. dont skip these.
If you switch to brass nipples, make sure they are the DT Squorx (or other Pro Head type) as the PHR washers require them. They have a different chamfer that allows them to self align in the washers.
OKay cheers, I realised that I needed the PHR washers and nipples that are compatible i.e will pivot properly in the washer.
I ended up getting the sapim double square nipples as I was advised they are very good and are more durable than the DT swiss squorx washers.
https://www.spokesfromryan.com/product/sapim-double-square-alloy-nipples/
According to the Sapim website https://www.sapim.be/nipples/material/aluminium the nipples have an anti corrosion coating and if the thread is greased there shouldn't be much of a corrosion issue, but time will tell.
I’ve started my wheels this lunch time. I’m currently building a pair of ex 511 29er rims on Hope Pro 4 hubs.
I always use spokes from Ryan, usually the best price and always had great service - I think they cut spokes to order.
Both wheel builds I’ve used Sapim Race spokes - 70 spokes came in at £48.99.
Alloy squorx nipples have always been fine but the DT Swiss tool is worth getting, makes the job much easier.
Sapim and DT do have different thread positions for their niples.
DT don't shift the thread start/end like sapim do between 12/14/16.. but worth noting is this image and how it might change your spoke length calcs if you've entered 12mm DT nips.
