[Closed] Which hope brakes for "trail" riding

You don't ride in wet or mud!! Vee brakes will be fine!!

Well I don't ride in the UK in the winter - anyone who's had the joys of south downs chalk in the wet will understand.

Back to back testing with the 1999 avid arch rivals v the XT8000's has the arch rivals winning right now so its time to ditch the XT's

I’d go with the E4s. Not sure why you’re worried about set up woes when your lbs is doing it

The E4s are quite nice but I think they suit a certain kind of riding

Mine have seen DH and FR duties and they were great but now they're on my Olympic-spec FS they feel quite 'stoppy' IYKWIM

The Tech 3 lever has a meaty feel which works well with the powerful E4 caliper but they feel more at home on a motorbike. I'd go for the X2s

Talk of sticky pistons and drag on E4's etc has me spooked. I suppose I was used to running hopes for 20 odd years with occasional bleeds and nothing more. Also had some hayes that were good. Then I got the shimanos which have been a total nightmare. So reliability is now a major priority and 2 pistons more reliable than 4? But will I have enough power with x2?

This is worth a look:

I had X2 on a trail bike for the last couple of years, and TBH they're mostly OK for most UK riding. The thing that finally made me swap for saint* was that the time you really really need to stop...X2 were always a bit lacking in ultimate "get me out of jail" power. You'd stop, but it was sometimes a bit of a close run thing.

* bit of a mad jump I know, but TBH I want to be able to stop when I want, and Saint get that done.

Good link cgg - thanks. "all mountain" thats me. Definitely not enduro as my helmet doesn't match my bag or gloves.

Talk to me about dragging sticky pistons on the e4's. I did have to change the seals on my 4 piston xc4's once in 15 years which felt like a bind at the time but then I got some shimano "breaks".

Its a 29'er btw not sure if that makes a difference.

Shimano Deore - cheap, reliable plenty for what you suggest

If you gave them to me I wouldn't use the deores FD.

Switching to hope is going to cost me a fortune and I've been  holding off for that reason. But I NEED reliability.

Something that I'm doing to the shimanos is making them break. Both mine and mrs p's are the same. Our bikes hang vertically in a garage full of salty waterspouts equipment right by the beach and we dont ride off road in the winter so thats 4 months a year of them sitting. Hope and hayes enjoyed this kind of treatment and I could just pull my bike out dust it off and ride. Just pulled the bike out for spring and I can ride along with the front brake on AGAIN. The bite point adjust STILL doesn't work after multiple bleeds. I've got used to the on off feel and I can appreciate no drag but I need brakes that work first time all the time and that ain't shimano. Sure I could bleed them clean the rotors again and I've no doubt shimano would warranty them again but thats not the point.

Shimano Brake issues are well known, and I'm not excusing them, but brakes are moving parts, and like all these sorts of things, work best when they're being used. Personally I wouldn't store my bikes vertically for 4 months, then expect everything (even including Hope brakes) to work first time. Even if you just give them squeeze occasionally to move the fluid about, it's better than not touching them at all.

Having said all that, I think Shimano have got to the bottom of a lot of the issues that some of the recent models had, and now are getting better again. I can understand your reluctance though.

E4 are awesome. With Tech 3 levers they are also the most comfortable brakes I've used.

"E4 are awesome. With Tech 3 levers they are also the most comfortable brakes I’ve used."

I agree. 183mm discs front and back and there's more than enough power for uplift days on a 6" travel bike with a 13 stone rider. But enough modulation to stay the right way up when on the greasiest flat-turned, off-camber, natural singletrack in the depths of winter.

You could always run a mismatched pair like I did for a while: E4 up front with an X2 out back.  The lesser power at the rear makes them better balanced for general riding and if you do decide to do any big mountain days in the future you're only a new E4 caliper away from more power.

Saying all that I'm very happy with my E4's for the same riding you describe, but I do the odd uplift day too where they get lovely and toasty.

I can't see why anyone would want to mix and match E4 and X2. The E4 has plenty of modulation so no need for less power, and has a good balance of power for trail riding. Not much more weight than an X2. Only reason I didn't want the V4 as I didn't really want mixed piston sizing.

I do like that I have the ability to lock up the rear on demand for those occasions when that's useful.

Setting up E4's is pretty easy once you get your head around it. The videos on the Hope website are excellent.

The fact that they are completely rebuildable by a home mechanic and that spares are available everywhere is also a bonus.

Lubricating the seals (as per the Hope video) will stop and sticky pistons / drag and it takes about 20 minutes to do.

The modulation is far superior to any Shimano brakes I've run in the past. I don't think I could go back!

I can’t see why anyone would want to mix and match E4 and X2.

For one in my experience the E4 on the back tends to suffer from uneven piston movement unless you are tinkering with it all the time (fronts don't have the same issue). Two piston brakes don't tend to suffer so having a two piston on the back makes sense. I found the same thing over 3 different sets of m4/tech m4s. I don't think its a Hope issue rather than a four piston issue. As above you can stop it with frequent seal lubrication however that becomes a drag (pun intended). The rear X2 with a 180mm rotor is not significantly less powerful than the E4 (there is a Hope graph around somewhere), feels much the same in usage and if you care about such things is a touch lighter and cheaper :D.

Basically i want the power of the e4s with the easier setup and reliability of the x2’s then

Mismatched brakes will hurt my ocd - the oem white maxxis logo on the back is bad enough for me.

Nickc i agree my storage could be better but i have been squeezing the brakes regularly all winter and still got the issue. Mrs p’s seem ok so far although they were replaced under warranty recently so in time they will got the same way i suspect.  Everything else is working on my bike and no corrosion so although the environment in my garage is a little salty!

“Basically i want the power of the e4s with the easier setup and reliability of the x2’s then”

Then get the X2s and go up a disc size.

Or try Magura trail brakes or Sram Guides?

The levers are the same so you won't notice that they are different.

Can't say I've ever had issues with piston alignment with M4 or E4. Never lubricated the pistons on either. Been very happy with mine with 180 rotors front and back.

Thanks all - seen the piston lubrication videos online - looks easy and what I used to do with my xc4's so i'm going e4 all round - overkill for barry knows best but the weight penalty is minimal and for those 10 runs a year in the alps I'll be covered.

They’ll be great. I’ve given my M4 (near identical to the E4) and E4 brakes very little maintenance over the 7 and 4 years respectively I’ve owned them and they’ve been ridden in all conditions all year round. So much wet. So much mud. Just the odd bleed, pad change and some piston lubing and realignment at the same time.

Ive got e4's on my bike, they're adequate in terms of power , but no more than that. I only  have one bike, so its used for all my riding  from bridleway bashing to italian/spanish uplift stuff.

They're perfectly fine for the bridleway bashing side of things, but I find them marginal on the uplift stuff. They never overheat or fail, i'd just like more power.

When I bought them, it was a toss up between these and saints, shouldve gone for saints I reckon, or maybe the v4's from hope.

They've been reliable though, and the modulation is (as everyone says) excellent.

I've just fitted some E4s, only a quick ride up and down the road so far. They feel good, plenty of power in a nice modulated way.

I've rather be over braked than under braked!

Julians what size rotors are you using?

203mm on the front, 180mm on the back

What mount are you using on the front? Heard a Shimano mount doesn't work but are there any alternatives to the hope mount as they're £15 but will pay if need be.

My Shimano mount didnt work, it fouled the caliper, i bought a hope mount.

I run a mismatch set.

X2 rear E4 front on 180 discs on my 29er, I like the way it feels and I've never felt out of my depth on the steepest of stuff.

On my old bike I used to run M4s with a 203 front and 183 rear, the new setup with tech 3s feels just as good if not a bit better.

Are the Hopes worth the £40 premium over Zees?

Honestly probably not but until you’ve been time limited with riding time at a premium and had rides ruined by being unable to reliably stop you’ll understand why I’m happy to pay the high hope prices.

Shimano have issues in my experience of their recent gear having not really used much else since 1998 apart from some campag on the road.  The brakes are unreliable and my xt 11 speed can’t backpedal in the big cogs without dropping. The chain lines been adjusted and tweaked and b screws through all iterations and it still does it. It’s only cos I have 9 speed on my turbo bike that I can directly compare 17 years of shimano “progress” and realise the 9 speed shifts better and if I’m half way up a steep hill and meet a gate and need to backpedal to get going again my chain will stay on with the 9 speed!

“Are the Hopes worth the £40 premium over Zees?”

Possibly not for the performance when new as both are great. But in a few years time the Hopes will still be great and easily serviceable if they’re not perfect whilst the Zees will be getting old and tired.

I've got X2 on the hardtail & E4 on the FS - very happy with both.

I went with the E4s after the numerous stories of Shimano calipers leaking seals.

X2s were £105 an end - similar to XTR.

My Shimano mount didnt work, it fouled the caliper, i bought a hope mount.

I took a file to my Shimano mount, just a little tickle needed. I thought the rear Avid mount was fouling too as I couldn't see a gap between the caliper and the mount. But a sheet of paper passes between so all good.

Just to update and say I got the hope x2 with pro lever. Thanks for everyones input. They are bloody brilliant - didn't realise how much I missed that legendary modulation which is essential for staying upright around here on wet chalk. I can see why people moan about the power but there is LOADS of power there, you just need to pull the lever harder than the XT's to access that power. To be fair to shimano they are warrantying the xt's 19 months after purchase so fair enough. Now looking at the wifes deores that have been replaced once already under warranty wondering when they will fail again.

Yeah, I use Hope X2s - Tech 2 lever on rear and the stealth race super evo or whatever on the front.

180mm up front and 160mm on rear.

Work great for me on all kinds of terrain and steepness. And I'm about 14 stone too

Are the Hopes worth the £40 premium over Zees?

No matter how old, or what condition they're in, Hope always sell for good money on eBay.  IME pretty much anything else is worthless second hand.

Hope brakes hold silly money second. When the first XT M785’s came out I bought two sets of them and sold a set of Tech X2’s and an old set of silver mono minis and MADE enough money to buy an Easton Haven Carbon Bar & stem!!!