[Closed] Which Hardtail Conundrum

Cotic BFe of any era? I’ve had one for a couple of years and ride the trails you’ve mentioned - everything from along the canal, Macc Forest, Peak etc and it’s great. Went to it from a number of 26” wheel 456s including a ti one over the years, interspersed with various full sussers and it’s ace. Admittedly I'm riding a Transition Scout at the moment but I’d highly recommend the BFe. <stealth ad>Got a BFe 27.5 frame in the garage if you’re interested!</stealth ad> Apologies 😎.

Didn't you sell a very nice trek cuz it was 'too much bike? And you want a Moxie? Not casting aspersions but you need to be realistic about what type of rider you are....and im sure the moxie is a dope bike but for canal bimbling?

Complete 5thgen Cotic Soul build for less than the Morf, spec isn't quite on par...but it's got all that you need imho.

I went moxie.  It’s very, very long.  Built up in 29er flavour with the DVO diamonds bundled in.

All seems good so far, but need a few proper rocky rides to see what it’s really like.  Not a natural canal pootling bike, but why the hell not?  Can also highly recommend the DVO forks, OTT gives lovely initial sensitivity.

Raw is kind of a matt black btw

Sold the Trek because I was out of shape and had no time due to work and family commitments to ride it properly.That and the fact that the tyres cost more than the moon and punctured (even tubeless) all the time. Hence why I sold it for something more suitable for my predicament at that time.

Would like to keep the current bike for canal bimbling and general fitness riding, but may not be an option. That’s why whatever I buy next may have to be used for more than just chucking about in the woods.Things have changed now, but thanks for the advice. Bit scared that you remember though 😱

owned a Bfe in 26” flavour a few years ago. Nice bike, but a bit dead feeling. Didn’t think of the Soul for some reason. Not keen on the colour choices though. I know, very sad

Orange P7, 2016 one if you can find one? Love mine, it’s ace.

https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=4660&category_id=21

There you go, don’t forget the extra 10%.

That Orange would be great but is sadly too big

I'd argue that a bimble is so slow and sedate that a moxie moght make it more fun. Else that sort of riding would probably be fit for a 90s retro bike.

Get a moxie. Or the morf. More probably more all round suitable. The ti seems to be on your list for price reasons only. So I'd say no to that

Those p7s are a great deal though

The internet never forgets Mr P, never.

Fair enough the mercury colour Cotic seem stuck on now is not my taste either(tacky imho),. Are you wanting 275/+/29?

Nordest Barino run 140mm 29er sounds like it would be quite versatile.

I was always a 29er fan, but would now go for a 650b+.  It's just more usable for the type of riding I do, in British conditions.  Your riding requirements seem similar to my own.  Try and have a go on the 650+ platform.  I'd prefer a 29er wheel in perfect summer conditions, but I'm not a sufficiently accomplished rider for it to make that much difference.  Similarly, while I like the idea of slack, long travel hardtails, I'm not skilled enough to exploit such a bike on technical downhil sections.  It's cool, however, to watch skilled riders on them.

Not a fan of plus to be honest (another reason the Trek went). I’ve owned a couple of 29ers and wouldn’t mind giving 650 a go. I’ll give the Nordest a look. Thanks for the input all. Keep it coming 👍🏼

Canal bimbling + riding where you do = 29er in my books (rolls better & less hanging up on rocks).

Or I'd definitely recommend trying someone else's 650b HT in the Peak before splashing out.

Personally I'd have a short/mid-travel full-sus 29er if I could only have one bike for round that way though.

How about the Production Privee Shan GT, by complete coincidence I have an XL frame and 2018 Revelation forks for sale 🙂

It is a really great bike and would deffinitely recommend one regardless of me selling mine.

The Shan is a beautiful bike. I’d bite your hand off if I was a lot taller. Unfortunately I’m Mr average when it comes to height. It’s 17.5” or Medium all the way for me.

Thanks Cha****ng - I thought about full sus, but I’ve had a couple before and honestly don’t really like them. Much prefer the scary, near death experience of a hardtail. I found full sus meant I could just barrel around my local trails and for me that removed the fun element.

Might be worth more thought now I’m getting old and decrepit though.

If it has to be from the options you've listed I'd look at the Morf, looks cool and don't see too many on the trails.

I’m open to any suggestions but must admit it’s the Morf that’s caught my eye. 130 always seems like a sensible amount of travel on a hardtail too. Had a revelation U turn fork on my 26 Bfe and that was pretty much left at 130.

Any more bikes that are worth a look?

Of them three - Morf all the way.

Would definitely test a plus bike though, we're not getting any younger. I'm starting wish I'd gone for the Sonder Transmitter when I bought my Vitus, it was agony round parts of Afan last summer.

ok it's not steel...but it is carbon. What about the Sonder Transmitter?

Light enough to bimble, slack enough to gnar!

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/production-privee-shan-917-in-medium/

I was very, very close to buying a grey Stif Morf myself, bought a grey Stanton Slackline instead. The replaceable rear swap-outs/can go boost and more clearance to run upto 2.8 tyres amongst other things just made it a more versatile frame for me.

Carbon transmitter with a longer fork and 2.6 tires instead of full plus would be a my shout.

What kind of money are you looking to spend?

Personallt I'd be tempted by either a Stanton Slackline or a Sherpa - the 853 frameset is bloody loveley to ride. If I'm honest, I thought the Slackline 853 was nicer to ride than my second gen Ti Switchback.

I was about to suggest a Stanton Slackline or Switchback myself. The full builds don't look amazing value for the money (the 'standard' switchback better than the slackline) but if you went frame only for £700 and went bargain hunting online I reckon you could build something good.

Sram Eagle GX has been around £300 recently I think, then try to pick up something like a Manitou Mattoc for £300-£400 and maybe some DT Swiss E1900 wheels £200. Takes you up to say £1600 - leaving enough for a dropper (£100 - brand X ascend), handlebars / stem / BB / headset / saddle / tyres / cables / brakes and still come in cheaper than the cheapest Morf.

The stanton bikes are great and building something over a prolonged period could be an option. They are very expensive though. Whatever I end up getting it's going to be a case of save up over 18 months or so or use a 0% credit card. That unfortunately rules out the Shan listed above. I've considered selling my current bike to help fund, but the problem is it's a bloody great bike and I really like it, it's just not good for proper off road duties.

Budget wise I'd like something for circa 1.5k, but realise I may end up inflating the budget slightly. I'll check out the Carbon Sonder, but I'm not sold on plus. My experience is tyres that cost too much, puncture too easily and the choice is limited. To be fair though I only have experience of 29+

I might have to widen my choice to include Alu frames too.

What about a ragley blue pig?

Always forget about Ragley for some reason. Added to the list now

I would say you almost certainly should get a PP Shan. A medium Shan 917 to be precise.

Maybe if you look around, cough...Sorry..., someone might be selling one.

😉

Genesis Longitude?

Genesis Latitude?

Dmr Trailstar?

The Cotic Soul always gets a good write up and the mercury colour looks good to me - but the frame is only £100 less than the Stanton.

If you go Aluminium there are loads of choices.

For budget - Dartmoor Hornet. Bit more expensive - Bird Zero - either TR for more normal trail geometry or AM if you want long and slack.

i think with all these frames it might pay to shop around and get some bargains - just stick it all on a 0% credit card and stick to your budget. I'd probably start a spreadsheet.

I had another look at forks and from the UK then I'd me going Mattoc Pro or non-boost Yari for under £400. There were some bargain Fox 34 Rhythms going recently from one of the German mail order bike shops - think under £300.

Slightly different but I've built up a cheap hardtail - owes me maybe £300. 2004 Kona Caldera frame for £50, Marzocchi Bomber Z1's bams £50, then Sram GX / X9 10 speed shifters and derailleur with a 10 speed 11-36 cassette and race face nw ring. Picked up some second hand wheels and some Sram guide r brakes and it's great fun. Admittedly it's a 26er - but it proves my point that if you get creative you could come up with something fun for well within budget.

Found the Dartmoor hornet for £260

Add Mattock Pro for £331

Add DT Swiss E1900 for 260 euros (rose bikes)

CRC - Sram GX Eagle - £344

Gxp compatible BB Uberbike - £30

Dropper 150 Brand X Ascend £140

Saddle - SDG Bel Air Steel - £27.99

Headset - say £30

Cables - Clark's gear set inner and outer £10

Handlebars - say £30

Stem - say £20

Grips - say £10

Brakes - Sram Guide R £150

Rotors £30

Tyres - £100

Bit over £1500 but you could go cheaper on brakes and tyres, and if a 125mm dropper was ok you could save another £60 there.

I didn't look up any other groupsets but I'm guessing there are cheaper ones out there but with less range.

I like this game! 😃

<p style="padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #444444; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; margin: 1rem 0px !important;">I would say you almost certainly should get a PP Shan. A medium Shan 917 to be precise.</p>

<p style="padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #444444; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; margin: 1rem 0px !important;">Maybe if you look around, cough…Sorry…, someone might be selling one.</p>
Believe me if I could I would. It’s a gorgeous looking frame, but used is out due to the credit card / saving up thing. Unless you want to swap for a NS RAG+ or are willing to wait seven months 😀

joe - not sure why, but the Genesis mountain bikes just don’t do anything for me. Just seem a bit bland, same with Charge too. Forgot about Bird. I need to get over my steel fixation. There is just something about the skinny tubes that I love.

edit - for the love of God somebody please tell me how to quote now 😢

I’d guess there will be Soul275’s starting to become quite common SH offerings in the near future now the Mk5 is out, although I’m keeping mine - I really like it anyway, and looking at the numbers I think the Mk5 is probably going to ride differently enough that it’s a noticeably different bike.   I’ll be building mine up on 2.6’s just to make sure.

Yaris are a good shout. I’ve got a set on my Solaris already, and I picked up another set plus a pair of 30mm DT M1700’s for my coming new build for £550 in CRC’s sales a couple of weeks ago.

I've just got an onza payoff 29er - 120mm pikes and hope tech enduros with 2.4 rubber.  Works well enough for me everywhere and isn't super slack like a lot of new hardtails so mile crunching and climbing is still fun!

http://www.pacecycles.com/shop/ex-demo-pace-rc127

https://onza.com/collections/ex-demo/products/jackpot-27-5-xt-11-speed-rock-shox-pike-hope-custom-build-ex-display

The fact that you dont have a current bike to swap some existing parts over, and aren't able to take advantage of the second hand market does restrict you a fair bit, £1500 for a steel hardtail build from scratch is tricky.

I reckon upping the budget or saving for longer is on the cards. I’m erring towards buying a full bike. I just don’t think I’ll have the time, inclination or patience to build one  up. A lot to think about and thanks to everybody for the input. Added the NS eccentric range to the list too as I’m impressed with the Rag.

Fair enough - I reckon once I had the parts it’d only take about 4 hours to build a hardtail up  - just depends on cutting the steerer tube / shortening brake hoses / fitting the dropper mostly.

Of you want a full hardtail for that money then there have been some orange crush hardtails on sale recently and maybe have a look at Vitus on CRC?

Have a look on Tartbike website.

i just bought a 2017 Marin Pine Mountain 2 for £1400.

XT drivechain

650b plus

Fox 34 forks

dropper post

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Fair enough – I reckon once I had the parts it’d only take about 4 hours to build a hardtail up</span>

Not much spare space plus a four year old who wants to help would make it a lot more of a ball ache than putting some bars and a front wheel on 😕

I think it’s start a comparison spreadsheet and look at the budget time!

Pfft.. Budget-schmudget, Consume all you troubles away, that is an order from your capitalist overlords.

But really, I think taking a slight hit on price/spec for convenience of a full build and getting you back on the MTB trails as soon as possible is pretty sensible(if middle aged men riding bikes downhill is sensible)

As much as the mercury Cotic wasn't to your taste, there is little wrong with the orange...£1799 base build, maybe you could slight a leg over one at a demo. Or maybe just go to town and get that Stanton and deal with consequences later.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">Or maybe just go to town and get that Stanton and deal with consequences later.</span>

I’m looking at the Sherpa and Slackline in another tab. If they came with a dropper I’d be even more tempted 😀 if I was going to go all out and worry about the consequences later I’d get a Kingdom Vendetta.

Few bikes:

Orange Crush S - small or medium in stock- £1199

https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=4658&category_id=10

Crush Pro but only in small £1499

https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=4659&category_id=10

Just looked on the Bird website and you can easily get a decent spec hardtail on there. Zero TR looks good - up to £1500 gets you a Yari with GX Eagle, or if you go Slx or NX with that much cash you could use it to upgrade the forks or wheels if you felt the need. I’d quite like a TR as a hardtail for messing about on locally on the pumptrack but couldn’t justify it given my Kona is perfect for that!

After much though I’ve decided a 29er is still going to be best and I need to keep the budget sensible. Therefore I’ve narrowed it down to the following that I’ve found at decent prices.

Which would you go for and why?

NS Eccentric Chromo - No dropper and can’t find any views on the manitou machete fork. Fulfills my “ooh that’s pretty” criteria and I love my current NS bike

Genesis Tarn 20 - Well reviewed and seems to be a good all rounder - chubby 650, but can take 29 too. Bonus points for looking like a bee!

Ragley Big Wig - Always avoided Ragley but no idea why. Have they previously been shit at some point? Bike looks good.

Kona Honzo AL/DL - Frame is well reviewed but some parts seem a bit poor. Why do Kona always seem to offer  poorer spec than the other big firms?

All advice appreciated.

Tarn for me, possibly with a slackset if buying frame only.

Sizing seems best. Also like the aesthetic best.

If you can hold out till after Easter there could well be some great additional options coming through plus it's also when alll the rumours and spy shots for the new 2019 models come out.

Ooh, colour me intrigued Alex.

Honzo looks ace but spec is terrible, even with the massive discounts online on last year's models.

Tarn is ace. Look lovely in the flesh too. I'd go with that (and 29er too).

Isn't a Tarn 20 £2200

Currently the Sonder Transmitter Revelation build is £1300. That leaves room in the budget for somee the 29er wheels

Test rides from Hathersage

Can get the Tarn 20 for a grand less than that with a Yari fork. Not keen on the look of the Sonder and it’s not steel. Yes, I am shallow 😕

If I was looking for a hardtail I'd be tempted by the ritchey that's in the classifieds just now. It's a lovely frame that has been very well kitted out and would leave some cash to upgrade bits and pieces.

Your money so be as shallow as you like

I’d like a tarn. Have to accept a weight penalty as it’s not a light frame, but decent value with the discounts around.

i think Sonder specifically state that they will not take 29” and telling people not to put them on their frame? May have imagined it but sure that was a thing.

Bigwig owner here. I had wanted to get a Moxie frame but missed out on the first batch so wanted a stop gap frame until the second batch land. I’m very impressed with the level of detailing and quality for such a cheap frame, the ride quality is excellent and I don’t miss rear sus unless I carry speed through rocks forgetting I’m on a Hardtail.

send me an email if you want some pics of a built up XL size.

The Sonder isn't recommended for 29'er wheels.

I suppose out of that lot it depends whether you place the versatility of being able to run both plus and 29'er wheels of the Tarn, over the slightly slacker angles of the Bigwig.

There's some nice deals on the Tarn 29 and I personally don't rate Plus wheels, they are much cop for riding around my parts(my friend has a Sonder Transmitter), but 2.6 would be a good compromise...and i doubt they would fit in the Bigwig.

I tried 29 plus and even tubeless it was puncture city. Most of them too big to seal. It was also a bit rubbish in the wet and tyres cost more than the moon. Is 27.5 plus pretty much the same story?

Must admit I’m drawn more towards 29, but prefer the kit and finish on the Tarn 20. Chopchop would you definitely recommend the BigWig? Somethings always put me off Ragley and I don’t know why.

Any NS Eccentric owners in or people with experience of the machete fork?

Or maybe sit tight and see if there's an updated Cotic Solaris soon? The base builds at £1.5k are not bad at all IMO.

Bigwig fits up to 3" in plus accoring to the Chain Reaction Website

EDIT: Nice to know the preview button actually means nothing when it comes out completely different

According to the ragley site 2.4" is the max tire on the Bigwig.

My experiences of plus are limited to a few shots of my mates Transmitter and watching him skate about on anything approaching mud. You've probably got more of an idea than me but you've tried plus and it didn't work, the tyres have got better but they are more expensive than standard sizes. If you've got the money to have multiple wheelsets and could be arsed swopping them.... not for me.

I don't think you'll get a basic Solaris for less than £1799(thats what a new base Soul cost)

That would be ideal, provided of course Mr fussy pants likes the colour.

Dumbot: 2.4 on 29er, 3.0 for 650b

That would be ideal, provided of course Mr fussy pants likes the colour

😀 as long as it’s not the same tinfoil finish as the Soul

i built my chameleon for about 1500 i reckon. all new parts apart from the saddle. yari, + wheels, renthal, thompson, dropper, ss though.
tyre choice much better for 27.5+ but the chameleon takes 29 wheels too, and gears, if that's your thing.

How about getting a Tarn. Second hand there are some bargains but even new just over a grand will be enough for one

Then if you don't like it you could always buy another frame and swap everything over down the line.