Which Cotic do I want!?

I’d get the Jeht and build it with a Pike and a ccdb air il to keep the suspension weight fairly light but capable.

Go for XM481 rims on something like Bitex / Hope / DT 350 hubs for a light ish but strong ish wheelset. Don’t go too heavy on tyres and you should have a great all rounder.

I bet the weight differential is minimal in the frame so it'll be more down to what you build it up with.

Not sure if it helps but you can stick and angleset in the FlareMAX to slacken it a bit more.

I think they're running demos again, from their HQ IIRC. Any chance of getting over to try each option out in the flesh/metal?

Could have typed this myself, been thinking Flaremax for a while now.  But more I think the more I think Jeht.

In no rush, having recently got a BFEMax.

Report back on what you decide and how you go with it.

I've just bought a Jeht because I wanted the silver frame. It's faster around my local Chiltern trails than the Camber 29 it replaced. And it's got mud clearance!

Either will be great.

I have a FlareMax that I bought just before the Jeht was announced, and whilst I think I'd have preferred to get a Jeht the FlareMax was ex-demo so there's no way I could have afforded a Jeht, and the differences are pretty minimal...

I'd say if you're buying new, go for a Jeht.

stick and angleset in the FlareMAX to slacken it a bit more.

This did cross my mind, but this might sound daft but I don't really want to do that to a brand new bike. Like if I have to do that, then it's the wrong bike in the first place.

Was for the weight thing, I know that's not the be all and end all, I'm sure the bikes will ride fine whatever. But I do want to save a few grams to save my back when I'm lugging it about! And if that makes it feel a bit more sprightly then so be it.

Jeht looks to be winning so far, does look 👌 in the midnight blue

I've just built a Jeht frame up, only a few rides in though. I demoed a FlareMax and a RocketMax before COVID and thought the RocketMax was too much bike for me, but wasn't sure if the FlareMax was enough, so didn't buy either frame.

After the Jeht launched it seemed a no brainer, so when the latest batch came in stock I ordered a frame and swapped everything over. Having ridden the Jeht a few times I think I'd have been fine on a FlareMax too - I doubt I'll stretch this anywhere near it's limit with my riding.

I'll fly the flag for flaremax. I'm using 140mm fox 34s and it's very capable. Not sure how light the SID is but the 34 is worth considering. I don't feel underbiked coming from my 140mm occam. I guess it comes down to whether you want/need the the extra rear travel.

https://imgur.com/a/4OAA75d

Which Cotic do I want!?

A Soul is the answer, isn't it?

As much as I love my RocketMAX, it's a BIG bike for BIG terrain. If I was in the market for a fourth Cotic right now I'd be looking at Jeht as an all rounder (if I could get over the name).

I've had pretty much the same experience as funklenut and got one of the first Jehts when they launched it. It's a great bike, pedals really well and feels really stable descending. First 29er for me jumping straight from 26 and really happy with it.

Again like funklenut the flaremax probably would have done the job but there's something psychological about that extra couple of centimetres (fnarr!) giving me a bit more of a get out of jail card when it gets rougher.

I know a few have mentioned the ccdb air il but for me the shocks just not fit for anything other than trail centre riding. I think if your fairly light, small or smooth on a bike. (aka i ride like a salmon) you can get away with it, but to get 17mm or sag on my rocket im running over 200psi. (im tall but pretty much a bean pole.) If i was building a bike as a do it all I would be going for Jeht.

After a bit more contemplating today, I think I could go for flaremax and spec a 140mm fork. I should be ok with short rear travel, current bike has 125mm.

There's only the option to spec a helm with cotic though, but you can supply a fork for then to fit. Which have you used @davros? I do like the slste grey

Well, both the Helms and the RS Revelations that come on FlareMAX builds can have their travel changed (the latter with an air spring swap), so either could be made 130/140 or whatever to try out different travel in future. The SIDs can't though.

Hey Rich, I bought a frame only and transferred the parts from my orbea occam. Mine is only the 34 performance but it's brilliant and a couple of hundred grams lighter than a pike.

I just mentioned the fox as a lightweight and longer travel alternative to the Sid. But fox tend to be much pricier than rockshox so I'd probably just go for a pike or helm and save weight elsewhere.

After a bit more contemplating today, I think I could go for flaremax and spec a 140mm fork. I should be ok with short rear travel, current bike has 125mm.

I'm running a 140mm X-Fusion McQueen rough cut, or whatever it's called, on my Gen 3 FlareMAX. Works great. Love the bike. It feels connected, if that makes sense, but still digs out mysterious levels of speed and traction in a way I don't quite understand.

I've ridden a RocketMAX and that felt too much for me and very not connected. Not tried a Jeht, but the FlareMAX does a great job of being 'just enough'. It's not light for what it is, but that doesn't seem to bother it. Great bike 🙂

ps: mate who's ridden both - and quite a few other bikes - reckons the Jeht is a more mainstream medium-travel full susser and decent, but the FlareMAX is more esoteric and satisfying to ride.

I bought a frame only and transferred the parts from my orbea occam. 

Can I ask why you binned the Occam?
Did you not get on with it, or was it wrong style of bike?
Cheers

Not binned the Occam, just rebuilt it with parts from the hardtail. I'm going to use them both for a few months and decide which frame to keep. Or maybe I'll keep both 😬

I just fancied trying something different, nothing wrong with the Occam. They're very different. Occam climbs much better due to stiffness, pedalling, and less weight. But there's something awesome about descending on the cotic...

Righto. Interesting. The occam is the only really good bike I've bought apart from a Muni Mula, so I'm interested in how it compares to others.

Cheers

Reading with interest. I have a Jeht frame on order to replace my Hightower V1 frame. Build will have 150mm 36s and the CC Katsuma shock. I'm imagining its gonna be epic pointed downhill

The Jeht and Flaremax frames are basically the same weight are they not?

After a bit more contemplating today, I think I could go for flaremax and spec a 140mm fork.

Aha, I was reading down the thread about to suggest this as the best solution.

Dunno what Cotic offer, but I'd suggest a Pike Select+ or Ultimate (both excellent) and maybe even consider 130mm travel.

I've just got a new FlareMax. Most of my riding is in Anglia so nothing to phase it. I just wanted a bit of rear travel to smooth out ruts across fields.
If I was riding the areas where you suggested I would go Jeht.

I know a few have mentioned the ccdb air il but for me the shocks just not fit for anything other than trail centre riding. I think if your fairly light, small or smooth on a bike. (aka i ride like a salmon) you can get away with it, but to get 17mm or sag on my rocket im running over 200psi. (im tall but pretty much a bean pole.) If i was building a bike as a do it all I would be going for Jeht.

17mm of sag?

I run somewhere near 1.5* that, if not more on my Flaremax, and this is in the Tweed Valley and pretty much constant off-piste & rocks at the Golfie/Thornilee and the like. The shock has an 'endless' feel, and I reckon I've only felt it bottoming out once or twice a year, if that.

As to the build - Flaremax Gen2 with a -2 headset, 132mm rear, a 140mm Lyric and Michelin Wild Enduro tyres & inserts. I'd probably get a Jeht as a replacement, but I did demo a RocketMax just before lockdown and PR'd 20secs of an often ridden Strava section so unsure (and not a decision I've to make at the mo). Weight-wise, it's heavy compared to old-school bikes, but far, far more capable and TBH climbs better than even my light-weight 26" Ti HT.

If the OP just wants a bike for days out, don't ignore just going 'big'.

Loving my Flaremax. I only got it replace my HT but it's rapidly replacing my Patrol too.

130mm Revelations feel plenty

https://i.postimg.cc/hjpHmsrT/14-DA74-A0-F27-D-4584-A541-EE56-C4565497.jp g" alt="Flaremax" />

Flaremax

The purple does look awesome! What size frame do you have @tops5? I've been wondering if a water bottle would fit on my medium frame.

@woodlikesbikes thanks mate 🙂 It's a medium and the bottle is a tight squeeze!

Lovely stuff. Top of San Marino eh? What fork did you go for?

If you're not actually racing it, why not up the fork capability a little, as others have suggested, by using a Helm at 140? I'm running my G3 120 FlareMax with a coil Helm and the bike is wonderful up in the Cairngorms and Torridon as well as ragging about in the woods. The alleged weight penalty is almost non existent in the real world and comes with a lot of advantages. Just adjust tyres to the expected trip and it's stunning fun.

Lovely stuff. Top of San Marino eh? What fork did you go for?

Yep running well ATM

I went for Revelations at 130mm

If it's your only bike and being used in the Lakes/Hebden etc, then I would get a Jeht. I suspect the weight difference between a FlareMax & Jeht will be minimal, so why compromise with shorter travel.

I would genuinely just get the one you like the look of most. As in, aesthetics. That will be the one.

Think your probably right there Ben. Swung back to the Jeht tonight, but could be a moot point anyway, accepted an offer on my current bike through eBay over the weekend, but the buyer is yet to pay..... Would prefer that out the way and the cash in the bank before I commit to an order.

I rode the Flaremax on a demo day. It was ridiculously good in the Surrey Hills.... but there's the issue. I am a Southern softie, and you may wish for more in the Lakes etc! But it was the most confident short travel bike I have ridden by some margin.

I've been looking at the canyon spectral today, cf8. Top spec, carbon, relatively light, 140mm fork. A very different experience for sure, not in stock till July. 🤯

I've just ordered.....😬

Ordered ...what ? 😀

FWIW; I've got the FlareMax with the Helm fork set at 140mm; it's a beauty 🙂

Yey! New bike excitement incoming!

After much mulling.... I've gone for...... The Jeht 🤛

Initially I wanted the flaremax in a light weight build. Then I was thinking about the canyon spectral, thinking I should get a lighter weight carbon effort. I had seen the norco optic c1 a while ago, but that sold out in my size.

But then I was thinking I've had a short travel bike, might as well try something different... And slacker! I'm sure the flaremax would be more than enough for me, but why not give something beefier a go!

I'm definitely gonna be grateful for that bit extra round the lakes and during Ardrock! Just hope I don't regret it on the odd hike a bike I do!!

Jeht in large midnight blue with Fox 36 upgrade. Delayed the build so it can be delivered when I've got a few days off work so should arrive mid June.

Added to the below shock frame bag, but anyone know what the recommended bottle and cage combo is? Forgot to ask.

Added to the below shock frame bag, but anyone know what the recommended bottle and cage combo is? Forgot to ask.

Cotic recommended the Lezyne side-loading cage to me, which works great. It needs to be the opposite hand to the one you want to use, because it's upside down. I'm using the smaller Camelbak Podium bottle with the mud-cover top, which fits perfectly on a FlareMAX and is super secure, I'm guessing the Jeht will be very similar.

Enjoy btw, brilliant bikes! 🙂

Nice! Post pics when built please!

I have been following this thread as I have a trek fuel ex8 that feels a bit soggy and sits deep in its travel (no pop) and been thinking of new frame and whether ti go flaremax or jeht.

Cotic seem to be rapidly turning into the alfa romeo of the bike world (just without the unreliability!)

Spesh zee cage works well on the flaremax.

Also watching with interest, currently Flaremax, Jeht and Bird Aether 9 on the shortlist. Oh and less sensibly the Privateer 141. I"m South Downs so don't really need a big bike but also why not.

Added to the below shock frame bag, but anyone know what the recommended bottle and cage combo is?

I use a Zee… a LHS one that becomes a RHS one once upside down. The low down frame bags are great, I have one on the hardtail as well. Put some clear frame protection on where the bag straps go behind the seattube and under the downtube though, in case of rub when dirty.

NBD today!! Due to arrive some time before 6pm.

Shine taken off it somewhat by having COVID. Not gonna be up to a proper ride till next week sometime I reckon.

Still, at least I can look at it 😅

You can spend some time setting up the suspension, just use the kerb outside your house 🙂

I've the Cane Creek shock and it's well worth a bit of effort to set it up. Start with the recommended settings (on the card Cotic supply), and as I said earlier, I run a lot of sag and use the climb 'switch' when 'climbing'.

I'd have gone with the Jeht as well, it'd go nicely with my Soul (which is way more capable than it should be - it also got me round ardrock without dying, but I did decide that some suspension at the back would be good if I were to do ardrock again)

Ive finally built my Jeht with Fox 36 PE Forks and The CC Katsuma shock. Its bloody brilliant! I knew it was going to descend well but i'm truly amazed at how well it climbs, noticeably better than the SC Hightower C V1 its replaced despite the added weight. Never felt the need to run the shock anything other than fully open its that supportive.

My solution to the Jeht conundrum was to have both a Flaremax and a RocketMax (with a Soda Max for the winter/bikepacking) 😂. Flaremax is a v1 so really trying to resist the urge to get a new one. I hate the way cotic suck you into buying more bikes.

https://ibb.co/Njkq9H5

Looks alright eh?

Arrived early on today, but I'm still feeling a bit ropey so I've not been fully motivated yet. I'll take some better pics and do a ride report once I've got it going.

It feels very alien right now, so different to my previous bike (transition scout.) It immediately feels much bigger. Need to get the suspension tweaked obviously, got some frame protection patches to fit, fiddle with the saddle etc'.

Weight check, 15.7 kg with pedals 😳 Be fine, I do a bit of bouldering now so I must be getting stronger! 🤓

Classically beautiful.

I can't ride cos of wrist problems and only got my RocketMax in September last year. I occasionally get it out just to look at it and embrace the beauty.

It also felt very big but then it's longer, slacker and higher stack than my previous bike so makes sense.

Enjoy being a cotic owner, bloody good bikes.

That looks lovely, very purposeful with clean lines.

It feels very alien right now, so different to my previous bike (transition scout.) It immediately feels much bigger. Need to get the suspension tweaked obviously, got some frame protection patches to fit, fiddle with the saddle etc’.

Sounds like me when my Rocket arrived, even after I'd had a demo ride of it a few months before! Took a while for my head to not think the front was broken as both my previous bikes had 67 degree head angles, the Rocket's 64 degrees looked way slacker from behind the bars. Even the fact it was 60mm longer in reach compared to the old bikes didn't really stop the old mind tricks. Feels second-nature now 4 years on though.

Nice 👍

Sometimes when you build an all-rounder, it can turn out as a jack of all trades but master of none. And pretty slow on most stuff.

Might as well embrace the extra travel but fit faster tyres in the summer.

Weight check, 15.7 kg with pedals 😳 Be fine, I do a bit of bouldering now so I must be getting stronger! 🤓

I previously had a carbon Camber 29 before the Flare Max - with the same build kit the Flare Max was 1kg heavier, and about 6" longer. Which I discovered when I went to put the bike into the vertical stand where the Camber previously stood 🙂

Out of interest, how much longer a wheelbase has the Jeht than the Scout?

Bit of an update following a few rides. Did Gisburn first to ride somewhere familiar, then Rivington a couple of times. Got some local knowledge which was much appreciated 😜

First off, quickly find a natural riding position. It's comfortable and doesn't feel alien like it did the first time I got on it!

I feel like it's taking a lot of tweaking to get the suspension right. I think the fork feels pretty good now, put a few more psi in before setting off today, took all the compression off. First run down a rooty trail and it felt rough, couple of clicks HSC compression and it felt much better.

The shock and rear end has not been feeling as plush as i thought it would. I've got the sag about right, but it still feels a little harsh somehow. It's good, but I think it could be better. Doesn't help that I don't really know what I'm doing 😜

Pinch flat on second ride, can't get it to seal so there's a tube in the rear now. Waiting on a dynaplug repair kit to try and sort it. Dinged the rim as well (Hunt trail wide.) 7 yrs on stans arch ex and I never put a dent in the rim!?

So a tube in the rear plus the weight of the frame bag (with tube, co2 etc) plus water bottle makes the rear feel heavy. I don't think this is a major thing, just that I need to adjust my weight more effectively. Sometimes when I'm popping off something, either I don't pull the back up enough or try too hard and nose dive. I reckon I'm so used to my old bike, I need to relearn my body positioning.

Riding down some steep, twisty, rooty trails today and it does feel great. When it's real steep I feel like I can get down into a much more stable position. I feel more confident in the front end then I ever did on my old bike, not as afraid of it washing out. Don't feel the need to change the tyre (WTB Verdict) but then maybe it could be even better!?

I feel like I'm more willing to tackle steep off camber stuff, I'd like to do a back to back run on my old Transition, see if I'd make it down!

Riding up stuff feels fine. Easy enough to sit and spin, the weight isn't an issue here. Strangely, it's less floppy than my old bike despite being a lot slacker, thought it would be all over the shop but it's easy to keep in a straight line.

Moving from SRAM to Shimano gearing feels fine, lovely and light feeling. XT brakes should be plenty powerful enough. The oneup dropper feels great with the Shimano lever.

Thought I might need to chop the bars down from 780 to 760, but I'll stick with it for now. Think I like them!

Also assumed I'd need to change the cotic saddle, but actually it's bloody comfortable. That's staying.

Went for dmr v12's instead of vaults. Lighter and cheaper. Think the platform is slightly smaller, but they feel no different when riding. Plenty grip with freeriders.

Got a cheap zefal side load cage. Pleased to find an 800ml bottle fits no problem 👌

Only a few more weeks till ardrock, that'll be a good test. Hopefully get a few more rides in before then.

Will post up a few more pics in a bit.

Fyi - wheelbase is 107mm longer than the scout. Wonder if it fits on the Thule 591!!?

https://ibb.co/GcHf7Bp
https://ibb.co/M59QnVC
https://ibb.co/GTLyzSS
https://ibb.co/Jv1n2C8

Close up of the frame bag.

Large bottle in a large frame!

Should really try to get a close up of the paint, it's for a nice sparkle to it

TIP: You can slide a snack or gel into the flap on top of that bag, under the shock.

Fyi – wheelbase is 107mm longer than the scout. Wonder if it fits on the Thule 591!!?

Now put a -2 headset in 🙂

The rear suspension is worth experimenting with, ie multiple runs on a short 'testing' descent. And as said before I run a lot of sag (and use the climb 'switch'), try it at 40% and work back.

Don’t feel the need to change the tyre (WTB Verdict) but then maybe it could be even better!?

If it's the light/high grip version it's the best front tyre on the market IMO.

But I have swapped to a Minion DHF for the current summer conditions at Rivi, where something a bit less toothy can give more grip. And roll faster.

The shock and rear end has not been feeling as plush as i thought it would. I’ve got the sag about right, but it still feels a little harsh somehow. It’s good, but I think it could be better. Doesn’t help that I don’t really know what I’m doing

Dial the HSC all the way off, then ride for a bit and put some back on if you feel it's giving up its travel too easily. Maybe dial most of the LSC off as well, and just put what you need to get a good pedaling feel back on.

Do those one at a time. You may need to tweak the rebound faster as well.

Have you read the set up guide for the shock base tune?

https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/jeht#setup

How To Set Damping - Shock

Once the front and rear sags are set, adjust the rebound and compression damping to your preference. If you have specified the Cane Creek shock, then our base setup is on the shock when it's delivered. These settings are listed below all relative to fully open position on the adjusters:

DB Air IL

2 x large volume spacers
1.0 Turns HSC (High Speed Compression)
6 Clicks LSC
1.0 Turns HSR
4 clicks LSR

I found with the flaremax settings I got on well with the base tune and have only tweaked it slightly to slow down the rebound a bit.

I have the Katsuma shock on mine. I've left it with the base tune it came supplied with and it feels mint

Out of interest, what year was your scout? I've hardly ridden my 2018 sbg Scout since I got my BfeMax. Really fancied a Jeht when they first appeared. Still quite fancy adding a jeht or rocketmax to the quiver...

2016/17 think. Alloy, one of the early ones when they marketed the "giddy up" suspension. I definitely feel more capable on the jeht.