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We've got an SLR, but it's a bit of a faff taking places, and the missus doesn't like it. Almost all photos we take now are on our phones, and we want something better. Compact system cameras seem a good compromise of size, quality with choice of lenses. Looking to spend 350 ish.
Thoughts from the STW photographists......
Sony a6000.
What he said
Have you considered a really good compact? Pretty impressed with my Sony RX100 and I own 5Ds and fancy glass etc
Olympus.
Actually - any of the MFT cameras - but if it were my money I would be going for an EM-5 Mk II, or if that was a bit spendy an EM-10 Mk II... the MkI versions of either would come next on my list as they are getting pretty cheap now.
Why?
Really, really good lenses. I mean REALLY good. Loads more choice in optics than other brands too... and if the results are good enough for McGillicuddy/Buchannan-Grant and many others then they are good enough for anyone!
They are also very solid cameras so taking it on a mountain bike isn't an issue.
I took this one yesterday:
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/718/22676562504_5f8982dfe3_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/718/22676562504_5f8982dfe3_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/AxRiZA ]25th November 2015[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/alpinist-photography/ ]Rob Sutherland[/url], on Flickr
True... it would probably have been better taken on my big Nikon full frame beast, but I wasn't carrying that at the time - because it is a big beast! The best camera is the one you have with you, as Cartier-Bresson (I think it was) once said.
I'd say it depends if you are going to stick with the kit lens, or buy a load of primes?
The A6000 looks a great deal with the kit lens. I've not tried one, but it gets rave reviews pretty much universally.
However MFT has a great selection of reasonably priced primes. I've got an Olympus EM10 and a selection of primes. Really lightweight and portable.
However a budget of £350 will probably only buy you a body?
Given that a compact system camera still won't fit in a pocket/handbag/ and will probably require a specific bag/case like your SLR would you not be better off getting a decent compact like the Sony RX100?
If you get a CSC you might just end up with a 'slightly smaller camera than my SLR that's still a pain to lug around'...?
There was an olympus pen down frmo 744 to 329 on Amazon yesterday...
Fair point - I carry a Ricoh GR for riding
The Olympus although small, still takes up a fair proportion of a Camelbak.
Its great for hiking, travel and street photography though, when I still wouldn't want to be lugging a DSLR round.
The Olympus sold out before 9:00 am at that price. There were other sellers, but at £700+.
If you don't need an electric view finder the Olympus pen pl6 or pl7, or the Sony 5100 come in under budget.
Sony ILCE5100L down from 415 to 279 :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MTZI4Y8?ref_=gbps_img_s-3_7907_5889a346&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
There is a lot more to deciding which camera is right for you than image quality as your post acknowledges. These days, above a certain point, the IQ is moot and it’s form factor that tends to sway people’s choice.
Your budget though will restrict your choice a little, and probably won’t get you a CSC at least not one with an interchangeable lens that’s brand new. That said, there is a lot to be said for buying second hand from a reputable camera shop. You will get a much better deal this way.
For example, you can get a Fuji XM-1 from Park Cameras for £169. You will need to add a lens to that but there are loads of Fuji XF lenses, both primes and zooms, on eBay right now largely because Fuji are giving them away with their older cameras (like the X-Pro 1) to stimulate demand before they replace these models. I would suggest something like the XF 18mm or 27mm, both of which are very compact and come in around £200 on eBay.
There are two other options that I would strongly recommend. The first is another Fuji, the X100, either the original model or the X100s which is the mark 2 version. You should be able to find either of these at your price point, perhaps even new as these two versions are now relatively old. The great thing about buying older Fuji cameras though is that Fuji have been really excellent at supporting their products through firmware updates (unlike Sony who have been woeful at this). Each firmware update genuinely improves the way the camera works, especially around things like autofocus.
The X100 has a fixed 35mm equivalent lens, which if you’re prepared not to be lazy with, will be perfect for 80% of most people’s needs. Yes there is a big debate about perspective and focal length blah blah blah, but I honestly cannot see much if any difference between say a non-cropped portrait shot at say 85mm focal length and a cropped one taken at 35mm, all other things being equal (i.e. sensor, lens quality, processing etc).
Both the Fujis I’ve suggested here (and indeed anything between the XM-1 and the X100 and indeed the XE-1 and 2) all have an APS-C sensor and will almost certainly give better IQ than your current DSLR (assuming that you’ve got an APS-C one from either Canon or Nikon). Fuji have been doing fabulous things with their sensors and the way they ‘render’ is sublime.
The other strong recommendation is the Sony RX100, probably in the mk2 or at a push, mk3 version. Your budget won’t buy the mk3 new but will buy the mk2 new. The mk2 does not have a view finder though, whereas the mk3 does and it pops up where you might otherwise expect a flash to be. It’s genius packaging and personally makes a massive difference to the form factor and usability of the camera in my view (see what I did there?) If you don’t care for the EVF, the mk2 is the better choice as it’s the same sensor and processor but cheaper. Both have a zoom lens ranging from 24mm to 70mm equivalent.
I’d buy the Sony if I wanted a camera I could genuinely put in my pocket, wanted a zoom and was prepared to compromise a little on the IQ and the Fuji if what I wanted was camera that could produce genuinely fabulous images in a package that made me want to pick the camera up, hold it and shoot it. And that is what I mean by form factor. Does the camera itself make you want to hold it and shoot it because if it doesn’t you might as well stick with your iPhone (the six is surprisingly good actually!)
One last left field suggestion is the Ricoh GRD. Again, in the older version, the mk4 guise (the latest model is referred to as the GRD II) you should be able to find this either new or nearly new at your price point. It’s a bit more left field because while revered by ‘street shooters’ as a brilliant camera, it has a 28mm equivalent field of view which is getting on for quite wide and will be a little trickier to work with as a result. That said, with an APS-C sensor and 20+ megapixels, you can crop to 50% very happily and probably up to 100% and still have usable results (assuming you’ve factored in the shutter speed to match that equivalent focal length).
However MFT has a great selection of reasonably priced primes.
They're expensive. As are sony primes (which there is also a large selection). If you want reasonable prices you need a dslr.
They're expensive
I wasn't so sure about that so I've just checked.
Cheapest Sony e-mount prime is the Sigma 19mm or 30mm f/2.8 which at Park Cameras is £128. Cheapest zoom is the Sony 18-55 at £229.
Cheapest Nikon prime is the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D at £109 and cheapest 18-55 zoom is the f/3.5-5.6 at £115.
So yes, the entry price point for DSLR lenses is lower but not by much in the case of primes and I don't think you can categorise all CSC lenses as 'expensive' even if the zooms are twice the price at the entry level.
Just had the following offer through from Wilkinson cameras. Olympus EM10 plus 14-42 lens for £399:
Sony A6000 is also £395 after cashback...
So yes, the entry price point for DSLR lenses is lower but not by much in the case of primes and I don't think you can categorise all CSC lenses as 'expensive' even if the zooms are twice the price at the entry level.
Yeah, the sigmas are the bargain basement for mirrorless but still more expensive than dslr (and the reason they're reasonable is that they're slow). Have a look at sony (or olympus) primes to see the big differences.
Sony 50mm f1.8 (dslr) £89
Sony 50mm f1.8 (mirrorless) £195
Sony 35mm f1.8 (dslr) £139
Sony 35mm f1.8 (mirrorless) £319
Compare like for like on equivalent focal length and speed and you'll find mirrorless is expensive.
This is unequivocal. That said, you could argue that the reason the mirrorless equivalents are more expensive is because they are better. As an equally objective comparrison, DXO scores the both the 50 and 35 higher on the A6000 than the dslr versions on the A58.
But this is kind of academic. If you don't want a dslr because of the size and bulk, then a few hundred pounds more for a CSC package is, in my view, quite reasonable.
Panasonic G7 with 14-140 lens : 699 but Panasonic are doing £200 cashback :
I have the G6 with that lens and it fits into an Apex 100 lowepro case, but it is more bridge camera size.
But this is kind of academic. If you don't want a dslr because of the size and bulk, then a few hundred pounds more for a CSC package is, in my view, quite reasonable.
Yeah, agreed, I'm a convert too.
The plus side for mirrorless is size, which is what you're paying the premium for.
Mind you that said, if you want something really excellent for not much money, then your pound goes a very (very) long way if you buy a film camera.
We've got a Sony 5100 and the images are very good. Plus it's not that much bigger than a point and shoot.
+1 to geetee's post above. They're all good enough in terms of image quality, the main criteria are how they handle—which depends on how you prefer to work—and whether you have any specific lens preferences.
Personally, the Fujis look the best fit for my requirements, and as above, you should find some good kit hovering around your budget. (I'd probably be inclined to go for the XE-1.)
One last left field suggestion is the Ricoh GRD. Again, in the older version, the mk4 guise (the latest model is referred to as the GRD II)
Actually the first four models (with 1/1.7" sensors) were called the GR Digital, and the second of these is normally called the GRD II. The fifth incarnation (with the APS-C sensor) dropped the "Digital" and was just the "GR". (There's now a second version of the GR.)
I'm pretty much living off my GR and a Panasonic LF-1 these days, plus occasionally a GX1 with the 20/1.7.
Actually… I have a full set of Ricoh GXR kit which I ought to move on, and my starting price would probably be not too far above jimbo's budget. Body plus 50/2.5 A12 APS-C unit, plus 24-72 S10 unit, plus 28-300 P10 unit, plus automatic lens cover, plus two lens bags, with all boxes and accessories (except for the S10 box), and all in mint condition. Makes a pretty handy travel kit…
We've got a Sony 5100 and the images are very good
offers gone now...
EOS M Mk2
Mind you that said, if you want something really excellent for not much money, then your pound goes a very (very) long way if you buy a film camera.
Unless you take photos with it 😆
Actually the first four models (with 1/1.7" sensors) were called the GR Digital, and the second of these is normally called the GRD II. The fifth incarnation (with the APS-C sensor) dropped the "Digital" and was just the "GR". (There's now a second version of the GR.)
I knew I'd get this wrong. Having been looking to buy one myself, I discovered how confusing the naming convention was for the various iterations.
So the 'GR V' comes with APS-C and the 'GRII' is the same but new?
Seen some great offers on the Ricoh GR (V not the GR2). Can't remember where, but it was about £350. Cracking little camera, I love mine.
The upgrade to GR2 only gives you wifi and a few software updates. No major changes to spec.
A friend of mine is a well respected street photographer (he's had several images published in highbrow art photography magazines and selected to show in galleries etc) and he also loves his GR.
The 'snap focus' feature is especially useful and very quick. Would love to have a GR mkV in my bag generally and in my pocket permanently.
So the 'GR V' comes with APS-C and the 'GRII' is the same but new?
Strictly, the names are:
GR Digital
GR Digital II
GR Digital III
GR Digital IV
GR
GR II
The last two have the APS-C sensor.
The naming's not ideal for googling, certainly 😉
I thought someone might find my rhyme mildly amusing:
'the GR-Vee comes with APS-C and the GR Two is the same but new'
I salute your optimism 🙂
Thanks all - we end up going for a Canon G7x in the end - mainly due tot he compactness of it, and it turns out it takes very nice pictures. Thanks for all the advice!
I have a Sony A6000. Love it. Kit lens is OK but nothing special. Would need to probably invest in a better lens if quality bokha is your thing.