You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I guess this type of thread crops up periodically (I think normally in December when STW runs its predictions) but buying and selling various bike bits lately (and the soul thread yesterday) made me think about how standards have changed/improved over the years. I'm struggling to think of what will come next to render my bike of today obsolete for upgrades in 5 years. So my question is what is going to come next?
Ground rules:
- I think (and surely most would agree) that changes are largely for the better. I know lots think it's a cynical conspiracy to get more money off the paying public but lets not air that here!
- E-bikes will be a growing part of the future, no arguments about whether that's a good thing or not.
- Minimise chuntering about regressive steps (things like gravel is just 90's XC etc...).
My bet is 2x gear systems will come back - sold on the basis of bigger range with fewer gaps
haha sorry TJ my edit was not aimed at you, I'll allow that. My intent was to deter too much cyncism but that was a valid submission 🙂
I think there will another attempt to replace saddle rails for something incompatible with current model and probably some new standards for BBs, brake attachments and axles.
My bet is 2x gear systems will come back – sold on the basis of bigger range with fewer gaps
1x allows vastly more leeway in terms of tyre clearance and suspension adjustment. Putting a front mech on there ties you into having a tube in a certain place above the chainset to mount the front mech on and that really interferes with pivots and big tyres.
You might get an enterprising marketing type sell 1x chainsets with 2 or more rings for "the ultimate in trail set-up customisation" or some such bollocks but it'd still be a job you'd do at home to swap a chainring.
I wonder if wireless / fly by wire brakes would ever be a thing? No more bleeding hoses and having messy hose routing out the front. It works with gears but I imagine there'd be a lot of safety concerns to overcome without a physical connection between lever and caliper!
I wonder if this Shimano gearbox will come to fruition? That might push them from niche to mainstream (maybe because I'd really like one)
Obviously more ebikes, maybe lower power ones that just give a little boost to help you ride further.
Something I've been banging on about for ages is integrated, adjustable suspension. Maybe triggered by a dropper lever. When the seat is down then downhill mode, fully up is climbing mode, mid is pedaling but active. It can adjust the damping and even the geometry to suit. Not that hard with current tech.
Different chain pitch - the standard 1/2” chain has been around forever and is pretty much the only thing (apart from its width) that hasnt been messed about with. Its about time SRAM introduced a smaller pitch standard.
1x allows vastly more leeway in terms of tyre clearance and suspension adjustment. Putting a front mech on there....
Maybe a 2x with a simple hub gear. Still 1x at the front but a simple change from high to low in the rear hub.
Front mechs are never coming back, for starters there's nowhere to put them!
More electronics. Shocks with built in telemetry that talk to an app, SRAM seem to have the market cornered here with shockwiz, tyrewiz, and AXS. They just need to build shockwiz into the shocks/forks.
More gearbox bikes, and e-bikes with gearboxes. I'm surprised there's not more, but I can see Shimano/Bosch coming out with a gearbox motor, given the rapidly reducing e-bike motor size.
More and more silent hubs - I love the buzz of a freehub, but a silent hub is also nice.
I'll throw mine in that I think I've said before. I'd like to see an integrated mudguard mounting standard, I think it's starting to come in for certain forks but it would be good to have it on frames as well. Not exactly a groundbreaking change though I suppose.
I don't think 2x will ever come back to off road full suss in any manufacturers catalogue. But may reappear in commuting of hybrids. Doubt it though. Front mech is a thing of the past.
E-bikes will take over the world though (it's already starting to happen as commuters and utility bikers realise the benefits) . I don't think non assisted bikes will ever go away, but they will become ever more niche.
electronic remote shifting to be the next big trickle down. couple of years it'll be sub £1000, and couple years after that some one (Microshift or Box or new player) will do a wireless 12 speed for £500.
More electronics as said, run off the battery, when they're all e bikes.
It's the future.
Fixed. Its the future, I've tasted it.
More gearbox bikes, and e-bikes with gearboxes. I’m surprised there’s not more
I wonder just how much more expensive at manufacturing price points a gearbox over a mech actually is? I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's close to the unit profit point (built bike). Other wise it would've happened already.
I think the approach to pricing and accessibility of the sport will change, especially as emtb becomes more and more mainstream. I can see more non-E bikes being sold with great kit and geometry at the lower end; there does seem to be a much greater embracing of cheaper brands as good bikes over recent years (Vitus, Bird etc).
More expensive bikes could easily schism into either Emtbs for many users, or "race bikes" for those who compete/would like to, with the resulting smaller range of choice for the latter. There will always be niches and small manufacturers though.
Oh yeah, forgot...Flat mount brakes will be the new standard, Give it 3-5 years tops
My bet would be that a gearbox and motor would have the same attachment, and so (battery mount aside), one frame could do both and significantly the development cost.
....then gearboxes will come in
regenerative breaking for ebikes
I think geometry will eventually start to be stable more or less around current Norco Sight, Enduro or Privateer 161 levels.
Gearboxes almost certainly. We know Shimano has something in their sleeves and Nicolai was hinting something relevant on the Pinkbike interview.
Like said above, more electronic stuff
The weight theme might also start to be shown as relevant again. I might be wrong, but I think I'm seeing weight to slowly creep into some press releases lately.
My bet would be that a gearbox and motor would have the same attachment, and so (battery mount aside), one frame could do both and significantly the development cost.
….then gearboxes will come in
Definitely this!
And more electronic gear shifting at lower price points.
For E-bikes a g-box, maybe. But for normal bikes the weight is an issue. You need a new frame design which will only work with the g-box. That means the manufacture is tied to it being a success. So a big commitment from the mainstream players.
Marketing would have to force it as an improvement, its not like we are all asking for it now. Some are, but most are not.
Developement tends to be driven by need with marketing spin added to it.
I reckon we need more reliability in the stuff we already have (droppers being one). Over the last 35 yrs Ive been riding, really only discs brakes, droppers, suspension have been game changers. Once they appeared they just got better each year. Other changes like geometery, wheel size have improved riding, not changed it. But generally stuff has just got better and more reliable.
I just see incremental improvements, not ground changing stuff. Its still a bike powered by the rider.
Makes perfect sense for someone to build a combined ebike motor and gearbox, some motors are/were already disconnected between chainring and cranks already, gearboxes tend to be sealed for life with just an oil change required every couple of years. There's no reason for the output cog (aka chainring) to be on the crankset, they could make a seperate output shaft.
Is the e-bike motor mount a standard yet? If not, that'll come in so you can buy an e-frame and choose a motor and/or gearbox of your choice. With fully integrated batteries with universal connections. Maybe a big motor with a couple of gears for a self-uplift day, then swap it out for a lightweight motor + gearbox for a day of trail riding.
More high pivot trail bikes like the Forbidden Druid and Deviate Highlander.
Shimano to finally release a wireless groupset. I mean come on, they can't go wired electronic again, shurely?
I never understood why I-Beam didn't take off or get used for droppers. Great way of dropping a load of weight off the saddle/post system which you would have thought would be considered a useful saving given the weight of a dropper compared to a normal post.
Not convinced by the gearbox. Working gearboxes have been "a thing" now for 25-30 years...If they were ever going to make it, it would've happened by now. They're too heavy, too complex, too expensive, and too large.
I think we'll have more customised set up.
So for example you'll be asked for you weight when you buy a bike act the compression damping will then be set for you. You might even provide sample data from a previous ride act that will be part of the setup as well.
I think the Atherton style custom thing will be bigger as current frames are harder to fine tune with with stem length etc.
I think more things being triggered but the dropper button makes sense. Good call Nickjb
Do you think we'll see an ebike that is sort of modular. So you can drop out the motor and battery for up lift days
Integrated storage
I thought gearbox bikes had their day about 10 years ago. They mostly all then fizzled out. Are their still any belt drive bikes around. There was a time when they were going to be the future.ithink electronic shifting might be the next trial but I doubt it will be big news on mtb bikes. I think lightweight enduro bikes will be next.
I thought gearbox bikes had their day about 10 years ago. They mostly all then fizzled out
There's always been a few around, problem is they have a number of drawbacks, as nickc has said.
If a big player like SRAM or Shimano started developing one however, that would change things.
I think we’ll have more customised set up.
that’ll come in so you can buy an e-frame and choose a motor and/or gearbox of your choice
This sort of thing I really can't see. Long term I think you're looking at more catalogue choice, less customisation, more proprietary non user serviceable kit.
Sure there's a fair number of us who like to tinker, move parts across and upgrade things but when you look around that's not the way the world works. We're the classic car or valve radio enthusiasts.
Most people want to look at something, thinks "oh that's nice" buy it, use it for a few years (maybe pay someone else to maintain it) then buy a new one when they're bored.
Wheel sizes which suit a specific bike but not another? Why not? Outside of the enthusiast market most people don't care. Forks that only got one frame but look damn good? Sure.
We're getting there already with custom off sets and all sorts of things. Motors, batteries, gear boxes*, why make them interchangeable when you can just make them work instead?
Yeah people gripe that their Honda civic needs a different exhaust to their jazz but they don't actually care and buy them anyway.
On the other hand very few people buy cars or anything else with generic kit and long term I can't see bikes being any different.
Ingegrated droppers, roadies have ISPs so why dont MTB's? Could be as simple as standardizing the insertion depth and diameter so dropper posts no longer needed the lower portion to be structural, just a bit of thin carbon tube to hold the bushings and actuator in the right place.
Weight weenie ing is due a comeback in the mid range. Expensive bikes are still quite light but I think mid range stuff like SlX/NX which looks like the high end version but weighs a ton will need to change. XX1 is lighter than 2x, but SX certainly isnt!
I never understood why I-Beam didn’t take off or get used for droppers. Great way of dropping a load of weight off the saddle/post system which you would have thought would be considered a useful saving given the weight of a dropper compared to a normal post.
It was really stiff, thats what an actual I beam is for in construction! The saddle rails and body flex quite a lot, making the rails solid and mounting the saddle directly too them wasn't great.
I think Selle Italia came up with a variation that only attached front and back which was probably better, but was really exoensive and never caught on.
Twin disc set up on the front. Which will also bring in a new hub standard, something like Boost++, and a new fork design with 38/40mm forks
Lightness at a decent price point. Bikes are getting better but get much porkier.
If a big player like SRAM or Shimano started developing one however, that would change things.
I'm not sure it would, it'll only ever be a niche product unless they can get it down to the price of tourney or what ever non series stuff you see on a 300 bso.
You don't develop something like axs thinking "oh look what we can do for £1200" you do it thinking "in 10 years we'll have this down to £100".
If you can't see the end of the development at mass market it's not worth the trouble.
They might have a go but it'll be no different to hammerschmidt
Lightness at a decent price point. Bikes are getting better but get much porkier.
Thankfully we've come away from this thinking, and realised that weight isn't the big factor it used to be, there's much more to how good a bike rides than just weight. And people are also riding stuff a lot more regularly that requires a more robust bike.
@RustyNissanPrairie Different chain pitch - I think we'll see some moves on this if derailleur development continues along its current lines.
There's a point at which you can no longer squeeze in extra cogs on a cassette and have a reasonable chainline. One way would be smaller dimension chains.
Shimano had a go at this in the 1970s with 10mm pitch.
Fixed riders loved it, and these days if you have some 10mm chain in stock, they'll sell their granny to get their hands on it.
http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7098&g2_serialNumber=2
Maybe it's time for NanoDrive!
I don't see 2x drivetrains coming back. People theorised about jumps but I've not really noticed people complain in the real world.
The bike industry has proven it can't be trusted with press fit tolerances so threaded will be around for a good while longer.
Gearboxes possibly. I think the big difference is that I believe Shimano will still be chain driven rather than meshed.
Flat mount is possibly coming simply because there's nothing wrong with post mount.
Mullet bikes will come. Time will tell whether they stay.
Geometry may slow, maybe even come back a bit as people find they actually do more riding "along" than the media suggest we do. It's not all charging down with your balls on fire.
Geometry may slow, maybe even come back a bit as people find they actually do more riding “along” than the media suggest we do. It’s not all charging down with your balls on fire
That's why you need a down gravel bike too.
More smart app related bollox like: your bike will change gear automatically into the optimal gear to get a PB on a Strava segment & suspension that automatically adjusts to optimum for a section of trail based on previous runs.
Mainstream T47.
Flat mount is possibly coming simply because there’s nothing wrong with post mount.
Haha, hear you. I think it's it's coming because: why make two standards? Plus Shimano just released flat mount MTB brakes in all ranges (SLX- XTR) all at once, and roadies don't want post mount and it doesn't matter for MTB...
My bet is 2x gear systems will come back – sold on the basis of bigger range with fewer gaps
That was the first thing I thought of! I've seen 12 gears announced as the next big technical innovation twice in my life so far, so it doesn't seem impossible it might happen again...
There's a really good interview on Pinkbike with Kalle Nicolai. This bit sounds very much liek the future.
I want to give you a little bit of input on our new gearbox bike. Gearbox bikes in the past were pretty heavy, and the weight penalty and the penalty on efficiency always made it so that these bikes were not useful in every situation. We were always looking for the gearbox mountain bike that was able to beat the derailleur bike. You put the two bikes together, and our goal is to design a bike that is around one and a half pounds heavier [750g], but not more.
We are on our way. I won’t tell you the details yet, but we’re testing at the moment and we are quite happy with the results. We will launch it as soon as soon as we are ready.
Standardizing on metric sizes is the obvious thing to bring the sport into the 20th century. 25 mm chain pitch, 35 mm handlebars, steerers that taper from 40 mm to 30 mm, etc. Amazed that nobody's done this already.
thisisnotaspoon
Ingegrated droppers, roadies have ISPs so why dont MTB’s? Could be as simple as standardizing the insertion depth and diameter so dropper posts no longer needed the lower portion to be structural, just a bit of thin carbon tube to hold the bushings and actuator in the right place.
Been done: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/eightpins-ngs1-integrated-dropper-post-review.html
Its about time SRAM introduced a smaller pitch standard.
I am pretty sure shimano already tried it. Was there not a 10mm pitch?
TBH, it doesn't matter that Nicolai is making a gearbox for MTB As was said in the previous page: 99% of bike production is BSO, gearboxes need to compete in that market against a stamped product that can be made for pennies.
* I'm sure it will be excellent and he'll still just maybe sell a 100 a year (If that)
I am pretty sure shimano already tried it. Was there not a 10mm pitch?
Yeah, that's right. Wasn't a great success. I reckon it would work now though as chains are far more specific to gears. Would make for a smaller, lighter cassette
Something I would like to see on all bikes is a splined steerer tube and stem.
Could see it adding a bit of weight and may seem overkill, but at least your bars would always be 100% lined up with the front wheel and not out of line a few degrees because you didn't line it up properly when tightening your stem up.
Or maybe that is just me and my dodgy eyes, that thinks this as an issue!
Sidecars.
That’s why you need a down gravel bike too.
Ah yes, more niches/blurring of categories.
Upenduro
Crosstrail
Endurohill
Burly enduro bikes, but with 120mm travel
Mega travel, 180-200mm enduro bikes with dual crown forks but 12 speed gears and can climb
full suspension drop bar 120mm travel bikes
nickc
Subscriber
TBH, it doesn’t matter that Nicolai is making a gearbox for MTB As was said in the previous page: 99% of bike production is BSO, gearboxes need to compete in that market against a stamped product that can be made for pennies.
I thought future developments in MTB might be relevant to a thread on the future of MTB.
sbtouring
Member
Something I would like to see on all bikes is a splined steerer tube and stem.
Not alone, it's dfinitely much harder as stems get shorter, I spend ages lining up 35mm ones.
Splining them does present some challenges as it's hard to ensure the splines are aligned to the chassis - the steerer tube would have to be pressed into the crown with precise alignment which would be tricky and expensive - but it would be nice if they could just add a visible centre line on the steerer, maybe laser etch them after assembly.
Trimix
For E-bikes a g-box, maybe. But for normal bikes the weight is an issue. You need a new frame design which will only work with the g-box.
Wonder if you could make that modular? Unbolt your gearbox, fit an electric motor and battery. Two in one.
Been done: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/eightpins-ngs1-integrated-dropper-post-review.html/blockquote >
Yea, I knew of the liteville one, but no one else seems to have picked it up as a 'standard'. And it still looks like it could be more integrated. I'm surprised Cannondale weren't the first TBH, needle bearings and integrated stuff are their hallmarks.
Having been a full time roadie for years over the last few I've been reminded of how much I like a bit of off road xc jeycore lite by getting a gravel bike.... then I look at MTB and all these big burly bikes and jumps just dont do it for me and I dont want an ultra light xc race machine either, so I predict a rise in non competitive xc type bikes and events.
I'd still like to see a lightweight 160mm ish dual crown fork for trail/enduro riding.
Surely we're getting to the point where a smaller diameter but longer, dual clamped, crown would be a similar weight but stiffer and less seal friction.
Those pink bike Huck to flat videos are frightening, especially on the 29ers.
99% of bike production is BSO, gearboxes need to compete in that market against a stamped product that can be made for pennies.
Dropper posts.
MTB developments, and BSO 'development' are 2 very different areas of cycling. Is there any actual development done in the BSO market? Surely it just takes the 3/4/5 year old stuff that can be now be made for pennies and uses that, and trickles down technology from the high end stuff, so clutch mechs, 10/11 speed etc.
1x allows vastly more leeway in terms of tyre clearance and suspension adjustment. Putting a front mech on there ties you into having a tube in a certain place above the chainset to mount the front mech on and that really interferes with pivots and big tyres.
There was HammerSchmidt for a while wasn't there? I believe it gave 2 front gears with a single ring, although it never caught on.
I don't know whether if would be possible to design something that was affordable, reliable and efficient.
I thought future developments in MTB might be relevant to a thread on the future of MTB.
Touche...That article also goes on to say Nicolai sells maybe 1200 units a year. Nicolai is a v niche, v high end custom bike builder, He might build a very nice gearbox driven bike, but then he can do that already, and with belt drive and with any other niche thing you could possible want...But it doesn't change the fact that gearboxes probably aren't going to be the future for MTB.
nickc
But it doesn’t change the fact that gearboxes probably aren’t going to be the future for MTB.
Your point about BSOs is just irrelevant. New developments don't happen in that space. DIsc brakes, suspension forks, droppers, all that stuff appeared on high end bikes costing thousands more than the average BSO. But walk into Halfords now, and you'll see cheap bikes with all those things.
Gearboxes and electronics will be no different in time. You know, in the future.
MTB developments, and BSO ‘development’ are 2 very different areas of cycling
While i don't disagree, it's a circular development life rather than one way traffic. Without the BSO market there is no MTB market. While the technology clearly goes downwards, the mass production of those items funds the development of future technology, which in turn gets developed to a point where it can be massed produced for pennies so it can go onto BSO, which provides the profit margin for the development of MTB markets...and so on.
Something I would like to see on all bikes is a splined steerer tube and stem.
Was just thinking that threadless headsets have been largely untinkered with for a while. Obviously how you mount bearings in the frame is still an inconsistent mess, and the switch to tapered did a good job of breaking compatibility, but the stem/spacers/cap arrangement has been pretty standard for a bit too long.
And stem alignment annoys me too. Somehow misalignment is impossible to gauge when working on the bike, but becomes un-ignorable 30 seconds into a ride.
Your point about BSOs is just irrelevant.
Cost of new development is huge...mega money...Where does Shimano's profit come from? Clue; it's not XTR.
See any number of discussions about why more MTB don't have gearboxes...Because you can make them cheaply enough. Gearboxes have been around fro decades now, if they could be made cheaply, some-one would've done it by now. And saying "the future" isn't going to change that.
99% of bike production is BSO, gearboxes need to compete in that market against a stamped product that can be made for pennies.
Hub gears are pretty universal in the euro tourer / utility market - which is huge compared to sporty MTBs
“Not alone, it’s dfinitely much harder as stems get shorter, I spend ages lining up 35mm ones.”
Line your handlebars up with your fork crown - so much easier!!!
While i don’t disagree, it’s a circular development life rather than one way traffic. Without the BSO market there is no MTB market. While the technology clearly goes downwards, the mass production of those items funds the development of future technology, which in turn gets developed to a point where it can be massed produced for pennies so it can go onto BSO, which provides the profit margin for the development of MTB markets…and so on.
Completely agree.
Still, a product that won't ever compete in the BSO market (well, not for 10+ years) would still get developed. I still think it'll need company with the R&D budget of Shimano or SRAM to bring the gearbox to a viable option.
The derailleur was invented 100 years ago, it's about time someone came up with something better!
“Gearboxes have been around fro decades now, if they could be made cheaply, some-one would’ve done it by now. And saying “the future” isn’t going to change that.”
Derailleur gears have been done for over a century. But it still took decades for MTBs to progress from 5 speed cassettes to 12 speed cassettes with wide enough range to get rid of the front mech.
Also, the world of expensive bikes has changed radically in the last few years because of ebikes. Gearboxes have great potential with ebikes.
Your point about BSOs is just irrelevant. New developments don’t happen in that space. DIsc brakes, suspension forks, droppers, all that stuff appeared on high end bikes costing thousands more than the average BSO. But walk into Halfords now, and you’ll see cheap bikes with all those things.
Which space do you think they happen *for* though? See car manufacturers pushing for formula E, it's not done because they want to race expensive electric cars more than petrol ones, it's done because they see the mass sales of ICE as a dead end and e cars aren't.
The expensive stuff is developed because they see a market for the cheap ones in years but it takes a long time.
Dropper posts
Not even present on every high end bike yet, but equally you're now seeing them on 1 and a bit k bikes.
My first dropper was about 300 quid 12 plus years ago, you'd not have seen one on a 6k bike then.
nickc
Cost of new development is huge…mega money…Where does Shimano’s profit come from? Clue; it’s not XTR.
See any number of discussions about why more MTB don’t have gearboxes…Because you can make them cheaply enough. Gearboxes have been around fro decades now, if they could be made cheaply, some-one would’ve done it by now. And saying “the future” isn’t going to change that.
Cost of development is high - but that development is still happening, as Nicolai and Shimano's new patents prove. They're working on this stuff.
I didn't say they were cheap, they're not right now. But if they come to market with low weight and less drag, even at a high price point, they'll sell, and that will drive further development and refinement, and trickle down from there.
If your irrelevant ramble about BSOs was relevant, then Di2, AXS, Power Meters and a host of other stuff wouldn't exist.
Hub gears are pretty universal in the euro tourer / utility market – which is huge compared to sporty MTBs
Why would you replace hub gears on one of those with a gear box?
Cost of development is high – but that development is still happening, as Nicolai and Shimano’s new patents prove. They’re working on this stuff.
How long ago did shimano patent 13 speed? (could have been 12,the answer is donkey's years either way)
There's a patent from British rail for a flying saucer for christ's sake.
People have been working on things for years, that doesn't mean they're not rubbish or they're actually going to happen.
All I know is that if a company brought out a small, light gearbox, with little to no drag, that was available on a wide range of bikes, that had normal trigger style and/or electronic shifting, and a 500%+ gear range...
I'd be all over the that like a dog lapping up it's own sick. Mmmm.
😀
The pinion gripshift shows how little development has been put into them as of yet.
what Paul said! 😀
I'd completely overlooked somebody cracking a decent gearbox design when I started this thread but that I am excited by. Obviously I share some doubts about it happening but I live in hope!
Also related to this discussion....Why is a good percentage of this forum obsessed (and I use the word advisedly) with compatibility?
Why should bicycle bits in 2020 fit bicycles made in 2010 (or older) I've never really understood it.
If your irrelevant ramble about BSOs was relevant, then Di2, AXS, Power Meters and a host of other stuff wouldn’t exist.
If BSO didn't exist, then none of that stuff would've made it to market at all. the development money for Di2 comes from sales of non branded shimano derailleurs/brakes, chainsets etc made in their hundreds of thousands in Vietnam and Thailand.
All I know is that if a company brought out a small, light gearbox, with little to no drag, that was available on a wide range of bikes, that had normal trigger style and/or electronic shifting, and a 500%+ gear range…
In lots of ways capitalism is much like evolution, in that it uses "good enough" rather than "perfection" as it's template. why develop a gearbox to replicate what a mech and cassette do already?
What I don't get is why hasn't the Honda DH bike solution made it into production...All the benefits of both; in a box fixable at home, understandable componentry for the home mechanic, fewer new parts to make, less exposed to dirt and damage..?
Splined steer tube, not for me. I want things to move a little when I crash.
dangerousbrain - I thought in the context of this discussion hub gears were gearboxes?
ebikes will become more integrated. There never going to move to a universal motor mounting for example Everything will be sealed and dealer only.
i think wireless suspension will be a thing in a few years. select enduro or uphill changes the feel of the bike.
bike financing will be a thing soon surely. ie rent it for 3 years and then trade it in....
dangeourbrain
People have been working on things for years, that doesn’t mean they’re not rubbish or they’re actually going to happen.
Nicolai's new one is launching shortly, according to them. My only point was that there's lots of development and innovation happening in the gearbox space, as people try to improve the existing ones. If you don't see Shimano's patent as evidence of that, fair enough, but there are lots of other examples of peopel launching bikes and products. And e-bikes will only speed it along.