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After spending way too much time sourcing my frame I've now come to the conclusion that I'd be better off having the BB shell faced as the cranks are binding more than I'm comfortable with.
Trouble is I've phoned around half a dozen LBS's and the majority don't have the tools whilst the remaining can't fit me in till mid-April (it's a 10min job!!)
Does anyone have any good leads for a shop in the South Downs area, ideally near Shoreham/Brighton?
Or does anyone here have the tools, live locally and perhaps need beer tokens?..
I'd check facing is the issue before forking out to get it done. See if a local engineer can check the concentricity
What BB is it. If it's threaded it's fairly easy to check alignment as you can thread in from one end without fully torquing it up and see how concentric the centre spacer is to the threads on the other side (or push the axle through.
Harder with pushfit as you need to press those in
BB was working fine on previous bike(s). My hunch strongly leans towards thick paint on new frame causing tolerance issue.
TBH, I just want to build the bloody thing so sooner I can face it the better (or worse)
What BB is it. If it’s threaded it’s fairly easy to check alignment
Hope external (24mm) with Raceface Aeffect cranks.
If it's threaded then the facing probably won't be the main issue (as the threads align the BB).
You can thread in each side until it just bottoms out on the frame and see if it's square (is there a gap around it's circumference?), but without a datum this doesn't tell you if the BB faces are off or the threads aren't perpendicular and/or aligned.
But easy enough to roughly check alignment on threaded as above
I read this as ‘anywhere to get shit faced near South Downs’.
facing probably won’t be the main issue (as the threads align the BB).
I'm afraid I disagree. Threads don't fully align the BB as they have tolerance built in, plus external BB shells are soft as the proverbial and deform under torsion. Having to over tighten in order to seat the cup sufficiently (against lumpy paintwork, for example) is enough to cause misalignment/deformation as far as I'm concerned - I've read all the arguments against facing the BB shell but I don't subscribe to many of them.
I read this as ‘anywhere to get shit faced near South Downs’.
Every night is shit faced night during lockdown in the South downs
Enigma in Hailsham if they can fit you in at the mo. Jim there is really helpful
The bike side in partridge green.
Southdowns bikes in storrington
I don’t know that he has the facing tools or how busy he is but JP who owned Quest until shutting up shop may be worth asking. Instagram suggests he’s still working post shop, Worthing area
https://www.instagram.com/questadventure/
Threads don’t fully align the BB as they have tolerance built in, plus external BB shells are soft as the proverbial and deform under torsion. Having to over tighten in order to seat the cup sufficiently (against lumpy paintwork, for example) is enough to cause misalignment/deformation as far as I’m concerned – I’ve read all the arguments against facing the BB shell but I don’t subscribe to many of them.
Which facing tool would you recommend?
Slimjim said Threads don’t fully align the BB as they have tolerance built in,
Yet every one of the BB facing tools relies the threads to align it.
BB facing is circular logic bull shit.
If the BB was faced on milling machine then you could argue it was good, but using these BB facing tools is just compounding any perceived error.
This indicates that a facing tool locates on both sides but be interesting to know how much tolerance is in the 'axle' when you push the tool through the collars that locate on the BB threads. You could still have the same problem with a 'faced' BB, although I assume the tool should sort of 'average out' any error.
A BB thread will have some float but from my experience it doesn't make a huge difference.
On an old hardtail of mine the BB was visibly off centre (cartridge so easy to spot) from the NDS as you threaded it through from the DS, which made the plastic sleeve very hard to fit and must have been putting a lot of stress on the threads. As it was a cartridge it didn't really matter, but an external BB would have been different, as like you say, the shell deforms relatively easily.
Have you tried Paul at Rule 5? He's doing mobile stuff.
BB facing is circular logic bull shit.
Like in said, I disagree. In fact, I find those against facing generally tend to have even less of an idea behind the engineering as those they ridicule.
who owned Quest until shutting up shop may be worth asking.
Cheers ill check out his Insta.
Thanks for the recommendations folks
Like in said, I disagree. In fact, I find those against facing generally tend to have even less of an idea behind the engineering as those they ridicule.
Are you an engineer?
Who's ridiculing anyone?
Try South Coast Bikes in Hove/Southwick: https://www.southcoastbikes.co.uk
The facing tools obviously rely on the BB threads - they ensure that the faces are perpendicular to the threads. The tools I’ve used bottom out on the threads so that there is no play. Only tool I’ve used which is dubious was the Park combined chasing and facing tool - the chasing inserts that the facing element relies on move in the BB, so it doesn’t reassure in use.
You said
Threads don’t fully align the BB as they have tolerance built in,
and
The facing tools obviously rely on the BB threads – they ensure that the faces are perpendicular to the threads.
These things are obviously contradictory, and the bottom out thing, well so does your BB.
Like I said, if you milled and mic-ed up the bb in an engineering workshop then fine maybe facing might contribute something, but all the facing tools shown so far just compound any error. There is so much slop and tolerance in them, that the cutting tool will align to the existing BBface, unless the face is more out of tolerance than the max added tolerances in the tool. But then the tool will just cut at max skew for its tolerances.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you to spend your money however you like, it creates jobs and opportunities for all. But don't be deluding yourself that its necessary.
I said the latter and not the former.
BB’s bottom out on the face of the shell which is why it needs to be square for the outboard bearing tyoes as they deform taking them out of line if the faces are out. Facing tool inserts don’t.
As I said, I don’t have confidence in the combi Park Chase and Face tool, but others I’ve used are good. Shimano have always recommended facing BB shells for HTII set ups, despite the fact that they don’t make a tool, so don’t financially benefit from the process - they recommend it because it’s often beneficial.
I was talking to slimjim not silly oldman, apolgies, I have read your names as the same...?
Either way if you think the thread tolerance allows the bb shell to move, that same tolerance will affect the alignment of the facing tool by exactly the same process.
No - different people. You said that one person had made both those statements which isn’t the case. I assumed that you were aiming your comments at the OP, and had mis-read my name as his hence the clarification.
I didn’t say that there was thread tolerance, but did say that the inserts bottom out giving stability in the threads.
yes indeed.