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the way i see it, i'm in it for the fun, not the medals nor glory (well, maybe just a little).
can you buy EPO or some other performance drug/supplement to help on big days out?
You know these drugs are banned because they damage people, not just because they give a competitive advantage?
Internet. A journalist took some a few years back for a story, sounds brilliant (if expensive) 😃
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32983932
flippant response: lots of drugs are banned. never stopped me in the past....
considered response: other than full-on Dr. Ferrari style doping programme are there any supplements that will give me a boost for the weekend?
Was there not something in one of the papers (Guardian?) where someone started down that track but then ended up taking various other drugs to counteract the side effects of the first one etc. Blood doping might be your easiest way...
get an ebike
other than full-on Dr. Ferrari style doping programme are there any supplements that will give me a boost for the weekend?
A recent week's worth of prednisolone (steroid) for a chest infection felt awesome. Got to 50 miles on one of the days and felt fresh as a daisy.
Can only imagine just how good a triamcinolone jab would feel.
Check out Icarus on Netflix for an amateur trying to dope like a pro.
Ride more, so you’re fitter.
Or ebike.
Kouign amann and strong coffee.
Brilliant idea for a thread.
Creatin used to be a thing didn't it? And I think you can that over the counter.
I recall someone else experimenting with a number of banned substances to see what improvements they made. At the end of it he concluded that the one thing he would like to be able to take was Human Growth Hormone. Once he started on that he was also able to stop using his reading glasses and didn't feel any ill effects. Most of the other stuff had unpleasant side effects.
I’ve been micro dosing on IPA, I feel awesome but I can’t ride in a straight line...
Can’t you just get an asthma inhaler?
Got a 30000iu subcutaneous epoetin beta syringe sitting in my fridge, but it's mine....all mine...Mwarrr....Harrr...Harrrr.....Harrr (that was meant to be an evil superhero laugh), my blood counts were playing up last year due to ms related kidney infection problems and i self dosed with the stuff, i didn't notice any difference in my cycling but then again i do ride a throttled ebike as peddling a normal bike is impossible so i'm prob the wrong person to comment on it's effectiveness
I can get some right good base, it'll feel like your going fsster, 😂😂
Creatin used to be a thing didn’t it? And I think you can that over the counter.
Creatin isn't what he's after, it also occurs naturally in muscle, so red meat etc. It gives your muscles the ability to work a bit harder, like a few percent.
Can be bought from any supplement shop, Holland and Barrett etc.
Drugs are bad, mkay?
If you're going down the performance enhancing option for a weekend away then it's probably far safer to your health if you borrow an Ebike and opt for a quiet post-ride bifta somewhere scenic to unwind afterward.
I used to go riding with a guy from work. He is 20yrs younger than me, and he could always leave me, especially on a hill.
One evening, i took two energy gels before we set off, complete with caffeine.
I didn’t really notice any difference, but he admitted to me later that he’d been trying to drop me for the whole ride.
So, energy gel with caffeine,
Or get fitter, or ebike . .
Creatin used to be a thing didn’t it? And I think you can that over the counter.
It has well researched benefits but it won't turn you into superman like drugs will.
I recall someone else experimenting with a number of banned substances to see what improvements they made. At the end of it he concluded that the one thing he would like to be able to take was Human Growth Hormone. Once he started on that he was also able to stop using his reading glasses and didn’t feel any ill effects. Most of the other stuff had unpleasant side effects.
https://cyclingtips.com/2009/11/drugs-a-cautionary-tale/HGH does sound like the drug you'd want to take.
There's other ways to maximise what nature gives you too though. If you believe Tim Ferris's then there's mileage in a high cholesterol diet as it's required to synthesise testosterone in the body.
Then there's the "I'm not sure if it's illegal but it's not natural" stuff like GABA, which IIRC results in increased HGH levels. Also gives you a nice tingly sensation and the best nights sleep ever!
My housemate used to do this stuff, he was always built like a brick shithouse so between the supplements and his gym routine something was working. Then he went all out with the drugs and the gains were an order of magnitude!
Stopping smoking, riding more, fueling your body with sports drinks whilst riding, caffeine, or getting n E-bike are probably more effective though. I don't usually use carb drinks, so when I take one on a long ride it certainly feels like rocket fuel!
[edit] basically what they said while i was typing
Awesome 👍👍
Do it, post pics 🧟♂️😱🤯👍👍👍👍👍
Creatin isn’t what he’s after, it also occurs naturally in muscle, so red meat etc
or some other performance drug/supplement to help on big days out?
Caffeine energy drink.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19403954
Ketone Ester drink..... https://hvmn.com/blog/exogenous-ketones/how-do-exogenous-ketones-affect-athletic-performance
No golden ticket or shortcut really though.
Watch Icarus, then have a good think. Possibly a new experience for you.
No ebikes.... I've got some dignity, thanks.
And not evening primrose oil, either.
Don't want to change my lifestyle and get into a routine of gym and training.
Just a pick me up that I can pop before a ride.
Started watching Icarus, but got a bit bored with the whole Russian doctor so turned it off.
POM medicines are POM for a reason. Some of these have possible benefits for endurance comeptitive sport. That does not make their personal use for non-competitive sport illegal, perhaps ill-judged, but not illegal.
EPO may have some benefits, particularly with maintaining a high training load over longer periods. But if you want something for "a big day out", I'd recommend caffeine gels. The half-life of caffeine is six hours, so taking 50-80 mg every two hours will lead to some accumulation, that will have metabolic benefits. A dose of 50 mg is a single tablet. The standard "double esspresso" dose is 80 mg (also one can of red bull).
A single dose of EPO will have no benefit whatsoever, but Ferrari was a decent Clinical Pharmacologist.
Just taking drugs won't work unless you have a committed training plan for the body to soak them up and build them into muscle and/or strip the fat off you
also the side effects - short term and long term - need to be considered as well. Most people who do roids end up fat with a dodgy heart and reduced cognitive functions in later life.
ust a pick me up that I can pop before a ride.
That's cocaine isn't it?
No ebikes…. I’ve got some dignity, thanks.
Says the man who fancies doping.
That’s cocaine isn’t it?
I was thinking that. You probably won't go any faster, it'll just feel like you are.
How about researching what Froome did on last year's Giro?
then have a good think. Possibly a new experience for you.
[s] Bravo [/s] Meow!
Heres a complete list of supplements for endurance sports
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/the-top-7-supplements-to-boost-endurance-performance.html
Amyl nitrate. I don't think you'll go any faster, but you won't care
I was thinking that. You probably won’t go any faster, it’ll just feel like you are.
Seemed to work for a certain Italian, until it killed him.
Ask Amgen, they sponsor the tour of California and make epo, so they're bound to be sympathetic to your needs..............
No ebikes…. I’ve got some dignity, thanks.
Says the man who fancies doping.
I see this as alpin's humourous take the pee out of ebikers thread. So that was entirely the point, no?
I was thinking that. You probably won’t go any faster, it’ll just feel like you are.
Nah... That's cannabis. Don't drink and drive, ride and fly.
Was having a smoke on just about every uplift whilst in Finale last month.
Was quite happy playing about at the back of the group rather than gunning it up front playing don't-lose-sight-of-the-guide.
Oh, and riding on gak is just that, gak. Don't bother imo. Puts you too much on edge.
I'm mainlining beetroot juice at the moment, i would recommend it as it turns yer pee a very funny colour.
I see this as alpin’s humourous take the pee out of ebikers thread. So that was entirely the point, no?
Nope.
Just wondered what there is or there that will give me a bit of pep for the long climbs.
As it is, I'm not in bad shape at the moment. Not snacking, riding 25km to and from work most days and have cut down on the smokes.
Ride an ebike by all means, but they're not for me.
Having dabbled in my formative years I've often wondered what it'd be like cycling after having a pill. Get some tunes on, get pumping. Trouble is you're just as likely to stop to contemplate the beauty of nature for 30 mins so you might not get much riding done.
A friend thought he'd go full retro and mix amphetamine and champagne (this was the early nineties and we were young and skint - it would have been Lambrusco) for a club 10 to see how it felt. Intention was to DNF but close enough to the finish that he had a meaningful time to compare. He ended up half a mile from the finish in a ditch thinking he was having a heart attack and too afraid to ask for help because he knew how wired he looked.
I don't advise.
^ I lol'd.
This article is fascinating. It will of course, make you super keen to try growth hormone, testosterone and EPO.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test
And I'm not quite sure how DezB thinks my one flippant remark about ebikes makes this a snide dig at ebikes.... 🤔
Creatine will make you retain water so makes you heavier..not ideal for cycling up hills.
I read a tale about how the tdf doctors had to wake the riders up in the middle of the night to get them on the turbo for 20 min so their blood wouldn't solidify due to all the epo they'd been taking. If you have a wife who is prepared to do this for you then fill your boots..
Sodium thiopental?
Maybe you’d realise that the truth is sometimes you just have to do the work to get the benefit.
I actually looked into this a while ago, I have absolutely no moral qualms about taking (performance enhancing) drugs to increase my enjoyment of sports, especially as I get older testosterone replacement therapy seems quite attractive, even just to slow the decline into old age.
It isn't that hard to get hold of stuff online, there are forums (mainly for bodybuilding) where if you do your research you can find the genuine suppliers. Obviously most PED's are muscle builders so not fully suitable for cycling. However it should be noted that what most PEDS do is allow you to train hard then recover faster, allowing you to improve through hard work, they are not a shortcut, so for cycling they would allow you to cycle more frequently and harder, but it will not be "easier".
EPO was quite expensive, prohibitively so.
TRT is the one that made most sense IMO, but I think for me I would want to be supervised by a doctor, it is actually pretty safe as long as you know what you are getting is legit, and don't overdo the dosages.
And that is where it falls down, if I could buy it from a private consultation with a doctor, get a blood test every other month, it would be safer than drinking a few glasses of wine a week and benefit me much more. But that option isn't available to me and I am not going to trust the black market so I am out.
And I’m not quite sure how DezB thinks my one flippant remark about ebikes makes this a snide dig at ebikes
Probably whatever drugs he is on making him a bit paranoid
Supplement wise, I've been taking Onnit's Shroomtech before big rides, and I've noticed a definite performance boost which is actually quite easy to evidence.
https://www.onnit.com/shroomtech-sport/
There's a lot of science blurb etc and supposed positive results from various trials but the consistent thing I've noticed is on the readings from my heart rate monitor. On rides where I don't take the Shroomtech prior to the ride, I'll regularly hit 90%+ of my max heart rate and end up blowing up on climbs.
If I do take them before a ride, then my heart rate stays low on climbs and I feel like I've got much more in the tank.
Certainly works for me and I've been using it for sometime now and I definitely feel it benefits me.
And I’m not quite sure how DezB thinks my one flippant remark about ebikes makes this a snide dig at ebikes
It just seemed more likely than you actually wanting to take EPO for pleasure.
I could grab some quotes that tie in with my theory but I can't be arsed.
Ask Amgen, they sponsor the tour of California and make epo, so they’re bound to be synthetic to your needs…………..
If I do take them before a ride, then my heart rate stays low on climbs and I feel like I’ve got much more in the tank.
Have you got power data showing that your power output hasn't also dropped with your HR?
Have you got power data showing that your power output hasn’t also dropped with your HR?
That's what I was thinking.
The earlier statement is a bit like saying your car had more left in the tank after driving at lower RPM (your legs being the gearbox in this analogy)
Ironic name too, my flatmates at uni took some shrooms, "on it" was definitely not a descriptor of their motivation levels, unless it was motivation to stare at a bit of abstract art from inches away.
if most PEDS are muscle builders this is bad as with steriod using bodybuilders your heart also grows and can cause real problems.
I am not sure about growth hormone and it's side affects ( whether it's dangerous or not ) but I would have thought it reverses old age in men and may be compared to hormone replacement therapy in ladies. This is probably not so though. Plus body builders probably take vast amounts of it to get bigger.
I remember that drugs article people are linking to being discussed on here a few years ago.
The guy reckons HGH was the best one to take long term. I particularly like the bit about old scars healing up and not needing glasses.
But then somebody on here (Njee20?) pointed out taking HGH long term will massively increase your chances of developing all sorts of cancer. That put me off a bit (plus its bloody expensive).
The PEDS that pros use are the best that they can do without getting caught. Surely if you just want max power just drop some speed? Should be fairly easy to get. Just keep dosing low to start with.
Can’t you just get an asthma inhaler?
does **** all for me lol
I could do with some TRT and HGH..
Sniff..
#iwantobemoarofamanthaniamalready
PM me...
DrP
(Ha...of course not really!! Wouldn't that be terrible!!)
Just a pick me up that I can pop before a ride.
caffeine
caffeine is a wicked performance enhancing drug
Blood transfusion can't be that difficult? Extract some blood. Save it for one of those weekends... Not sure how you get it back in but it's not rocket science, just needs squirted into a tube.
Interesting, MSP, thanks.
Mate said about blood transfusion. Bubble some oxygen through it and squirt it back in.
Could be messy, mind.
^ sounds like a soda stream would be ideal for diy blood doping 😉.....oh.......that’s carbon dioxide ain’t it?.....still, it’s probably gonna have the same effect.
Caffeine doesn't help before a ride, in my experience. Go without until you're knackered 5 hours in, then take it. That's when it has a big effect.
Meow!
Meow Meow surely?
I'm no massive hill climber, but there's no substitute for repeatedly hitting hills to make your hill climbing better.
Even if you have to get off and walk, if you keep pushing within reason, you'll get a bit further each time.
Also things like amphetamines, they might give you a slight boost, but if your muscles and vascular system isn't up to the job, you'll quickly come undone.
Have you got power data showing that your power output hasn’t also dropped with your HR?
No power data but I can Compare climbs in strava and my speed is demonstrably higher and more consistent when I supplement
Mate of mine would occasionally pop an aspirin before racing time trials.. he said your heart doesnt have to work as hard as your blood is much thinner??
Hes pretty quick like.. i dunno 🤔
Ok so a couple of years ago I got given a load of flourexatine. I went from struggling to do 10 miles to no issues with 20 overnight.
Basically I hear it's like taking coke and e
I haven't looked back since. It cant be good for you but it's better than the alternative for me.
Blooming heck !
Caffeine doesn’t help before a ride, in my experience.
A clinical pharmacologist writes... most people do not realise that after caffeine ingestion, absorption is relatively slow. Peak concentration is reached about 45 minutes after. So you won’t notice any benefit immediately after taking it.
All the pros take sis double espresso gels and will ALL be dosing heavily with an hour to go in any race.
Caffeine has several metabolic benefits. It adds 5-7 bpm to my max heart rate for one. Useful in a 25. Provided you dose an hour before the start.
PS you have to take a lot for the ergogenic effect. Doses of 8 mpk or about 500 mg have been tested. That’s 10 pro plus tablets or six double espressos. The lethal dose of caffeine was believed to be 14000 mg, but two students survived 30000 mg with emergency dialysis.
HGH and Testosterone will make you recover faster but won't give you a boost, they are used in conjunction with EPO so you can train harder and recover faster.
EPO and corticoids will likely add a few watts to your legs, but only if you train accordingly.
I don't think there is a miracle drug that gives you a boost without any training...maybe amphetamines...
I find it hard to believe youd not get a boost from HGH and upping your Testosterone levels.. Test might not be massively effective for endurance type events but enduro, downhill and any kind of sprint youd definitely have performance gains.
Just wondered what there is or there that will give me a bit of pep for the long climbs.
I think what you are after is a banana tbh!
I prescribe you 1 banana, 1 hour before said climb! 😆
Ah, just take the Tom Simpson approach. Fill up on Amphetamines and hope nothing goes 'pop'.
Worked alright for him...
All I need these days,on a big day out, are three Torq gurana gels and it's like I've had an E!
Try that.
PM me…
DrP
(Ha…of course not really!! Wouldn’t that be terrible!!)
YGM
I prescribe you 1 banana, 1 hour before said climb!
Where is he to inject this banana ?