[Closed] When will the wheel standards settle down?

When we've all bought one of each.

Being cynical it probably won't!

29 is clearly here for a while and if I didn't have a lot of pretty good 26r tyres to use up I would be tempted to sell all my 26r stuff (3 bikes worth) and go 29r one bike for everything. For what i ride - traditional xc and a trail centre trip a couple of times a year it really makes far more sense.

650b seems like something of nothing to me. If reminds me of how the old liberal democrats were shown in spitting image.

We are neither big wheels nor small wheels but somewhere in between...

Yeah, I'm not sure n the 650b thing really, Im of a mind set of going to 29er of sticking to 26 I've already got. I'm gonna demo both I hope them make my Mind up but I don't want to end up with a good bike but with a odd standard!

I will stick with my 26's probably unfairly I have made judgement on 29's without even riding one.

Its a big wheel though, I don't like my road bike, it has big wheels. I guess I'm a small wheel kinda guy. (24's are too small though for clarification)

are DH/FR bikes going 29er?

I think wheel sizes have settled down to three sizes for "Mountain Bikes". Take your pick based on preference, experience and intended use. To me all three sizes are good, just like having different sized frames for different sized people really.

looking at and larger brands Spesh, Scott are dropping the 26 wheels from the ranges.

Fast forward five years "new leap forward in stiffness and acceleration with specialized's 26" wheel mountain bikes (compatible only with specializeds new 140mm rear hub and 17.5mm bolt through front schmaxle)

It won't. Until my, patent pending, 651F comes out. That will be the new standard. Until 649G comes out.

Agreed Z11, I can remember reading MBUK as lad on how disc brakes will never go on XC bikes and 80mm of travel was extreme!!!

When the manufacturers no longer need to sell new bikes.

I don't think you'll see the demise of the 26" wheel anytime soon - you have to remember that we (the sports/leisure users of the western world) are but a tiny drop in the worldwide ocean. Your average Chinese/Indian/Far Eastern cyclist isn't looking at the same adverts as us!

Oh, and 650b has been around for 50 years or more, I believe.

Theres no real reason for them to either gravitate to one size or multiply in to dozens of sizes and standards. Theres no real reason that MTB wheels were 26" in the first place other than there being an existing finnish knobbly snow tyre that fitted an old schwinn wheel when the bikes were first dreamt up. MTBs have just had 26" wheels out of habit since.

Theres no reason why a DH bike should have the same radius rim as an XC bike, theres no reason why Mama Dirt should use the same radius of wheel as Ton. It would be perfectly sensible for there to be as many wheel sizes on offer as there are frame sizes, and for small medium and large versions of a bike to all have different size wheels. Or for small bikes to have large wheels and large bikes to have small ones. They'd all be bikes that would have their own merits

It would be perfectly sensible for there to be as many wheel sizes on offer as there are frame sizes

Except you don't have to change your frame every time you get a puncture.

It's going the way that recumbent and folding bike tyres used to be. We had:

16" (305)
16" (349) (that's two sizes called 16", almost 2" different in size)
18" (355)
17" (369) (yes, 17" tyres are bigger than 18")
450A (390)
20" (406)
500A (440)
20" (451) (again 2" bigger than the other 20")

Quite a few bikes with the obsolete sizes are pretty much unusable - if you've got a lovely old Kingcycle you're doubly stuffed as it runs 450A at the front, and an obsolete 24" size at the back.

As a way of convincing people that their current bike is old-fashioned, while simultaneously making lots more bikes that will be obsolete in a few years, it's a brilliant strategy.

The one I especially love is the manufacturers who take a frame built for 26" wheels, and shoehorn in 650B wheels with thinner tyres. The outside diameter is the same (it has to be, for clearances)...

but without all those weirdy beard wheels Ben - you wouldn't have a shop 🙂

True 🙂 It's a lot simpler now it's mostly settled down to 406 for almost all recumbents and most folders, with 349 for Bromptons - the 355 for Birdys is still a bit annoying. Only 6mm different...

...and I just got a fatbike demonstrator for the shop, so I'm just as guilty at promoting funny MTB tyre sizes as anyone.

When the manufacturers no longer need to sell new bikes.

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pah - fat is yesterdays news - its all about half-tracks now

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^^WANT!^^

That is brilliant! And proper riding attire too...

^^WANT!^^

surely you've already got a pair of plus fours flashy?

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20" (406)
...
20" (451) (again 2" bigger than the other 20")

Just to throw in another standard, I have a tyre labelled 20" here which fits on a 387 rim 😉

Oh yes, forgot them - but I can't think of any recumbents that used that size...

maccruiskeen,I would sooner slam my love spuds in a kitchen drawer than play golf!

but I can't think of any recumbents that used that size...

You must be able to have a guess what that's used on though?

Oh, and I almost forgot my 26" (571) wheels, which makes the complete collection of tyre sizes in my garage:
254
305
387
406
559
571
622

will probably add a 787 next.

not sure which of these moves is "the love spuds"

edit: think its at 1.14

I think Bencooper hits it on the head really.

Happy to go for what I like the feel of after a demo it's the future proofing, two years ago I doubt we would have though Spesh would drop 26 on all but the DH FR bikes.

I'm hoping to get some 80% off enve 26 rims as they are obsolete......... 😆

"650b seems like something of nothing to me. If reminds me of how the old liberal democrats were shown in spitting image."

Apparently this size has been introduced as you cant get enough fork travel on the 29"

You must be able to have a guess what that's used on though?

Something from Raleigh? They were awful about making up their own sizes for things.

I'm kind of disappointed Ben, given you own "one" and I gave an extra clue in the wheel size I plan to add next!

I do? Nope, can't think of anyone I own with a tyre that size 🙂

They wont there will always be TheNextBigThing(tm) coming along to try and part people away from their money

when we stop buying them

The next big thing...

Ben Cooper is such a geek it makes me feel funny inside 😀

I think Sheldon Brown sums it up best [i]"29 Inch 622mm ISO This is a marketing term for wide (700c) tires"[/i]

So enjoy your road bikes off road lads 😆

I'm kind of disappointed Ben, given you own "one" and I gave an extra clue in the wheel size I plan to add next!

Don't worry, I got it, even without knowing what size wheel they use!

It'll 'settle down', but I can't see that meaning that one, or even two 'standards' proliferate, I reckon all 3 are here to stay.

I can't understand why companies are putting their eggs all in one basket with one size or another it's crazy surely you'd provide what the customer wants not try and force them to buy what you think is the best.

I cannot work out whether it's worth getting next years norco range working at evens I get really good deals on norcos but it only comes in 650b. Surpose I could jus chuch my 26 on it but again if 650b dissappears in a year or 2 when I'm looking to sell I could be stuck with a bike that's worthless

Don't worry, I got it, even without knowing what size wheel they use!

Are we talking cars here? No, of course not - they're measured by radius not diameter.

I have tried out a 29er (about 18 months ago), which TBH did surprise me somewhat, only 100mm travel (full sus), but did feel more capable than slightly longer travel 26ers

But.... it wasn't enough to make me want to ditch my 26" wheels. For me 29ers seem to make most sense for taller riders, as I'm average height I'll pass on this one.

I'm certainly in no rush to go 650b either. Until there is a good range of tyres/rims at a reasonable price for 650b then there is little point.

At no point have I been out riding & thought 'this would be so much more fun if my wheels were slightly bigger' - I own 3 26" wheeled bikes & I'm more than happy with that 😀

As a consumer I can certainly see the appeal of 29" however I'm already happy enough with 26" so I'll not be rushing out to buy into 29" any time soon...

The current 650b push does strike me a some of the shoddiest marketing bullshit yet though (and there has been a fair bit in recent years TBH) another inbetween standard that does nothong better than either of the other two already popular existing ones?
Cheers but do **** off bicycle "industry" and get some proper new ideas....

Clearly you need another clue. IIRC yours is 507.

Not fair - I was going to say unicycle but you implied mine was 20" 🙂

Brands are all trying to stand out and create an imaginary problem using standard marketing methods. They make (and are succeeding judging by many STW comments) people think their current gear is inferior to their new version.

26 inch wheels work perfectly. 29 inch ones may last or may just get voted out by consumers wallets. Either way, whatever. It doesn't affect me as I know 26 is here to stay.

I can't see three wheel size standards lasting in the long run. I expect 650b will be a flash in the pan only.

It has settled down here, going into 5th year on 29"

Gary Fisher Introduced 29ers in 2004 IIRC, and 650B isn't that much newer, they've both just gained popularity lately.

Been exclusively 29 for about six years... For me, where I ride, and my size, it's perfect.

Looking back at all the nay saying, it's really quite amusing. I think the functionality won over a really significant public perception (hate) hurdle.

But today, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you.... The future.....

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Remarkable stuff..
The larger gap between 27.5 and 29er is evident when tires are installed. Shown here are, left to right, Michelin Wild Race'r 26x2.1 - Pacenti Neo-Moto 650Bx2.1 - WTB Nano 29x2.1

Brands are all trying to stand out and create an imaginary problem using standard marketing methods.

Not picking on you dan, just a comment that sums up many rider's feelings - I think most brands genuinely are trying to make better bikes, it's simple competition. Some try stuff without understanding, but not many. Norco as matt mentioned - I heard they discussed 650B as a must-do, then realised no-one really knew how they rode. So they rode them. And loved them. So they made them. That's how it tends to work at good bike companies. The ones that make bikes that ride poorly are probably the trend-jumpers. Sometimes bigger companies need things to get to a certain level of exposure to justify the time, try them and like them, like the garage tinkerers got into 29 or 650b in the first place.
To me, added tyre volume is a great thing. You can use bigger rims and tyres, but bigger diameter adds more again. The roll-over thing plus volume helps you go faster in more control. If it's at the expense of handling that's no good, but that happens less now that most brands understand 29er geometry better (unless you really need to throw the bike around, DJ / 4X etc).
So on my 26" bike, 650B could replace 26" - it's only a bit bigger so it may be just a 'slightly improved 26"' feel. 29" is very different and that's a good thing, lets designers give a bike a different feel or character. So 29" is a stayer. No one size is 'best', but of the 3, I expect one to fade away. The industry doesn't want the complex message of 3 wheel sizes. Much depends on what happens in DH/slopestyle stuff where the marketing is so important to the big brands. I can't see a whole field at crankworks on 650B but DH, well maybe. Perhaps it'll force a rethink of hub widths for wheel stiffness / strength, then we're onto a whole new standards debate ) Or, 650B will just be too middling for many and we'll prefer to go to one extreme or the other.

Charlie, that % angle of attack diagram is good huh. The difference is so samll in numbers that you'd almost dismiss it vs all the other gains like weight. Yet on the bike it's a very noticeable difference. Makes me wonder how much is larger wheel momentum and added volume (squish effect) added to the angle-of-attack thing. I'm not as into the physics as riding by feel so I buy into the big wheels in many areas because they do roll well.

http://www.bike198.com/tag/1950s/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pVj2--iSPA&e

The wheel size debate will settle down when the marketing asshats decide on yet another new "standard" to pursue.

/cynic

Interesting pics Charlie. Im hoping to get some test rides in, as TBH I more tempted by the 29er, to have somthing different to ride in the garage, not better just different.

I have to say that angle of incidence diagram just makes me wonder even more why all the fuss over 650b at the minute?

surely the fools that buy into it will end up either wishing they'd bought a marginally better rolling 29er or a marginally better handling 26er and their middle for diddle tyres are bound to end up costing them more than the other two otions for no real advantage....

Nah newer ain't always better.

Great post Jameso