[Closed] When man is tired of bike

My usuall advice on a 'what bike'thread is test ride loads.
I'm guessing g from the fact that you didnt get on with your Whyte that you didnt have a test? It's usually pretty obvious straight away whether you will click with a bike or not. I would never buy an expensive one without a test, maybe the cheapest of hack bikes, but never serious money.
It's tricky in these pandemic times, usually just have a go on all your mates bikes, see what you like, now, could be tricky...

What about swapping the parts onto a more XC oriented frame with smaller tyres? Or just trying some XC tyres on the Whyte.

@bjhedley Is your 905 a V1 (blue) or V2 (green)?

Both are great frames. There are also better mud/xc orientated lower volume 2.4-2.6 27.5/27.5+ tyres which do change the dynamics quite a bit.

The 901/905 has been the best balanced UK trail/hardcore orientated hardtail for a few years now especially for the price. I ride a v2 currently.

All being said, it is a far far cry from an xc bike. The weight penalty of the 905 over a decent hardtail xc bike in the £2k+ range is easily 5lbs-8lbs.

The Sirius S5 is quite a heavy frame. If you are concerned with weight then built up, the Sirius won't be dissimilar from the 905.

I would consider moving to a more mainstream xc bike from Trek, Giant, Specialized, Scott, Cube etc.

Back pain when riding can be caused by a number of factors. This may be the geometry and/or fit. It may also be related to a medical condition / fitness so depending on severity and triggers a different bike may not resolve it.

There is always the challenge of finding bikes in stock at the moment. I quite like the Giant XTC SLR 29 this year mid budget c£1600.

I find Giant, Trek, Scott and Specialized offer the most palatable fit/spec/price for jump on-ride-enjoy xc hardails. £2k-£2.5k gets you a c11.5kg Scott Scale 930 Carbon or Specialized Epic Carbon. They don't always feel the best value in finishing kit but you get great frames, light weight and good uk warranty and support.

https://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/2021-specialized-epic-hardtail-carbon-mountain-bike-in-black__40004

https://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/2021-scott-scale-930-carbon-hardtail-mountain-bike-in-yellow__40990

So many manufactures seem to focus on the trail oriented or full suspension bikes now with limited light weight hardtail xc worthy options until you start spending big money. Traditional hardtail XC has almost gone the way of road bikes.

I think perhaps you weren't the most gullible and didn't fall for the marketplace hype, just that every person has a different perspective on how adequate something is at performing a job. I think mountain bikes are often so focused on winch and plummet geometry that they forget most things in-between. I also think it can be hard to read bike reviews and decipher them as bad bikes don't seem to exist any more, there's more choice than ever and narrowing the wide spectrum of choice down is difficult without negative feedback.

I own a custom Marino hardtail, it's great on steep technical climbs and gnarly descents. It replaced a MK2 Cotic BFe which was bit rubbish for those things, however when it comes to less technical riding then the Cotic probably does the better job but I was willing to sacrifice that element.

As above, maybe a frame only might be a cheaper way to go and you can test out something without breaking the bank and can ways swap for no real loss if it still doesn't feel right.

 Or just trying some XC tyres on the Whyte.

I'd go with this to start with. My Sherpa (which ticks many of your boxes BTW) was originally kitted out with plus tyres and I immediately disliked the rolling resistance, more sluggish acceleration and more muted feel. It feels so much more playful and direct to me with some 2.3" tyres

I had a similar bike 2 years ago and sold it after 2 months and around same miles you have done over 2 years. I wanted to try one and it was great for downhills and I got KOMs on the only 2 downhill single track segments where I live (I live in gentle XC land!)

I am now back on a rigid bike with XC geometry and love it. Weights under 10kg, has light rims and light 2.25 and 2.1 tyres. Yes it is not what the most new bikes are like but most new bikes don't suit how I ride or where I ride.

Changing your tyres will make a noticeable difference but there is no getting any from the geometry but a frame swap would sort that out.

Last year I bought an Onza Jackpot complete for £699 with Revelations a great steel frame even a Reverb. Dating from 2016 so before the properly LLS marketing train really got going. Singletrack had reviewed it at the time and concluded it was a good bike but a bit expensive at £1700.
I think Onza got left behind with their "old school" geometry hence the massive price reduction. That was my only concern so I contacted them before I bought it. I had a very good reply " Well the trails we ride haven't got any steeper" 😬
Turns out it's a great bike for my type of riding and a bit like the OP I don't actually need a bike with the forks in a different postcode! In conclusion we all need to be honest with ourselves about what type of terrain we are riding. For some folks who hammer descents and are happy to push back up that's fine for everyone else who typically do about 20 miles on the Quantocks we need a different set up. BTW the Onza isn't an XC whippet far from it 150 mm fork and about 66/67 HA but it suits me fine. Horses for courses.

A sad tale, and i would like to help out. Can i have the Whyte?

I ride a 905 V1 and don't recognise your description for my type of riding (mainly Surrey Hills and Swinley) That said I am on 2.35 and 2.1 tyres and wouldn't dream of needing any wider rubber. I have 2.8's on a Longitude and that is heavy and sluggish, slow to accelerate but trucks along very comfortably for hours when loaded with the bikepacking gear. Not sure that helps you!

@cb200 2.3-2.4 work really well on the 905.

The 2018 901 ran Maxxis Forekaster 2.6 tyres and was notably lighter (no dropper either) and more agile than the 905. The 2017 905 ran 2.4s and was also great.

Both a wheel & tyre swap will save considerable weight if 27.5 is an acceptable wheel size.

@kerley agreed nothing beats a proper light weight xc bike for xc i.e. most of the uk in reality. Not everyone wants to ride bike parks.

@oldfart I nearly bought one of those onza last year. Still a great bike and their point about the trails is very apt.

A few years ago the industry said 27.5 brought the trails alive or 29 for xc, then 27.5+ was the way to go, then 27.5+/29 swappable, then LLS geo into mainstream, now 29 with higher volume tyres for trail and 2.2/2.3 for xc but still 27.5/+ too.

29 geo has improved considerably over the last few years. I remember when 27.5s emerged they were notably more agile than the 29s especially as geo was evolving from the more traditional specs. A good 29 xc bike now is significantly better than its 26 counterparts 10+ years ago and 29s from 2010-2014ish.

Looking at the 905 v2 geo (I don’t know which version you have) it’s got fairly long chainstays, quite a slack headangle and a fairly long ish wheelbase.

If you wanted a livelier hardtail in 650b wheels I’d be looking at something with chainstays around 420-425mm, headangle nearer 66 ish degrees and smaller tyres.

Something like a Santa Cruz chameleon or maybe a Stanton Switchback frame can usually be bought frame only and most of your parts would probably swap across. That would leave quite a lot of budget for new wheels too - go to a smaller internal width than the 35mm internal you probably have now - say 25-30mm and run 650 normal tyres rather than plus. Funnily enough my last Vitus Sentier probably has the kid of geo you’d probably find fun - but they aren’t available frame only very often.

If you decide to go full suss then ‘down-country’ sounds like where you’d want to be. Lots of them are quite expensive though - YT Izzo at the slightly cheaper end - Transition Spur probably the best of the bunch there but well out of budget.

A mate is riding a Trek Top Fuel for everything - it’s probably a touch steeper in the head tube than the Spur but it’s taken a hell of a lot of abuse (jumps at Windhill etc) as well as being pretty light and efficient cross country.

It sounds like you avoid a full on xc bike as if you’re not racing that doesn’t actually suit a huge amount of people.

It's a great time to sell a bike as the 2nd hand prices are high, buying one will be limited to what's actually available in stock.

Lots of the Euro brands have xc geometry bikes as XCO is hugely popular over the channel, Orbea, Cube etc.

Could you try a 29er wheelset on the Whyte?

Ritchey P29?

Vitus have just launched a Scott Spark-a-like in the Rapide FS. Might be worth a look. Very good value.

My wife bought a Trek Top Fuel 9.8 last year. Within the first few rides I was having to put in a whole load of effort just to keep up with her.

She basically said it made her sprint everywhere - in a good way. She calls it her rocket.
Its a FS, but with a switch to lock everything out. So best of both worlds.

I had a go on it and bloody hell, she was right. But its also pretty dam capable of techy stuff for what is meant to be a XC race bike.

Carbon rims and fast tyres - its a rocket.

My fave bike for ages (sold as bought a size too small) was a 2018 Giant Anthem 29, alu one. Traditional xc geo, climbed like a whippet and yet strangely composed going down. Light too, for the price. Worth considering. It was perfect for mix of local riding, big days out. Orbea Oiz might be worth looking at too?

sync agreed about 29ers I've got a Kona Raijin from 2012 I think 68.5 HA but I've ridden that too death! Mostly road gravel XC etc am toying with putting Schwalbe Gs on it but last year I bought a pair of Spesh Butcher and Slaughter in their sale so that's what's going to have to go on it once the High Rollers have worn out. It's a very efficient mile muncher bit it will never have the soul of my Cove Hummer.

To the OP, what you are describing does sound like you need something lighter and more nimble.

I personally don't really get on with steel bikes as they feel good but are too heavy.

I find my (new 29") carbon On One Whippet to be almost the perfect sounding bike for what you describe.

To me it feels like a newer version of the old lightweight hardtails I remember from the 90s, but with added strength and speed. Mine just goes where it is told and if I could propel it fast enough, I'm sure it would be a great speed machine.

One of the best things about it though, is the feel. It seems neutral and involving.

For context I also have a carbon Chameleon with 27.5+ and a Ripmo FS. They are totally different and great but the Whippet gives the best rider feedback and feel.

As others have mentioned, try new tyres first, something lighter than what you currently own.
I have a surly karate monkey, hardly a lightweight race bike, but I’ve ridden it with balloon tyres (big apples), normal xc (nobby nic/rock razor f/r), 29x3 surly knards, and a couple of other schwalbe tyres whose names escape me.
Different tyres can change the character of a bike by a lot, if your bike feels lifeless this is the place to start.

Cheers all,

I think part of it stems from being quite out of date. I stopped mountain biking in 2012 when my 456 summer season was stolen (loved that bike), was skint so bought a cheap road bike off a mate for £50 and have basically been on the road since, plus a bit of gravel, until buying the Whyte in 2019.So I'm used to the speed/acceleration of road bikes, and last memories of MTB were just as slack geometry started.

The 901/905 has been the best balanced UK trail/hardcore orientated hardtail for a few years now especially for the price. I ride a v2 currently.

Yeah, I know I'm being unfair, the Whyte is a great bike, especially on the rowdy downhills. It's just not the 'right bike' for me. I'm considerably less hardcore than it requires!

I’m guessing g from the fact that you didnt get on with your Whyte that you didnt have a test?

Spot on - I'd hired a Orange Crush and a Whyte T130 a few times and really enjoyed it, so assumed that since everyone said the 905 was better than the crush, that I'd like that too plus it had a better spec for the cash. Lesson Learned WRT Demos, not that it's easy at the moment.

Back pain when riding can be caused by a number of factors. This may be the geometry and/or fit. It may also be related to a medical condition / fitness so depending on severity and triggers a different bike may not resolve it.

I think, because of the geometry, I just can't find a comfortable position, or I may just have the wrong size. I ride on the road a lot pain free, with a 520mm reach albeit with 40cm bars. I find the 905 to be not stretched out enough to mirror that (not that it ever would) but too long to 'sit up' so I'm always in an in-between.

I'll check out the more mainstream suggestions when demo's allowed. I'd always tried to stay with the more niche British brands, but if they don't work for me then no point! the Orbea looks good, plus I've been curious about a scalpel since I get on well with cannonades usually!

Cheers

I know you've talked yourself into "it's the geo" but it is still worth trying faster tyres. I recently built a new long-low-slack trail bike with 2.5/2.4 F/R tyre combo and really wasn't enjoying it, peddling was like stirring porridge. I changed it back to my old 2.3/2.25 F/R tyre combo and flying again, couldn't go back to my old bike now.

Yep,never understood the reasoning on fitting really heavy tyres on bikes.It ruins the dynamism and in my experience doesn't help with grip.A 2.8 on the rear of an e-bike for climbing sounds good but having to spin heavy wheels and tyres especially on energy sapping terrain sounds like torture.

Just looking at some xc tyres now. Might try a set of forekasters!

@bjhedley

Questions I should have asked.

How tall are you and what frame size have you got?

What pedals are you using?

Have you set up the seat position fore/aft and handlebar angle? I find whyte's bars pretty good but always swap to renthal carbon 800mm.

Adjusting how far the bar angles forward/backwards makes a big difference to comfort on these due to the geo.

If you want to save weight then the WTB i35 rims aren't the lightest but not that bad. Hubs are pretty light though. A new wheelset without spending silly money can save 200-300g. Lighter weight xc orientated tyres work fine on the i35 rims. Just going tubless and a 2.25-2.3 xc/trail tyre on the i35s could save you 500g+ per wheel.

If you're not Tubless already that saves 200g+ off the wheelset with the 2.8s.

The PG1230 eagle cassette that weighs 650g can go. You can order the xd driver freehub body from whyte and with a GX cassette shave 200g off. Could go 520% range too if you swap to a gx or x01 rear derailleur as well.

The Descendant crankset isn't too heavy (700g) and is DUB on the 2019 iirc but either the truvative descendent carbon crank (from r2 bike) or sram gx carbon (same crank) saves c200g

The revelation forks are pretty good and light.

Without massive outlay you can save 2lbs-3lbs off the bike, the majority on rolling weight.

What exact tyres do you have on it now? Also, bar width and stem length?

On the back pain, may I make a free of / low cost suggestion. Note that it may or may not work.

Stand straight and slowly lower into a squat mimicking a riding position.

As your hands reach forward, your bum goes back to maintain balance - yes? And the further forward your hands the further back your bum. It doesn’t feel too uncomfortable though.

Now try and do the same with your hands but without your bum going as far back - you can probably do it but it will put tension through your back.

As LLS happened, seat angles got steeper - which is a good thing for climbing.

But it means your hands need to be further back - and with short stems they are.

However for some people that balance won’t be quiet right and you will be tensing your core muscles to compensate.

Try moving the saddle back a bit, or a shorter stem or narrower bars - all will have a similar effect on the core tension. Or if that makes it worse, try the reverse. You need to find your balance.

Now having done that you may find yourself to far forward or back on the bike. Feel free to adjust the position, but as you move your hands forward move your bum back to keep the body balanced.

Please note I am an engineer not a physio.

I have recently built a trail hard tail for XC duties. What I’ve learnt is boring stuff is still boring. But mainly that There’s hardly any disadvantages running a light weight FS over hard tail if cost is no issue. I can’t justify 2 high end FS bikes or I’d have two, and no hard tail. In fact the xc fs that I was using was probably more efficient as it was more comfortable.

“ As LLS happened, seat angles got steeper – which is a good thing for climbing.

But it means your hands need to be further back – and with short stems they are.”

Actually I’d say it’s more that your hands need to be higher with a long reach bike. And if you do that then you don’t compromise climbing because of the steep seat angle and long wheelbase (and even more so if the chainstays are long).

I have a carbon Chameleon with 29” wheels which gets used for the type of riding you’re describing - absolutely love it. I’ve got it set up to swap between two sets of wheels - one lighter wheelset with 2.1 xc tyres and another set with 2.4 Contis for gnarlier riding. Most of the time it lives with the 2.1s on.

@sync I’m 6ft 3 and on an XL, run a 80cm BB to saddle top saddle height. Also running either UNite flats in winter, or candy’s for longer rides. Ran horizons for a bit but don’t like the platform.

Bar/Stem set up is stock, was tempted to go down to 760bars with potentially a bit more rise. Definitely going to switch tyres to something faster rolling and lighter. Already running tubeless. Some of the groupset has been switched out - went from GX to SLX since the GX rear mech was a nightmare and kept imploding. Likewise chain switched too.

Theres loads I can do to make it lighter - was looking at the Hunt trail wheelset for example, plus carbon bars etc. With the 2nd hand market as it is though, I was holding off and trying to demo some things since If I can find it a good home and get a decent chink of change for it, then I won’t feel I’ve lost out as much as throwing $$ at it to try and get it to work for me.

@igm interesting - I’d actually done the opposite and gone more fwd to get the saddle closer to the BB and bring the weight more over the front of the bike. Might try going up and back for a bit too.

@bjhedley if you were on GX group (11 speed?) that means yours is a 2018 not 2019 v1.

They did overhaul the geo with the v1 iirc but not so drastically it would feel like a totally different bike.

Sounds like a selling yours and going for a different more xc orientated bike may be the right solution.

If you are thinking narrower bars and have your saddle forwards, I suspect the XL is too large. A riding co of mine is same height as you and enjoys my medium, he would buy a large if going for one but XL would deffo be uncomfortable.

Its the blue V1 2019 model with the 12 speed - thought it was gx but turns out it was NX, my bad, not a Sram mtb level aficionado as always been on shimano before - its this one anyway https://www.beelinebicycles.co.uk/8001/products/whyte-905-v1-2019-mens-hardtail-mountain-bike--blue.aspx

The narrower bars isn’t overly surprising . Despite my height, I don’t have overly broad shoulders - I use 40cm road bars when every off the peg bike my size specs 44cm. But yes, I think you’re right, probably should have gone large.

Seriously, I'll take it off your hands.

@bjhedley that makes sense.

The XL v1/v2/v3 are huge. At 6ft I found a large too big by some margin.

With the 2.8s on I can only imagine it feels like riding a tank.

What you wrote is the exact reason I sold my long shot Solaris.

I bought a short chainstay shorter reach 68 degree head angle Vassago. It's great fun EVERYwhere. The Solaris was only fun on higher speed downs for me, everywhere else it was a real grind.

@anono - it's in the classifieds now, feel free!

@andykirk - cheers, I'll check that out! the Optimus Ti looks rather nice!

Thanks  but wrong size, Typical, try and help someone.....

I think 95% of your problems are the 2.8” tyres on it. You’re 6’3” tall - even if it’s a fairly big XL you’re still an XL height rider!

I wouldn’t sell it without checking you can actually buy the replacement you want - supply vs demand is a bit of a problem right now.

Sounds like you want a lightweight 29er but I’m not sure what - my hardtail is basically like the 905 but with 2.3” tyres and I like that kind of thing.

I’m shorter than you, but with very wide shoulders, i run 720mm on both my mtbs.
Wider bars will also pull you forward, your arms splay out more to reach.
I use 44cm road bars too.
Anyway, good luck with your plans.