When does "All-mountain" become "Enduro"?

Obviously it depends which pair of wheels you intend to use when....

If the new wheels are for the pedally days then get trail, if they are for the uplift days then get enduro.

If you are going to stop using the old wheels completely then ...

No idea

Edit. Just read this bit

I’m currently running Hope Fortus 30 wheels. They’re bomb-proof, but heavy.

The answer is clearly Trail. Use the Fortus for uplift days and use the new wheels for if you ever start doing long pedally days.

The problem is that when I go away I tend to do a mix of bike park and pedally days, both in this country and abroad. I need to travel light so the idea of taking more than one set of wheels away with me isn't really practical.

The current set would either be kept as spares, or possibly sold.

I think I'd get away with "all-mountain", but another possibility I've considered is "all-mountain" front combined with "enduro" rear.

If I'm going to spend the money though, I'd like as good an outcome as possible in terms of improving pedalling performance.

When you start breaking things. Some people can get away with much lighter wheel sets

Stick with Forrus, they're decent

Some people can get away with much lighter wheel sets

This. I seem to be very light on kit naturally - since the turn of the millenium I think I've only ever trashed one rim and that was on a night ride. Same on and off road - I just seem to manage my weight front to back, anticipate hits and use my joints to manage impact much more than some of my friends that just seem to ride through/over stuff. As a consequence, even though I'm not very light, I can use lighter kit and more forgiving suspension setup without being a wollowy mess and breaking stuff at will.

Stick with Forrus, they’re decent

And this. You ride a bike for fun, not to win races. Therefore use the forrus for hard hitting stuff or as an only wheelset if you going away and if you really feel you want to spend money buy something lighter at the trail end of the market for make long trail days a bit less fatiguing. Big benefit of this approach is the trail wheels can be lighter faster rubber too to double the benefit.

need to travel light so the idea of taking more than one set of wheels away with me isn’t really practical.

That is kinda tricky.

Cards on table... I'm a pedally kinda guy so would defo get some lighter trail wheels. I struggle to see how you'd get any lighter but still suitable for uplift days. But not my area of interest so happy to be contradicted.

I have three options.

Standard DTSwiss 1650s that came with the bike. Rear insert. Used for most rides.

DTSwiss carbons which I use for long days or days when I think I'll struggle to keep up with others. Running Rekons so probably 1.3kg lighter than the above option. TBH they're a bit shit on techie stuff but fine for Peak and easy lakes.

DTSwiss E1900 rear wheel with Rimpact for Alps and van uplift. Bought it when my 1650s broke spokes due to casing too many jumps.

Gotta admit that I take two sets most times I go away, but rarely swap them. Most trips it's pretty clear what the priority is. And to be honest the priority is nearly always rocky tech so nearly always use the 1650s. Think the carbons have only been used once this year (3000m peak ride)

Personally, ignore what things are called. Think about what you want/need; rim width, a rough idea of the weight you'd like you end up with that sort of thing. You can always beef up lighter wheels/tyres with inserts.

I was in the same place as you this time last year… but I’m about 5kg heavier.

i relaced the hubs onto DT Swiss Ex511 rear and XM481 front.

The weight difference is 325g … but it feels like more.

Personally, ignore what things are called. Think about what you want/need; rim width, a rough idea of the weight you’d like you end up with that sort of thing. You can always beef up lighter wheels/tyres with inserts.

Yeah, should have mentioned, running CushCore pro front and rear too.

I agree with everything @thegeneralist said, and I do similar regarding wheels (multiple sets to swap depending on riding type).

If it really must be only one wheel set, then if I were you I would stick with enduro / fortus.

Only other option not mentioned is to swap tyres rather than wheels (can have a massive impact on grip/rolling resistance/weight), but that's a load of faff so you probably won't do it.

Personally I'd go with the stronger wheels every time.  It's on the pedally rides in the middle of nowhere that I'd least want a buckled wheel.

Buckled wheel halfway down Morzine Bike Park = short walk to numerous well-stocked bike shops.

Buckled wheel on long, pedally, Alpine ride, out of season = long miserable push back to the van followed by spending the next day driving to the only open bike shop in the Haute-Savoie.

Only other option not mentioned is to swap tyres rather than wheels (can have a massive impact on grip/rolling resistance/weight), but that’s a load of faff so you probably won’t do it.

Yeah. No. 😉

It’s on the pedally rides in the middle of nowhere that I’d least want a buckled wheel.

I don't know about you but I ride far more carefully in the middle of nowhere than at a trail centre for a load of reasons.

I don’t know about you but I ride far more carefully in the middle of nowhere than at a trail centre for a load of reasons.

This.

And also I'd tend to do around 3 times the height drop on an uplift day so much more likely to prang something anyway

Get a set of light wheels and only take the heavy set away with you

Good plan. Then the light wheels will last for bloody ages....
🙂

I wouldn't worry too much about what products are marketed as. 38mm stanchion forks are the next big thing but a lot of pro enduro riders have stuck with the smaller fork (Lyrik and 36 instead of Zeb and 38). You can get carried away with marketing and thinking you need a shock with a external reservoir, 4 pot brakes and tyre inserts. Run what works for you, if something is lacking then think about upgrading but if it's working then I wouldn't worry.

in answer to your title question, All mountain becomes Enduro when you stop at the top of the descent for some unreasonable amount of time waiting to go down again. Otherwise its all the same.

Wheels/rims wise, XM481 will serve almost any riding so just get those.

Even an EX511 is 130g lighter than a Fortus 30 and will be virtually indestructable this side of a WC DH course.

I'm running a XM481 front and EX471 (so 25mm int) rear on my big bike. That would take 360g out of a pair of Fortus 30s, which is a huge amount. I've yet to ding either, these last 2 years, despite riding in the Peak and not being gentle with it.

(In comparison a pair of Hunt Trailwides <<spits>> lasted me 2 rides before serious damage.)

Fortus 30 are chunky rims.

I’d get your pro4’s relaced onto a dt swiss EX511 rear / XM481 front. The 481 is pretty strong, but I’m 29er I find my rear 481 doesn’t stay quite as straight as it did in 27.5” size. Nothing major, just occasionally gets a small wobble after a big hit. The front one is perfect at all times though.

In hindsight I’d make the rear an ex511 and keep the front an xm481. Hub wise if you are going to buy a full new set of wheels then dt swiss 350s are decent - are are Hope Pro4. The new Pro5 hasn’t been out long so hard to know what the longevity will be like on them but they have more POE on the rear and are slightly heavier than the Pro4 I believe.

Cheaper hubs that are still ok are Bitex. I’m running a front one and a mate is running a rear one and they just work.

@dc1988

thinking you need a shock with a external reservoir, 4 pot brakes and tyre inserts

Funny you should mention that, but all three of those are things that I’ve realised I need over the years, after previously thinking that they were superfluous.

I’m currently running Hope Fortus 30 wheels. They’re bomb-proof, but heavy.

720g per rim, assuming not the latest single cavity version.

Yeah, should have mentioned, running CushCore pro front and rear too.

260g each, needs some scrutiny IMO

For example:

Replace rear with EX511 (590g)
Replace front with XM481 (550g)

Replace front insert with Rimpact Original (100g)
Replace rear insert with Rimpact Pro (160g)

Total 1400g rather than 1960g.

@bikesandboots I think that if I replaced the inserts with Rimpacts then I’d probably need to go back to a dual ply casing for sidewall protection, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

When the CushCore need replacing, I’ll probably go to lighter ones than I’ve got currently though.

Stick with Fortus, they’re decent

I think have two types of fortus, a single cavity and a multi cavity, the single being a bit lighter.  So maybe sticking to Hope but opting for the single will save a bit of weight.

Fortus 30 are chunky rims.

I’d get your pro4’s relaced onto a dt swiss EX511 rear / XM481 front.

That’s what I said I did above and saved a few hundred grams.

The DTs certainly aren’t bomb proof, both have a bit of a wobble now. But there not worse than the F 30s.

I had the hope fortus on my Hightower- as you say strong but heavy- wanted strong and light so went for Roval traverse carbon - super tough on enduro racing and bike park with threadlocked spokes and very agile on climbs - haven’t looked back