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Obviously everyone's got their own interpretation of how gnar and how far we can go currently but wondering what the collective STW view is on when we might be able to trapse over to Wales?
4-6 weeks. I think they may open a week or 2 earlier for ebikes.
My issue wouldn't be the riding as such, but the van full of sweaty blokes.
I'm debating Swinley at weekend and will do Summit skills area when open.
Still no parking at Swinley right?
That's correct.
My issue wouldn’t be the riding as such, but the van full of sweaty blokes.
I was talking to the guy at British Cycling who looks after all the DH / 4X / BMX racing stuff the other day. He was saying that in terms of the actual riding, DH was one of the easier sports to get going in a socially distant manner but the issue of course was uplift, being crammed into a sweaty van.
Might be further concerns around medical cover if every crash needs to be treated with full PPE. Can imagine that burning through a lot of PPE...
I think that's a concern for a lot of places, the considerable extra ambulance / hospital admissions that will need to be accounted for. I think I've seen the ambulance called to Leeds Urban Bike Park every single time I've been there (in fact I had to call it once as I was unlucky enough to be first on scene of a bad crash!)
Does feel like "Open without uplift" might be an interim measure
I think wales could be quite some time yet as the NHS infrastructure isn’t great.
Plus I doubt there will be uplift allowed for the foreseeable. Lots of sweaty sniffly people in a van. No thanks
As above, Open without uplift should be good a lot sooner.
NHS infrastructure isn’t great
Is Wales struggling more than England?
They’re really suffering in the Valleys.
Combination of elderly population, poverty and boneheaded conspiracy theories.
hamsterley is already open for push up.
uplift is going to be a while I reckon, Adrenalin up at inners were running buses half full for a week or two before lock down which might help a little but still a long way from social distancing.
Trail centres sooner than BPW, Antur etc is my guess, or opening with no uplift.
As some one who has a booking for late June Im not optimistic. I think the issue will be how do you social distance in the back of the uplift vehicle? I dont really understand why the trail centres are still closed but thats another debate. I can understand that the trailhead facilities are closed in an attempt to stop people congregating there but the actual trails? Part of me thinks its more they dont want you there when they cant sell you stuff but that might be getting a bit tin foil hat time
Given how busy Peak District car parking areas where yesterday and the one at Lady Cannings, I’d struggle to differentiate between the risk there and opening a car park at a trail centre. I’d say the same about the cafe facilities; lots of cafes round here back open on a takeaway only basis.
Would Black Mountain be the best uplift for socially distancing as it doesn’t involve a mini bus? Have to in less people in the trailer but maybe 4 / 5 people at a time might be possible?
Part of me thinks its more they dont want you there when they cant sell you stuff but that might be getting a bit tin foil hat time
Interestingly, Kielder has just re-opened including the shop, but no hire.
I'm not sure Wales is any better or worse than England, certainly in terms of NHS infrastructure we've got vast amounts of headroom in the form of a "up to" 3000 bed Covid field hospital that's never had more than 20 patients in it.
We're also down to single-figure deaths per day.
Anyway, Trail Centres, we're expecting an announcement on Thursday that will allow us to travel for exercise / leisure which will be the green light for them to start planning to reopen (I don't know why they need to wait to plan, but there you go). The centres may or may not reopen in a limited capacity (Afan was doing take-away food via a window at the start of this).
Uplifts though, not a chance I reckon. I just can't see how it could be done.
I can understand that the trailhead facilities are closed in an attempt to stop people congregating there but the actual trails? Part of me thinks its more they dont want you there when they cant sell you stuff but that might be getting a bit tin foil hat time
That's a bit baffling to me too. It was inevitable they would re-open at some point, but most places seemed to decide they wouldn't do any planning for reopening until they were told they could reopen.
I don't think it's a commercial thing though, the bike shop at the TC at FOD has reopened, but not the TC. Same story in Cwmcarn too, I don't think they ever closed, even though it's pretty hard to get to them.
I dont really understand why the trail centres are still closed but thats another debate.
Don't know about the English ones but the Welsh Rangers have cited issues with trail inspection and maintenance due to them being deployed in other areas due to staff self-isolating or being ill. They've also done the ground work on that it will take 2-3 weeks to inspect and clean up (strim back brambles, clear fallen trees) the main centres once the announcement is made so it'll be a while before the Welsh centres open up. Plus this:
They’re really suffering in the Valleys.
Combination of elderly population, poverty and boneheaded conspiracy theories.
I don't have direct knowledge of exactly how it's going but my dad is still waiting for his next round of chemo which has been drafted in for next week but at the hospital at Ystrad Mynach, the only hospital in South and Mid Wales to not be earmarked to deal with Covid19 patients. His care team are currently deployed all over dealing with Covid19 patients rather than being based at Neville Hall (Abergavenny), the Royal Gwent (Newport) or Prince Charles (Merthyr), all of which would be the closest A&E's to Black Mountain, BPW and Cwmcarn. While there may not be many new cases coming through they are still dealing with older cases as it's taking a long time to get people well enough to go back home.
I personally wouldn't plan anything uplift-wise here this summer unfortunately.
sept at the earliest will be my guess. Wales is still closed completely unlike england.
I don’t have direct knowledge of exactly how it’s going but my dad is still waiting for his next round of chemo which has been drafted in for next week but at the hospital at Ystrad Mynach, the only hospital in South and Mid Wales to not be earmarked to deal with Covid19 patients. His care team are currently deployed all over dealing with Covid19 patients rather than being based at Neville Hall (Abergavenny), the Royal Gwent (Newport) or Prince Charles (Merthyr), all of which would be the closest A&E’s to Black Mountain, BPW and Cwmcarn. While there may not be many new cases coming through they are still dealing with older cases as it’s taking a long time to get people well enough to go back home.
Do take this as anything more than it is because I haven't a clue what's going on on a larger scale, but my Wife who was redeployed due to Covid is returning to normal duties from 01/06 as are her colleagues.
ITU in UHW (The Heath in Cardiff) only has 2 COVID patients now and one of the COVID wards has been earmarked to be turned back into it's original function soon.
Would Black Mountain be the best uplift for socially distancing as it doesn’t involve a mini bus? Have to in less people in the trailer but maybe 4 / 5 people at a time might be possible?
I was thinking this, the places like this with open backed uplift vehicles have to be better than the vans. Maybe some of the bigger places could get some different uplift vehicles temporarily.
The very high probability for ambulances to attend is an issue, i've seen people badly injured on the blues at BPW. For that reason they can't open yet IMO
Will BPW want to re-open if they are limited to pedal-up only?
Would that be economically viable, I mean?
The very high probability for ambulances to attend is an issue, i’ve seen people badly injured on the blues at BPW. For that reason they can’t open yet IMO
A&E admissions are down about 75% at the moment. Hospitals are covid-aside, really, really quiet at the moment.
Based on 2018 data Cyclists represent less than 1% of A&E admissions (17k serious accidents v 24.8m A&E admissions).
I can't find data on how many of the 17k admissions were Mountain Bikers compared to all the others, but it's probably a pretty small figure.
If there's a jump in A&E admissions due to cycling it'll be the millions of lock-down riders on shiny new bikes or dusty old death traps they've wheeled out of the back of the shed.
Based on 2018 data Cyclists represent less than 1% of A&E admissions (17k serious accidents v 24.8m A&E admissions).
Have you got a link to that?
Will BPW want to re-open if they are limited to pedal-up only?
Would that be economically viable, I mean?
I'd guess so, the drivers would stay on Furlough (they may be on 0 hour contracts, I've heard drivers moaning about not-great terms) anyway. I think their maintenance crew have been working throughout.
You might wonder if many people would pay £10 or whatever it is now to spend a day pushing / riding up. but people will queue for 2 hours for a manky KFC at the moment.
Based on 2018 data Cyclists represent less than 1% of A&E admissions (17k serious accidents v 24.8m A&E admissions).
Have you got a link to that?
So rather than taking people up in vans, they could think outside the box a little and use one vehicle to drag the bikes up and another to drag up the Covid ridden riders in an open seated trailer, wearing face masks of course.
Uplifts though, not a chance I reckon. I just can’t see how it could be done.
E-bike tow. Two people and easy to keep 2m apart
Presumably when people are talking about trail centers being closed thats a Scottish/Welsh thing as time outside is (still? Or just lifted, or about to be lifted?) supposed to be limited under their rules?
Swinley is open but the car park isn't. The council were ticketing cars parked in the 9 Mile Ride laybys last week but not over the weekend. Ive never known it so quiet at the weekend! There was a steady stream of riders mostly in 2s and 3s but not the usual nose to tail you get on the blue.
There were as many families out on the fire roads as MTBs!
So rather than taking people up in vans, they could think outside the box a little and use one vehicle to drag the bikes up and another to drag up the Covid ridden riders in an open seated trailer, wearing face masks of course.
Insurance, costs (two lots of fuel, two drivers), health & safety legislation...
I mean, yes it can be done, I've seen some right old cattle trucks being used in uplift but whether or not bike parks will be able to afford it, justify or even want to do it is another matter altogether!
Insurance, costs (two lots of fuel, two drivers), health & safety legislation…
Fair point. OK - Van with the bikes in the back towing an open seated trailer, used by many attractions around the world.
H&S and insurance isn't an issue as they already exist, got round the 2 drivers issue, sorted. Stop being so negative.
One of these jobbies!
OK, maybe a with truck, not a van.
You might wonder if many people would pay £10 or whatever it is now to spend a day pushing / riding up. but people will queue for 2 hours for a manky KFC at the moment.
You are right, I think there would be much more demand than normal for the pedal-up if it was that or nothing.
That could be their business model for the rest of the year.
Lots of sweaty sniffly people in a van. No thanks
Pedantic, I know, but sniffling (and a runny nose in general) isn't actually an officially recognised symptom of C-19 and while running a temperature certainly might be, I find most people get a bit warm and sweaty after riding their bikes! TBH, it's the symptomless ones that you probably need to watch out for...
(I've been getting glared at for sniffling in the supermarket. I've gotten bored of telling people that it's currently hay fever season and I've been sniffling through May, June and July every year since I was a kid.)
The WHO are getting closer and closer towards ruling out the possibility of a second wave so maybe the game will change. Who knows? WHO! That’s who.
They’ve also done the ground work on that it will take 2-3 weeks to inspect and clean up (strim back brambles, clear fallen trees) the main centres once the announcement is made so it’ll be a while before the Welsh centres open up.
I would expect any planning to be done and the ground work to reopening well advanced. Its not hard to have a plan ready without knowing the exact dates. Working either individually or in small groups on the side of a welsh hillside is probably quite a safe place to work compared to a supermarket or factory.
I would expect any planning to be done and the ground work to reopening well advanced. Its not hard to have a plan ready without knowing the exact dates. Working either individually or in small groups on the side of a welsh hillside is probably quite a safe place to work compared to a supermarket or factory.
In the best spring weather we've EVER HAD.
But I wouldn't assume too much forward planning, there may even be an element of deliberate delaying to appease certain parties.
Trail crew back on site at BPW.
chrismac - it's more a case of lack of workforce I think. There's only one small team who cover a large area now after they reshuffled everything back in November so it's how long it takes them to physically get round all the trails. They normally inspect every trail once a fortnight so it'll take that long to do this time round.
I can understand that the trailhead facilities are closed in an attempt to stop people congregating there but the actual trails? Part of me thinks its more they dont want you there when they cant sell you stuff but that might be getting a bit tin foil hat time
Maybe the fact that the Forestry Commission (or whatever they are called this week) are legally responsible for the trails might have something to do with it? If they can't work, then they can't sign off a trail as safe?
Not been to BPW - how soul destroying is the pedal-up option for a hypothetical day there?
Not been to BPW – how soul destroying is the pedal-up option for a hypothetical day there?
It’s not that bad, if you’re reasonably fit.
We usually average 8 full pedal ups if we decide to go that way & not uplift. Have done 10, which was heavy going (nearly 3000m of climbing).
You can easily do ‘half laps’ of the top too, as the second half of the climb is a lot shallower gradient.
Anyone heard anything from Danny Hart Descend? I see they're open for pedal up but no chat on uplift?
You can pedal up at BPW, but it will compromise your runs back down unless you’re super fit, especially if you want to do one of the longer black runs.
JP
Just a comment on the open trailer issue. Many sailing clubs are choosing not to operate rescue cover at the moment. This is mostly to do with the very rare instances where a rescue boat crew comes into close contact with a casualty and needs to bring them aboard but it's also down to challenges with how you crew such a boat (usually 2 up).
The slipstream effect when moving means that if one of you has covid (unlikely) then if you cough it effectively gets dispersed far further than 2m due to motion/airflow. If you have single household crews that's fine but the risk of casualty transmission is still enough that PPE needs to be considered.
If someone at the front of a moving trailer or boat coughs you basically drag a trailer load of customers through the droplet cloud. Not great!
You may be prepared to take the risk but as a business with paying customers they have to get it to fit a risk assessment.
Not been to BPW – how soul destroying is the pedal-up option for a hypothetical day there?
It's not bad, the official climb 'Beast of Burden' is a bit long and winding, but it's not hard to just follow the fire road, it's steep in parts. I tend to push/ride it depending on the gradient at the time and just chat away with my mates.
Once you learn the lay of the land it's sometimes better to break it up a bit, for example. It's not really worth going below the uplift road on the North end, the trails tend to either be short and deposit you by the centre which is a bit of a plod back or longer and take you down to where the vans would be usually, which is another long plod.
You can session the top of Terry's Belly, Hot Steppa and Popty Ping easily enough, it's only a 10/15 min ride back up, or head over to the very top and ride down to the tunnel / crossing near the uplift road and push/ride back up from there.
It's a different day out to an uplift day, more of a TC type of day out, I think if you go with the mindset of getting as many full runs as possible it's end up being a bit of a chore/slog.
Saying that, it's a 30 min drive for me, I'm happy to go for a morning or even a few hours.
If someone at the front of a moving trailer or boat coughs you basically drag a trailer load of customers through the droplet cloud. Not great!
So, make face coverings compulsory for the uplift.
417 is still shut but does look like they are building a new trail was above there today.
Cheers for the replies - doesn't seem that onerous. I'll pencil that in the diary for.... some point in the future!
I think BPW might be beginning the process of re-opening as I got a "Good news, not long until your visit to BikePark Wales!" email with a covid disclaimer
I didn't !!!
What makes you so important 😛
I worry for BPW - unlike most of the other uplift places they are booked weeks or months in advance for weekends plus the missed 4 bank holidays, and 3 weeks of school holidays.
Plus the 3 weekends of weather closures in feburary means lots of people have a credit note.
Processing those through the system (will re-bookings get priority?) could lead to months before new money starts coming in, from when they open up the uplift.
If it makes a difference I've got a credit note spot...
Yeah, i've got a note as well, know loads who do, the weather was a killer in Jan/Feb.
If three things happen I can see BPW being able to run, albeit it in a very restricted way.
1. social distancing reduced from 2m to 1m
2. Welsh 5 mile travel distance being revoked
3. Hotels reopening
You could get 4 (maybe 5) riders in a van (wearing masks), perhaps with a couple of windows removed for better ventilation
Running 6 vans thats 24 people plus 6 drivers, maybe 2 support staff and 2 kitchen staff
The question is how much the riders are prepared to pay. Admittedly it’s a minority but a few like me will have not been furloughed, had all holidays for the next year cancelled and had a fairly tough time at work (NHS in my case). There’s nowhere quite like BPW so I’d pay a fair bit tbh, probably >£100 for a day’s uplift, or maybe £150ish for a weekend pass. Maybe some of that money could be held as a bond for a visit in 2021 (eg come for free in 2021)
That’s £2400 a day, which should cover costs. Probably only sustainable at weekends.
Food would have to be preordered at registration, and the kitchen split into two serving times with 12 people each slot (12-12.45 and 12.45-1.30)
Admittedly crap for most of the locals (recognising Merthyr is not an affluent area) but if it keeps them limping on a few months it could be an option.....
NOt sure i'd play at £100 a pop.... but that's mostly because for me it's not £100 it's £200 as if i went there without taking my boy i'd be strung up and shot.
NOt sure i’d play at £100 a pop…. but that’s mostly because for me it’s not £100 it’s £200 as if i went there without taking my boy i’d be strung up and shot.
Same here, riding with your boy is great but costs ££££££!!
I think they'll just restrict the number of credit note bookings vs new bookings per day to get the money in. It wouldnt make any business sense to have a day getting no "new" money in!
Id be happy to go to BPW and just pedal up TBH, think the pedal pass is £11