[Closed] When BIG things close pass

😯

Had an artic go past me close (but not quite that close) in the winds yesterday. Bit scary yeah.

Chased him for about 2 miles, he never actually broke away from me! But I had to turn off as had my son's school parents' evening and wanted to be there!

The determination of people to get by as quick as possible even though they are not going much faster than you boils my piss, just an attitude that they must get in front of a bike asap. How much quicker is a tractor really going to be going hauling that trailer downhill... Scary.

@federalski

The determination of people to get by as quick as possible

I am interpreting this as "as soon as possible".

If they got past (and I mean fully past, trailer and all) nice and quick, that would be great. The problem is, long vehicles tend to be slow and don't complete the pass before needing to pull across because of oncoming. Which is what I think happened to @DezB here. It happens to me a lot.

Also, with cars in 30mph (or even more, 20mph) zones - they want to get past, they don't want to speed, result they creep past and end up squeezing you.

jesus that's awful. get in that grass verge where you belong. He probably thought that white line was a bike lane

Dunno about that greyspoke, I've had HGV's overtake where the cab has come incredibly close on narrow roads, by the time the trailer is past I've done an instinctive emergency stop into the verge!

Usually I'm quite considerate on busy but narrow roads and will pull over if I hear a bus/HGV behind me rather than make them sit there (or invite a shitty pass) but in that particular case it must have been doing the speed limit (it was a narrow road off a big roundabout so it had a run up) and was on me before I heard it!

For some reason I am thinking about the "flat pass" in rugby. A vaguely similar misconception around relative motion.

Aye, Greyspoke. As soon as possible would have worked better that what I wrote.

Have you reported the bugger?

[i]Have you reported the bugger?[/i]

Not had time, was only last night, just grabbed a screenshot. I think the reg is HX65 AWB (different reg on the trailer).
What happened was, he started to overtake, just as I was picking up speed on the downslope - there was clearly an oncoming car, so his overtake was far too late for the speed. He started moving over well before the trailer was past me so I had to brake and move to the grass verge (or get pushed there).
Oncoming car in this pic (visible at rear of trailer), also pushed over to the verge
[img] [/img]

Incidents like this are one of the reasons why I sold my road bike a few years ago. 😆

Its the same in the car though. I have to drive on the stretch of the A59 between Harrogate and Skipton for work (a stretch of road with one of the highest fatality rates per journey in the country) and experience ridiculously dangerous overtaking, close passes and tailgating every single day. There's some absolute lunatics on our roads, whether you are travelling by bike or by car. Stay safe out there people.

f me that looks close and it looks like the car wasn't far off having to go onto the verge in your last screenshot too

howsyourdad1 - Member
He probably thought that white line was a bike lane

😆

Definitely report it. Unfortunately the response will depend on the constabulary and the attitude of the person you report it to.

A work colleague has had good success via the non emergency number / email - two convictions so far! One close pass on a blind bend, one oncoming car overtaking towards him.

I might just ask the farmer I worked for if he knows who it is. And let all his sheep out. Or something 😉

good golly!

I'm always left fuming when I see idiots trying to overtake cyclists with &!ck
maneuvers which leave them with no room for error.

I'm not in any way defending the farmer here, but once you saw what was happening, did you slow immediately?

No, I headbutted the ****ing trailer and called it a poof. Did you read my "what happened was..." post?

😀

Had a driver with a caravan do the same to me last year, fortunately I had a bus stop to swerve into.

I caught up with the old duffer and tore a strip off him for a couple of minutes (to the approval of the driver behind). No camera so I left it at that.

Let us know what response you get from the feds.

Glad you're OK.

I had an artic 'overtake' me heading downhill towards Bromyard on the A44 leaving me about a 12" survival zone. The most fun part was that as he passed the artic driver hadn't accounted for the pedestrian central refuge up ahead. Deafened and blinded by emergency air-brakes and plumes of tyre-smoke, I was shaken enough. This was the last straw riding A roads. I'm done with it.

Just saw a sainsburys tanker take someone's door off and not stop.
Got his number and trying to report it.
101 don't want to answer and it takes 20 minutes to fill in the form online.
The car driver must have had a heart attack. He wasn't there when I went back. Just a very mangled Golf.

[quote=chakaping ]I caught up with the old duffer and tore a strip off him for a couple of minutes (to the approval of the driver behind).

Hmm, the twice I've done that to somebody towing a caravan, the first time the old duffer said I was swerving all over the road so he had to pass me close (I pulled out a bit to avoid drains, if I was doing as he claimed he should give me even more room). The second claimed there was nothing wrong (he didn't pull out at all, if I hadn't swerved left as the car passed I'd have been hit by the caravan) then punishment passed me, then when I caught up again got out of the car to confront me, clearly wanting to settle it "like a man" - wife in the car then complained that I was upsetting her kids (no dear, that's your husband firstly driving like an idiot, and then being a total dick, that's why your kids are upset). Reported both, no action in either case (though I didn't have camera footage, but in the latter case I reported him for threatening me).

[quote=zippykona ]101 don't want to answer and it takes 20 minutes to fill in the form online.

at least with my local force it appears 101 is a waste of time - reported somebody last week on that, and when I called back this week was told that he was on the list to be watched out for by patrols but that was it. Not impressed that they didn't tell me I needed to fill in the online form as well for them to take more action - though more impressed that now I've done that I've just heard back and they have issued the registered keeper with a NIP (not cycling - was walking kids to school when I saw somebody crossing double whites to overtake past the school gates, have a second parent as a witness as well).

Finally got through and hopefully justice will prevail.

aracer - In my incident the couple went from being defiant to genuinely sorry when I made them realise they could have killed me, at the time I felt that was sufficient but in hindsight I probably should have reported it anyway.

Do we know if such reports can trigger an assessment of a person's fitness to drive? Eyesight etc.

DezB, foolishly I once rode the A27 from the roundabout just West of Bedhampton to Havant.
**** that! Never again. Artics passing at 60 mph. EEEkk.

The Havant bypass? Nuts! There is actually some decent cycle pathage to avoid the A27 now. Not sure if it goes past Havant that way though.

Definitely report. I know someone who very nearly lost a leg (and was left disabled) after being hit by an overtaking tractor.

DezB - Member

The Havant bypass? Nuts! There is actually some decent cycle pathage to avoid the A27 now. Not sure if it goes past Havant that way though.

Havant Bypass

I was going to say the safest way to navigate that would be around or underneath it. But apparently not
[img] [/img]

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2017-05-21/driver-arrested-after-crashed-van-left-hanging-over-underpass/

Had a few incidents with large farm tractor trailer units on bike and in my van. As large as a articulated lorry but less checks on the driving.

It absolutely boils my piss and the arsehole in question would almost certainly get away with not much more than a slapped wrist, even if he had killed you.

For the most part, this country hates cyclists.

Found the Hants Police page. They just don't wanna know, do they.. either don't give a shit, or poorly resourced, or probably both -
http://archive.hampshire.police.uk/internet/advice-and-information/road-safety/collisions-and-poor-driving/poor-driving.html

Be good if the police had some kind of training course for these incidents. Like the speed awareness course.

I know that's fantasy land though.

Glad you are OK, and hope the police do take some kind of action.

DezB - Member
No, I headbutted the **** trailer and called it a poof. Did you read my "what happened was..." post?

Yes, but it doesn't answer my question.

What it says is that at the point he started his overtake (or was alongside), YOU were accelerating. He started to overtake based on your relative speed a few seconds before coming along side you (remember, he's higher up and can see further) and as you hit the downslope, you accelerated and thus decreased the relative speeds between you, thus making it harder for him to clear you in the space available. Having been in this situation before with trucks and tractors (they don't anticipate that you'll speed up so dramatically when moving from either a flat or especially a slight rise to a downhill), they can't easily back out of the move once started (again, they think they'll not be able to slow enough to pull in behind you and so will crush you) so the best thing is to back off and brake slightly so that he clears you quicker.

I'll fully admit that it's terrifying, but would also say that whilst it ended up dangerous, I'd doubt it was done maliciously or carelessly and that it could have been mitigated somewhat by backing off.

[quote=Daffy ]I'd doubt it was done ... carelessly

By definition it was. I'm sure the HC says something about anticipating when overtaking and as normalised as it might be for a driver not to think ahead that's not exactly an excuse. When going for an overtake you should be [b]sure[/b] that won't put you into conflict with other road users.

I agree, that tractor should not have continued the overtake maneuver once the oncoming traffic was identified ahead, it's not that hard dab of brake and pull back in. It's a tractor probably can only do 20mph.

No offence Daffy, but you're talking shit. He shouldn't have started the overtaking move. Full stop. No excuses.
[i]I [/i]could see the car coming the other way. I was surprised that the actual TRACTOR had started to try to overtake me at that point (you can hear me grumble in the video, (well I can!)), THEN the bloody trailer comes into view and I'm shocked and hit the brakes and move over. At which point the swearing starts.
I've tweeted to Hants police road unit, so will see if I get a reply on there.

I had a jersey with a missing sleeve thanks to a pass like that.

The driver all but shit himself when he realised and spent about half an hour apologising and asking what he could do to make it right. This was in france, so a whole different set of social rules.

i.e. cyclists aren't scum.

I suspect he'd have called the police himself if he'd had access to a phone.

Daffy - Rule 168?

Basically, don't accelerate if being overtaken, slow down to facilitate the overtake.

The balance here is in determining if the overtake started despite the oncoming traffic. I guess Debz was there, the rest of us can only speculate.

No offence Daffy, but you're talking shit. He shouldn't have started the overtaking move. Full stop. No excuses.

please don't misunderstand, I agree completely, but you're completely missing the point of what I'm saying.

Yes - the overtake shouldn't have happened, but once you're in the middle of it (i.e. as soon as you're aware of the overtake and the oncoming car, backing off or breaking would've made it MUCH safer for YOU. After all, it's your life in danger and you do have a say in how this plays out. Simply being in the right won't keep you alive when Muppets do stupid things, but getting out of their way can certainly help.

I'm stating this from personal experience of numerous similar events - I.E.
Truck overtaking on a downhill lefthander meaning the trailer is going to take a narrower line to the cab. Backing out is the only option to getting squeezed, so if you see it starting to happen, you've gotta react from a self-preservation point of view rather than keeping the hammer down to prove that an overtake wasn't really necessary.

I'm genuinely glad you're okay and am not looking for a fight, but based on what you've posted and upon how I used to react on the bike when commuting, I think we might (at one time) have been of similar mindsets when being pointlessly overtaken by something/someone.

Far better to abort an overtake than try and push it through. Thats how people end up dead.

I've tweeted to Hants police road unit, so will see if I get a reply on there.

Are you taking bets? 🙂

[i]backing off or breaking would've made it MUCH safer for YOU.[/i]

It couldn't have been any safer for me than I made it. I'm here, typing this and not squashed under a massive trailer. It's that binary.

Maybe you're not, but there always seems to be someone who comes out with "oh could've done this better than you" on these threads. And yep, there are definitely times when I've taken the risky option. But not this one.

[i]Are you taking bets?[/i]
A mysterious 'like' from "Bez" 😉

So I can come back in a week or so and check my bet is safe 😉

[quote=Daffy ]Yes - the overtake shouldn't have happened, but once you're in the middle of it (i.e. as soon as you're aware of the overtake and the oncoming car, backing off or breaking would've made it MUCH safer for YOU.

The thing is, if I understand correctly that's what he did do. Meanwhile the comment of yours I previously highlighted (along with a couple of other little bits of your previous post) do seem to be excusing the driver to some extent. According to Debz the situation was apparent before the overtaking move started, though the driver should have backed off when he realised as I presume he did at some point. If as suggested by some it was difficult for him to back off once he'd started, then that's another reason he should never have started overtaking.

It wasn't just a mistake, nor a momentary lapse, it was a conscious decision to take a chance on the overtake. Part of the whole "must overtake cyclists" thing, which seems to be the justification the two caravan towers I mentioned up there - they couldn't give me enough space because staying behind wasn't an option. I'd say those attitudes boil my piss, but that's trivialising it. It does boil my piss that the justice system in this country doesn't seem to consider such things to be dangerous driving because it's not far below the standard of an average driver.

[i]According to Debz[/i]

Where? 👿

But yeah, spot on. " it was a conscious decision to take a chance on the overtake."
Also, I would've been gone in less than a minute - turning left (if I hadn't chased him). I'm going the back way home tonight. Much more pleasant.

[quote=DezB ]Where?

😆 I assumed that was your new online dating alter ego

Part of the whole "must overtake cyclists" thing, which seems to be the justification the two caravan towers I mentioned up there - they couldn't give me enough space because staying behind wasn't an option

My perception is that as soon as a driver sees a cyclist there's an assumption that they are going slow and so must be passed at the earliest opportunity, no matter what. All further evaluation disappears, particularly planning 2-3 moves ahead, there is only one goal and that's to get in front.

Worst case scenario, we all know - that's when you get overtakes like this, left hooks, and so on. But the number of times someone has 'dodgy' overtaken me (which i measure by whether it gets a 'Jeez!' response, vs actually shit myself) only to then pull into a road or a drive 100 yards later, just proves to me like Pavlov's dog - see a cyclist, get past asap.

It's a tractor probably can only do 20mph.

It's not 1983 any more. A modern tractor is good for 40mph+, even towing.

That one wasn't - as I said, I followed for a couple of miles, even with a tailwind I'm certainly not gonna be a 40mph rider! The (silenced) video will hopefully go up tonight. Expect more judgement!

Apologies, I must have miss-read.

My perception is that as soon as a driver sees a cyclist [b]or frankly any vehicle driving at close to a legal or safe speed
for the road conditions [/b]there's an assumption that they are going slow and so must be passed at the earliest opportunity, no matter what. All further evaluation disappears, particularly planning 2-3 moves ahead, there is only one goal and that's to get in front.

Ftfy!

Lost count of the number of times cars and vans have attempted to push past me in the car at inappropriate places at highly illegal speeds after tailgating, swerving from side to side and/or gesticulating this week. I'm pretty good (if you'll excuse the terminology) at sitting bang on the limit where conditions permit and I'm not deliberately obstructive. The number of people who have 28 Days Later style rage from not going exactly as fast as they like is quite alarming.

Although I will concede that people are EVEN worse if a bike is involved.

DezB

I sympathise. I've been in that spot with an HGV before. The difference there was he could have used a whole empty lane of a dual carriageway to pass but still nearly flattened me with the trailer. That was over five years ago and i still cringe to think of what might have been.

Almost an identical no room to overtake with oncoming car scenario had me with a fluttering heart. Bez did his best to work out how close it was to my hands:

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/calculating-a-passing-distance-using-camera-footage/ ]How close?[/url]

he reckoned 30-34cm.

actual video is in [url= http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/review-cycliq-fly-6-rear-light-and-camera/ ]this review[/url]

I didn't report it to the police, but I did contact the van hire company who were very contrite.

Buuuump!
Bloody tractor again on the way home!
So this roadie goes past me and we start the downhill, which does a complete 90deg bend in about 100metres. So I'm probably close to 30mph, as I'm going to take the left turn, which is actually straight on, if that makes sense. So Mr Farmer thinks this is a wise place to overtake. I have to almost go off the road, not knowing how long his trailer is. Check the last pic, how did he not clip that car? Don't think it was the same tractor, but need to find the old video
[img] [/img]

Shiiiiiiite! That car must have properly shat themselves!

MUST PASS CYCLIST. You can hear it in people's heads when they perform overtakes like that. They aren't looking any further down the road than your back wheel, chewing the steering wheel with impatience. I honestly think part of your driving lessons should involve being on a bike whilst vehicles are driven closely to you.

Good luck reporting it. I've reported to GMP a close pass, drivers mirror actually glanced me. Filled out the initial form, got an automated response email then NOTHING. I even had video evidence.

They are just too stretched at the moment I think.

I'm very glad that I spent a good few years commuting by bike before even getting my driving licence. It is hilarious how up in arms some drivers get when they get stuck behind a cyclist because in the grand scheme of things they're adding less than 30 seconds to their journey but they get so unbelievably impatient. I am totally happy to trundle along behind a bike until there's ample room and time to overtake. Sometimes it's good to slow down every now and then but unfortunately it seems that there is a large portion of drivers who think they're entitled to the whole road 100% of the time and nothing is allowed to get in their way.

Also, I commute by bike in Bristol which is madness for traffic, and I constantly get drivers overtaking me in 20mph zones while I'm doing 20, only for me to inevitably catch up with them again at the next set of lights. Absolutely pointless.

Had an interesting one at the weekend that required a change of shorts, i was going over the local common which to keep the wild ponies on has a cattle grid at either end, as i am going over the cattle grid which is less than two cars wide, i was overtaken by a four ton truck, so that his wing mirror literally went over my head, thankfully i was on the drops otherwise i think he would actually have hit the back of my head.

Haulage company owner just thought it was quite funny until i said i'd report to Police and i had footage, then he was full of apologies and promises to reprimand driver

That stretch of road in photos is down a pretty steep hill and the length of straight before the 90deg right hander is not particularly long, given the fact that even a cyclist will have built up a fair amount of speed. Really ought to be double lines TBH. Incredibly stupid overtake. I dont think I've ever seen an overtake down there, let alone a tractor with huge trailer!
Glad everyone was fine. Everyone in such a rush these days.

There has been so much shit driving this week. This was the tip of the iceberg. But when you hear that rumble coming up next to you and think, no, he'll wait... then .. it's ****ing crazy.
And there was me doing the long route home for the pleasure of it. Arf.

don't look too bad to me.

you should try commuting in sunny leeds daily.
things like that are a regular daily happening. hardly worth raising the inner Mr Hyde for.

So ton enjoys getting practically shoved off the road by massive tractors with trailers. I don't. Cool.

DezB, no mate I don't.

but it is just part of commuting round here.

sorry for replying.

sunny

Certainly seems to have bought them out this week. Last night I had someone pull up to my right at a junction, blocking the oncoming lane so they could overtake me in the turn onto the "main" road. Stupid thing to do anyway , even more so as I was turning right and they'd pulled up to allow them to turn left across me. (and I dare say had they not decided to try overtaking me before the junction there was plenty of room to my left at the junction) Morons.

As a counter point to dez (and that is a stupid, dangerous, overtake) I usually find the HGVs and tractors on my commute are, invariably, the ones I can rely on to treat me like a real person who happens to be on a bike rather than an inconvenience.

don’t look too bad to me.

This is a forum full of people who are determined to ride bikes and who will put up psychological defences to desensitise themselves from danger so that they can ride bikes in relative mental comfort.

That doesn't change the fact that passes like the above are fragile things: heavily reliant on the assumption that everyone is being hyper-attentive and that everything favourable will happen and nothing detrimental will. What if the driver above had lacked the ability to precisely place themselves where they are just missed by the trailer but also avoid mounting the verge and losing control? It's a fine balance, and by the looks of it they much have had a few inches to spare, if that.

Just this week I've had multiple passes which would look "not too bad" on a camera but which again teeter on the brink of disaster: for instance one person overtaking me leaving plenty of space, but leaving much, much less to the person coming the other way on a bicycle (who, had they wobbled or hit a pothole—having been left no room to swerve—would have been the next Denisa Perinova); or another overtaking me leaving space, but on a blind bend on a singletrack road, where the result of any oncoming traffic would have been a proper mess for at least one of us.

If it's "a daily happening" then surely that makes it all the more worth doing something about, rather than being a reason to criticise people for wanting to do something about it? Because for every person who shrugs it off there'll be another who's choosing never to cycle; and for every time someone behind the wheel rolls the dice on a risky pass there's someone else on the road who's going to get screwed over the time it comes up snake eyes.

Well said Bez.
The only thing the photo really shows clearly is how close the tractor was to the car. It doesn't convey the feeling of having that massive bastard thing next to you, shaking the road, you thinking, has he got room? Unless you're a ****ing hard northerner of course. Then you can no doubt do to the trailer what I said sarcastically in this thread previously. Obvs.

There's nothing worse than a completely unnecessary close pass. I've been overtaken in a 30 (while I was doing 40...) One time some old couple overtook me passing through a quaint village, then the very second they pulled in front, slammed on the brakes to stop, forcing me to brake hard - they'd reached their destination... I'm sure everyone has examples but it's really not an acceptable way to drive and I think most of it just comes down to a complete lack of thought, which is exactly why we need to voice concerns and increase awareness.

I have come to the conclusion that the sight of my bum in lycra is so fantastic that it blinds drivers to oncoming traffic, blind corners, brows of hills and many other hazards whilst they overtake me.

Unless you’re a **** hard northerner of course

no need Dez. I will stay away from your post from now. no worries

FWIW I'd intended to append "and I include myself" to the first paragraph of my post, but I see I forgot.

I think when you're someone who likes riding bikes for the sake of it and don't want to stop doing so, it takes a while to realise that you don't have to normalise other people's crappy behaviour, and to realise that one of the reasons most people you know don't cycle is that they don't normalise it (at least from the point of view of being subjected to it; clearly some of them are happy to do so when it comes to subjecting others to it).

no need Dez. I will stay away from your post from now. no worries

Whatever, it's what you implied in your first post.

That Bez article on measuring distance is superb. How did he/you become such an expert on that?

I didn't, I've just done a lot of maths in my time. (And 3D graphics, image editing, etc)

Someone published it, though, which makes it look a bit experty 🙂

It's not so much an elbow-brushing close pass as just an utterly shit pass, and if the car driver hadn't been clued up and made room, the chances of him wiping out either you or the car are high.

Round here, I keep seeing tractors and quads being driven on quiet lanes by implausibly young-looking lads...

It's not just cyclists that are shown contempt by such poor drivers.

My commute home (by car) takes in some small country roads, and one of them has a tall bank on the left, and a thick hedge on the right - both of them pretty much adjacent to the edge of the road. At one point, the road turns to the left, meaning that you can't see oncoming traffic. A pedestrian was on the opposite side of the road, going in the same direction as me and, as any sensible person would, I slowed down to allow for the fact that there wasn't really room for two cars and a pedestrian to pass.
Predictably, three cars were coming the other way, and the first two had moved into the middle of the road to go round the pedestrian. Bloody good job - for everybody - that I slowed down, or it would have been very nasty. The one surprising thing was that the third car (which actually stopped) was an Audi - nice to see somebody breaking stereotypes.

Then, just this morning, I was waiting to turn right, out of a t-junction - something that can sometimes take a minute or so - and the bloke behind me was rooting his horn and gesticulating impatiently. Quite how he thought that would miraculously cause a gap in the traffic to appear, I don't know. He was, unsurprisingly, driving a white van, so the stereotype reinforcing/destroying balance was restored.

People really are getting to be very inconsiderate.