[Closed] Wheelbuilding. From scratch.

I like the horseshoe type ones (Park and others look similar). But importantly, attached to a ribbon round your neck.

Spokey all the way for me. No ribbon.

But importantly, attached to a ribbon round your neck.

And not for when actually building the wheels. Wearing a spoke key necklace to the pub and on rides is a sign to all of your riding buddies that you've finally achieved Bike Mechanic Guru status.

Mailed you require the drawings Tim. Thanks in advance

Re the drawings, bloody auto correct

I have built a few Stans rims Arch & Flow MK3 with DT Swiss & went 274 on rear & 274 & 276 on front with Sapim race spokes with 12mm brass nipples

Anybody use spoke washers?

I’ve heard them being recommended for ebike wheel builds where the motors in the hub, but it was for pretty crazy ebike applications not the norm.

I’m a spokey kinda guy.

I wouldn’t wear it round my neck as you’d end up with a lot of new ‘friends’ wanting wheels trued.
(I don’t mind tbh as It’s a relaxing thing to do)

So I've just found out why ACI spokes are cheap. Laced up a wheel and now I have black hands.

Think I'll stick with DT in future.

I have all the bits I need.

And a Spokey.

Soooo, I've ordered some anyways, but opinion seems hugely split:

Boiled linseed oil on threads - Y/N?

dab of grease around each spoke hole? Y/N?

My thinking is currently Y/Y.

I've never had any problems with N/N. If I'm feeling frisky I stick some teflon lube on the threads but these days I tend not to even bother with that.

I put a tiny dab of oil on the end of the spoke threads and on the nipple hole. Ordinary engine oil.

Cotton bud soaked in engine oil and then twizzle in each spoke hole, 3-4mm of oil in a flat container/lid and set all the spoke threads into it and then tap then on a rag/roll.

I'm the same as SV. I just use normal 'DRY' bike lube. Keeps the wheel build nice and quiet too, without it the spokes make a terrible din when you start getting the tension on and I'd wake up my sleeping children!

Right, more advice please!

I've built up a couple of wheels now. Got them both within about half a mm of lateral, and less than a mm of vertical. Was happy with that.

Then I started plucking the spokes.... The tension is all over the place.

What's the best thing to do? Do I chase even tension, or trueness?

They were initially at an even tension, but the rim was a long way off true. So I did multiple passes with the spoke key, loosening and tightening opposing spokes. Now it's all over the shop tension wise. I don't see how I can get it true, but even tension? What have I done wrong?

Roger Musson tips on Vimeo -

ps Red Spokey key as featured in the video above is great

Sub; Did you use a nipple driver to start?

Yup, I used a diy spoke driver as suggested in a few places (ground down Phillips head)

Red Spokey was the only other tool 🙂

Initial tension was up to when the thread disappeared into the nipple (done by feeling the first thread with a fingernail)I then worked round giving equal turns to all nipples until I got good tension, then started the true.

Apologies if it was mentioned, but what rims are you using?

IME ending up with a true wheel but significantly inconsistent tension is more likely if you have a really stiff rim (or a wonky one). So if you're building with something beefy then it's understandable; if you're using some light road rims then less so. (Light rims are better to learn with IMO, for this reason.) Either way, if you suspect it's way off then there's no harm in detensioning and starting again from that point.

FWIW I use the same fingernail technique (although I prefer a normal stubby screwdriver to a nipple driver) and find it works really well. YMMV I guess 😉

I'm using a planet x special! WTB ST i25. DT Comp spokes, Halo nipples, DT350s.

Tbh I'm tempted just to ride them, see how they settle, then give them a tweak or 5...

Did you check the rims were round (same erd across all spoke holes)?

Did you check the rims were flat (place on flat surface)?

Did you check all spokes/nipples were the same length?

Winding all on the same amount, then evenly increasing tension and truing normally works ok, however differences in spoke/nipple length and thickness of rim bed can cause issues, stiff rims can end up true with uneven tension.

If you can justify it building with a tension meter is nice

Boiled linseed oil on threads – Y/N?

dab of grease around each spoke hole? Y/N?

I used some (unused!) engine oil that I had sat in the garage instead of anything fancy. A bit on an earbud to pre-lube the rim holes and a dip of the threads into the pot before installing the spokes. Don't need a lot, but a bit goes a long way.

A spoke driver bit (or, in fact, a few) would be my big beginner's tip. I bought a load of cheap flat-bladed screwdriver bits from the hardware shop and then chopped them down in the garage to make some pointy-tipped flat bladed bits. These are (IMHO) vital for getting the wheel to an even pre-tension setup before you start properly tightening any of the spokes and I found it shaved ages off the final true as the wheel was fundamentally correct before I even started. You can buy them, but they're easy to make if you have a dremel or grindstone.

I also use the park spoke tool and it seems ok. Like the idea of a ribbon - I can't count how many times I had to retrieve it from under the workbench!

If you can justify it building with a tension meter is nice

I seem to recall that unless your spending a lot of money, cheap tensioners are pretty rubbish. That said, I own one and they are great for checking relative tension - it's reassuring to know that you've got even tension on all spokes and I've found that this goes a long way towards making a stable wheel, even if you can't be 100% sure of the absolute tension of each spoke other than by an educated estimate. Would love to hear what other people use here...

I've tucked a pair of pacenti DL31 in my shed for "future use"

at £10 for 26 and £20 for "current" sizes (planet x), I reckon they're a barg

also, i'm after a pointer on good value hubs with easy changes of axle standards (boost isn't a major concern for me, but 9mm/15mm is)

superstar switch seems like the obvious candidate, what else? used hope pro2?

OP - have you stress relieved the spokes?

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

Edit - I use the squeeze 4 spokes method.

I seem to recall that unless your spending a lot of money, cheap tensioners are pretty rubbish. That said, I own one and they are great for checking relative tension – it’s reassuring to know that you’ve got even tension on all spokes and I’ve found that this goes a long way towards making a stable wheel, even if you can’t be 100% sure of the absolute tension of each spoke other than by an educated estimate. Would love to hear what other people use here…

I use a DT Tensio and a Park TM-1. DT Tensio is great, but expensive, I find the Park slow/frustrating to use but it has references for a good range of spokes.

Two main reasons I use a tension meter, even spoke tension and max spoke tension. A lot of modern lightweight rims have low max spoke tensions.

If a cheap spoke tension meter is consistent and gives repeatable results it will be very useful for ensuring spoke tension is even when building. I would check some known spokes/tensions on built wheels for a guide on its readings at specific tensions if you want to build to the max spoke tension or make sure you dont exceed it.

Yes, it is surprising how much tension can vary on a wheel that has had the nipples wound down the same amount.

Its really depends on needs/budget/time etc, I have built wheels with minimal tools which were "fine", but can now do ones which are "better"

Would love to hear what other people use here…

Just the feel of squeezing spoke pairs. It's not scientific but it's never failed me yet; YMMV. First time I built a wheel I went round squeezing all the existing wheels I had and used that as a sort of baseline that got refined over time.

These are (IMHO) vital for getting the wheel to an even pre-tension setup

Pretty sure they can't be vital, as I seem to work better without them. Whatever works works, though.

Bumping this thread as winter's coming and I fancy my first go at wheel-building (seems like a decent way to spend some long winter evenings). Is the info in this classic page still relevant today?

Yup, that Guide is what I use every time I build a wheel. Built 3 pairs in the last 12-18 months and all good so far.

Sheldon Brown's how to is pretty much the best guide out there IMO.
The Musson book is good, but contains almost too much info. SB is concise and to the point.

My dad taught me in my teens, and when I needed a refresher a few years ago, having not built a wheel for 10+ years, it was my go to text.

Get your key spokes right, and it all follows logically from there 👍

I use the Musson book. Built enough now though that it's getting to be more of a prop than really required

I have built low teens number of wheels using the Sheldon Brown instructions.

I'll never be fast because I only build for me when I need them, but none of my wheels have ever failed.

I bought an X-tools tension meter in a CRC sale, which has been really useful for normalising spoke tensions throughout the wheel, and this has definitely made my wheels better - really nicely stable and more resistant to minor out of true incidences.

If you're starting new, I'd recommend building in two phases - building, then tensioning. It takes a while to get key spokes right and everything attached so I find it best to walk away and come back to tension it another time. I tend to build mine over two evenings this way, otherwise I get impatient and rush the trying, which is not a good idea!

Another vote for Sheldon page. Built first couple of wheels using it and after that nothing is required as it really isn't as complicated as a lot of people assume.

I've built a few sets of wheels now and they've all been fine, in fact I did a DH race on the first 'proper' set I built and didn't even die or anything 😀 I started on a 36 spoke BMX wheel, just took it apart and put it back together again then did the same thing on a 32 spoke MTB wheel, using the frame it was going in as a truing stand. It's a really nice thing to be able to do and it doesn't matter how long it takes you to build a wheel, you can just potter on with it for as long as you need to 🙂

Inserting spoke nipples into the rim is a PITA. One of the best tips that I'm aware of is to make something like this from an old spoke:

https://makezine.com/projects/build-bike-spokenipple-driver-old-spoke/