Wheel Lacing - 2nd Spoke

Dunno.

Sounds complicated.

Personally, I'd count two holes around the hub on the side you are working on (so you have 1 hole without a spoke in it).

Put spoke in same orientation as first one

Then count 4 holes around the rim (so you have 3 holes without a spoke in the ). That's where the spoke goes in the rim

That'll do you the first 8 spokes on a 32 spoke wheel.

Then work it out from there

Ali C's vids for my first wheel (re) build worked for me! The standing and bouncing my weight on the wheel was particularly... nervous fun!

Also just to add, his instructions for de-twisting the spokes, the way he rests the wheels against elbow and stomach and then tries to flex it with hands, worked well for tubeless setup with a bead that had mostly seated except for a particularly stubborn patch.

Ali C’s vids for my first wheel (re) build worked for me! The standing and bouncing my weight on the wheel was particularly… nervous fun!

Yep same, especially his updated new videos. Zero issues lacing or building.

Sheldon Brown's page on wheel building, and especially the diagrams on lacing (scroll down a bit), is wirth having a look at.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I watched the park tools wheel building video and successfully swapped a rear hub, great video, didn't use a jig, just my bike frame. I paused the video during the build and did the odd rewind.

I like the Sheldon page with the colour coded spokes, really helps because I've arsed it up a couple of times and had to re-lace. Worth the effort though! Love wheel building, one of the best aspects of buying a new bike is building some excessively spec'd wheels. It's not even like it's cheaper, just 'because'.

32 spoke build, I do it in sets of 8. all 8 on the same side first, then the next 8 then the next and the last.
innies and outies seem to get differing opinion depending on how far back you go on forums. (hence your question)

Starting driveside, for 3 cross, count 3 hub holes left of the hub logo, drop a spoke through from the outside to inside, attach nipple to hole left of valve hole. skip one hub hole, skip 3 rim holes, repeat. 9make sure youve orientated any offset rims correctly)
Your "second spoke" now becomes spoke #9. eyeball 1 hub hole left of starting spoke and put a spoke through from out to in (upwards per your question). fix spoke/nipple 1 hole away from the first one you fixed next to the valve hole. flip wheel over, and repeat as before by dropping spokes through.
Now the remaining sets on each side is easy(er) to deal with as you're going inside to outside with more room to work. Whether you choose to start front and rear wheels from drive/non-drive to get different lead spokes is up to you. as far as I can tell it doesn't really matter. Most of my factory built wheels are all the same regardless of front or rear
Some methods suggest doing the 2nd spoke as the parallel spoke opposite the valve hole..that just seems confusing.

Sounds complicated.

Personally, I’d count two holes around the hub on the side you are working on (so you have 1 hole without a spoke in it).

Put spoke in same orientation as first one

Then count 4 holes around the rim (so you have 3 holes without a spoke in the ). That’s where the spoke goes in the rim

That’ll do you the first 8 spokes on a 32 spoke wheel.

Then work it out from there

Agree both the systems in the op seem unnecessarily complicated. You can get the first 16 in no bother then one more spoke placed correctly locks it all in and the last 15 are pretty obvious too.

I mean have I had to unlace and start again? Yes! But are you a true wheel builder if you haven't?!

Thanks for the feedback so far, I haven't heard that I am going to die yet, so may have gotten away with it

This is a bit confusing but I think the question revolves around whether certain spokes should have the spoke heads sitting inboard or outboard of the hub flange. To that end in the real world it doesn't matter. There is an argument that if you have them one way (and I can't remember which....I think it's drive side trailing spokes with spoke heads inboard....) the chain doesn't get as trapped should it drop behind the cassette. But when big reputable companies can't agree which is the best way you can see that this is a moot point.
For the way I build (and as above, people lace differently), I have the trailing spokes heads out so no other reason than it's easier! With drive side trailing spokes heads in, when you lace the leading spokes, you have to twist the spokes around other spokes a bit more and can scratch the rim in doing so if you are not careful. But I lace trailing spokes first, so if you lace leading spokes first maybe this is also a non-issue!
There are soooooo many daft theories around wheel building, and hardly any are backed by scientific testing. Just build them to tension spec, seat the spokes and nipples properly so they don't lose tension over time, make sure that spoke tensions match as well as possible and you are good to go. Everything else are just argument creators 😀

The important thing to get right is to ensure the valve hole is not aligned with the logo.

That way everyone knows you built the wheel yourself.

Otherwise they will assume you just bought it from a shop.

Just to check - does a snowflake build work OK with discs ?

The important thing to get right is to ensure the valve hole is not aligned with the logo.

That way everyone knows you built the wheel yourself.

One of my wheels has the valve in the "narrow" gap between spokes 😳

CBA to fix it

I'd just follow Ali's instructions. I've had loads of wheels he's built and built quite a few of my own from his instructions and his are generally bombproof!

First spoke I insert to line us the hub logo with the valve hole, the second one is the next one around. Heads in/out as good as makes no difference IMO, but I expect if you Google it, you’ll find someone’s Master’s degree thesis of 20,000 words extolling one over the other.

As others say, the Clarkson video or what bearback says works, if 32 then do 8 at a time and alternate sides, that makes the key spoke thing a bit easier as well, reality is that the whole complicated process is all about making sure the valve has the bigger space to fit a pump, aligning with the logo is something i've never done, not to buck the trend, i just keep forgetting to do it 😂

Related to the hub label aligned with the valve holes, the wheels on my Whyte are built like that, but one hub has the label text printed pointing forward and the other pointing backwards. It annoys me far more than it should.🤣

I started out using the WheelPro method but subsequently use (and prefer) Schraner - it gets the 'twist' in early and then does each side in groups of 8 as suggested above.

The Sheldon Brown guide is what I taught myself. Been building my own wheels for a while now, I quite enjoy it an enjoyable way to have a beer with the tunes on.

First spoke I insert to line us the hub logo with the valve hole,

Yup, it matters:

Unfortunately, I've also done this once and it annoyed me no end:

One of my wheels has the valve in the “narrow” gap between spokes 😳

I'm not sure if this discussion is more about the order of building or about whether you end up with leading Vs trailing spokes inside Vs outside.

If the latter, I've found loads of different discussions on the subject but decided to follow the Shimano method. I'm just assuming they've put more engineering thought and analysis into it than anyone else.

There's a diagram floating around the internet but I can't post pictures on here!

If it's build order, I prefer to feed the head out spokes in first on both sides, then the head in spokes as it means you're not putting lots of bend on to clear the lowest cross on the opposite side.

Edit. The diagram is in this article

I’m not sure if this discussion is more about the order of building or about whether you end up with leading Vs trailing spokes inside Vs outside

I think the latter, but it's a constant learning curve. I didn't know that lining the valve hole up with the logo was a thing !

I came up with my own method (which no doubt is already in use) happy to share

This was my man for the wheelbuilding instruction. Excellent detail.
Got another one to build once the spokes arrive. Will be using his vids again.

I’ve built quite a lot of wheels now - probably at least 12 I reckon. Always used the sheldon brown instructions for lacing - never had a problem - you just have to be methodical.

I quite like putting some music on and grabbing a cider and sitting and plugging through all the lacing. Sometimes in one hit or sometimes Cher a couple of sessions depending where I’ve got the spare time.

Spoke tension meter speeds up the trying process I found but you don’t need one to get a decent strong wheel.

Sometimes in one hit or sometimes Cher

Your musical taste is quite a surprise 😀

Powerspoke is best.

I’ve built quite a lot of wheels now – probably at least 12 I reckon. Always used the sheldon brown instructions for lacing – never had a problem – you just have to be methodical.

I quite like putting some music on and grabbing a cider and sitting and plugging through all the lacing. Sometimes in one hit or sometimes Cher a couple of sessions depending where I’ve got the spare time.

Spoke tension meter speeds up the trying process I found but you don’t need one to get a decent strong wheel.

Ha, that's me too exactly. Well, apart from Cher. Spoke tension meter compensates for beer effect.

I think the latter, but it’s a constant learning curve. I didn’t know that lining the valve hole up with the logo was a thing !

Philistine. It's the only thing!